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Did Gorion's ward got such a huge amount of divine essence because......



  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Buttercheese Yes it assuredly has. But a lot of dialogue in ToB (Particularly by Sarevok and the Solar) almost flatly states that if Gorion had taken Sarevok instead of charame, Sarevok would have ended the bhaalspawn war. Sarevok even mentions that he thought the prophecy referred to him in BG1 but has come under new understanding that it referred to the ward of Gorion.
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    That is what I have been saying ... Charname isn't a chosen one, Charname just got (un)lucky.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147

    That is what I have been saying ... Charname isn't a chosen one, Charname just got (un)lucky.

    "Gorion's ward" is the chosen one.
    Who has that mantle is immaterial.

    So for the purposes of the game, because you play as "Gorion's ward" (not as Sarevok, not as Yaga Sura ect.) you are the chosen one.

    In fact the game, because it's a game and you can be any charname/class/sex, ect. you want to be, that's emphasised more
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235

    That is what I have been saying ... Charname isn't a chosen one, Charname just got (un)lucky.

    Wait, what are we debating again? It sounds like we agree.
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    edited December 2017
    Something about how I am pretty certain that no part of Alaundo's prophecy ever mentioned "Gorion's Ward" or any specific people aside from Bhaal in general, ergo Charname not being able to be a "chosen one" because there is no prophecy about a chosen one. I think.

    PS: Let me quickly go talk to those magic prophecy statues from the beginning of ToB again.

    PPS: So the Forest Spirit says the following stuff:
    The wheels of prophecy e'er turn;
    Gorion's ward hath come.
    Crossroad of past, present, and future;
    The one foreseen, the one foretold.

    That which hath past is ne'er truly gone;
    History repeats, though mortals choose not to see.
    War and bloddshed be not new to the realms;
    A god that once hath been may be once again.

    Armies march and cities burn;
    The rivers froth with tainted blood.
    The corpses of those born not innocent
    Feed the inferno of boiling hate.

    Bhaal's Servant deceived; Five led down a false path;
    A hidden traitor lurks in thy midst.
    A Servant of Bhaal knows death and destruction,
    The face of an ally, the mask of a foe.

    The children of Bhaal bring death to the land;
    They slaughter each other and feed their father.
    Death and betrayal walk together;
    A river tainted blood doth not cleanse.

    The storm approaches. We speak no more.
    So there's a lot of unpack here. This is clearly a seperate prophecy, detached from Alaundo's initial prophecy. I am readonably sure that the "Gorion's ward hath come" line is in there because that is Charname's title, not because this prophecy needs someone with that specific title. But then it's "the one foreseen, the one fortold." That would be that redcon aparently, because prior to that there was no foretelling of "Gorion's Ward", and foretelling kinda requires to happen, well, before that thing happens.

    No clue what the second stave is about. I don't recall any other god on Toril fathering countless children just to have them murder each other. "The corpses of those born not innocent" are the dead Bhaalspawn, methinks.

    I guess "feed the inferno of boiling hate" is about people starting to hate all Bhaalspawn, despite their individual characters. Not sure how exactly those last two verses would fit together tho, since people hate the Bhaalspawn for dragging non-Bhaalspawn into their war.

    Stave four is just straight up spoilers. No idea who the last verse refers to though, because an ally masking as a foe would mean that one of the antagonists would have been an ally all along. Maaaaybe that is Balthazar, since he tries to kill all the Bhaalspawn for the greater good, but that still includes Charname (also Imoen and Sarevok, if the player chooses to ally themselves with them), so he is still a foe. It only works if the stave is from the POV of the regular people.

    Most of stave five is pretty straight forward. However, in retrospective the last verse is really interesting. "A river tainted blood doth not cleanse." The easy interpretation would of course be that the Bhaalspawn war will leave it's footprint on the Realms for ever. But here is an interpretation I find much more interesting: What if this refers to the ending option of Charname and Imoen being able to give up the taint in themselves? What if it's saying that they never can truly get rid of it? That a tangible piece of Bhaal will always be inside them? (And no, I don't mean in the philosophical way of how ones past shapes ones character.)

    Right. So all of this appears to me like a last minute prophecy. One that needed a lot of other stuff to happen in advance before it could be formulated. In this case the Bhaalspawn war had to start before this prophecy could have been conceived, because before that the future had too many possible outcomes. After all, the future is never truly set in stone in the Realms (otherwise there wouldn't have been three different gods of luck througout history).

    I have to think some more about this, but I am still don't believe that "Gorion's Ward" was always "the chosen one". I also wanna believe that the writers at the time where better than "oops, there was always this additional prophecy around that was never before mentioned, toodeloo".
    Post edited by Buttercheese on
  • FangyFangy Member Posts: 1
    4th is about Mellissandre: the servant of Bhaal who deceived, with the face of an ally.
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