Even if BG2EE features were completely irrelevant , I would still consider that the original BG2 is an old game and it is not really compatible with new versions of Windows, and even you you manage to make it compatible, some of its mods aren't. EE versions exist to make the game 100% compatible and playable.
In terms of computer time, the engine is old. Since Infinity Engine games were a thing, Bioware's had Aurora engine (Neverwinter Nights), the Odyssey engine (KOTOR, Jade Empire), Unreal Engine 3 (Mass Effect trilogy), Eclipse engine (Dragon Age: Origins), Lycium (Dragon Age 2), and Frostbite 3 (Dragon Age: Inquisition).
I am not saying that Infinity is totally left in the dust, but gaming technology in general - not just Bioware's use of it - has advanced pretty far since Baldur's Gate's publication in 1998, and BG2 in 2000.
So I say the engine is old. I've also played both BG and BG2 a handful of times over the years since they came out. I still like the engine, I still like all of the games made using the engine, but I am not going to say that the past 16 years of computer game history didn't happen just to place IE on a pedestal.
Maybe you aren't aware that nearly everything in the new UI is moddable? Please take a look at Dee's thread here if you haven't. the-new-ui-system-how-to-use-it
Pecca has done some amazing things so far, allowing effective use of wider screens but keeping all the flavor. He has redone basically every character screen, really a whole theme package now for SoD. I really look forward to seeing the BG2 package once he finishes SoD.
The spell books are horizontal in Pecca's mod instead of vertical and it works much better. Oh, I just realized with Pecca's mod that he managed to get the mouse hover to change the spell in the description pane so I don't have to click it, just wave the mouse over the spell! Nice work.
You are obviously more than capable of making a completely new theme this same way. It is a shame we can't get your input there. I would love to have various style of character sheets to pick through. Not to mention different functionality completely.
Echoing GreenWarlock's point above, I understand your point on the resolution, but I think that battle was over many years ago. Most people just aren't going to play with that resolution now on any devices.
I guess it is all in your mindset. Do you write mods for yourself, or more for others? The base of non-EE users is shrinking, so your work is reaching less people, but if that is not your motivation then no worries.
Thanks for reading, please check the links above for just a couple minutes before writing off the whole thing.
Cahir, you make a lot of statements about dreams being crushed, but you forget that Vlad is a pretty reasonable and generous guy.
There's nothing stopping you from writing TP2 code to adjust the NeJ code to work for the EE games. If you did a good job, Vlad might even integrate your code in officially. The code to adjust for compatibility with the EE games is likely not that many lines. It's simply a pain to learn what needs to be changed, change it, and test it. With personal time and therefore modding time limited, it's quite understandable that Vlad doesn't want to make that plunge.
Again, there is nothing preventing you sir from taking that plunge. ^_^
Yeah, that's the point Bill, my inability to comprehend WeiDU code prevents me from doing that. Believe me, I've tried to master it, but failed miserably in the process. It's not that I'm lazy, I'm just not inclined to code things. I could try writing stuff, but coding is beyond me.
Initially, it was a disappointment because of all the additional bugs. Only after all the patches have the EE versions become well worth it. I'm surprised things like enemy AI and pathfinding haven't yet been improved. I'm glad they are still releasing patches as they are still needed.
"The graphics and fonts in this 16 year old game are absolutely horrendous! Garbage! 0/10"
I almost want to say that this was a troll post, but I'm not sure. I believe Beamdog has done great with these "remakes" (ports, really, with additional content) and they have made it possible for a whole new generation of gamers to play these games that never got the chance when they originally came out.
I believe a vanilla BG2 or BGtutu with SCS, fixpack, and good balance options all wrapped up in a shiny, bug-free package could have been released to critical acclaim. Then, creating a tool or in-game optimized Weidu system for quickly and easily managing all the other beloved mods would have been the icing. The mods out there are that good.
But Beamdog has not treated some of these mods (with which I have no affiliation) as holy as the original game. Many updates and patches break compatibility with the mods that make the game worth replaying over and over. (Some of these patches fixed and introduced new bugs that never existed).
This attitude of treating brilliant Baldur's Gate content as inconsequential leads me to think Beamdog was not driven to create the best possible game. From what I can tell, they were driven to do something no different from what many modders have done: create a mod for a game to show off their developer chops so they can get work creating new games. What's different here is that these guys actually grabbed the IP and then sold their mod for $20. It's all legal, but it's not kosher. I call it a cash grab.
(As an aside, SCS is brilliant, but it does noticeably unbalance the game for novices to the game's combat system).
@Vellin because mods are mods and BG games are licenced content under the supervision of WoTC, what do you not understand about that?
They didn't treat the mods as inconsequential at all, they actually hired modders from the community... who tried to keep everything as compatible as possible with the old mods while allowing easier modding of many aspects.
But Beamdog has not treated some of these mods (with which I have no affiliation) as holy as the original game.
You are naive if you think Beamdog should be concerned with mods. EVERY GAME breaks mods & 3rd party addons when a patch updates the game. Game devs cannot, should not, and will not be concerned with preserving the integrity of mods. That is the job of the mod creators.
And they haven't broken the ability to mod the game. That updates break mod compatibility is not new to the EEs or unusual at all, it's something every modder has to deal with when making mods.
What's different here is that these guys actually grabbed the IP and then sold their mod for $20. It's all legal, but it's not kosher. I call it a cash grab
Note that many of the people who work at Beamdog worked on the Baldur's Gate games at Bioware.
I mean if we're going to be all accusatory about how they supposedly "grabbed" the IP and "sold their mod" then we can at least have some historical accuracy.
As far as "cash grabs" go it seems to me that the best way to grab cash isn't to repackage an 18-year old game.
I believe the first post is a complaint toward 2.0 and not bg2ee itself, which is completely legitimate. However I'm afraid beamdog is long past this.
This is part of the problem IMO.
I have been happily playing the EE versions for the last year. I'm not technical minded at all but even for me, it was clear that this forum and posts were about the game I was playing, I understand it's version 1.3. (I wouldn't even know that if it weren't for posts here, why would I, not interested).
Now I'm looking at posts about "EE" games and seeing screenshots, but they are not the game I am playing.
I'd like to play SOD but why on earth, somebody please explain why, I would want to have any change made to the games I have been playing for the last year very happily simply to play an expansion?
This is actually one hundred percent my case aswell. I went with Steam's 1.3 revert and never looked back, shamefully.
I remain hopeful v2.5 or 3 or something in the future will be bugfree and compatible with the product I have expected and paid for. There's no way I'm going back to vanilla's horrid loading times.
This is actually one hundred percent my case aswell. I went with Steam's 1.3 revert and never looked back, shamefully.
I remain hopeful v2.5 or 3 or something in the future will be bugfree and compatible with the product I have expected and paid for. There's no way I'm going back to vanilla's horrid loading times.
Thankyou, I was beginning to think it was only me with the problem of having this forum becoming less understandable because I'm finding it hard to decide which game people are playing.
As far as I can work out, there have been some drastic changes to the UI, so why is this latest version of the game still being called "EE"?
It's not as if the EE versions are that old. And for people using the excuse that those of us finding it hard to adapt (or not wanting to adapt at all) to be called "luddites" or equivalent, FFS, the game is 20 years old anyway.
So at the moment, no download for me, no money for Beamdog, though I would still like to support them. They just need to understand their customer base a bit better.
Personally I find the new UI to be a huge improvement. The character sheets are a work in progress and need better classification, but the layout is much better than scrolling through a disjointed list, hunting for whatever section you actually need. So much easier to compare characters too. The map is just awesome. The inventory screen seems to be about the same, but it fills it's role just fine (the better colour selections are great though, as is switching between two handed weapons and shields/duals). I find spells much easier to find in my book too. I do prefer the BGEE colour scheme over the black SoD one, but that's not a point against 2.1 as such.
Tastes will vary of course, but I don't really understand why people are so against it. Will be good when modders start putting out whatever people want to use though.
Tastes will vary of course, but I don't really understand why people are so against it. Will be good when modders start putting out whatever people want to use though.
Because it's different. There's always folks who get very vocal about things that are different. They tend to have no logical reasons as to why they dislike it (usually proven when their points are easily knocked down), but they dislike change on principle, even if the change is an improvement.
I haven't insulted anybody for liking the changes to the UI, but you see fit to disparage my opinion that I am happy with the game without those changes.
It isn't being "vocal" to mention that with this new version, it's now confusing for people who haven't upgraded to follow some things on this forum because the same name/title is being used for both.
Just over a year ago I bought the EE's, they cost about £40 and am quite willing to say it was among the best money I have ever spent on entertainment. It was quite clear when people refer to "EE" as opposed to those refering to "original", but now it's which EE, the one I play or the new download.
Why is it so outrageous to want to carry on playing these games I bought, in the format I bought them, with the UI I enjoy, but also would like to spend money on any expansion to the story? And it is important to understand the difference between "story/saga" and UI.
This is what I fail to understand, why an expansion to the BG saga, the story, the filling in the gap of "what happened next" between BG and BG2, has been linked to all the other changes.
Tastes will vary of course, but I don't really understand why people are so against it. Will be good when modders start putting out whatever people want to use though.
Because it's different. There's always folks who get very vocal about things that are different. They tend to have no logical reasons as to why they dislike it (usually proven when their points are easily knocked down), but they dislike change on principle, even if the change is an improvement.
Not trolling at all. I have low tolerance for people who complain about things that are better. The new UI allows for so many great and wonderful new things. People rebelling against that idea, because...for some reason, they liked the old badly laid out (but on-par with other games of the time) UI...that's ridiculous. What Beamdog did with the UI was move it from 2000 to 2016, metaphorically and technically.
Comments
I am not saying that Infinity is totally left in the dust, but gaming technology in general - not just Bioware's use of it - has advanced pretty far since Baldur's Gate's publication in 1998, and BG2 in 2000.
So I say the engine is old. I've also played both BG and BG2 a handful of times over the years since they came out. I still like the engine, I still like all of the games made using the engine, but I am not going to say that the past 16 years of computer game history didn't happen just to place IE on a pedestal.
Maybe you aren't aware that nearly everything in the new UI is moddable? Please take a look at Dee's thread here if you haven't. the-new-ui-system-how-to-use-it
Pecca has done some amazing things so far, allowing effective use of wider screens but keeping all the flavor. He has redone basically every character screen, really a whole theme package now for SoD. I really look forward to seeing the BG2 package once he finishes SoD.
The spell books are horizontal in Pecca's mod instead of vertical and it works much better. Oh, I just realized with Pecca's mod that he managed to get the mouse hover to change the spell in the description pane so I don't have to click it, just wave the mouse over the spell! Nice work.
You are obviously more than capable of making a completely new theme this same way. It is a shame we can't get your input there. I would love to have various style of character sheets to pick through. Not to mention different functionality completely.
Echoing GreenWarlock's point above, I understand your point on the resolution, but I think that battle was over many years ago. Most people just aren't going to play with that resolution now on any devices.
I guess it is all in your mindset. Do you write mods for yourself, or more for others? The base of non-EE users is shrinking, so your work is reaching less people, but if that is not your motivation then no worries.
Thanks for reading, please check the links above for just a couple minutes before writing off the whole thing.
This is just a friendly reminder for everyone to read the site rules.
I almost want to say that this was a troll post, but I'm not sure. I believe Beamdog has done great with these "remakes" (ports, really, with additional content) and they have made it possible for a whole new generation of gamers to play these games that never got the chance when they originally came out.
But Beamdog has not treated some of these mods (with which I have no affiliation) as holy as the original game. Many updates and patches break compatibility with the mods that make the game worth replaying over and over. (Some of these patches fixed and introduced new bugs that never existed).
This attitude of treating brilliant Baldur's Gate content as inconsequential leads me to think Beamdog was not driven to create the best possible game. From what I can tell, they were driven to do something no different from what many modders have done: create a mod for a game to show off their developer chops so they can get work creating new games. What's different here is that these guys actually grabbed the IP and then sold their mod for $20. It's all legal, but it's not kosher. I call it a cash grab.
(As an aside, SCS is brilliant, but it does noticeably unbalance the game for novices to the game's combat system).
They didn't treat the mods as inconsequential at all, they actually hired modders from the community... who tried to keep everything as compatible as possible with the old mods while allowing easier modding of many aspects.
I mean if we're going to be all accusatory about how they supposedly "grabbed" the IP and "sold their mod" then we can at least have some historical accuracy.
As far as "cash grabs" go it seems to me that the best way to grab cash isn't to repackage an 18-year old game.
I have been happily playing the EE versions for the last year. I'm not technical minded at all but even for me, it was clear that this forum and posts were about the game I was playing, I understand it's version 1.3. (I wouldn't even know that if it weren't for posts here, why would I, not interested).
Now I'm looking at posts about "EE" games and seeing screenshots, but they are not the game I am playing.
I'd like to play SOD but why on earth, somebody please explain why, I would want to have any change made to the games I have been playing for the last year very happily simply to play an expansion?
I remain hopeful v2.5 or 3 or something in the future will be bugfree and compatible with the product I have expected and paid for. There's no way I'm going back to vanilla's horrid loading times.
As far as I can work out, there have been some drastic changes to the UI, so why is this latest version of the game still being called "EE"?
It's not as if the EE versions are that old. And for people using the excuse that those of us finding it hard to adapt (or not wanting to adapt at all) to be called "luddites" or equivalent, FFS, the game is 20 years old anyway.
So at the moment, no download for me, no money for Beamdog, though I would still like to support them.
They just need to understand their customer base a bit better.
Tastes will vary of course, but I don't really understand why people are so against it. Will be good when modders start putting out whatever people want to use though.
TBH how dare you say that?
I haven't insulted anybody for liking the changes to the UI, but you see fit to disparage my opinion that I am happy with the game without those changes.
It isn't being "vocal" to mention that with this new version, it's now confusing for people who haven't upgraded to follow some things on this forum because the same name/title is being used for both.
Just over a year ago I bought the EE's, they cost about £40 and am quite willing to say it was among the best money I have ever spent on entertainment.
It was quite clear when people refer to "EE" as opposed to those refering to "original", but now it's which EE, the one I play or the new download.
Why is it so outrageous to want to carry on playing these games I bought, in the format I bought them, with the UI I enjoy, but also would like to spend money on any expansion to the story?
And it is important to understand the difference between "story/saga" and UI.
This is what I fail to understand, why an expansion to the BG saga, the story, the filling in the gap of "what happened next" between BG and BG2, has been linked to all the other changes.
Get over it.
I do love what pecca has done with the ui. that to me is great, and would not be possible without the new ui