Hm, the existing game content seems to use all kinds of verbs ("construct", "conjure", "build", "create", "assemble"...):
Golem Manual (TOME01):
This amazing tome contains theoretical musings on the construction and control of golems. It also explains how to use the manual to temporarily conjure a servant of assembled flesh which will obey the creator without question. One must have a minimum Intelligence of 16 to understand the contents.
Clay Golem Manual (TOME02):
"The restored page explains how to use the manual to temporarily conjure a servant of molded clay which will obey the creator without question. The user needs a minimum Intelligence of 16 to understand the contents."
Journal entry from the Imnesvale quest:
Find mimic's blood for Jermien the Cowled Wizard
I must find some mimic's blood for the Cowled Wizard, Jermien, for the juggernaut golem he is building in the village of Imnesvale.
Info point in Planar Sphere:
This appears to be a control panel relating to the creation of an iron golem. A partially completed golem stands lifeless in the tube above the panel. The golem is missing an arm and a head.
Journal entry from the Planar Sphere quest:
Inside the planar sphere
It appears I have successfully assembled a golem of sorts, which has run off to do battle with the nearby beholder.
I think I like "build" and "construct" best, as it makes it clear that you're using actual materials to put it together, not just using magic to call it into existence.
("craft" would also make that clear, but it sounds too 'gamey' to me, i.e. not like something that a character would do in-game but rather what one would refer to a game mechanic from the other side of the fourth wall.)
I was leaning towards "Construct Golem" or "Craft Golem" as well. I'll probably go with "Construct Golem". I would use "crafting" for manufacturing less complex items.
"Conjure" and "assemble" don't fit either as they only describe parts of the whole golem creation process. Unlike the Golem Manual from WK which summons a golem from some place (or out of thin air) for a limited span of time the "Construct Golem" ability will allow you to create a servant for life (or until destroyed).
I was leaning towards "Construct Golem" or "Craft Golem" as well. I'll probably go with "Construct Golem". I would use "crafting" for manufacturing less complex items.
"Conjure" and "assemble" don't fit either as they only describe parts of the whole golem creation process. Unlike the Golem Manual from WK which summons a golem from some place (or out of thin air) for a limited span of time the "Construct Golem" ability will allow you to create a servant for life (or until destroyed).
Are you going to offer some way to repair the golems? As they get damaged will they become less effective for movement and attacks and damage?
That's a good question. Unfortunately the spell system in BG1/BG2 doesn't strictly follow 2e rules, so you can easily "repair" your golems with healing spells (unlike in IWD). A repair ability would just be more work for me without any real benefit.
It's also difficult to simulate performance degradation based on health with the game engine. That's why creatures with only 1 HP left are always as effective as fully healed. Maybe I can come up with something in this regard.
I am a fan of this idea of expanded golem creation - more fun for those who like magic-users. If you have traveling golems I do think it should be much more difficult to create/maintain them. Some suggestions for balancing:
1. You can only create golems if you have a laboratory. In other words, you need to physically be in a certain area to even attempt building a golem. Suggestions for other games: lich outpost in SoD, planar sphere in SoA, pocket plane in ToB. In BG1 you might be even more limited since the player character will not be of a sufficient level. Perhaps you have to "rent" some lab space in the Sorcerous Sundries or something? 2. Golem building takes a few days, which is simulated in cutscene mode with a FadeToBlack() AdvanceTime() FadeFromBlack(). Obviously there should be no enemies existing in the current area. 3. For less powerful versions you need a limited wish scroll or a wish spell memorized which are expended. For more powerful options, a wish spell or wish scroll is required. 4. Golems may not be healed by normal cure wounds/heal spells but the 7th level regenerate spell works on them and perhaps the (limited) wish spells. Alternatively, you need to expend gold to heal them or patch a specific spell to use targetted effects - opcodes 177 and 326 come to mind.
That's some great suggestions. Now that it's possible for golems to travel with the party I have to revise the whole balancing system anyway.
Using a laboratory sounds reasonable. Constructing the physical shell of the golem should take a whole day or two. The final enchanting process would be similar to summoning an elemental. The caster would enter a mental battle with the conjured spirit for a round or two. There would be a small chance that the golem breaks free and turn on the caster for a couple of rounds before it is possible to bring it back under control.
A wish spell is already needed to turn iron into adamantine for the more powerful golem types. I'll probably add a shady merchant somewhere too, who may turn your iron into adamantine for an outrageously high fee.
The healing issue is probably more difficult to implement. I could make the golems immune to the games' vanilla healing spells, but I would miss healing spells added by mods. Alternatively I could make them immune to the healing opcode itself and only allow regeneration spells.
Expanding on the laboratory locations idea a bit...
For the low level golems, perhaps you could pay Thalantyr rent to use High Hedge as your golem building lab. Then once you get access to Baldur's Gate, you can also pay rent to Halbazzer Drin to use Sorcerous Sundries' upstairs area as your lab.
In SoD, the problem is that suitable places for golem building labs become inaccessable after some point and you cannot return to them, such as Sorcerous Sundries and the Coldhearth Lich's dungeon. The Coalition Camp isn't exactly suitable for building a golem, but it's the last "home base" in SoD before the siege.
In BG2, the most obvious golem lab is the Planar Sphere. Other places may include Deirex's Tower and Watcher's Keep level 2. In ToB there is the pocket plane, of course, and perhaps Odameron the lich's home in Sendai's enclave.
The healing issue is probably more difficult to implement. I could make the golems immune to the games' vanilla healing spells, but I would miss healing spells added by mods. Alternatively I could make them immune to the healing opcode itself and only allow regeneration spells.
Well, if it makes any difference, I'll be making one of those mods, and i will totally make sure to include compatibility code for this
Honestly I'm not sure any wizard below ~9th level has any business creating golems of any sort in the first place.
You have a point. BG1 is probably too early for being able to construct golems on your own. I should delay it until SoD. You could find the the first golem manual in the starting dungeon and be able to create it either on the second floor of Sorcerous Sundries or later on in the Coldhearth Lich's dungeon. Maybe it could be possible in Dragonspear Castle as well.
I don't see them as too overpowered though. The lesser golem variants are quite weak compared to the regular golems you encounter in the game. What gives them an edge over summons is the ability to follow you across maps, however.
Just thinking out loud here: I imagine BG1 would yield enough experience for arcane spellcasters to create small- to middle-sized homunculus constructs. It also makes more sense to start out small and gradually tackle full-fledged golems later on in the saga.
I don't want to add even more different creatures to the mod, but I could make greater distinctions between regular golems and their lesser counterparts.
I have decided to make golems immune to the healing opcode itself and allow only regeneration effects. For that reason the golem manuals will also teach you the "Repair Golem" ability in addition to "Construct Golem".
The repair process doesn't require any additional components. However, it can only be executed when no enemies are around and will make both caster and golem becoming unresponsive for the whole regeneration process (i.e. a couple of rounds).
(Btw, I have learned some shortcomings of the new effect opcodes during the process. 1. Spells referenced by opcode 326 (Add Effects List) don't support targetting the caster in addition to the specified target. This is different from opcode 177 (Use EFF File) and took me some time to identify the issue and sort it out. 2. Opcode 365 (Make unselectable) doesn't work correctly with timing mode 0. The creatures always toggled between selectable and unselectable states while the effect was active. I had to fall back to the "Pause Target" opcode instead.)
Now I'm stuck and I don't know why. I'm triggering the golem construction process by a short dialog with an invisible helper creature. After making a few selections a cutscene is supposed to start with a fade in/advance time/fade out sequence. Afterwards the dialog should continue where it left for the final enchantments.
Dialog snippet: IF ~~ Golem.Flesh.Regular
SAY ~You start with the construction of the golem body...~
IF ~~ DO ~SetGlobal("GolemType", "LOCALS", 1)
SetGlobal("GolemVariant", "LOCALS", 2)
TakePartyItemNum("a7!body", 1)
DestroyItem("a7!body")
StartCutSceneMode()
StartCutScene("a7!ct02")~ EXIT
END
Cutscene: IF
True()
THEN
RESPONSE #100
CutSceneId("a7!smdlg") // script name of the helper creature
ClearAllActions()
FadeToColor([30.0],0)
Wait(2)
AdvanceTime(7200)
FadeFromColor([30.0],0)
Wait(2)
StartDialogueNoSet(LastSummonerOf(Myself))
END
For some reason I'm stuck in cutscene mode without the cutscene being processed at all (and because of a bug I can only close the game via task manager). Does anyone have an idea what went wrong?
I know absolutely nothing about cutscenes, but is the cutscene script named exactly: a7!ct02? Is the script name of the 'helper' exactly: a7!smdlg? Is there anything weird with a7!smdlg?
After a lot of testing I was able get it to work when I made the helper creature global before starting the dialog. But that's not a solution as the baldur.gam will be swamped with helper creature entries eventually (which is bad). There must be another way.
Edit: I have finally found a way to make it work, although in a hackish way. I had to avoid using the script name of the summoned creature directly. It was also needed to manually teleport the creature back to the summoner or it would be placed into the top left corner of the map.
IF
True()
THEN
RESPONSE #100
CutSceneId(Myself) // don't use script name directly!
ClearAllActions()
FadeToColor([30.0],0)
Wait(2)
AdvanceTime(7200)
JumpToObject(LastSummonerOf(Myself)) // creature is located at top-left corner of map for some reason
FadeFromColor([30.0],0)
Wait(2)
StartDialogueNoSet(LastSummonerOf(Myself))
END
That's surely a bug or quirk of the game engine.
This sounds awesome and seeing how cool Afaaq is, i'm just impatient.
I always felt like the Planar Sphere was lackluster for a mage, so it'd be a great place to make golems maybe you could allow the player to drop the golems at the planar sphere and have them wander the sphere if they're not following the party. It would improve the great mage fantasy I think.
This could be combined with a teleportation item to allow the user to teleport the golem back to the sphere.
As an alternative for players without the sphere, there's also the mage who makes a golem in his house at imnesvale, his house could be used as an alternative with a few restrictions. (no more than X golems at once)
The golem summoning book could become a way to summon one of your previously created golems too.
Those are just some ideas. About balance, I honestly doubt it's possible to balance any kind of summon with invulnerability to a number of effects.
Another place where golems can be created IMO is the second level of the watcher's keep once the player unlocks the third level and defeats the chromatic demon. I actually prefer the idea of not having the golems automatically follow you especially in cases where your party is teleported but allowing the golem summoning book to teleport one/all of the golems or having some other special item do it for you.
Monstrous Compendium Volume 1 has a detailed description on how the 4 basic golems are completed. For example, Flesh Golems can be created by wizards of at least level 14. The material components necessary to construct Flesh Golems are: 6 humanoid bodies and 40 000 gold pieces. The necessary spells are: wish, polymorph any object, geas, protection from normal missiles, and strength. Clay golems can only be animated by lawful good priests of 17th level or more.
I always felt like the Planar Sphere was lackluster for a mage, so it'd be a great place to make golems maybe you could allow the player to drop the golems at the planar sphere and have them wander the sphere if they're not following the party. It would improve the great mage fantasy I think.
This could be combined with a teleportation item to allow the user to teleport the golem back to the sphere.
That's a good idea and not terribly difficult to implement. I don't plan to add the teleportation option though. It would feel too cheesy to me.
I actually prefer the idea of not having the golems automatically follow you especially in cases where your party is teleported...
Teleporting is not an issue on a technical level. That's automatically taken care of by the game engine. The only instance where non-party companions may not be fully supported are cutscenes where party members walk from one point to another. I don't think its wrong from a roleplaying standpoint either. Golems are made to execute the commands of their master unconditionally, which also includes following the master.
I looked around and found some extensive descriptions of 2e golems. The requirements for most golems are pretty hefty (but that's also the case for p&p enchantments and spells in general). I'll implement it in a more simplified way without requiring dozens of spells and components (as outlined in my first post). The level requirement will be updated however, so that it's more suitable for SoD and BG2 characters. That Clay Golem can only be created by LG priests is unusual, but I'll probably not implement that aspect or I would have to find locations for clerics as well.
Btw, there are also Lightning Golems described in 2e sources. Maybe I could implement them as well.
That Clay Golem can only be created by LG priests is unusual, but I'll probably not implement that aspect or I would have to find locations for clerics as well.
That's one of those fun 2e references to folklore, in this case Joseph the Clay Golem created by a Jewish Rabbi.
I imagine clerics could make clay, maybe even stone golems, possibly at a lower level than arcane casters, but at the cost of not being able to create other types of golems.
@argent77 there are also several types of golems in D&D/FR 3ed sourcebooks:
Monster Manual 2
Stained glass golem
Brass golem
Dragonflesh golem
Monsters of Faerun
Ruby golem
Emerald golem
Diamond golem
Brass golems resembles minotaurs, so the minotaur avatar with different color palette should be perfect. Gemstone golems would be more tricky to do, though.
Yeah, the 2e Monstrous Compendium lists all kinds of golems and golem-like creatures. There are also maggot golems (sounds intriguing), amber golems, skeleton golem (which are apparently different from bone golems), mud golems, rock golems, silver golems, and even "drolems" (which are golems shaped like dragons).
I want to limit it to a few selected types though. By now I have six conventional golem types in lesser, regular, greater and perfect variants each, and five exotic types. I don't want to add more than one or two exotic golems to the list.
Btw, the Burning Man you're encountering in ToB is a golem as well. I always assumed it to be just another fire elemental type.
I want to limit it to a few selected types though. By now I have six conventional golem types in lesser, regular, greater and perfect variants each, and five exotic types. I don't want to add more than one or two exotic golems to the list.
That is good. I was going to say that all these suggestions for other golem types would increase the scope of this mod too much. I like options too, but I'd also like this mod to actually get finished first, because I'm honestly excited for it.
Also, a question: the larger golems' maneuverability is obviously limited in tight spaces like dungeons and interior areas. Will there be a way to get them past these obstacles and get them "unstuck" without having to use Ctrl+J?
Comments
Golem Manual (TOME01):
Clay Golem Manual (TOME02):
Journal entry from the Imnesvale quest:
I must find some mimic's blood for the Cowled Wizard, Jermien, for the juggernaut golem he is building in the village of Imnesvale.
Info point in Planar Sphere:
Journal entry from the Planar Sphere quest:
It appears I have successfully assembled a golem of sorts, which has run off to do battle with the nearby beholder.
I think I like "build" and "construct" best, as it makes it clear that you're using actual materials to put it together, not just using magic to call it into existence.
("craft" would also make that clear, but it sounds too 'gamey' to me, i.e. not like something that a character would do in-game but rather what one would refer to a game mechanic from the other side of the fourth wall.)
"Conjure" and "assemble" don't fit either as they only describe parts of the whole golem creation process. Unlike the Golem Manual from WK which summons a golem from some place (or out of thin air) for a limited span of time the "Construct Golem" ability will allow you to create a servant for life (or until destroyed).
It's also difficult to simulate performance degradation based on health with the game engine. That's why creatures with only 1 HP left are always as effective as fully healed. Maybe I can come up with something in this regard.
1. You can only create golems if you have a laboratory. In other words, you need to physically be in a certain area to even attempt building a golem. Suggestions for other games: lich outpost in SoD, planar sphere in SoA, pocket plane in ToB. In BG1 you might be even more limited since the player character will not be of a sufficient level. Perhaps you have to "rent" some lab space in the Sorcerous Sundries or something?
2. Golem building takes a few days, which is simulated in cutscene mode with a FadeToBlack() AdvanceTime() FadeFromBlack(). Obviously there should be no enemies existing in the current area.
3. For less powerful versions you need a limited wish scroll or a wish spell memorized which are expended. For more powerful options, a wish spell or wish scroll is required.
4. Golems may not be healed by normal cure wounds/heal spells but the 7th level regenerate spell works on them and perhaps the (limited) wish spells. Alternatively, you need to expend gold to heal them or patch a specific spell to use targetted effects - opcodes 177 and 326 come to mind.
Using a laboratory sounds reasonable. Constructing the physical shell of the golem should take a whole day or two. The final enchanting process would be similar to summoning an elemental. The caster would enter a mental battle with the conjured spirit for a round or two. There would be a small chance that the golem breaks free and turn on the caster for a couple of rounds before it is possible to bring it back under control.
A wish spell is already needed to turn iron into adamantine for the more powerful golem types. I'll probably add a shady merchant somewhere too, who may turn your iron into adamantine for an outrageously high fee.
The healing issue is probably more difficult to implement. I could make the golems immune to the games' vanilla healing spells, but I would miss healing spells added by mods. Alternatively I could make them immune to the healing opcode itself and only allow regeneration spells.
For the low level golems, perhaps you could pay Thalantyr rent to use High Hedge as your golem building lab. Then once you get access to Baldur's Gate, you can also pay rent to Halbazzer Drin to use Sorcerous Sundries' upstairs area as your lab.
In SoD, the problem is that suitable places for golem building labs become inaccessable after some point and you cannot return to them, such as Sorcerous Sundries and the Coldhearth Lich's dungeon. The Coalition Camp isn't exactly suitable for building a golem, but it's the last "home base" in SoD before the siege.
In BG2, the most obvious golem lab is the Planar Sphere. Other places may include Deirex's Tower and Watcher's Keep level 2. In ToB there is the pocket plane, of course, and perhaps Odameron the lich's home in Sendai's enclave.
I don't see them as too overpowered though. The lesser golem variants are quite weak compared to the regular golems you encounter in the game. What gives them an edge over summons is the ability to follow you across maps, however.
I imagine BG1 would yield enough experience for arcane spellcasters to create small- to middle-sized homunculus constructs. It also makes more sense to start out small and gradually tackle full-fledged golems later on in the saga.
Something like homunculus (mephit) > homunculus (zombie) > half-flesh golem > flesh golem > .ect
The repair process doesn't require any additional components. However, it can only be executed when no enemies are around and will make both caster and golem becoming unresponsive for the whole regeneration process (i.e. a couple of rounds).
(Btw, I have learned some shortcomings of the new effect opcodes during the process.
1. Spells referenced by opcode 326 (Add Effects List) don't support targetting the caster in addition to the specified target. This is different from opcode 177 (Use EFF File) and took me some time to identify the issue and sort it out.
2. Opcode 365 (Make unselectable) doesn't work correctly with timing mode 0. The creatures always toggled between selectable and unselectable states while the effect was active. I had to fall back to the "Pause Target" opcode instead.)
Dialog snippet:
IF ~~ Golem.Flesh.Regular SAY ~You start with the construction of the golem body...~ IF ~~ DO ~SetGlobal("GolemType", "LOCALS", 1) SetGlobal("GolemVariant", "LOCALS", 2) TakePartyItemNum("a7!body", 1) DestroyItem("a7!body") StartCutSceneMode() StartCutScene("a7!ct02")~ EXIT ENDCutscene:
IF True() THEN RESPONSE #100 CutSceneId("a7!smdlg") // script name of the helper creature ClearAllActions() FadeToColor([30.0],0) Wait(2) AdvanceTime(7200) FadeFromColor([30.0],0) Wait(2) StartDialogueNoSet(LastSummonerOf(Myself)) ENDFor some reason I'm stuck in cutscene mode without the cutscene being processed at all (and because of a bug I can only close the game via task manager). Does anyone have an idea what went wrong?
I wish i could be more help
After a lot of testing I was able get it to work when I made the helper creature global before starting the dialog. But that's not a solution as the baldur.gam will be swamped with helper creature entries eventually (which is bad). There must be another way.
Edit: I have finally found a way to make it work, although in a hackish way. I had to avoid using the script name of the summoned creature directly. It was also needed to manually teleport the creature back to the summoner or it would be placed into the top left corner of the map.
IF True() THEN RESPONSE #100 CutSceneId(Myself) // don't use script name directly! ClearAllActions() FadeToColor([30.0],0) Wait(2) AdvanceTime(7200) JumpToObject(LastSummonerOf(Myself)) // creature is located at top-left corner of map for some reason FadeFromColor([30.0],0) Wait(2) StartDialogueNoSet(LastSummonerOf(Myself)) ENDThat's surely a bug or quirk of the game engine.
I always felt like the Planar Sphere was lackluster for a mage, so it'd be a great place to make golems maybe you could allow the player to drop the golems at the planar sphere and have them wander the sphere if they're not following the party. It would improve the great mage fantasy I think.
This could be combined with a teleportation item to allow the user to teleport the golem back to the sphere.
As an alternative for players without the sphere, there's also the mage who makes a golem in his house at imnesvale, his house could be used as an alternative with a few restrictions. (no more than X golems at once)
The golem summoning book could become a way to summon one of your previously created golems too.
Those are just some ideas. About balance, I honestly doubt it's possible to balance any kind of summon with invulnerability to a number of effects.
Monstrous Compendium Volume 1 has a detailed description on how the 4 basic golems are completed. For example, Flesh Golems can be created by wizards of at least level 14. The material components necessary to construct Flesh Golems are: 6 humanoid bodies and 40 000 gold pieces. The necessary spells are: wish, polymorph any object, geas, protection from normal missiles, and strength. Clay golems can only be animated by lawful good priests of 17th level or more.
Teleporting is not an issue on a technical level. That's automatically taken care of by the game engine. The only instance where non-party companions may not be fully supported are cutscenes where party members walk from one point to another. I don't think its wrong from a roleplaying standpoint either. Golems are made to execute the commands of their master unconditionally, which also includes following the master.
I looked around and found some extensive descriptions of 2e golems. The requirements for most golems are pretty hefty (but that's also the case for p&p enchantments and spells in general). I'll implement it in a more simplified way without requiring dozens of spells and components (as outlined in my first post). The level requirement will be updated however, so that it's more suitable for SoD and BG2 characters. That Clay Golem can only be created by LG priests is unusual, but I'll probably not implement that aspect or I would have to find locations for clerics as well.
Btw, there are also Lightning Golems described in 2e sources. Maybe I could implement them as well.
I imagine clerics could make clay, maybe even stone golems, possibly at a lower level than arcane casters, but at the cost of not being able to create other types of golems.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem
Monster Manual 2
- Stained glass golem
- Brass golem
- Dragonflesh golem
Monsters of Faerun- Ruby golem
- Emerald golem
- Diamond golem
Brass golems resembles minotaurs, so the minotaur avatar with different color palette should be perfect.Gemstone golems would be more tricky to do, though.
I want to limit it to a few selected types though. By now I have six conventional golem types in lesser, regular, greater and perfect variants each, and five exotic types. I don't want to add more than one or two exotic golems to the list.
Btw, the Burning Man you're encountering in ToB is a golem as well. I always assumed it to be just another fire elemental type.
Also, a question: the larger golems' maneuverability is obviously limited in tight spaces like dungeons and interior areas. Will there be a way to get them past these obstacles and get them "unstuck" without having to use Ctrl+J?