In everyones opinion...what does it take to make a really great rpg?
xLegionx
Member Posts: 197
In my opinion story is by far the number 1 most important thing that makes a great rpg. Not super-realistic Skyrim graphics or super-worked gameplay (even though these factors indeed play a necesary part in any great game) but a good immersive story where players can have the complete freedom to invite whatever roleplaying desires that best fit in with their version of the story. Basically, game designers who give players the right to fully morph the past, present, and future of their story is quite frankly very important in rp because that IS the definition of roleplay.
The whole point of roleplaying is that players take their own personalities and their thoughts or feelings in rl and replace all that with their characters mental attitudes and personality. So how could you fit this into the story? Good fantasy game stories should be no different than reading a book where you walk through the portal of imagination and fantastic wonder. I'd like to look at the past version first where I use fallout as an example. In Fallout you got to start off with your main character as a child and you acted the way you felt like acting with no consequences to yourself except for the ones that you feel in the game. This I thought was about near brilliant as what I mentioned above. Playing your character as a child or being able to participate in some part of his earlier life before the big bang begins is a great way for the player to develop a big connection to his character because it adds to the effects of the present and future which therefore makes it extremely more enjoyable and fun for everyone! Maybe you acted like a jerk as child (lol I know I did because I like playing a kind of a villainous, selfish character) and you treated everyone like crap. After that is when you design your real characters facial appearance and make him look how you envisioned him...like a freaking badass but this comes in a different way in everyone's mind.
Now people in the present will dislike you because you chose to act like a jerk which can also have small impacts on the present and future state of the game. Now the present part is of course where you get to play the story of your character's life. Everything depends on this: your decisions, your actions, who you really are and who you choose to be is what greatly impacts the ending of the story. So since I chose to act like a stupid brat of a child maybe I decide to myself "hmm I feel ashamed of how I acted and want everyone to forgive me for my misbehavior", so you decide to be a good or neutral character at this point. Now you decide to make good decisions but at times maybe you feel the temptation to do a little evil every now and then. This can result in a neutral and chaotic character because you are proving to everyone as well as yourself that you don't fully care about the law 'in your heart" because you enjoy doing a little evil and curing your own temptations when they arise just because it's how your character is and you find great fun and joy when you pretend to be such a character.
Now after you have beaten the story and conquered evil ( or good) what happens now? We'll this can be up to you or up to the game developers. You can continue to live out your life in the rpg world you so enjoy and continue doing good or evil.Or maybe you decide to yourself that this is the end for my character and he gets ambushed by deathclaws at some point, very effectively ending his life. Or in the case to where game developers allowed you to play a past experience of your character they will allow you to play the future of your character as well. They release a whole ton of expansion packs that start out depending on the actions your character made in the main story.
These rp ideas everyone is what I believe in my heart that makes great rp games. Being able to figuratively write out your own story in any way possible is what makes a great roleplaying game imo and game developers whom allow the players to experience these points in their character visually can really bring out the roleplay in fantasy role-playing games.
So I'm curious as to what everyone elses opinion is on what it takes to make a great rpg?
The whole point of roleplaying is that players take their own personalities and their thoughts or feelings in rl and replace all that with their characters mental attitudes and personality. So how could you fit this into the story? Good fantasy game stories should be no different than reading a book where you walk through the portal of imagination and fantastic wonder. I'd like to look at the past version first where I use fallout as an example. In Fallout you got to start off with your main character as a child and you acted the way you felt like acting with no consequences to yourself except for the ones that you feel in the game. This I thought was about near brilliant as what I mentioned above. Playing your character as a child or being able to participate in some part of his earlier life before the big bang begins is a great way for the player to develop a big connection to his character because it adds to the effects of the present and future which therefore makes it extremely more enjoyable and fun for everyone! Maybe you acted like a jerk as child (lol I know I did because I like playing a kind of a villainous, selfish character) and you treated everyone like crap. After that is when you design your real characters facial appearance and make him look how you envisioned him...like a freaking badass but this comes in a different way in everyone's mind.
Now people in the present will dislike you because you chose to act like a jerk which can also have small impacts on the present and future state of the game. Now the present part is of course where you get to play the story of your character's life. Everything depends on this: your decisions, your actions, who you really are and who you choose to be is what greatly impacts the ending of the story. So since I chose to act like a stupid brat of a child maybe I decide to myself "hmm I feel ashamed of how I acted and want everyone to forgive me for my misbehavior", so you decide to be a good or neutral character at this point. Now you decide to make good decisions but at times maybe you feel the temptation to do a little evil every now and then. This can result in a neutral and chaotic character because you are proving to everyone as well as yourself that you don't fully care about the law 'in your heart" because you enjoy doing a little evil and curing your own temptations when they arise just because it's how your character is and you find great fun and joy when you pretend to be such a character.
Now after you have beaten the story and conquered evil ( or good) what happens now? We'll this can be up to you or up to the game developers. You can continue to live out your life in the rpg world you so enjoy and continue doing good or evil.Or maybe you decide to yourself that this is the end for my character and he gets ambushed by deathclaws at some point, very effectively ending his life. Or in the case to where game developers allowed you to play a past experience of your character they will allow you to play the future of your character as well. They release a whole ton of expansion packs that start out depending on the actions your character made in the main story.
These rp ideas everyone is what I believe in my heart that makes great rp games. Being able to figuratively write out your own story in any way possible is what makes a great roleplaying game imo and game developers whom allow the players to experience these points in their character visually can really bring out the roleplay in fantasy role-playing games.
So I'm curious as to what everyone elses opinion is on what it takes to make a great rpg?
2
Comments
- Choice, choice and more choice. Rail roading players in the story and having no choices and alternate paths to complete the main story line is prohibiting and annoying.
- Great story lines. Making yet another cliche good overcomes evil after losing the initial fight is boring and tired.
- Challenge. The game becomes boring and unreplayable when it is a snoozefest.
- Customizable. There will always be elements within a game that players do not like. Programmers need to start making it easier for everyday players to customise just about everything within a game with some time and effort. Happy gamers are always the best customers.
- Variety. This is really just a subset of choice, we want lots of variety in character creation and joinable NPC's if it is party based game. BG2 was a good game but it lacked choice of party members. Made the game very stale very quick for me. Play evil and have the exact members almost every time. Yawn!
Choice
Challenge
Customization
are NOT required in order to make a good rpg.
I don't think you can boil it down to any one set of characteristics.
For me, 2 of the main properties I look for are good, engaging storytelling, and geeky, comlicated statistics to numbercrunch. I imagine it varies from person to person.
Second of all, you are rambling and your thoughts are racing. I hope that you are all right, and that you don't need help. I recognize your thought patterns all too well, and I know intimately the dangers that racing thoughts can signal. (see: bipolar disorder, manic-depressive illness).
Finally, to your topic, vis a vis my opinion of what makes a great rpg:
Story is certainly important. However, customizability is equally important, i.e., the ability to tweak the story arc according to player tastes. There are very few games that actually have enough story branches written to accomodate every player. Usually, the rpg stories railroad the player to exactly the same end, regardless of how the player might get there. The Baldur's Gate games do not escape this problem. Witness the endless complaints from "evil" players that the game does not give them any significant "evil" paths to roleplay. I actually can't think of any games that do have such flexibility.
I also find that memorable, well-developed, npc character stories, personalities, and voice-acting are critical to my enjoyment of any rpg. For me, that is probably the number one characteristic of a game that I will replay again and again over years and years.
As to your psychological theories, I realize that many, many people like to use rpg games as a chance to fully express their darker selves into a world where there are no significant consequences associated with that. However, I believe, spiritually and non-scientifically speaking, that the laws of Karma apply, in every self-expression, no matter where or how you do it. If you would actually be "evil" in an rpg game, then, as far as I'm concerned, you would do the same sorts of things in real life if you thought that you could get away with it, and the Universe will respond accordingly.
That is my irrational, totally unscientific, contrary to my skeptical nature, "spiritual" belief about human thought and imagination. Christianity puts it this way, from the New Testament, attributed to Jesus: "...if you have thought these things in your heart, then you have as much as done them in the eyes of My Father..."
So, for me, the "great" rpg lets me explore the fantasy of "absolute power", and "who would I be, given that power? What would I do?" As a corollary, the realism of the npc's who react to my actions is just as important. The more realistic the npc characters, the more intensely, psychologically important are my choices and reactions in response to their archetypes.
As a student of psychology, I am a Jungian - can you tell? LOL
Don't give in to your Shadow!
In the meantime, I'll say that too much freedom can be a bad thing. Skyrim is a good example of what happens when you give the player too many choices without sufficient incentive to follow the story. Fable 3 is a good example of what happens when you attempt to make every NPC a potential quest-giver.
Too much of any one element is inevitably a bad thing. Choices are important, but if the choices you're given don't mean anything, or come up so often that they cease to be important, you start to forget why you're making them. Quests and sideplots are important, but when a developer sets out to make a ton of quests and storylines, the end result is usually that each of those storylines is sorely lacking in quality.
A good RPG should make you feel like you're making choices while subtly railroading you into a specific track (or one of very few tracks) in the story. Important choices should be far enough apart so that when they come up, you have to think about your decisions. Quests should be thoughtful and deep, not shallow and plentiful.
An in depth world
A good plot
Choice that effects the path that the character takes to achieve the plot
Gameplay, always important for every game. Not "extra new stuff", but solid gameplay.
A game like Lunar has a cheesy story, nothing new in the gameplay area BUT is charming as hell. I love that game, and that's the only thing in particular it has.
When you find a GREAT RPG, you just know the game is pure awesomeness.
Or at least the way most RPGs are marketed nowadays would have you believe that.
Plot, characters, atmosphere, gameplay, voicing, art...
@sandmanCCL: "Cleavage."
Amazing, dude. Just spectacular. xD
The biggest thing, I would say, is the illusion of choice. Or limited choice, to convey the story and provide a unique spice to every playthrough.
An event happens in-game. The party must make a decision, do we go for story-arc 1,2,3,4 or 5? Each one has their own + and -, each one has their own story. Maybe we go to all of them, but I get to decide IF we go to any of them and in what order. Or maybe they're all just sidequests and the real choice has yet to present itself. Either way, it will lead me to the same destination but through a different path. Or a similar path with a different destination (plot twists come to mind here).
I am also a big fan of limited customisation (nothing crazy, Spore-style) and of engaging dialogue. In particular with dialogue and story: problems and events with no discernible "grey" area are my pet-peeve. Too many times now-a-days do I see a question in a game with 3 options:
1. Goodie-Two-Shoes-Charity-Reply
2. Funny-guy-reply
3. Bad-guy-reply.
From what I know of Planescape:Torment it was fantastic at giving these morally ambiguous dilemmas.
Apart from that?... Interesting NPC's who actually are unique and interact with each other.
RAGA-FRAGGA-NABBLE-RABBIN-GRAGGLESNAPPER
/Yosemite Sam
If I start being taking seriously will it ruin my forum reputation? Now I'm worried.
That looks like a CD key xDDD
A giant Miniature Space hamster ...
Seriously,
Having a member of the Zents and Harper in your party *cringe*
Have a dev team with the intimate knowldge of the setting in BG's case Forgotten Realms and theTime of Troubles.
Having script writers with a sense of humor.
NWN I played for many years it was a great min / maxing, number crunching, hack and slash game however it really missed the mark on the rpg aspect of things that made BG my all time favourite RPG which many players I have concersed with have made the same observation.
I wish I could still play BG..... my PC can not play it anymore
Oh. Let me sit in the corner with my huge depression.
Even when you become super human at the end of the series, you are still basically just a pawn in the schemings of mysterious, magical and divine beings.
Some good plot elements, but with the freedom to let each party have its own adventure. Basically what BG is - a campaign sandbox. The Starflight PC game, the Ultima games, BG, GTA....all of them good long campaigns with a good backstory, some kind of leveling and aquiring of cool stuff, and freedom of exploration.
I also think a highly dangerous world is probably an essential element. "Evil round every corner...."
Monsters that are not always leveled to the PC.