I don't know how many of you have actually let the whole Aerie/Haer'dalis thing play out to conclusion, but Aerie will leave the party because Haer'dalis gets bored of the relationship(you know, because he is a complete dirt bag) and breaks up with her. So I really don't see how this could be considered the natural party. The only ones I would consider is Yoshimo/Imoen, Minsc and Jaheira...and Sarevok in ToB. And really, if you play a female protagonist, you were stuck with Anomen in the base game. So the developers intended the "natural" party for female charname to include Anomen. Doesn't that just make you all feel sick to your stomachs?
Uh, no. Aerie doesn't leave the party if she romances HD and they break up. The only time she would leave the party is if the male PC and HD fight over her. She leaves with HD because she thinks men fighting over her is dumb. But if she's actively in a romance with HD, she is the one who breaks it off and they both remain in the party. They even have some ToB romance dialogues in case they didn't manage to break up in SoA but they stay in friendly terms regardless.
I have thought (and written about this) for years, but nowadays I'm more interested in how the cannon party works if CHARNAME is female!
Jaheira, Minsc and Yoshimo/Imoen is a given. Aerie perhaps as well as she becomes Minsc's witch, but since all the romance dialogue is gone if CHARNAME is femane, she is a less interesting character. Perhaps replace her with Anomen as he is, sadly, the only romance available in vanilla.
What about that 6th member, before ToB? Perhaps Keldorn is a nice option and has some interesting interactions with Anomen. Also he is the only (?) NPC to leave by his own, opening space for Mr. ToB.
Who else?
Edit: And, now that we're on the subject, what class would a female CHARNAME be? Without Aerie in the group, and since it will take half the game to get Imoen back, a magic wielder seems like the best option, perhaps…
Bring Mazzy along instead of Keldorn she might be more fun but with Jaheria and Misnc you have enough melee power there really is no need for Keldorn or another melee fighter.
But if you wanted another melee fighter Mazzy is a bit more flexible then Keldorn - yes you don't get a paladin but you do get a unique almost paladin halfling who can grandmaster in bows.
I'd say bring Aerie along to cover mage power and your PC can be whatever class you want.
I dislike the idea of the "canon" party being given any sort of credence.
There should be dialog options at least for those who never traveled with any of the initial NPC in Chateau Irenicus for BG players. Especially for Minsc/Dynaheir considering there is a quest to kill D. and Minsc attacks you if you refuse to help him.
How can there even be a "canon" party when the game has already given the option of killing those NPC and/or they are killed during the course of your playthrough?
I dislike the idea of the "canon" party being given any sort of credence.
There should be dialog options at least for those who never traveled with any of the initial NPC in Chateau Irenicus for BG players. Especially for Minsc/Dynaheir considering there is a quest to kill D. and Minsc attacks you if you refuse to help him.
How can there even be a "canon" party when the game has already given the option of killing those NPC and/or they are killed during the course of your playthrough?
Not necessarilly "canon" but..
CHARNAME Jaheira (My husband's dead, btw im single now) Minsc (Fan favourite's back!) Yoshimo (Athkatla guide and Imoen's temp) Aerie (Minsc's new witch) NPC-you-meet-on-your-way-to-stronghold-quest
I would say there is definitely a strong argument for a cannon party in BG1 given the choices for NPCs in BG2 - but BG2 is a little more hazy as even the less popular NPCs (or the ones you find laterish in the game) all have a fair amount of content tied to them.
My only real guess at anything is it's assumed the player is *not* a paladin - as they regularly talk with evil NPCs as if they traveled together for at least a period of time (in regards to BG1 and also in the pocket plane in ToB), and that seems to be pretty questionable to me - since paladinials would likely be at least somewhat cautious about letting evil folks (detect evil) join with them in BG1 given the constant assassination attempts and traumatic experience right off the bat.
@UnderstandMouseMagic - the very purpose of establishing a plot canon is to establish what went down in a multi-choice scenario. It is done so the writers/developers can say "this is what we're working with; this is what happened", not for the sake of the audience.
The first four are mostly self-explanatory. Aerie is the first NPC you run into and considering that the story assumes a good party in Baldur's Gate I, she's a good fit. She's versatile, has great power potential, and she can become Minsc's witch. The reason Keldorn takes the last spot for me would be the fact that your number one enemy in Shadows of Amn is a very powerful wizard and Keldorn is an experienced inquisitor. If I am truly playing the story as though it's a real and frightening world where death is to be found behind every corner and powerful wizards are a force be reckoned with, I would never not take Keldorn. If I could I would even take him with an evil charname and I would put up with his attitude if I was quite certain that he'd be a great asset in the battle with Irenicus. He can also be a mentor to Anomen (if you take Anomen instead of Aerie as a female charname). Also he can go back to his family after Irenicus is gone and you can pick up Sarevok. Perfect
Honestly, I feel like Viconia is the most natural 5th.
- You can pick her up extremely early in BG, though if you follow the quest leads you may not get her until investigating the Bandits (who does that though? not me lol) - Despite her nature she is pretty loyal to the bhaalspawn. - There are no pure clerics in the typical canon party set up. Aerie doesn't really come into her own until ToB, but I might be tainted by my SCS mileage. - If she is romanced, she see's the pretty widest arc of character development. Jaheira feels the same at the end of her romance in TOB as she did near the beginning. Aerie see's some development, too. - She has a LOT of input in the Underdark, from a roleplaying perspective, utterly invaluable. - She does, however, leave at reputation 20, but dealing with the that without murdering people is pretty simple.
This got me thinking about the least likely cannon npcs. Cernd? Nalia? Keldorn (like many I can't keep him from home for long though on my first play through I accidentally for the bad ending )? I think you have to take Imo, Jahz, Minsc as absolutely cannon, with Aerie and Viccy / Anomen as the 5th (though that it a tonne of healers, maybe the fifth is Sarevok)
This got me thinking about the least likely cannon npcs. Cernd? Nalia? Keldorn (like many I can't keep him from home for long though on my first play through I accidentally for the bad ending )? I think you have to take Imo, Jahz, Minsc as absolutely cannon, with Aerie and Viccy / Anomen as the 5th (though that it a tonne of healers, maybe the fifth is Sarevok)
I understand why Bio made a canon party in BG1 to import into the first dungeon of BG2, but I would prefer not to think of any party as canon. Imoen, Jaheira and Khalid make sense, but no other NPCs from BG1 are directly linked to the Bhaalspawn story.
I used to keep Jaheira and Minsc in my BG2 parties every playthrough, but now I generally drop them in Chapter 2. I don't like feeling forced to have characters when they're not my favorite of the available options. I headcanon that only Charname and Imoen were captured by Irenicus.
Isn't the cannon party of BG I established by inference on the story in BGII? We know how BGI "must have" ended by the way BGII begins. In that vein, ToB allowing any companion to be summoned says there is no cannon SoA party, or even that the protagonist adventured with all of them for a time. (BTW, rotating party members ensures that CHARNAME has the most XP, helping to ensure that he is the biggest and baddest; which works especially well for a evil char.)
Vbibbi - that depends on whether you count Dynaheir & Minsc having travelled all the way from Rashemen to investigate the Bhaalspawn prophecy as "directly linked' or not, I guess.
My party tends to look like this, +/- a character here or there depending on what my PC is
Why no Minsc? I've accidentally offended him in Irenicus' dungeon and decided he was too crazy to travel with me. This was confirmed when he chunked Edwin on a subsequent run.
Vbibbi - that depends on whether you count Dynaheir & Minsc having travelled all the way from Rashemen to investigate the Bhaalspawn prophecy as "directly linked' or not, I guess.
True, but there is no way that Charname can know this when meeting Minsc, or even when first rescuing Dynaheir. If we rescued her and then parted ways, only for the pair to show up on Candlekeep in Chapter 6 after we learn of our heritage, then I would consider them more directly connected to the plot.
But Minsc being in BG2 feels to me like he was just one of the most popular NPCs so they decided to include him again. If he and Dynaheir had been integral to the Bhaalspawn plot, I think she would have survived Irenicus' dungeon.
The idea that Minsc is "cannon" is ridiculous considering he attacks you if you don't agree to his quest. And attacks you if you take too long to complete it if you have taken him, goes berserk when you meet the gnoll and attacks the party afterwards.
An inexperienced Charname (rp wise) would never entertain the idea of having somebody so dangerous in the party. Neither would Jaheira/Khalid allow it as they are presented as "guardians".
Mind you, jaheira/Khalid even contemplating taking the inexperienced ward of their dead friend into the Nashkel Mines to investigate is absurd as well. Once the bounty hunters start appearing, they should drop everything and get you the hell away from the area.
Looking at the game from a first playthrough, no meta knowledge RP POV, cannon IMO should be, NPC's who aren't following their own agendas who you meet randomly and who don't endanger you knowingly.
It is interesting to me that the saved party for TotSC upon installation on the original BG is--
PC Imoen Jaheira Minsc Viconia Edwin
These are also the only party members from BG1 that re-enter your party in BG2. It is my opinion that this is the canon party, although this is made somewhat impossible by the Minsc-Edwin conflict. On the other hand, the death of one of them makes a fine opportunity for Sarevok to join your party - he replaces Edwin as an Evil NPC, or Minsc as a melee PC (and he can even replace Minsc as a Good-aligned party member if you play your cards right!).
My first playthrough 15 years ago was: 1. PC fighter 2. Minsc 3. Jaheira 4. Yoshimo (later replaced with Imoen whom I put in the second place of the formation because she was there during Chateau Irenicus) 5. Aerie (cute, lawful good, soon encountered, plus she becomes Minsc's witch) 6. Nalia (good character, replacing Imoen's role in the beginning, tied to CHARNAME's stronghold)
I temporarily dropped Nalia for rotation purposes when I wanted to play other side quests, but other characters remained in the party only for doing their quests, then I kicked them out bringing back Nalia. And I repeated this playthrough I think 1 or 2 times with the very same characters. No Sarevok in ToB.
Two years ago I played again with a similar party. But I instead played with an undead hunter and replaced Aerie and Nalia with Viconia (she already knew CHARNAME, possible redemption, fitting well the role of a cleric) and Valygar (he already knew Suna, besides I prefer tanking characters). This time I played with Sarevok, replacing Valygar. Actually, Valygar wasn't the true 6th member, just the one that I finally picked up before setting sail to Spellhold.
I think that the 5th spot might be well suitable for Aerie or Viconia for the reasons already expressed. The 6th spot is free for character rotation, but I wouldn't consider wrong bringing both Aerie and Viconia, or bringing a character tied to your stronghold. IMHO Keldorn can stay, his last mission is simply to aid CHARNAME against Irenicus, then his promise is fulfilled and he can go back to his family.
Oh, anyway, everbody recruit who you want, don't mind.
The canon protagonist is a human fighter, if I remember correctly. That would make Nalia a good candidate for a caonon party, given how she ties into the stronghold quest for the fighter class.
But that's canon based on the horrible novelizations, right? I think most fans have disavowed those books and don't consider them in any way representative of their Charname.
Unless Beamdog makes BG3, and state which heroes where part of the last chapter, there really is no absolute truth, and we can only speculate.
Personally i belive most fans consider Jaheira, Minsc, Imoen and Aerie as the core party for SoA. The first three because of their ties to Gorions ward, and Aerie because Minsc needs a new witch, and also because the circus quest is available from start, which leaves one spot for Big S. However these are just opinions.
If you consider A. Philips as canon (which he is, whether we like it or not) then only Imoen, Jaheira and Big S. are considered canon party members.
Personally i would consider the last one (team) canon, with Minsc also added to the party. This leaves us with one empty slot. Now most fans would probably argue Aerie should get that spot, since she is his (Minsc's) witch, however i would say that Neera could and probably is more suited to be Minsc witch, since Minsc consider her as such (in Legends of BG comic), which implicitely suggest that she was his witch in BG2 (EE anyway). However depending on race, gender, class, and alignment of the protaganist, pretty much every NPC is a potential, and natural party member of Gorions Ward. It's your game, and your choice to choose.
Comments
Jaheira, Minsc and Yoshimo/Imoen is a given. Aerie perhaps as well as she becomes Minsc's witch, but since all the romance dialogue is gone if CHARNAME is femane, she is a less interesting character. Perhaps replace her with Anomen as he is, sadly, the only romance available in vanilla.
So,
1. PC
2. Jaheira
3. Minsc
4. Yoshimo/Imoen
5. Anomen
6. ?
What about that 6th member, before ToB? Perhaps Keldorn is a nice option and has some interesting interactions with Anomen. Also he is the only (?) NPC to leave by his own, opening space for Mr. ToB.
Who else?
Edit: And, now that we're on the subject, what class would a female CHARNAME be? Without Aerie in the group, and since it will take half the game to get Imoen back, a magic wielder seems like the best option, perhaps…
But if you wanted another melee fighter Mazzy is a bit more flexible then Keldorn - yes you don't get a paladin but you do get a unique almost paladin halfling who can grandmaster in bows.
I'd say bring Aerie along to cover mage power and your PC can be whatever class you want.
There should be dialog options at least for those who never traveled with any of the initial NPC in Chateau Irenicus for BG players.
Especially for Minsc/Dynaheir considering there is a quest to kill D. and Minsc attacks you if you refuse to help him.
How can there even be a "canon" party when the game has already given the option of killing those NPC and/or they are killed during the course of your playthrough?
CHARNAME
Jaheira (My husband's dead, btw im single now)
Minsc (Fan favourite's back!)
Yoshimo (Athkatla guide and Imoen's temp)
Aerie (Minsc's new witch)
NPC-you-meet-on-your-way-to-stronghold-quest
Is kinda convenient..
My only real guess at anything is it's assumed the player is *not* a paladin - as they regularly talk with evil NPCs as if they traveled together for at least a period of time (in regards to BG1 and also in the pocket plane in ToB), and that seems to be pretty questionable to me - since paladinials would likely be at least somewhat cautious about letting evil folks (detect evil) join with them in BG1 given the constant assassination attempts and traumatic experience right off the bat.
For me personally though the canon party for BG II is:
- Charname
- Jaheira
- Minsc
- Imoen (Yoshimo)
- Aerie
- Keldorn
The first four are mostly self-explanatory.
Aerie is the first NPC you run into and considering that the story assumes a good party in Baldur's Gate I, she's a good fit. She's versatile, has great power potential, and she can become Minsc's witch.
The reason Keldorn takes the last spot for me would be the fact that your number one enemy in Shadows of Amn is a very powerful wizard and Keldorn is an experienced inquisitor. If I am truly playing the story as though it's a real and frightening world where death is to be found behind every corner and powerful wizards are a force be reckoned with, I would never not take Keldorn. If I could I would even take him with an evil charname and I would put up with his attitude if I was quite certain that he'd be a great asset in the battle with Irenicus. He can also be a mentor to Anomen (if you take Anomen instead of Aerie as a female charname).
Also he can go back to his family after Irenicus is gone and you can pick up Sarevok. Perfect
- You can pick her up extremely early in BG, though if you follow the quest leads you may not get her until investigating the Bandits (who does that though? not me lol)
- Despite her nature she is pretty loyal to the bhaalspawn.
- There are no pure clerics in the typical canon party set up. Aerie doesn't really come into her own until ToB, but I might be tainted by my SCS mileage.
- If she is romanced, she see's the pretty widest arc of character development. Jaheira feels the same at the end of her romance in TOB as she did near the beginning. Aerie see's some development, too.
- She has a LOT of input in the Underdark, from a roleplaying perspective, utterly invaluable.
- She does, however, leave at reputation 20, but dealing with the that without murdering people is pretty simple.
but really the 6th member is the real issue when it comes to bg2.
- Charname
- Jaheira
- Minsc
- Imoen (Yoshimo)
- Aerie
you get all of these as soon as you start chapter 2. really seravok may be intended to be the final character as he is important plot wise.
I understand why Bio made a canon party in BG1 to import into the first dungeon of BG2, but I would prefer not to think of any party as canon. Imoen, Jaheira and Khalid make sense, but no other NPCs from BG1 are directly linked to the Bhaalspawn story.
I used to keep Jaheira and Minsc in my BG2 parties every playthrough, but now I generally drop them in Chapter 2. I don't like feeling forced to have characters when they're not my favorite of the available options. I headcanon that only Charname and Imoen were captured by Irenicus.
"Is kinda convenient"
I appreciate the writers had to have an outline/template, but then the party should be called the "convenient" or "writers" party, not "canon".
By naming the party "canon" it implys a legitimacy to that party that conflicts with the free choices that the game has given the player.
It's nitpicking I know, but annoying to players who dislike having any/some of them for roleplaying reasons.
Edwin
Sarevok
Yoshimo -> Imoen
Jan Jansen
My party tends to look like this, +/- a character here or there depending on what my PC is
Why no Minsc? I've accidentally offended him in Irenicus' dungeon and decided he was too crazy to travel with me. This was confirmed when he chunked Edwin on a subsequent run.
3. Imoen / Yoshimo / Nalia
4. Minsc / Keldorn (SoA) -> Sarevok (ToB)
5. Aerie / Anomen / Viconia
6. Edwin / Haer'Dalis
But Minsc being in BG2 feels to me like he was just one of the most popular NPCs so they decided to include him again. If he and Dynaheir had been integral to the Bhaalspawn plot, I think she would have survived Irenicus' dungeon.
I agree with you.
The idea that Minsc is "cannon" is ridiculous considering he attacks you if you don't agree to his quest. And attacks you if you take too long to complete it if you have taken him, goes berserk when you meet the gnoll and attacks the party afterwards.
An inexperienced Charname (rp wise) would never entertain the idea of having somebody so dangerous in the party. Neither would Jaheira/Khalid allow it as they are presented as "guardians".
Mind you, jaheira/Khalid even contemplating taking the inexperienced ward of their dead friend into the Nashkel Mines to investigate is absurd as well. Once the bounty hunters start appearing, they should drop everything and get you the hell away from the area.
Looking at the game from a first playthrough, no meta knowledge RP POV, cannon IMO should be, NPC's who aren't following their own agendas who you meet randomly and who don't endanger you knowingly.
PC
Imoen
Jaheira
Minsc
Viconia
Edwin
These are also the only party members from BG1 that re-enter your party in BG2. It is my opinion that this is the canon party, although this is made somewhat impossible by the Minsc-Edwin conflict. On the other hand, the death of one of them makes a fine opportunity for Sarevok to join your party - he replaces Edwin as an Evil NPC, or Minsc as a melee PC (and he can even replace Minsc as a Good-aligned party member if you play your cards right!).
1. PC fighter
2. Minsc
3. Jaheira
4. Yoshimo (later replaced with Imoen whom I put in the second place of the formation because she was there during Chateau Irenicus)
5. Aerie (cute, lawful good, soon encountered, plus she becomes Minsc's witch)
6. Nalia (good character, replacing Imoen's role in the beginning, tied to CHARNAME's stronghold)
I temporarily dropped Nalia for rotation purposes when I wanted to play other side quests, but other characters remained in the party only for doing their quests, then I kicked them out bringing back Nalia.
And I repeated this playthrough I think 1 or 2 times with the very same characters. No Sarevok in ToB.
Two years ago I played again with a similar party. But I instead played with an undead hunter and replaced Aerie and Nalia with Viconia (she already knew CHARNAME, possible redemption, fitting well the role of a cleric) and Valygar (he already knew Suna, besides I prefer tanking characters). This time I played with Sarevok, replacing Valygar. Actually, Valygar wasn't the true 6th member, just the one that I finally picked up before setting sail to Spellhold.
I think that the 5th spot might be well suitable for Aerie or Viconia for the reasons already expressed. The 6th spot is free for character rotation, but I wouldn't consider wrong bringing both Aerie and Viconia, or bringing a character tied to your stronghold. IMHO Keldorn can stay, his last mission is simply to aid CHARNAME against Irenicus, then his promise is fulfilled and he can go back to his family.
Oh, anyway, everbody recruit who you want, don't mind.
Personally i belive most fans consider Jaheira, Minsc, Imoen and Aerie as the core party for SoA. The first three because of their ties to Gorions ward, and Aerie because Minsc needs a new witch, and also because the circus quest is available from start, which leaves one spot for Big S. However these are just opinions.
If you consider A. Philips as canon (which he is, whether we like it or not) then only Imoen, Jaheira and Big S. are considered canon party members.
Personally i would consider the last one (team) canon, with Minsc also added to the party. This leaves us with one empty slot. Now most fans would probably argue Aerie should get that spot, since she is his (Minsc's) witch, however i would say that Neera could and probably is more suited to be Minsc witch, since Minsc consider her as such (in Legends of BG comic), which implicitely suggest that she was his witch in BG2 (EE anyway). However depending on race, gender, class, and alignment of the protaganist, pretty much every NPC is a potential, and natural party member of Gorions Ward. It's your game, and your choice to choose.