Hi, fellow users. Is it possible to beat dragons without mage or sorcerer or bard? I'm currently playing with an evil party: my Bhaalspawn, assassin dual-classed to warrior, fallen blackguard Dorn, Hexxat and Viconia. I took Bodhi's offer too soon, before completing Bloodscalp quest. Therefore, I don't have access to Edwin. Right now I'm doing fine, but I wonder if that party would work against dragons.
So, my question: should I get Jan or Haer'Dalis, or is possible to deal without them?
Firstly, I tip my hat to you sir/madam for playing the game like a true man/woman. Without a sissy mage. It's the real way to play.
As to your particular party, I might recommend picking up Korgan. But it's doable with your party as-is.
Anyway, I am reminded of a thread that was on this forum months ago about a player trying to defeat Draconis and having trouble. They asked the forum for help but eventually managed to defeat the dragon using Edwin with a timestop+breach+spells combo, or something. Almost all of the advice from other users concerned what spells to use to take Draconis down.
You know how I defeated Draconis?
1. Found his ass. 2. Beat it.
I had 4 fighters, Viconia (used as melee fighter) and Imoen (I did cast a breach, but by the time it took her to cast the spell and then for the spell to travel the distance between her and the dragon, the spell impacted a corpse).
I batoned Draconis to death with sticks. No mages, no spells, and nothing more than gumption and an assortment of sticks and swords. Fighting dragons is completely possible without any kind of spell casting. Fighting dragons with melee and ranged weapons requires a bit of tactical management, but if you surround them you can 1. prevent all your troops from being exposed to their dragon's breath, and 2. prevent them from getting away from you and stopping you from landing hits.
Honestly.... mages are nice but they can make battles needlessly complicated when simplicity suffices. A strong fighting force will do just fine against a dragon. Any dragon.
Now, I had 4 fighters.... but you don't need 4 fighters. 2 strong fighters, as you have, will do.
You assassin's poison ability will do much to drain hitpoints. Dorn, though noa blackguard, still hits like a mack truck. Viconia, with holy might, righteous magic and her cleric buffs, can do well in melee with a dragon despite only 1APR. Hexxat can play archer with arrows of piercing.
Watch out for Thasylixiasisasquatch or whatever. The black dragon's breath immediately destroys all summoned allies and level drains your party (though now that I think of it, I think that may only be in SCS. Ah... I can't keep these straight anymore.)
With the thread I mentioned, about Draconis, one of the problems the user was experiencing was that Draconis was going invisible and healing, then appearing in other locations. In this case it's important to arrange your fighters in a formation that boxes him in, preventing his escape, and having the right equipment or soldier to dispell his invisibility, like Keldorn or the Gem of True Seeing (acquired through Rasaad's quest). Other dragons use other tactics, so adjust accordingly. Use your weapons and equipment abilities to win the day.
Dragons have ADD. It might just be me, but they seem to get distracted easily. Unlike other enemies who focus on one target even while other more threatening members of your party are stomping out their brains, Dragons flit about switch targets. If you use summons, swing them around behind or beside the dragon and attack, then pull your fighters back to heal and regroup/counter-attack if needed. The dragon will often switch seemlessly to attack the summons and give your party a reprieve.
Although you can retreat through a line of summoned allies and fall back, I recommend having your party and summons attack from different angles. This prevents you from being smashed by a dragon's breath while you're in the background, if your summons are directly between you and the dragon.
Dragons will cast stone skin, but 2 or 3 fighters will eat through these stoneskins in about 1 round, unhasted. Hasted, or with whirlwind if high level enough, no amount of protections will defend a dragon.
For weapons protections, none of them can defend against the full array of available weapons in the game. If the dragon puts a weapons protection up then simply switch to weapons not covered by the spell they cast. As far as I know, dragons are not naturally immune to normal weapons, and they like to cast Protection from Magical, so there's your way around it right there.
Other gear that can help against dragons:
Minute Meteors Cloak: Rasaad's Quest. High To-hit bonuses. Peridan: Firkraag's Dungeon. +6 to hit against dragons. Dragon's Bane: Unseeing Eye Cult Beholder Lair. +6 to hit against dragons. Arrows of Piercing: Non-magical plus 4 arrows. Elemental Arrows: Some of the dragons have immunity to certain elements, but not the opposite. Dragonscale shield: Elemental resistances. Cloak of Blurrrrrrr: Don't know it's real name, but buy it in trademeet along with the Belt of something-or-other for +5 to saving throws vs. breath. Fortress Shield and Sentinel: Ribald's and Ust Natha respectively, strongest shields that I know of in SoA. +5 to AC.
@sluckers, @bengoshi, thank you for your responses . Yesterday I beat both shadow dragon and Firkraag and it went pretty easy: shadow dragon went down after triggering four traps from Hexxat, one hit from my Bhaalspawn and one from Dorn. No injuries on my side. I killed Shadow Lord with no rest, on the same buffs. It was more tricky with Firkraag and beside traps, I used Gate to keep him busy with Pit Fiend. He indeed started to switch targets and that made fight much easier - and I'm not sure, but I think his melee couldn't hit Fiend. Anyhow, my fighters were beating his back, Hexxat shooting ice arrows, Viconia, like standing around... and then he died. So it actually seems doable. Right now I'm starting Brynnlaw and everything seems to go smooth. Hexxat is already on level 20, so next the she levels up I'll probably pick Use Every Item (or however it's called) - just in case, to be able to cast Breach or something. Once again - thanks for your help.
Comments
As to your particular party, I might recommend picking up Korgan. But it's doable with your party as-is.
Anyway, I am reminded of a thread that was on this forum months ago about a player trying to defeat Draconis and having trouble. They asked the forum for help but eventually managed to defeat the dragon using Edwin with a timestop+breach+spells combo, or something. Almost all of the advice from other users concerned what spells to use to take Draconis down.
You know how I defeated Draconis?
1. Found his ass.
2. Beat it.
I had 4 fighters, Viconia (used as melee fighter) and Imoen (I did cast a breach, but by the time it took her to cast the spell and then for the spell to travel the distance between her and the dragon, the spell impacted a corpse).
I batoned Draconis to death with sticks. No mages, no spells, and nothing more than gumption and an assortment of sticks and swords. Fighting dragons is completely possible without any kind of spell casting. Fighting dragons with melee and ranged weapons requires a bit of tactical management, but if you surround them you can 1. prevent all your troops from being exposed to their dragon's breath, and 2. prevent them from getting away from you and stopping you from landing hits.
Honestly.... mages are nice but they can make battles needlessly complicated when simplicity suffices. A strong fighting force will do just fine against a dragon. Any dragon.
Now, I had 4 fighters.... but you don't need 4 fighters. 2 strong fighters, as you have, will do.
You assassin's poison ability will do much to drain hitpoints. Dorn, though noa blackguard, still hits like a mack truck. Viconia, with holy might, righteous magic and her cleric buffs, can do well in melee with a dragon despite only 1APR. Hexxat can play archer with arrows of piercing.
Watch out for Thasylixiasisasquatch or whatever. The black dragon's breath immediately destroys all summoned allies and level drains your party (though now that I think of it, I think that may only be in SCS. Ah... I can't keep these straight anymore.)
With the thread I mentioned, about Draconis, one of the problems the user was experiencing was that Draconis was going invisible and healing, then appearing in other locations. In this case it's important to arrange your fighters in a formation that boxes him in, preventing his escape, and having the right equipment or soldier to dispell his invisibility, like Keldorn or the Gem of True Seeing (acquired through Rasaad's quest). Other dragons use other tactics, so adjust accordingly. Use your weapons and equipment abilities to win the day.
Dragons have ADD. It might just be me, but they seem to get distracted easily. Unlike other enemies who focus on one target even while other more threatening members of your party are stomping out their brains, Dragons flit about switch targets. If you use summons, swing them around behind or beside the dragon and attack, then pull your fighters back to heal and regroup/counter-attack if needed. The dragon will often switch seemlessly to attack the summons and give your party a reprieve.
Although you can retreat through a line of summoned allies and fall back, I recommend having your party and summons attack from different angles. This prevents you from being smashed by a dragon's breath while you're in the background, if your summons are directly between you and the dragon.
Dragons will cast stone skin, but 2 or 3 fighters will eat through these stoneskins in about 1 round, unhasted. Hasted, or with whirlwind if high level enough, no amount of protections will defend a dragon.
For weapons protections, none of them can defend against the full array of available weapons in the game. If the dragon puts a weapons protection up then simply switch to weapons not covered by the spell they cast. As far as I know, dragons are not naturally immune to normal weapons, and they like to cast Protection from Magical, so there's your way around it right there.
Other gear that can help against dragons:
Minute Meteors Cloak: Rasaad's Quest. High To-hit bonuses.
Peridan: Firkraag's Dungeon. +6 to hit against dragons.
Dragon's Bane: Unseeing Eye Cult Beholder Lair. +6 to hit against dragons.
Arrows of Piercing: Non-magical plus 4 arrows.
Elemental Arrows: Some of the dragons have immunity to certain elements, but not the opposite.
Dragonscale shield: Elemental resistances.
Cloak of Blurrrrrrr: Don't know it's real name, but buy it in trademeet along with the Belt of something-or-other for +5 to saving throws vs. breath.
Fortress Shield and Sentinel: Ribald's and Ust Natha respectively, strongest shields that I know of in SoA. +5 to AC.
Have fun clobbering them. Hope this helps.
Nizidramanii'yt
Black Dragon from the Yaga Shura's lair
Draconis
Dragons inside the Abazigal's lair
Dragons outside the Abazigal's lair
Abazigal
It was more tricky with Firkraag and beside traps, I used Gate to keep him busy with Pit Fiend. He indeed started to switch targets and that made fight much easier - and I'm not sure, but I think his melee couldn't hit Fiend. Anyhow, my fighters were beating his back, Hexxat shooting ice arrows, Viconia, like standing around... and then he died.
So it actually seems doable. Right now I'm starting Brynnlaw and everything seems to go smooth. Hexxat is already on level 20, so next the she levels up I'll probably pick Use Every Item (or however it's called) - just in case, to be able to cast Breach or something.
Once again - thanks for your help.