My thoughts on the game, having just finished
Vbibbi
Member Posts: 229
All right, so I said I wasn't going to buy it and just watch Let's Plays of the game, but after going through most of an online playthrough I figured I was interested enough to play it. So I bought it and have just finished a first runthrough.
Knowing the controversy of Mizhena, her actual presence in the game is hilariously minor compared to the vitriol people have spewed in reaction. Yes, I think she could have been better represented and it's artificial to just have her go into detail on her background after one conversation. But really, that's how most of the NPCs in these games react. It's only the in depth romances which take some time to get to know the person on a more intimate level, and those weren't even introduced in BG1. Granted, we can't ignore game development that has taken place after BG1, and that is one of the challenges of making an interquel of a 15 year old game.
I think the issue for me is more than the tone of the game was sometimes jarring when compared to BG1 and BG2. While I enjoyed the game a lot and it was fun to have another adventure in the Sword Coast, the overly cheeky tone which pervaded a lot of the expansion came across as over the top and intrusive. Many of the PC's dialogue options were much more sarcastic and witty than anything available in the base games, to the point where it seemed overkill and no longer funny. The rare sarcastic dialogue in the original games was more notable because it wasn't constant, and poking fun at the D&D system or the setting was fun because we usually took it at face value. When every option we have includes poking fun, it loses its potency and shine.
It reminds me of my issue with Rasaad. I played through both BG1 and BG2 with him before (I didn't play with him in my party in SoD yet) and it seemed like most of the "correct" dialogue lines for him were snarky and trying to get him to be less serious all the time. That's well and good, but why is he the only person in the base games I can say this to? Most of the dialogue is black and white good and evil (not the most sophisticated, granted) and then with this one NPC I can be snarky in every dialogue. Why wouldn't we also have the option to treat him as seriously as he treats his own beliefs? It's railroading the PC into not believing Rasaad's beliefs and trying to force a change in him rather than leaving him as is.
I do think that SoD improved on a lot of the aspects of the vanilla games, including multiple paths (the Bridgefort siege, dealing with Caelar, the ending judgment). There was enough good side content that I didn't mind that we didn't have many options other than to stick to the linear main plot. I do think there should have been more obvious warnings when we were ending a chapter and could not return to previous maps. It's obvious in the first chapter, as we're not coming back to Baldur's Gate, but it wasn't so clear in the next chapter when there's no actual reason why we couldn't return to previous maps, since our small party wouldn't move as slowly as a large army. And the dwarven mines was such a large area that it was actually half of the entire time I spent in that chapter. It could have been helpful to come back to that later.
I only just recently purchased the game, so I didn't experience any of the launch bugs and didn't encounter too many bugs as I went. I luckily did keep multiple saves just in case, since I came back to camp in Chapter 9 and M'Khiin was nowhere to be found, so I had to reload to the previous chapter, put her in my party, then continue to Chapter 9. Small things like this which aren't game breaking but significant in missing out on content.
And I'm a little frustrated that some of the achievements still happen to be bugged. There are three which seem to be confirmed not to work at all, one which takes multiple reloads to achieve, and one which I didn't get but I haven't heard anyone else hasn't missed. Some of the achievements seem very random and impossible to obtain without metagaming. There are two about finding all allies for the siege and fighting all optional enemies, but neither of these groups are intuitive or make much sense as to why it would matter. The achievement about winning three riddle games is similarly strange, since the first riddle requires a low charisma to even obtain, the second requires using a limited charge item after we have already encountered enough instances to deplete the charges, and the final riddle is surprisingly easy to miss due to dialogue options often leading to a fight rather than the riddle.
So ultimately, I enjoyed the game and am glad I purchased it. It had some bugs and flaws, most of which I mentioned, but overall I thought it captured a lot of the spirit of the original games, if not always the tone. And it was a lot of fun adventuring in the setting again at a good level. Not too underpowered like the start of BG1 and not boringly overpowered like the second half of BG2 and all of ToB. I would definitely be interested if there is another expansion for BG2, as there are some remaining plot threads from SoD which could be tied up. I would hope that Beamdog takes feedback from what worked and what didn't in SoD (and not trolling about transgender characters) if they continue working in BG.
I don't want a BG3 from them, though. Unless that's a placeholder name for a completely new PC, new story, just using Infinity Engine and set in the FR. But I don't see how there could be an entire game's worth of story for the Bhaalspawn after ToB. That was all wrapped up and any further stories veer into personal headcanon.
I would much rather they work on a completely new story than keep relying on existing games for their work. Let's see what Gaider is involved in and hopefully his world building skills will help them in a new franchise.
Knowing the controversy of Mizhena, her actual presence in the game is hilariously minor compared to the vitriol people have spewed in reaction. Yes, I think she could have been better represented and it's artificial to just have her go into detail on her background after one conversation. But really, that's how most of the NPCs in these games react. It's only the in depth romances which take some time to get to know the person on a more intimate level, and those weren't even introduced in BG1. Granted, we can't ignore game development that has taken place after BG1, and that is one of the challenges of making an interquel of a 15 year old game.
I think the issue for me is more than the tone of the game was sometimes jarring when compared to BG1 and BG2. While I enjoyed the game a lot and it was fun to have another adventure in the Sword Coast, the overly cheeky tone which pervaded a lot of the expansion came across as over the top and intrusive. Many of the PC's dialogue options were much more sarcastic and witty than anything available in the base games, to the point where it seemed overkill and no longer funny. The rare sarcastic dialogue in the original games was more notable because it wasn't constant, and poking fun at the D&D system or the setting was fun because we usually took it at face value. When every option we have includes poking fun, it loses its potency and shine.
It reminds me of my issue with Rasaad. I played through both BG1 and BG2 with him before (I didn't play with him in my party in SoD yet) and it seemed like most of the "correct" dialogue lines for him were snarky and trying to get him to be less serious all the time. That's well and good, but why is he the only person in the base games I can say this to? Most of the dialogue is black and white good and evil (not the most sophisticated, granted) and then with this one NPC I can be snarky in every dialogue. Why wouldn't we also have the option to treat him as seriously as he treats his own beliefs? It's railroading the PC into not believing Rasaad's beliefs and trying to force a change in him rather than leaving him as is.
I do think that SoD improved on a lot of the aspects of the vanilla games, including multiple paths (the Bridgefort siege, dealing with Caelar, the ending judgment). There was enough good side content that I didn't mind that we didn't have many options other than to stick to the linear main plot. I do think there should have been more obvious warnings when we were ending a chapter and could not return to previous maps. It's obvious in the first chapter, as we're not coming back to Baldur's Gate, but it wasn't so clear in the next chapter when there's no actual reason why we couldn't return to previous maps, since our small party wouldn't move as slowly as a large army. And the dwarven mines was such a large area that it was actually half of the entire time I spent in that chapter. It could have been helpful to come back to that later.
I only just recently purchased the game, so I didn't experience any of the launch bugs and didn't encounter too many bugs as I went. I luckily did keep multiple saves just in case, since I came back to camp in Chapter 9 and M'Khiin was nowhere to be found, so I had to reload to the previous chapter, put her in my party, then continue to Chapter 9. Small things like this which aren't game breaking but significant in missing out on content.
And I'm a little frustrated that some of the achievements still happen to be bugged. There are three which seem to be confirmed not to work at all, one which takes multiple reloads to achieve, and one which I didn't get but I haven't heard anyone else hasn't missed. Some of the achievements seem very random and impossible to obtain without metagaming. There are two about finding all allies for the siege and fighting all optional enemies, but neither of these groups are intuitive or make much sense as to why it would matter. The achievement about winning three riddle games is similarly strange, since the first riddle requires a low charisma to even obtain, the second requires using a limited charge item after we have already encountered enough instances to deplete the charges, and the final riddle is surprisingly easy to miss due to dialogue options often leading to a fight rather than the riddle.
So ultimately, I enjoyed the game and am glad I purchased it. It had some bugs and flaws, most of which I mentioned, but overall I thought it captured a lot of the spirit of the original games, if not always the tone. And it was a lot of fun adventuring in the setting again at a good level. Not too underpowered like the start of BG1 and not boringly overpowered like the second half of BG2 and all of ToB. I would definitely be interested if there is another expansion for BG2, as there are some remaining plot threads from SoD which could be tied up. I would hope that Beamdog takes feedback from what worked and what didn't in SoD (and not trolling about transgender characters) if they continue working in BG.
I don't want a BG3 from them, though. Unless that's a placeholder name for a completely new PC, new story, just using Infinity Engine and set in the FR. But I don't see how there could be an entire game's worth of story for the Bhaalspawn after ToB. That was all wrapped up and any further stories veer into personal headcanon.
I would much rather they work on a completely new story than keep relying on existing games for their work. Let's see what Gaider is involved in and hopefully his world building skills will help them in a new franchise.
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Comments
I enjoyed SoD, but I was hoping it would be The Empire Strikes Back. I would have had scripted deaths for Khalid and Dynaheir, and dialogue for you dealing with their partners. Rich vein of storytelling fodder in there. Does Minsc suffer rages at random unless you choose the right dialog. Does Jaheira become Catatonic Neutral unless you help her? I would have had more of the BG1 NPCs as well, and script deaths for most of those that don't make it through to BG2, like Ajantis.
We could have built up Irenicus, or the SoD opponents, by having then permakill characters and create an atmosphere of struggle and darkness, forcing you to recruit new NPCs and widening your experience.
And the last chapter could separate you from non canon party members and have you face the Irenicus ambush with the only assistance that was available - the other (canon) cell mates who free you.
Which you lose.
I'd have gone to a dark, dark place with this one.
The Empire Strikes Back would not have been The Empire Strikes Back had George Lucas produced it after Return of the Jedi.
I don't know that seeing Khalid or Dynaheir die on screen would have been effective. Khalid, at least, is a plot point when escaping the dungeon, as we don't know where he is until we find his body. I guess they could show Dynaheir die, if they plan on adjusting any BG2 content and add a dialogue choice when freeing Minsc that mentions that we saw her die, as well. As it stands, his dialogue is vague on when and how she died.
What could have been dark is if one of the new SoD NPCs accompanied us as well and they died in the attack. It couldn't be Corwin since she could have been in the sewers, but any of the other three could have also been helping us escape and be killed in front of us. That would shatter the happy ending.
1) It makes ZERO sense for BG3 to use the Infinity Engine; that engine is over 15 years old. It is simply a fact that there are much better engines out there right now.
2) BG3 would likely be a new story, in the same way that Neverwinter Nights 2 was a new story from NWN1.
3) BG3 WILL be using 5E. Tweets from the CEO have confirmed this.
Oh okay thanks for sharing. So does that mean BG3 is officially in production, if they've confirmed the 5E rule set?
2. Spot on.
3. R.I.P BG if they use the 5th edition.
So, yeah, a third game that looks back, where history echoes in your footsteps and mirrors and dictates the present and the future could certainly work. Unfortunately, the key word is "could". Much as I enjoyed SoD in general and adored having a chance to hang with a select subset of my old friends, the game did not enamor me to Beamdog's writing style. So I wouldn't be confident enough to pre-order a collector's edition the game well in advance, for example, as I did with SoD. Still, it really could work.
The only companion who could return would be Xan, and he would have had to relearn his spellcasting from scratch because of the spell plague.
(Kivan could have a cameo, but he would be too high level to return as a companion.)
Jan = Pickled his brain. You can use resurrection on him.
Haer'Dalis = Some planar travel mumbo jumbo.
Korgan = Looting the Book of Kaza cursed him, trapping his soul or whatever. Undead Korgan.
Baeloth = Hand wave his death by confusing us with fancy words.
Minsc = Minsc.
Edwin = LICH!
Hexxat = Vampire...
Dorn = Made a deal with a demon to live forever.
Neera = *Wild Surge* Imprisonment spell on self.
Anomen = The turd that wont flush.
God I hate BG:EE Neera
So much
As for living characters. Abdel(CHARNAME's given name for continuity sake) and Corwin both survive until 5th we know. Abdel becomes Duke and
I wasn't being serious. The last thing I want is for Minsc or Neera to show up in the next game. I just meant anything can happen in the Forgotten Realms...
Though I doubt I'd play a Baldur's Gate game in a new engine, because I just can't get *into* the new RPG games. I tried Pillars of Eternity, Divinity: Original Sin, and Sword Coast Legends and found them all to be boring.