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Mod idea: Golem Building ability for arcane casters

argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
edited July 2016 in General Modding
The mod has been officially released. See this topic for more information:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/60602/mod-golem-construction-for-spellcasters

About the mod:

I've been thinking about putting together a mod that allows arcane casters to construct golems at will. The ability to construct golems can be acquired from various tomes that describe how to build specific golem types. They can be used like the stat increasing tomes in BG1 to add the ability to the reader. At present I have planned to add six manuals for building "conventional" golems and another six volumes for building exotic types of golems. The conventional goles will include lesser, regular, greater and perfect variants.

Before you can build a golem you will have to find a tome or manual which describes how to build a specific golem type. I don't know yet how rare these tomes should be. The weaker golem manuals can probably purchased from some merchants. The more exotic or powerful golem manuals will probably be hidden in some dungeon or guarded by powerful creatures. Each manual teaches the "Construct Golem" to the reader of the book only. However, the knowledge to build a specific type of golem is taught to the whole party.

You will also need certain ingredients for each golem. Some can be purchased from various merchants. Others may have to be collected or looted. And you can only construct them in designated locations which are suitable for the task. In SoD this will be the second floor of Sorcerous Sundries, the Coldhearth Lich Outpost and the ruins of Kanaglym. In SoA you can use the Planar Sphere after dealing with Lavok and Jermien's home in Imnesville. The second floor of Watcher's Keep is also a suitable location (after taking care of the Chromatic Demon). In ToB the Pocket Plane would be a likely candidate after purchasing the right equipment for the task. There may be exceptions to the rule though.

I'm planning to add the following golems:

Conventional golems


1. Flesh Golem

Lesser Flesh Golem:
  • Min. level: 8 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: one full set of body parts
  • Stats: STR: 17, HP: 30, AC: 11, THAC0: 10, APR: 1, Saves: 12/13/12/13/13
  • Resistances: Magic:75, Cold:75, MCold:75, Electricity:75
  • There is a 1% chance that a flesh golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
Flesh Golem:
  • Min. level: 10 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: two full sets of body parts
  • Stats: STR: 18/50, HP: 40, AC: 9, THAC0: 7, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical weapons, Saves: 10/11/10/11/11
  • Resistances: Magic:90, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Piercing:25, Missile:25
  • There is a 1% chance that a flesh golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
Greater Flesh Golem:
  • Min. level: 14 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four full sets of body parts, one scroll of Stinking Cloud
  • Stats: STR: 19, HP: 60, AC: 6, THAC0: 4, APR: 2, Immune to non-magical weapons, Saves: 8/9/8/9/9
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:125, Piercing:75, Missile:75
  • May cast Stinking Cloud
  • There is a 1% chance that a flesh golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
  • 50% chance to split into two lesser golems of same type on death.
Perfect Flesh Golem:
  • Min. level: 14 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four full sets of body parts, one scroll of Stinking Cloud, one Deep Bloodstone Gem
  • Stats: STR: 19, HP: 75, AC: 3, THAC0: 1, APR: 2, Immune to non-magical and +1 weapons, Saves: 7/8/7/8/8, Regenerates 1HP/turn
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:125, Piercing:100, Missile:100
  • May cast Stinking Cloud
  • There is a 1% chance that a flesh golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
  • Splits into two regular golems of same type on death.


2. Clay Golem

Lesser Clay Golem:
  • Min. level: 11 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: one block of clay
  • Stats: STR: 18/50, HP: 35, AC: 9, THAC0: 8, APR: 1, Saves: 9/11/10/10/12
  • Resistances: Magic:75, Cold:75, MCold:75, Electricity:100, Slashing:75, Piercing:75, Missile:75
  • There is a 1% chance that a clay golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
Clay Golem:
  • Min. level: 13 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: two blocks of clay, one scroll of Haste
  • Stats: STR: 19, HP: 50, AC: 7, THAC0: 6, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical weapons, Saves: 7/9/8/8/10
  • Resistances: Magic:90, Fire:50, MFire:50, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Slashing:100, Piercing:100, Missile:100
  • May cast Haste on self
  • There is a 1% chance that a clay golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
Greater Clay Golem:
  • Min. level: 17 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four block of clay, one scroll of Haste
  • Stats: STR: 20, HP: 70, AC: 4, THAC0: 3, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical and +1 weapons, Saves: 5/7/6/6/8
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:50, MFire:50, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:75, Slashing:100, Crushing:25, Piercing:100, Missile:100
  • May cast Haste on self
  • There is a 1% chance that a clay golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
  • 50% chance to split into two lesser golems of same type on death.
Perfect Clay Golem:
  • Min. level: 17 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four block of clay, one scroll of Haste, one bag of Enchanted Coral Powder
  • Stats: STR: 20, HP: 90, AC: 0, THAC0: -1, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical and +1 weapons, Saves: 4/6/5/5/7, Regenerates 1HP/turn
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:50, MFire:50, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:100, Crushing:33, Piercing:100, Missile:100
  • May cast Haste on self
  • There is a 1% chance that a clay golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
  • Splits into two regular golems of same type on death.


3. Stone Golem

Lesser Stone Golem:
  • Min. level: 11 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: one block of stone
  • Stats: STR: 19, HP: 45, AC: 7, THAC0: 8, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical weapons, Saves: 7/9/8/7/10
  • Resistances: Magic:75
  • There is a 1% chance that a stone golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
Stone Golem:
  • Min. level: 13 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: two blocks of stone, one scroll of Slow
  • Stats: STR: 20, HP: 60, AC: 5, THAC0: 7, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical and +1 weapons, Saves: 5/7/6/5/8
  • Resistances: Magic:90
  • May cast Slow on opponents in 30 feet radius of golem
  • There is a 1% chance that a stone golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
Greater Stone Golem:
  • Min. level: 17 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four block of stone, one scroll of Slow
  • Stats: STR: 21, HP: 85, AC: 1, THAC0: 3, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical and +1 weapons, Saves: 4/6/5/4/7
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Electricity:50, Acid:50
  • May cast Slow on opponents in 30 feet radius of golem
  • There is a 1% chance that a stone golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
  • 50% chance to split into two lesser golems of same type on death.
Perfect Stone Golem:
  • Min. level: 17 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four block of clay, one scroll of Haste, one vial of Mimic's Blood
  • Stats: STR: 22, HP: 100, AC: -1, THAC0: 0, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 3/5/4/3/6, Regenerates 1HP/turn
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:50, MFire:50, Cold:50, MCold:50, Electricity:100, Acid:100
  • May cast Slow on self which affects surrounding opponents
  • There is a 1% chance that a stone golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
  • Splits into two regular golems of same type on death.


4. Iron Golem

Lesser Iron Golem:
  • Min. level: 15 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: one bar of iron
  • Stats: STR: 20, HP: 60, AC: 5, THAC0: 6, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical and +1 weapons, Saves: 5/7/6/6/8
  • Resistances: Magic:75, Fire:50, MFire:50, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:50
Iron Golem:
  • Min. level: 17 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: two bars of iron, one scroll of Cloudkill
  • Stats: STR: 22, HP: 80, AC: 3, THAC0: 3, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 3/5/4/4/6
  • Resistances: Magic:90, Fire:100, MFire:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:75, Slashing:20, Piercing:20, Missile:20
  • May cast Gas Cloud on self
Greater Iron Golem:
  • Min. level: 22 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four bars of iron, one scroll of Cloudkill
  • Stats: STR: 23, HP: 110, AC: 0, THAC0: 0, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 1/3/2/2/4, Regenerates 1HP/round
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:100, MFire:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:50, Crushing:25, Piercing:50, Missile:50
  • May cast Gas Cloud on self
  • 50% chance to split into two lesser golems of same type on death.
Perfect Iron Golem:
  • Min. level: 22 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four bars of iron, one scroll of Cloudkill, chips of Cold Iron
  • Stats: STR: 24, HP: 125, AC: -2, THAC0: -2, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 0/2/1/1/3, Regenerates 1HP/round
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:100, MFire:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:75, Crushing:25, Piercing:100, Missile:100
  • May cast Gas Cloud on self
  • Splits into two regular golems of same type on death.


5. Mithral Golem

Lesser Mithral Golem:
  • Min. level: 18 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: one chunk of mithral, 4,000 XP drained from the caster
  • Stats: STR: 21, HP: 60, AC: 4, THAC0: 4, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 6/8/7/7/9
  • Resistances: Magic:90, Fire:100, MFire:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:20, Crushing:20, Piercing:20, Missile:20
Mithral Golem:

Min. level: 21 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
Ingredients: two chunks of mithral, 8,000 XP drained from the caster
Stats: STR: 23, HP: 80, AC: 2, THAC0: 2, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 4/6/5/5/7, Regenerates 1HP/turn
Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:125, MFire:125, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:50, Crushing:33, Piercing:50, Missile:50


Greater Mithral Golem:
  • Min. level: 27 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four chunks of mithral, 16,000 XP drained from the caster
  • Stats: STR: 24, HP: 110, AC: -2, THAC0: -2, APR: 2, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 3/5/4/4/6, Regenerates 1HP/round
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:125, MFire:125, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:75, Crushing:50, Piercing:75, Missile:75
  • May cast the "Trample" ability on enemies of normal size or smaller: Does 8d10+30 crushing damage and stuns target for one round (save vs. death at -4 penalty for half damage and avoid stun)
  • 50% chance to split into two lesser golems of same type on death.
Perfect Mithral Golem:
  • Min. level: 27 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four chunks of mithral, one Orb of Spectral Obsidian, 32,000 XP drained from the caster
  • Stats: STR: 24, HP: 125, AC: -5, THAC0: -5, APR: 2, Immune to non-magical, +1, +2 and +3 weapons, Saves: 1/3/2/2/4, Regenerates 1HP/round
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:125, MFire:125, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:85, Crushing:75, Piercing:85, Missile:85
  • May cast the "Trample" ability on enemies of normal size or smaller: Does 8d10+30 crushing damage and stuns target for one round (save vs. death at -4 penalty for half damage and avoid stun)
  • Splits into two regular golems of same type on death.


6. Adamantite Golem

Lesser Adamantite Golem:
  • Min. level: 21 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: two bars of adamantine, 8,000 XP drained from the caster
  • Stats: STR: 22, HP: 60, AC: 5, THAC0: 4, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 5/7/6/6/8
  • Resistances: Magic:90, Fire:100, MFire:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:75, Crushing:75, Piercing:75, Missile:75
Adamantite Golem:
  • Min. level: 25 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four bars of adamantine, 16,000 XP drained from the caster
  • Stats: STR: 24, HP: 80, AC: 3, THAC0: 3, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 3/5/4/4/6, Regenerates 1HP/turn
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:125, MFire:125, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:90, Crushing:90, Piercing:90, Missile:90
  • May cast the "Trample" ability on enemies of normal size or smaller: Does 8d10+30 crushing damage and stuns target for one round (save vs. death at -4 penalty for half damage and avoid stun)
Greater Adamantite Golem:
  • Min. level: 32 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: eight bars of adamantine, 32,000 XP drained from the caster
  • Stats: STR: 24, HP: 110, AC: 0, THAC0: 0, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical, +1, +2 and +3 weapons, Saves: 1/3/2/2/4, Regenerates 1HP/round
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:125, MFire:125, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:95, Crushing:95, Piercing:95, Missile:95
  • May cast the "Trample" ability on enemies of normal size or smaller: Does 8d10+30 crushing damage and stuns target for one round (save vs. death at -4 penalty for half damage and avoid stun)
  • 50% chance to split into two lesser golems of same type on death.
Perfect Adamantite Golem:
  • Min. level: 32 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: eight bars of adamantine, one drop of blood from a Solar or Fallen Solar, 64,000 XP drained from the caster
  • Stats: STR: 25, HP: 150, AC: -3, THAC0: -3, APR: 2, Immune to non-magical, +1, +2 and +3 weapons, Saves: -1/1/0/0/2, Regenerates 1HP/round
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:125, MFire:125, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:99, Crushing:99, Piercing:99, Missile:99
  • May cast the "Trample" ability on enemies of normal size or smaller: Does 8d10+30 crushing damage and stuns target for one round (save vs. death at -4 penalty for half damage and avoid stun)
  • Splits into two regular golems of same type on death.


Exotic golems


1. Maggot Golem
  • Min. level: 10 (-2 for Conjurerers and Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: two maggot-infested bodies
  • Stats: STR: 18, HP: 45, AC: 8, THAC0: 13, APR: 1, Immune to non-magical weapons, Saves: 10/11/10/11/11, Regenerates 1HP/round
  • Resistances: Magic:75, Fire:-50, MFire:-50, Slashing: 100, Crushing: 50, Piercing: 100, Missile: 100
  • There is a 15% chance that the caster catches a disease from the maggot-infested golem body during creation which slows the caster and does 2 HP damage per round for 5 turns.
  • Special attack "Smothering": In addition to 2d6 crushing damage the target is held for one round and suffers 1 HP/sec piercing damage on a failed save vs. spell. After each round the target must make a save vs. spell with a +4 bonus to break free or is held and damaged for another round. The effect can be removed with dispel magic or blocked by magic resistance.
  • There is a 1% chance that a maggot golem may go berserk during combat for 1d6 rounds and attack the nearest creature in sight.
  • Lasts only 1d4+6 days in-game time. When duration ends there is a 50% chance to run amok for 1d6 rounds before it disintegrates.


2. Bone Golem
  • Min. level: 16 (-2 for Necromancers and Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: four piles of bones, one scroll of Animate Dead
  • 50% chance that the construction process drains one level from the caster, and 10% chance that the construction process drains two levels from the caster.
  • Stats: STR: 21, HP: 65, AC: 1, THAC0: 7, APR: 2, Immune to non-magical weapons, Saves: 5/7/6/5/8
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:100, MFire:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:50, Piercing:50, Missile:50
  • May cast "Hideous Laughter" which affects enemies within 30 ft. range: Victims that fail their save vs. spell will run around in fear for 2d6 rounds. If they also fail their save vs. death, they will by paralyzed with fear instead.


3. Brain Golem
  • Min. level: 17 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: one piece of brain tissue, one scroll of Domination
  • Stats: STR: 19, HP: 75, AC: 4, THAC0: 9, APR: 3/2, Immune to non-magical and +1 weapons, Saves: 7/9/8/8/10, Regenerates 1HP/turn
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:50, MFire:50, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Slashing:50, Piercing:50, Missile:50
  • May cast Mental Blast which stuns all opponents in 30 feet radius around self for 2d4 rounds and does 2d8 non-lethal damage (save vs. spell for half damage and avoid stun effect). Does not affect undead, golems and myconids.


4. Ice Golem
  • Min. level: 20 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: one shard of magical ice, one scroll of Cone of Cold, one scroll of Protection from Cold
  • Stats: STR: 22, HP: 85, AC: 2, THAC0: 4, APR: 2, Immune to non-magical and +1 weapons, Saves: 3/5/4/4/6
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100, Slashing:20, Crushing:20, Piercing:20, Missile:20
  • May cast Scalding Steam which does 3d10 area of effect cold damage (save vs. breath to avoid)


5. Magic Golem
  • Min. level: 18 (-2 for Wild Mages and Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: one wild magic stone fragment, one scroll of Protection from Magical Weapons, Mantle or Improved Mantle, one scroll of Protection from Magic
  • Stats: STR: 19, HP: 64, AC: -1, THAC0: 5, APR: 1, Immune to all magical weapons and spells, Saves: 7/9/8/8/10
  • Resistances: Magic:100, Fire:100, MFire: 100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:100, Acid:100
  • Must be constructed in wild magic areas
  • Each successful ranged attack drains one charge from charged items and a single memorized wizard spell
  • May cast Wild Magic Flare which does 3d10 magic damage and triggers a wild surge effect on the target
  • Disintegrates in dead magic zones with a 50% chance of doing a final magic blast which does 2d6 magic damage to everyone in 30 feet radius (save vs. spell for half damage).


6. Lightning Golem
  • Min. level: 23 (-2 for Transmuters, +2 for Bards)
  • Ingredients: 100,000 gold, one scroll of Chain Lightning
  • Stats: STR: 19, HP: 80, AC: 0, THAC0: 6, APR: 2, Immune to non-magical, +1 and +2 weapons, Saves: 4/6/5/5/7
  • Resistance: Magic:100, Cold:100, MCold:100, Electricity:125, Acid:100
  • Moves at increased speed
  • Permanent lightning shield which does 1d8 electrical damage on each successful hit
  • May cast Chain Lightning on nearby enemies



Each golem has the following abilities:
  • Dismiss: Causes the golem to disintegrate on command
  • Teleport: Teleports itself to a selected party member in visual range. This ability may be needed for golems with big selection circles so they won't be stuck in narrow pathways. It can only be used when no enemies are around to prevent it from being misused for cheating.
All tomes of golem construction teach you the following abilities:
  • Construct Golem: Construct a golem of known type. Golem construction takes from 12 hours to two days, depending on golem type or variant, and can only be done in specific locations.
  • Repair Golem: Repairs a damaged golem (1x/day). Can only be done when no enemies are around.

Post edited by argent77 on
mf2112inethbrusGrammarsaladJuliusBorisovFlashburnAedanlolienAbelCrevsDaak
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Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,694
    I've thought about this - an implemented it in a very simplified way as a special ability for Transmuters in the Tome & Blood 'Revised Specialists' component. There are several problems with giving the player the ability to build golems.

    1) Building a golem should take an extremely long time and a lot of resources. In a game like this where you hit epic levels in less than 100 days, that doesn't really work well.

    2) Once you build a golem it should follow you around everywhere. But that kind of "permanent companion" is very hard to implement.

    3) Golems are extremely powerful. You could end up with the same problem as with planetars, the ability could become a win-button. That's why reading "at will" in your post gives me pause. It seems like you will limit that by limiting access to the ingredients? There's not much written about the ingredients so balancing will likely come down to those details. I also figure that the creation of a golem is a physically draining process for the mage, so I added fatigue after using the ability.

    But yeah, I've said for a long time that golems are underused in the game - the fact that the silly book you can get in Watcher's Keep is the only way for players to use them is a missed opportunity imho. So if you can implement them in a thorough but still balanced way, that would be amazing! :smiley:

    mf2112
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    Thanks for your input.

    1) The game doesn't follow 2e rules to the letter in almost every regard, so I don't see the preparation time as a real issue. I could increase the prerequisites or add more casting penalties, however, to balance it out.

    2) The golem is supposed to exist for an unlimited time (or until the player "dismisses" it manually). However, it won't ever leave the current area. I could try to implement the same mechanism as for my Djinni Companion to follow the party across maps, but then I would have to limit the ability to one golem at a time. It's probably also more complicated to implement something like this.

    3) Yeah, that't probably the biggest issue to solve. I thought about controlling the amount of available ingredients (since they can mostly be purchased from merchants) and making them expensive as well, but I have to test it in-game to find the right balance. Later on (in ToB) it shouldn't be much of a problem anymore to create a bunch of golems at a time. The more powerful variants also require a lot of preparation beforehand.

    I'm currently in the middle of outlining the stats and abilities of the golem variant. Making them slightly weaker than the golem counterparts you encounter in the wild may also help to prevent the party from becoming too powerful with this ability.

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    argent77 said:

    Thanks for your input.

    1) The game doesn't follow 2e rules to the letter in almost every regard, so I don't see the preparation time as a real issue. I could increase the prerequisites or add more casting penalties, however, to balance it out.

    2) The golem is supposed to exist for an unlimited time (or until the player "dismisses" it manually). However, it won't ever leave the current area. I could try to implement the same mechanism as for my Djinni Companion to follow the party across maps, but then I would have to limit the ability to one golem at a time. It's probably also more complicated to implement something like this.

    3) Yeah, that't probably the biggest issue to solve. I thought about controlling the amount of available ingredients (since they can mostly be purchased from merchants) and making them expensive as well, but I have to test it in-game to find the right balance. Later on (in ToB) it shouldn't be much of a problem anymore to create a bunch of golems at a time. The more powerful variants also require a lot of preparation beforehand.

    I'm currently in the middle of outlining the stats and abilities of the golem variant. Making them slightly weaker than the golem counterparts you encounter in the wild may also help to prevent the party from becoming too powerful with this ability.

    Could it be transformed with a command word back to a statue and then placed in the backpack, or in the bag of holding ala Hexxat?

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    edited June 2016
    That would certainly be a convenient option. But golems are no familiars. They are giant pieces of clay, stone or iron which are infused with high-level magic and animated by a summoned spirit from the elemental plane of earth. Each one would probably weigh a ton or more. You can never place something like this into your inventory, and probably not even into a bag of holding.

    I think with the inability of golems to travel with the party across maps would prevent you to spam golems like summons. Since the required materials are not unlimited you're probably only creating one in more challenging battles.

    Edit: Updated minimum level requirements of each golem type.

    mf2112
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    I have added stats and abilities for each golem type to the first post. They are deviating a bit from the golems you may encounter in the wild. Lesser and normal types are usually slightly weaker. The improved versions are stronger and may have additional abilities or resistances.

  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 427
    I've actually been working on something like this as part of a kit I don't intend to publish.
    I don't have much done, but the general idea was to loosely base it off the Golem Manual without Juggernauts. I also thought of implementing materials for their creation, but rather than being purchasable, I figured they would be looted off of defeated golems. Maybe parts for flesh golems would be from certain undead or humanoids. Clay, stone, and iron could be bought, in theory, but that would allow for a lot of powerful summons.
    I don't have any great solutions for the problems mentioned so far, but I was thinking making it too close to a familiar would both be unfeasible and overpowered, even if that's closer to PnP - so maybe a very long duration, but a chance to fail the elemental spirit binding and either have a spirit/elemental creature attack you, or the golem itself. And this is from 3.5, but "When a flesh/clay golem enters combat, there is a cumulative 1% chance each round that its elemental spirit breaks free and the golem goes berserk." I think something like that would prevent it from being too cheesy.
    Stone, iron, mithril, and adamantine golems don't seem to have that issue, but they're also harder to create and would probably have a greater chance to fail and/or a more powerful elemental earth spirit attacking you.

    argent77Grammarsalad
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    edited June 2016
    I'm trying to balance it out by limiting the number of ingrediences you need to build a golem. Some parts can probably be looted from the remains of destroyed golems (or other creatures), while other parts are available from selected merchants who have a limited number of items in store.
    The process of accumulating adamantine for the really powerful golems is also very resource and time-consuming, so that you're forced to decide whether to build multiple mithral golems or a single adamantite type. Either way you'll probably always carefully decide when or where to create golems. I can't tell yet how balanced the whole system really is in-game, but it looks fine in theory.

    Adding a small chance of failing to create a golem sounds interesting. I could also add a small chance that the golem turns on its creator (like in the case of the poor guy in Imnesvale).

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,273
    argent77 said:

    ...

    2) The golem is supposed to exist for an unlimited time (or until the player "dismisses" it manually). However, it won't ever leave the current area. I could try to implement the same mechanism as for my Djinni Companion to follow the party across maps, but then I would have to limit the ability to one golem at a time. It's probably also more complicated to implement something like this.

    ...

    Is this a 'hard' limit, or a balance limit? It's possible to have more than one creature follow you around like this, yes? I'm asking because I'm thinking about looking into your mod as a way to improve summon spells by allowing summoned creatures to follow you across maps. Please tell me this is not impossible!

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,273
    argent77 said:

    ...

    Adding a small chance of failing to create a golem sounds interesting. I could also add a small chance that the golem turns on its creator (like in the case of the poor guy in Imnesvale).

    I like the chance for a golem to turn on you, but I am not fond of the idea of creation failure. I find scribe scroll failure anticlimactic, and always mod It out. I hope if you implement creation failure, you make it an optional component

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587

    Is this a 'hard' limit, or a balance limit? It's possible to have more than one creature follow you around like this, yes? I'm asking because I'm thinking about looking into your mod as a way to improve summon spells by allowing summoned creatures to follow you across maps. Please tell me this is not impossible!

    No hard limit of the engine. It's more like a soft limit because of increased code complexity. Global creatures (such as NPCs or familiars) have to be registered to the baldur.gam and require a unique script name. Since multiple instances of the same golem type share the same script name it is impossible to register all of them globally. I can at most register each type of golem separately. That would probably not help much, but would be a nightmare to code. Furthermore, each new global creature is added to the baldur.bam which would become rather big after a while.

    I like the chance for a golem to turn on you, but I am not fond of the idea of creation failure. I find scribe scroll failure anticlimactic, and always mod It out. I hope if you implement creation failure, you make it an optional component

    I have to test it first before I can say more. For now it's just an idea. Maybe I'm dropping both creation failure and loss of control in the end.

    I'm also thinking about scattering different kinds of golem building manuals all over the games. Each kind teaches you how to build a specific type of golem. While manuals for weaker golems may be purchased from selected merchants I'll probably add tomes about the more powerful or exotic types to more hidden locations or powerful creatures.

    Grammarsalad
  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 427
    @argent77 Looks awesome so far! I'd say mithril is a bluish-gray close to what you have; I've always used the color of Drizzt's chain mail. And it doesn't make a big difference but I think mithril is 2e and mithral is 3e, modders choice, of course.

    JuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 427
    argent77 said:

    Good to know. I have only 3e sources on hand, so my golem builds are heavily influenced by it.

    Mithral Golems in bluish-gray:



    Mithril vs. Mithral is not explicitly stated or sourced on this page, but it highlights a few examples of where D&D took things straight from Tolkien and later changed them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_and_influences_on_the_development_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons
    I double checked though and mithril is the terminology used in Baldur's Gate, so I stuck with that more for consistency than anything.
    Similar terminology changes occur between editions with adamantine and adamantite (In BG2, adamantite items turn to adamantine dust, whereas is later editions, adamantine is the super-hard metal adamantite was, but it can withstand sunlight.)
    So technically your adamantite golems would disintegrate in sunlight hehe :wink:

    GrammarsaladJuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    I could only find several instances of "mithral" mentioned in both games. Even if the correct 2e term would be "mithril" I'll probably stick to "mithral" for the sake of consistency.

    (In BG2, adamantite items turn to adamantine dust, whereas is later editions, adamantine is the super-hard metal adamantite was, but it can withstand sunlight.)
    So technically your adamantite golems would disintegrate in sunlight hehe :wink:

    So every adamantite golem in the game you encounter under the sky would disintegrate after a while? I guess that would make battling them very easy. Since you need ages to damage them, they would break down on their own eventually. :D

    3e sources state that adamantine can be wished for from plain iron. I don't know how much that differs from the 2e procedure. But since wishes have the power to alter reality, the caster could phrase the wish so that the resulting material is sun resistant as well.

  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 427
    @argent77 Terminology is totally up to you, but I'm curious, where did you find references to mithral in-game? I can only think of Drizzt's armor, the amulet from the ranger stronghold quest, and the tokens in Spellhold, all of which use mithril.
    It wasn't implemented in-game, but I'm fairly certain the drow alloy adamantite was supposed to gradually disintegrate rather than all at once, but I also can't think of any adamantite golems actually exposed to sunlight. The spelling you used for that is consistent with BG2 golems though, but I only know of them inside the Planar Sphere and the Windspear Hills dungeon, so maybe they do disintegrate? Who knows. Would be an interesting way of preventing their prolonged use.

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    There are also "Mithral Field Plate", several instances of "Mithral Hall", mentioned in the description of Voghiln's Helmet (SoD), in "Lium's Journal of Malevolent Magicks" and also used by several townspeople you're talking to. Cross-checking with the original BG2, it looks like they even changed a single instance of "mithril" to "mithral" in BG2EE.

    I also remember fighting a bunch of Adamantite Golems in Suldanesselar, but it's true that most golems are found indoors.

    Abdel_AdrianJuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • Abdel_AdrianAbdel_Adrian Member Posts: 427
    argent77 said:

    There are also "Mithral Field Plate", several instances of "Mithral Hall", mentioned in the description of Voghiln's Helmet (SoD), in "Lium's Journal of Malevolent Magicks" and also used by several townspeople you're talking to. Cross-checking with the original BG2, it looks like they even changed a single instance of "mithril" to "mithral" in BG2EE.

    I also remember fighting a bunch of Adamantite Golems in Suldanesselar, but it's true that most golems are found indoors.

    You're right - I can't believe they changed it. I just did a quick search through DLTCEP and as far as I can tell, every instance of mithril was changed to mithral. This wouldn't be the first action of Beamdog/Overhaul I disagree with, but it could very well have been to appease Tolkien Enterprises, or WotC to be consistent with the later editions. Either way, I'd have to agree with your reasoning now.

    Also forgot about the Suldanesselar adamantite golems, but they could in theory be slowly disintegrating, seeing as that's how the metal is supposed to work in PnP, or they're simply an alloy of adamantite that is not of drow origin and lacks the turning to dust in sunlight property. I don't think we will ever know for sure. I'm interested in seeing how this mod develops though.

    JuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 487
    edited June 2016
    > I do not agree at all with the fail chances.. You wish to punish the player? make the golem weaker than it is supposed to be, otherwise you are just making the player save-scum. I would savescum for certain if my golem failed during summoning.

    > And the xp. Why would I make a golem if I lose xp? I understand that you wish it to be a draining process for the caster, but make it fatigued or unable to use spells for a certain amount of time. Getting xp is just another way for the player to just avoid these for a planetar summon. I know that xp are abundants, but leeching it from the player himself is not a good idea for me.

    > Third query: why would I make such a golems if they couldn't follow me? While in ToB you could certainly send them to the pocket plane and re-summon them from here to every place, I find it hard to believe that a player would make a golem just to use it in a certain place. Also, by doing that you are just telling the player to save his chances and use it only when truly needed; that means that you are removing the experimentation part to privilege a metagame 'vision': just use the summon in this engagement, that engagament and bug off.

    > The approach of having just a few ingredients also doesn't exactly entice me.

    But that's my personal vision :P.

    CrevsDaak
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,273
    edited June 2016
    I would be perfectly happy with an xp drain penalty if the creation follows me across maps. Otherwise, not so much

    Abdel_AdrianCrevsDaak
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,545
    This is an excellent idea. As long as the golem can follow you across area transitions and world map transitions, I won't mind being restricted to having just 1 at a time.

    As far as the creation of the golem goes, it should be reasonably difficult to build one, from finding/purchasing the components, to what is required of the mage (level requisite, scrolls, XP, etc). But it should not be so difficult that a player will find themselves making only a grand total of 3 or so across a whole trilogy run. That would defeat the point of having a variety of tiers for each golem type.

    You could use Jerlia the ore merchant in BG2 to sell some of the material components to make the golems. The deep gnome village in the Underdark could also sell some, since they've been digging around (only to discover a Balor).

    Also, will the golems be selectable like charmed creatures or will they be unselectable like the Shaman's spirits? If you cannot manually control them, the components to create the golems should be easier to gather since they may get themselves killed by charging headlong into a pack of enemies like the spirits do. If you can control them manually, I don't mind having to pay some XP to build the more powerful golems since they'll pay for themselves.

    JuliusBorisov
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,273
    argent77 said:

    Good news! It looks like handling globally registered creatures is much easier than I expected. It should be a simple matter to let golems follow you across maps (even in great numbers).

    Awesome!

    CrevsDaak
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    I probably have to drop the 1% chance of the golem going berserk during combat. It can be done with opcode 232 (Cast spell on condition) on 'Enemy sighted', but that effect triggers a console message every round which can't be disabled.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 1,389
    argent77 said:

    I probably have to drop the 1% chance of the golem going berserk during combat. It can be done with opcode 232 (Cast spell on condition) on 'Enemy sighted', but that effect triggers a console message every round which can't be disabled.

    "A contingency spell has been triggered" - that console message?
    It only displays if the first bit of the special field(.spl) or Parameter3(.eff) is set.

    CrevsDaak
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,273
    edited June 2016
    Maybe you could do it in a script?


    IF ' see enemy' yada yada

  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    edited June 2016
    kjeron said:

    "A contingency spell has been triggered" - that console message?
    It only displays if the first bit of the special field(.spl) or Parameter3(.eff) is set.

    No. It's a message about triggering the spell itself (e.g. "Flesh Golem: Berserk : Flesh Golem"). As there is only a 1% chance of the berserk effect actually triggering, the console message will be misleading in 99% of all times.

    Scripted periodic events are even more problematic. They only trigger if the creature's action list is empty and setting a timer or doing anything else will cancel the current action (which leads to the infamous 'stutter' bug).

    Btw, it looks like I gave up too soon. Setting bit 2 of the 'Special' field suppresses the above-mentioned console message.

    Flashburnmf2112CrevsDaak
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 1,389
    argent77 said:

    kjeron said:

    "A contingency spell has been triggered" - that console message?
    It only displays if the first bit of the special field(.spl) or Parameter3(.eff) is set.

    No. It's a message about triggering the spell itself (e.g. "Flesh Golem: Berserk : Flesh Golem"). As there is only a 1% chance of the berserk effect actually triggering, the console message will be misleading in 99% of all times.
    Set the subspell's Unidentified Name to .tlk ref: "-1" and it won't display in the console.
    Use a Display String opcode with the same 1% chance to indicate when it triggers.

    argent77lolienCrevsDaak
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,587
    I can't decide how to call the golem building ability. Possible candidates are "Build Golem", "Construct Golem", "Craft Golem", "Create Golem" and "Make Golem". What is your opinion?

    CrevsDaak
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