Choosing your weapon proficiencies (base stats for all weapons)

PugPug

It's hard to say what items will be added to BG:EE and its sequels in the future. So if you want to powergame, here are the base stats for each weapon.

Below there are the damage dice, and then in parentheses is the weapon speed, which only matters in determining at what point in the round you attack -- it doesn't grant you any extra attacks or anything like that. But if you kill a guy before he attacks for that round, that's always nice. A round is 6 seconds. A lower number here is faster.

Weapon mastery (4 pips) gives a -1 to speed factor. Grand mastery (5 pips) gives -3. Additionally, for each level of enchantment, -1 is applied to the speed factor. This means a fighter with a grand mastery in bastard swords swings a +5 bastard sword with a speed factor of 0.

Note that Katanas, Wakizashis and Ninja-Tos are rarer finds than other kinds of weapons (especially true for Katanas), so you might have to wait awhile to find one.

And as you get better and better enchantments on weapons, these stats become a smaller and smaller portion of the damage.

EDIT: Backstabs work with long sword, short sword, katana, scimitar, dagger, club and quarterstaff -- the melee weapons usable by thieves.

The damage type matters because some types of damage have an easier or harder time hitting certain types of armor.

Slashing gets a penalty to studded (-2), chain (-2), plate (-3) and full plate (-4) armor.
Piercing gets a bonus to leather armor (+2) and a penalty to studded (-1), splint (-1) and full plate (-3) armor.
Bludgeoning gets a bonus to chain armor (+2) and a penalty to splint armor (-2).



One-handers:

Slashing:
Katana: 1d10 (4)
Bastard Sword: 2d4 (8)
Battle Axe: 1d8 (7)
Scimitar: 1d8 (5)
Ninja-To: 1d8 (4)
Long Sword: 1d8 (5)

Piercing:
Wakizashi: 1d8 (3)
Short Sword: 1d6 (3)
Dagger: 1d4 (2)

Bludgeoning:
Morning Star: 2d4 (7)
Flail: 1d6 + 1 (7)
Mace: 1d6 + 1 (7)
Club: 1d6 (4)
Warhammer: 1d4 + 1 (4)



Two-handers:
Two-handed sword: 1d10 (slashing) (10)
Halberd: 1d10 (piercing) (9)
Spear: 1d6 (piercing) (6)
Quarterstaff: 1d6 (bludgeoning) (4)



Missile Weapons (assuming normal ammo; all piercing):
Heavy Crossbow: 1d8 + 2 (10)
Light Crossbow: 1d8 (5)
Throwing Axe: 1d6 + 1 (4)
Composite Long Bow: 1d6 + 1, +1 THAC0 (7)
Long Bow: 1d6, +1 THAC0 (7)
Short Bow: 1d6 (6)
Sling: 1d4 + 1 (6)
Throwing Dagger: 1d4 (2)
Dart: 1d3 (2)



• Scimitar/Wakizashi/Ninja-To is a single proficiency.

• Flail/Morning Star is a single proficiency.

• Light and Heavy Crossbows use the Crossbow proficiency.

• Composite Long Bow uses the Long Bow proficiency.

• Battle and Throwing Axes use the Axe proficiency.

• Daggers and Throwing Daggers use the Dagger proficiency.

Amardarial

for Backstabs any Naturally usable weapon for Thieves works...

Oxford_Guy

Amardarial said:

for Backstabs any Naturally usable weapon for Thieves works...

Including quarter staves

Thorsson

You left Long Sword off the list.

Oxford_Guy

I assume the dwarf throwing hammer in BG2 uses the hammer proficiency?

Senash

Oxford_Guy said:

I assume the dwarf throwing hammer in BG2 uses the hammer proficiency?

If I remember well, it does.

ermo

@Thorsson said:

You left Long Sword off the list.

@PugPug: FYI.

PugPug

Thorsson said:

You left Long Sword off the list.

Fixed.

Nostalgia

"There's the damage dice, and then In parentheses is the weapon speed, which only matters in determining at what point in the round you attack -- it doesn't grant you any extra attacks or anything like that. But if you kill a guy before he attacks for that round, that's always nice. A round is 6 seconds. A lower number here is faster."

Can Someone please explain the weapon speed to me. I don't really understand how BG calculates it. I can understand the speed in terms of Pen and paper with dice, but when you put it into the game how does it determine the order in which you attack?

Is it like: when 2 people get in melle range with each other the one with a lower weapon speed(say a dagger) will strike first then the slower speed(say a long sword), then when the round resets they both attack again in the same order?

Edit: To expand on this: If someone is weilding a fast and slow weapon will the same rules apply or is it averaged? For eg. A long sword(5) and a dagger(2) vs a Mace(7) and a club(4) will the order in attacks be: Person 1 hits with dagger, then person 2 hits with club, then person 1 with long sword etc.

ermo

Nostalgia said:

(...)
Is it like: when 2 people get in melee range with each other, the one with a lower weapon speed (say a dagger) will strike first then the slower speed (say a long sword), then when the round resets they both attack again in the same order?

Edit: To expand on this: If someone is wielding a fast and slow weapon will the same rules apply or is it averaged? For eg. A long sword(5) and a dagger(2) vs a mace(7) and a club(4) will the order in attacks be: Person 1 hits with dagger, then person 2 hits with club, then person 1 with long sword etc.

I've always assumed that this is how it would work. I've never bothered testing it, though.

iKrivetko

You roll a d10 for initiative and add the speed factor of the weapon to determine the order. That's how it works in pnp, at least.

lunar

Every character has its own personal round and initiative in the game. So characters with lower speed factors will attack first, not always but most of the time.

Speed factor is important when you need to do a quick attack. Like making a backstab before your stealth fades or the enemy walks away. Or to disrupt a mage casting a spell. Having low attack speed weapons is a boon in these cases.

abbadaba

Man, look at all those penalties to slashing. Guess I shouldn't be loading up on swords so much.

Oxford_Guy

abbadaba said:

Man, look at all those penalties to slashing. Guess I shouldn't be loading up on swords so much.

Although there are less enemies immune (or at least partially resistant) to slashing than there are to piercing...

Darkcloud

Bludgeoning is the best because there are also less enemies with damage reduction to it or immunities to it.

PugPug

I know clay golems are immune to slashing (and weapons less than +2, I believe). Some jellies are immune to slashing, and maybe piercing, I think. What else is there?

And AFAIK nothing is immune to bludgeoning/crushing. It doesn't really make sense that anything would be.

But you'll notice the slashing weapons tend to have the best damage/speed stats. Piercing is all about speed. Bludgeoning really only has accuracy going for it, but accuracy is a big deal. I've become a big fan of the Flail/Morning Star proficiency since I started paying attention to this.

Oxford_Guy

BTW The excellent Volothamp's (spoiler-free) guide has a great visual way of showing weapon bonus/malus for different armours, see:
http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap6.htm

It also lists the correct information for Hide and Elven Chain:

Hide Armour - AC6

vs. Missile: +2
vs. Blunt: +0
vs. Piercing: +2
vs. Slashing: +0

Allows Wizard spellcasting. Allows the use of all Thieving skills, but with penalties: -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets.


Elven Chain - AC5 (apart from allowing arcance casting and thief usage, is basically the same as ordinary chain, protection-wise, though is ligher)

vs. Missile: +0
vs. Blunt: +2
vs. Piercing: +0
vs. Slashing: -2

Allows Wizard spellcasting. Allows the use of all Thieving skills, but with penalties: -10% to Move Silently, -5% Pick Locks, -5% Detect/Disarm Traps, and -20% to Pick Pockets.

My fighter/mage in BGEE uses the Elven chain (which I CLUA-ed in after the encounter where it's meant to drop) and the Destroyer of the Hills belt, which gives -4 to crushing attacks, so the overall affect with that combo is a more respectable:

vs. Missile: +0
vs. Blunt: -2
vs. Piercing: +0
vs. Slashing: -2


It doesn't list Ankeg armour, though, I think this is treated as ordinary plate (not full plate), but is lighter and in BGEE is not counted as being magical, so can be used with protection rings etc., though Druids and Beastmasters still can't use it, which is a shame (though I don't think Archers not Stalkers should be able to)

ZanathKariashi

All the weapons are pretty well represented in 2, even if they don't add any new ones. While morning stars are a bit meh, and the best club tends to hurt you more then the enemy, they have perfectly acceptable options for the majority of enemies.

Staves are the straight up most damaging weapons (thanks to the staff of the ram), but several other classes have 1 really awesome weapon, some of which can be acquired early in the sequel.

PugPug

Senash said:

Oxford_Guy said:

I assume the dwarf throwing hammer in BG2 uses the hammer proficiency?

If I remember well, it does.

Not only that, I think it uses piercing damage (like all other missile weapons) unless you apply the tweak pack.

Bestopher

@PugPug

I just noticed that I don't see the composite longbow on here.

PugPug

Bestopher said:

@PugPug

I just noticed that I don't see the composite longbow on here.

Thanks!

Xeviat

What are the default number of attacks for those ranged weapons? That's important in knowing the power of things like Darts vs. Bows vs. Slings.

TJ_Hooker

Xeviat said:

What are the default number of attacks for those ranged weapons? That's important in knowing the power of things like Darts vs. Bows vs. Slings.

Base attacks per round (APR) are as follows:
Bows, throwing daggers: 2 APR
Darts: 3 APR
All other weapons types (ranged or otherwise): 1 APR

Xeviat

Thanks TJ. It also seems that slings apply Str modifier to damage in BG:EE, unless that's something snuck in by one of my mods.

CutlassJack

Slings, throwing daggers and throwing axes all get Str modifiers to damage in BG:EE. Not Darts, which would be overpowered.

Kouga

I always wondered. What exactly is the difference between 2D4 and 1D8 (Bastard vs Long sword)? I'm just picking 2 random numbers that seem to be alike.

I pressume the D stands for damage? But why are there 2 numbers? This would help alot in understanding which weapontype is stronger than the other also taking speed into account.

I've been wondering for years. ._.

James

Kouga said:

I always wondered. What exactly is the difference between 2D4 and 1D8 (Bastard vs Long sword)? I'm just picking 2 random numbers that seem to be alike.

I pressume the D stands for damage? But why are there 2 numbers? This would help alot in understanding which weapontype is stronger than the other also taking speed into account.

I've been wondering for years. ._.

D is for Dice 2d4 is rolling 2 x 4 sided dice added together to give you total damage

AstroBryGuy

@Kouga, the first number is the number of dice to be rolled and the second is the size of the dice. So, "2d4" means "two 4-sided dice" and "1d8" means "one 8-sided die".

Both 2d4 and 1d8 have similar results (2-8 vs 1-8). However, 2d4 has a higher minimum than 1d8 (2 vs 1), a half-point higher average (5 vs 4.5), and a greater chance of damage around the average.

About the last point - a long sword (1d8) has an equal chance of each damage result (12.5%). So the odds of getting an "8" are the same as a "5" or a "1". A bastard sword has a 1 in 16 chance of an "8" or a "2" (minimum damage for a bastard sword), but a 1 in 4 chance of "5". So, your damage output will be more consistently around the average.

ZanathKariashi

Bastard swords are slightly larger then longswords but not quite 2hded swords, so they deal slightly more damage on average. That's all that means.

Though technically speaking, a 1hded bastard sword is supposed to deal 1d8, just like a LS, but using it 2hded allows it to deal 2d4.

(You can technically use 2hds for most 1hd weapons, but it just makes it easier to hit (+1) with due to increased stability, though some weapons like Bastard swords and Katana can deal extra damage due to being large enough to have noticeable extra effect).

Kouga

Cheers! Thanks alot guys (:


Edit: Thanks to you guys I just calculated that of all one-handed bludgeoning weapons, the club and the warhammer make the most damage after 28 rounds.

However I presumed that the speed i.e. 4 meant that it hit once every 4 rounds. In that perspective, per 28 rounds, the warhammer and club made an average of 21 damage, the morning star an average of 20 and the club and flail an average of 18. Lastly the club has the highest damage potential of 36 per 28 rounds, but also potentially the lowest of 6 damage per 28 rounds. So the warhammer would be the least-gambley, highest damage choice.

Am I doing it right??

Eudaemonium

Speed actually only affects *when* in each round your strike, your attacks per round are determined entirely by your class, level and whether you are under any effects like Haste (which increases attacks). (This confused me at first as well). Again, just to reiterate, speed has *no* effect on attacks per round.

A high-speed weapon (closer to 0) will attack before ones with a higher rating. So for example a +3 Quarterstaff has a speed of 0, and thus attacks very early in the round, allowing you to strike and then run away before the enemy has a chance to react (if you are clever, and they have a weapon that has a speed factor greater than 0).

The amount of times you can strike with said staff however will vary by Class. Fighters gain an extra 1/2 attack per round at levels 7 and 13, and a further 1/2 attack for Weapon Specialisation (2 stars) and again at Grand Mastery (5 stars). A Fighter at level 13 wielding a quarterstaff with Grandmastery will thus have 3 attacks per round (APR).

You can increase it further by dual-wielding (but obviously not with a staff), which gives you an extra attack with the weapon in your second hand (4 maximum: weapons in the off-hand do not gain extra attacks from Specialisation). Some weapons also grant a bonus attack as a special ability. This is why a popular is to dual-wield one of these 'speed weapons' (as they often get called, they are all in BG2) in the off-hand, giving you a total of 5 APR. This is the hard-cap, and can only be increased by the Improved Haste spell, which will double it to 10. =O

Non-Fighters (excluding Rangers and Paladins) cannot gain extra attacks through anything other than items that increase it, or spells like Haste/Improved Haste. They do not gain any by levelling up.