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Voidsword and Voidhammer in BG2

At some point in SoD you can choose between the Voidsword +3, Voidhammer +3, 80x Void-tipped Arrow +3, and 80x Bullet of Darkness +3.

The Voidsword/Voidhammer gets imported. Properties are: ordinary+3 bonuses, no STR bonuses apply, magic damage instead of physical and drain 1 STR (save vs. spell negates, can't drain the last point)

Has anyone tried using these weapons here? I didn't make the weapon but the arrows instead because it seemed a bit useless. Arrows turned out great for the final SoD boss...but could the weapon be worth it in the long run? What's it good for?
Penetrating stoneskin? Is it good against some tough physical-resist and physical-immune enemies (and which are those)?
Can you orient a build around using the Voidsword for example? Kensai maybe vs stoneskinned dragons? Backstabbing stoneskinned mages? Another damage type for monks?

What are your thoughts about this weapon and is it worth choosing over the ammo in the scenario where ammo will be useful in SoD?
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Comments

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    No STR bonus hurts when you get to ToB, but before that, these weapons can be very, very powerful. Even in ToB though if you can backstab with the sword, it should be awesome as an assassin for example, with an amazing ability to kill a mage instantly through their stoneskin.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Useless in BG2. No STR bonus means pitiful damage, save vs. spell means drain is not going to happen against any relevant enemy.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636

    Useless in BG2. No STR bonus means pitiful damage, save vs. spell means drain is not going to happen against any relevant enemy.

    LOL, the lack of a Str bonus doesn't matter actually. Yeah, if you're a ridiculous power build person, then it isn't nice. But it's not as bad as you're stating by any means.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297

    Useless in BG2. No STR bonus means pitiful damage, save vs. spell means drain is not going to happen against any relevant enemy.

    LOL, the lack of a Str bonus doesn't matter actually. Yeah, if you're a ridiculous power build person, then it isn't nice. But it's not as bad as you're stating by any means.
    Let us look at a str 19 character.

    19 str is +7 damage. This is almost the same as the base damage of a +3 long sword. Even with specialization the str to hit can easily be half your damage.

    Never having used it, do you also miss out on the hit bonus? That one is also huge - unless you hit on each attack anyway, it is at least a 15% damage boost and can easily go up to 30%.

    There are higher girdles plus Crom Faeyr out there.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308

    Useless in BG2. No STR bonus means pitiful damage, save vs. spell means drain is not going to happen against any relevant enemy.

    LOL, the lack of a Str bonus doesn't matter actually. Yeah, if you're a ridiculous power build person, then it isn't nice. But it's not as bad as you're stating by any means.
    i don't understand what you're laughing at. are you talking about bypassing stoneskin or general use?
    if it doesn't have a str bonus then an ordinary non-magical sword is better 95% of the time.

    casting a strength spell on a low strength character or drinking a strength potion is powergaming to you? i have news for you: it's not.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    The aim of a weapon that deals magic damage instead of physical damage is that it can deal damage to ANY enemy (so long as they are hittable with a +3 weapon) through stoneskin etc... And besides Kuo-Toas (they partially resist magic damage) I don't believe any enemy resists magic damage.

    Such a weapon is not meant to be your main weapon. It's more like "the weapon that will do great job in every situation your main weapon does not work"
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    Slimes and golems can magical damage. Going through Stoneskin is nice, but rather common in BG2. Just need some elemental or poison damage. I suppose you could keep it around for that case, but eh. Once PfMW or AI is down, going through Stoneskin is usually very fast.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Don't you get them in BG2 at a very late point? You'll have more than enough better alternatives at that point. I never longed for a non-physical weapon, those few enemies resisting physical damage I never perceived as a big deal before.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Ammar said:

    Slimes and golems can magical damage. Going through Stoneskin is nice, but rather common in BG2. Just need some elemental or poison damage. I suppose you could keep it around for that case, but eh. Once PfMW or AI is down, going through Stoneskin is usually very fast.

    Dealing 2 or 3 damage through stoneskin interrupts a mage, dealing 12 damage per hit allows you to kill the mage through stoneskin. Dealing 84 damage (12*7) as an assassin one-shots the mage.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    Arunsun said:

    Ammar said:

    Slimes and golems can magical damage. Going through Stoneskin is nice, but rather common in BG2. Just need some elemental or poison damage. I suppose you could keep it around for that case, but eh. Once PfMW or AI is down, going through Stoneskin is usually very fast.

    Dealing 2 or 3 damage through stoneskin interrupts a mage, dealing 12 damage per hit allows you to kill the mage through stoneskin. Dealing 84 damage (12*7) as an assassin one-shots the mage.
    Maybe, but hitting him keeps him from casting, so he tends to be dead anyway. And an assassin could apply poison.

    Besides, the more powerful mages tend to have Stoneskin and PfMW or AI up at the same time, so you need to Breach them anyway.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    Arunsun said:

    Ammar said:

    Slimes and golems can magical damage. Going through Stoneskin is nice, but rather common in BG2. Just need some elemental or poison damage. I suppose you could keep it around for that case, but eh. Once PfMW or AI is down, going through Stoneskin is usually very fast.

    Dealing 2 or 3 damage through stoneskin interrupts a mage, dealing 12 damage per hit allows you to kill the mage through stoneskin. Dealing 84 damage (12*7) as an assassin one-shots the mage.
    how often are you in a situation to backstab a dangerous mage that has stoneskin up but doesn't have PfMW up?

    that's a pretty rare situation i think.

    edit: the only such fight i can think of is the red wizard enclave first room; mages there aren't dangerous by themselves but there's many of them and you want to finish them off quickly
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    Arunsun said:

    Ammar said:

    Slimes and golems can magical damage. Going through Stoneskin is nice, but rather common in BG2. Just need some elemental or poison damage. I suppose you could keep it around for that case, but eh. Once PfMW or AI is down, going through Stoneskin is usually very fast.

    Dealing 2 or 3 damage through stoneskin interrupts a mage, dealing 12 damage per hit allows you to kill the mage through stoneskin. Dealing 84 damage (12*7) as an assassin one-shots the mage.
    I haven't played SoD, nor seen this weapon, so I'm curious how a longsword +3 without any added damage deals 12 base damage before the BS modifier in your calculation?
    Shouldn't it be 1-8+3 or is it locked at 12 dmg base to balance out the lack of STR modifier?

    I tried to google the sword to look it up myself, but didn't find the answer oddly enough.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    @Skatan
    in the OP is everything there is to know about the sword
    you're right, an assassin won't be able to consistently deliver 12 damage, or reliably perform an 84dmg backstab on his own, but he will with the Headband of the Devout.
    he can do more with gauntlets which are multiplied.
    if he's a kensai/thief he will also do okay with it because kensai bonus is multiplied.

    IMPORTANT
    i have just tested the sword and have seen that it's not only the strength bonus which isn't applied:
    - proficiency bonuses also aren't applied
    - kensai damage bonus isn't applied
    - gauntlets' bonus isn't applied
    - bless & chant bonuses aren't applied
    - kai doesn't work!

    so it can safely be said that the voidsword actually applies a spell effect and doesn't work like a weapon at all
    Post edited by bob_veng on
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    edited May 2016
    bob_veng said:

    @Skatan
    in the OP is everything there is to know about the sword
    you're right, an assassin won't be able to consistently deliver 12 damage, or reliably perform an 84dmg backstab on his own, but he will with the Headband of the Devout.
    he can do more with gauntlets which are multiplied.
    if he's a kensai/thief he will also do okay with it because kensai bonus is multiplied.

    IMPORTANT
    i have just tested the sword and have seen that it's not only the strength bonus which isn't applied:
    - proficiency bonuses also aren't applied
    - kensai damage bonus isn't applied
    - gauntlets' bonus isn't applied
    - bless & chant bonuses aren't applied
    - kai doesn't work!

    so it can safely be said that the voidsword actually applies a spell effect and doesn't work like a weapon at all

    This changes a lot of things and closes the debate: these weapons are not viable for anything. The only character immune to all non-physical damage but magic one is Amelyssan, and a +3 weapon cannot hit her anyway.

    But still, the situation where you can hit a mage with stoneskin and no PfMW is... everytime you meet a mage with SCS without making your presence known:
    They have stoneskin because it is a long duration spell, but no PfMW.
    Post edited by Arunsun on
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    i know how scs works, but i was really having vanilla in mind when opening this thread

    will someone test the void weapons in 2.2? my version of the game isn't current.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    bob_veng said:

    will someone test the void weapons in 2.2? my version of the game isn't current.

    What, specifically, would you like tested?

    I gave it a few whirls and can confirm your earlier assessment. No bonus dmg from STR, no bonus hit from STR, no nothing. APR does seem to work normally, though.

    The damage is pitiful and the STR drain cannot actually kill anyone (stops at 1 STR). So, all you essentially get is a 7.5 average damage magic attack that doesn't work against undead. Not entirely useless, but nothing special at all.

    Personally I just don't see where I would be using this. Mages you can hit that only have SS up, where you're not content with any other elemental weapon being enough to interrupt spells? No idea. Golems maybe?
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    no bless bonus, no proficiency bonus, nothing nothing?

    that's bugged.

    edit: as of now this weapon is absolutely pathetic and if it is working as intended (with the description being wrong) it should really be made into something usable

    but it's 99% not working as intended. surely all the other conceivable bonuses were supposed to apply.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    What confuses me most is the -1 STR penalty, which does little other than annoy. What is supposed to be the function of that, considering no STR bonuses apply anyway?
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    i have a theory: they wanted to make an ordinary +3 sword that deals magical damage but has a -1 STR penalty, and when they couldn't make it work they just slapped "no STR bonus" on it to cover it up :smiley:
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I think the STR penalty was meant to be thematic rather than functional. It's worth pointing out, though, that it will impact your damage when dual-wielding, and also lower your carrying capacity.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    with it in the mainhand, the -1 STR does almost nothing and in the offhand, well...the weapon does nothing (absolulely no reason to choose it as an offhand weapon)

    so yeah. flavor.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    What confuses me most is the -1 STR penalty, which does little other than annoy. What is supposed to be the function of that, considering no STR bonuses apply anyway?

    A point of clarification, just in case it's getting muddled: The sword doesn't bestow a -1 penalty on the wielder; it bestows a penalty on the target (save negates).
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    @Dee
    You are mistaken. It "confers" -1 STR to wielder. Thats unrelated to it's STR draining on-hit ability.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Ah--yes, you're right. I was looking at the wrong part of the item.
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 676
    edited May 2016
    Hmm I haven't actually tested it, but can you drain the strength of the enemy to the point where he's encumbered? Not arguing about it's 'usefulness I'm just curious if STR works like that for monsters and so on.

    But yeah I do think excluding it from all thaco bonuses apart from STR as well makes it less attractive.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    edited May 2016
    @Dee

    I should also turn your attention to the fact that this sword is seriously bugged. No sort of damage bonus applies to it, not proficiency not anything. It's not correctly described as-is. But probably the behavior is wrong and description tells what's the desired behavior. There's a problem in the fluff part too, it feels incomplete and inadequate because it talks of a powerful weapon with one drawback when that's hardly the case - it's got a whole list of drawbacks one worse than the other

    @batoor, you don't have the whole picture...what if i told you that this is a weapon with which you will ever only be able to do 4-11 damage, even as a lvl20 kensai and even kai doesn't work?
    Post edited by bob_veng on
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 676
    No no, I read your earlier post and I agree with you there, not benefiting from any bonuses isn't good. It was probably my poor wording that caused the confusion, sorry.

    I was mostly thinking about a possible way to use it mainly for ''fun'' That is making enemies encumbered to the point where they couldn't move.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    I haven't played SoD, but it's possible that allowing various bonuses to work with the sword would make it too good. It wouldn't be the case in BG2 as there's tons of incredible weapons around already, but for SoD levels it could very well be overpowered if you could add a few extra points of damage per hit (or not, I don't know SoD).

    Anyway, in BG2 there's probably some niche uses but nothing to write home about. Unlikely to matter in any substantial way.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    Allowing the rest of the bonuses (or i should say fixing the bug), except the str bonus would make it ok vs stoneskinned mages in sod, but it would still be fairly useless in bg2.

    The thing is -.you can pick really fancy +3 arrows over it that nail the final sod boss
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Then pick the arrows.

    Though of course those arrows (or the bullets) are not available in BG2. Still, I think you're not losing anything by not having the sword/hammer in BG2.
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