@Mungri assuming you had access to enough potions of mirrored eyes and haste, do you reckon Montaron could grab the + 2 Scimitar at quite a low level (say Level 3 Fighter/Thief)? It is definitely "metagaming", though!
Well after playing the original BG over 100 times, you will also end up metagaming. As long as you can hit stuff with ranged attacks and have access to either the potions, or the level 1 spell protection from petrification, it should be simple. Cast protection on as many strong ranged characters as possible, equip your best ammo and kill the bassilisks. You also get a staff mace or spear +2 (can't remember which one), and a wis tome up there too.
Oh there are a hell of a lot of traps to get through though, but also good EXP if you are careful. The lower levels require level 9 casters though.
@Mungri assuming you had access to enough potions of mirrored eyes and haste, do you reckon Montaron could grab the + 2 Scimitar at quite a low level (say Level 3 Fighter/Thief)? It is definitely "metagaming", though!
Yes easily. I would just go for a Scroll of Protection from Petrification (bought in Carnival) rather than those Potions of Mirrored Eyes though. My experience with those potions is they last for about half a round, I swear.
Pretty easy though. Sneak up to the (third or is it second?) floor of Durlag's Tower, and go out the side door to the outside. Worst thing is the trap in front of that door, that will probably give you more trouble than the Basilisks. If you have protection from petrification somehow, Basilisks are sissies ... and great EXP. There's also a trap on the little hole where you get the Scimitar. I would say the worst thing you have to fear is the two or three traps along the way. If you get a Potion of Mind Focusing (+3 Dex, it will give you +15% trap finding from Dexterity points), plus a Potion of Perception, you can get your Find Traps up 35% total.
Oh, and the path to Durlag's Tower is littered with a couple of Doom Guards I believe. Stealth past them.
I mean, all this sounds kinda scary probably, but it's definitely doable, yes even at low levels.
Oh yea, you won't get a full party past the doom guards without several accidents
Its really just a solo trick for thieves.
If trying a swash / mage, do 2 points in scimitar, 2 points in Katanas, and dual at level 10 with an XP cap remover god mode soloing. Then pick up a point in quarterstaffs and TWF up to level 10 Wizard, and soon at around level 13 wizard you get your second TWF point, and a third later if you remove the fighting style caps, otherwise swashbucklers can only get 2 points in melee weapons and 2WF.
2 scimitar / 1-2 katana / 2 quarterstaff / 2 TWF / 0-1 THW fighting on a awash / mage = god mode. Make sure to roll 18 Str, 18 Dex, 15 con, 17 Int as minimum values though.
Oh yea, you won't get a full party past the doom guards without several accidents
Its really just a solo trick for thieves.
So you can't just send a thief from your party up there on his own whilst leaving the rest of your party elsewhere (or do you get a "you must gather your party before venturing forth" message? Or perhaps cast ingInvisibility 10" Radius on the whole party would work?
Another question - if going for scimitars, is it worth stocking up on as many as possible as back-ups (as normal weapons can break in BG1 due to the iron problem) in Candlekeep at the start, as there aren't many places selling these elsewhere early on?
Also - do elves get the +1 THAC0 bonus for scimitars or only for other swords? I guess I could test this, of course...
You have to gather your party to venture into the tower yes. Those doomguards will 1 hit kill you at low levels.
Elves don't get bonuses with scimitars, however it is the most powerful weapon that Jaheira is proficient with, as well as having great follow up weapons from Drizzt and more in BG2.
As for back up weapons, bows don't break. Just go ranged early on until you have good melee weapons, its much safer.
Hmmm... am tempted then to go with long swords for a dual-wielding elf Fighter/Mage build, though what then would be good for my second melee weapon (assuming skip bows) - Axes (for Azuredge etc.) or perhaps Flails (for a good blunt weapon), assuming would be using hammers for an NPC?
Arguably the best weapon in the series is the flail of ages so you can't go wrong there. For BG1, there isn't anything special in flails but there are a couple magic ones that are perfectly adequate. There are a good number of solid axes throughout the game including Azuredge and a couple that do elemental damage.
I dislike most of the long swords compared to other options in BG2/TOB so much that the +1 to hit isn't worth spending the pips in long sword for any character I plan to take through TOB even if they are an elf. For BG1 alone, it is a fine choice and others have differing opinions on that.
Also - I want to go with an evil party (as want Edwin and Viconia in both BG1 and BG2), but would I be nerfing myself to go for an evil F/M player character? There only seems to be one Robe of the Evil Archmagi in BG1 for example (in Cloakwood Mine), would it be better to go for a neutral PC if wanting an evil party? The cat familiar for Chaotic Neutral seems okay, but maybe there are other advantages to going evil (e.g. item availability)?
Regardless of your weapon choice, as a fighter / mage, you will actually deal huge damage and kill things fast by polymorphing into a sword spider, or flinging minute meteors / energy blades.
After your mage levels are high enough, weapons will be a second thought. That's why multiclass for a mage isn't too advisable, its far stronger to dual from either a kensai or swashbuckler kit for the HP, AC and hit bonuses, plus Kai for kensais, traps, locks and capable stealth with the swashbuckler.
Your mage classes also level up a lot faster this way. If you want near maximum melee capability, dual your kensai at level 13, but you won't get those classes back untill halfway through BG2.
After your mage levels are high enough, weapons will be a second thought. That's why multiclass for a mage isn't too advisable, its far stronger to dual from either a kensai or swashbuckler kit for the HP, AC and hit bonuses, plus Kai for kensais, traps, locks and capable stealth with the swashbuckler.
Your mage classes also level up a lot faster this way. If you want near maximum melee capability, dual your kensai at level 13, but you won't get those classes back untill halfway through BG2.
I know some of the dual builds can become more powerful than multis in BG2, but I'd like to play something that can cast spells from pretty much the start of BG1, and don't fancy playing BG1 as a Kensai or Swashbuckler, and the idea of a melee F/M "battle mage" appeals. Edwin will still be there to be the uber-spellcaster. I do want to ensure I make some sensible weapon choices that will carry me through to BG2, though, without leaving me useless in BG1. Perhaps Axes and Flails, then scimitars later?
What are the best off-hand weapons to use in BG2 for the secondary bonuses?
Yes they do. They aren't supposed to, but it's bugged. Literally anything under the "large sword" proficiency nets bonuses if you're an elf. It's why just about the most dangerous thing you can roll is an elven warrior with a two-handed sword.
Scimitars is the better choice early, still. Just do Trademeet as your first major quest in BG2. You get at least one pretty good one out of that. Axes are probably one of the WORST weapon types for a character through both games, sadly.
Just do whatever fits the flavor of your guy. I really like running two-handed weapons on battle mages. It's just always appealed to me. There's a lot of good ones in both BG1 and BG2. As I already said, Spider's Bane syncs super well with mages in BG1 because then you can spam Webs and never worry about it. BG2, you'll just hit like a mac truck and who doesn't like that?
Yes they do. They aren't supposed to, but it's bugged. Literally anything under the "large sword" proficiency nets bonuses if you're an elf. It's why just about the most dangerous thing you can roll is an elven warrior with a two-handed sword.
Is this true for scimitars in BGTutu/BG2 as well? I knew that they still got the bonus for short/bastard/tw-handed swords (and both long and short bows), but didn't know about scimitars, if that's true that would make them a little more attractive for an elf F/M
Just do Trademeet as your first major quest in BG2. You get at least one pretty good one out of that. Axes are probably one of the WORST weapon types for a character through both games, sadly.
Ah well, I guess they're still good for characters that can't use missile weapons and Berserkers that can only put one pip into them, though, for the decent throwing axes
Just do whatever fits the flavor of your guy. I really like running two-handed weapons on battle mages. It's just always appealed to me. There's a lot of good ones in both BG1 and BG2. As I already said, Spider's Bane syncs super well with mages in BG1 because then you can spam Webs and never worry about it. BG2, you'll just hit like a mac truck and who doesn't like that?
That's indeed another option, though I was going to take Dorn in BGEE, who I assume is a two-handed sword-wielder... is there room for 2, or would that be a waste?
Have just checked and confirmed that elves (at least in BGT/BG2, not sure about BGEE) do get the +1 THAC0 bonus with scimitars...
BTW could you pickpocket Drizzt's scimitars in BG1 with the ferret familiar (99% pickpockets)? Would be quite cheesy if you could, though! I think I read somewhere that the latest patch prevents you pickpocketing him, though, so would need to kill him to get his scimitars (and mithril armour...), but that doesn't look too easy...
Pretty much the same opinions in that thread, minus one strange suggestion for two handed swords. I doubt you can pickpocket the blades off Drizzt, and the way I kill him solo isn't possible in the vanilla game (melfs meteors added via some mod along with other BG2 spells).
What are the best off-hand weapons to use in BG2 for the secondary bonuses?
Belm and Kundane are the best since they give you an additional attack with your primary weapon. You will have a base 5 attacks per round and 9 attacks per round when improve hasted.
For secondary bonuses, some of my favorites are the short sword with free action you get early in BG2 (I hate my characters getting held, etc.); the weapons with protection from level drain are key with all the vampires and other level draining undead (frees up the amulet for someone else); flail of easthaven gives damage resistance; Dak'kon's Zerth Blade (bonus merchant in main shop in waukeen's promenade) gives AC bonus plus additional spells so it is nice for a F/M; Drizzt's scimitar gives a +2 AC bonus (like a shield with an attack); etc. Weapons with elemental damage are quite nice for disrupting mages with stoneskins and those with fire/acid are great for offing trolls.
In BG2 I also like the shortsword with 3 clicks of silence, plus the free action one. That's pretty much my standard polymorph set, and then I swap over to scimitars if I'm out of spells or want to melee something, plus the staff of the magi is always nice.
Taking another approach - if going for long swords initially, these sound better longer term (i.e. into SOA/TOB) as a main hand weapon, so I guess in this case I should be looking at good off-hand weapons for my second weapon, so flails wouldn't be such a good choice? I'm thinking then that good weapons for my second choice (for off-hand) would be:
* scimitars (though Belm looks to be the only decent off-hand one if neutral or evil) * short swords (for Kundane, if it gets the extra attack, and Arbane for free action/haste) * hammers (for Crom Faeyr, for 25 Str, though think you don't get that for ages, and I wouldn't be able to use the Dwarven Thrower, but hammers would at least give me a blunt weapon option)
My third weapon choice would probably be katanas, for Dak'kon's Zerth Blade and the other good katanas
Katanas are a lot worse than scimitars for the simple reason that there aren't any in BG1, and anything with +2 or better stats in BG2 take ages to acquire. They are a good weapon class to put points into at a later time, but for most of the game they are useless. If you think that scimitars are a bad choice because you can't get a decent one earlier than the one on Durlags tower, then I have no idea why you are able to justify Katanas.
The +2 scimitar can be easilly obtained before doing anyhting else in the game. You can go straight there at the start of game, even before you put a full group together and before silke / friendly arm inn. You can go with just Imoen and have her handle the basilisks with the required potions / scrolls.
In a full group, its always a good idea to have someone proficient with shortswords and daggers, there are too many decent weapons in these classes that you can use. Shirtswords are a solid choice for Imoen or any other rogue, but they would require a strength girdle to be able to melee correctly, and also Jaheira can make great use of dual wielding with daggers / clubs allowing you to save the nice Scimitars for CHARNAME. Flail of Ages is best saved for your cleric, as its the best weapon they can use, along with maces.
@Mungri - thanks again for the follow up, I have very little experience with BG2 and haven't managed to finish a game with BG1 yet (have never attempted Durlag's Tower), so your insight is helpful. BTW I was thinking of putting points into Katanas only well into BG2.
I guess I could sell the diamond and any other loot you find early on to pay for potions/scrolls for Imoen to deal with Durlag's tower (and save alot...), and go for scimitars from outset - I do like the idea, just want to ensure it's practical!
Regarding blunt weapons, is it still worth trying to get proficiency in one for a dual-wielding CHARNAME F/M or can you get by without one? If my cleric (probably Viconia) uses flails and maces, are hammers worth putting points into (in BG1)? There is a good hammer in BG1 early on and Crom Faeyr would be great in the off-hand (25 Str!) in BG2, but I'm assuming you can't get that until quite late into SOA? The Runehammers in TOB also look good. Or would shortswords be a better choice as my second weapon to put pips into in BG1?
So, perhaps (BTW I'm unsure if you get any additional proficiencies for Mage levels, I've assumed not):
Lvl 1: Scimitars ** TWF **
Lvl 3: Scimitars ** TWF ***
Lvl 6: Scimitars ** TWF *** Hammers or Shortswords *
Lvl 9: Scimitars ** TWF *** Hammers or Shortswords **
Lvl 12:
Scimitars ** TWF *** Hammers or Shortswords ** Katanas *
Lvl 15:
Scimitars ** TWF *** Hammers or Shortswords ** Katanas **
Does something like that make any sense or is that still too early to make any useful use of katanas? Would staves (or axes, perhaps?) be better? Or going for shortswords at level 6, then hammers at level 12? Would really like to plan this out properly. Am happy using a longbow without proficiencies in BG1, would still hit fairly well with high dex and elf bonus.
Comments
Oh there are a hell of a lot of traps to get through though, but also good EXP if you are careful. The lower levels require level 9 casters though.
Pretty easy though. Sneak up to the (third or is it second?) floor of Durlag's Tower, and go out the side door to the outside. Worst thing is the trap in front of that door, that will probably give you more trouble than the Basilisks. If you have protection from petrification somehow, Basilisks are sissies ... and great EXP. There's also a trap on the little hole where you get the Scimitar. I would say the worst thing you have to fear is the two or three traps along the way. If you get a Potion of Mind Focusing (+3 Dex, it will give you +15% trap finding from Dexterity points), plus a Potion of Perception, you can get your Find Traps up 35% total.
Oh, and the path to Durlag's Tower is littered with a couple of Doom Guards I believe. Stealth past them.
I mean, all this sounds kinda scary probably, but it's definitely doable, yes even at low levels.
Its really just a solo trick for thieves.
If trying a swash / mage, do 2 points in scimitar, 2 points in Katanas, and dual at level 10 with an XP cap remover god mode soloing. Then pick up a point in quarterstaffs and TWF up to level 10 Wizard, and soon at around level 13 wizard you get your second TWF point, and a third later if you remove the fighting style caps, otherwise swashbucklers can only get 2 points in melee weapons and 2WF.
2 scimitar / 1-2 katana / 2 quarterstaff / 2 TWF / 0-1 THW fighting on a awash / mage = god mode. Make sure to roll 18 Str, 18 Dex, 15 con, 17 Int as minimum values though.
Another question - if going for scimitars, is it worth stocking up on as many as possible as back-ups (as normal weapons can break in BG1 due to the iron problem) in Candlekeep at the start, as there aren't many places selling these elsewhere early on?
Also - do elves get the +1 THAC0 bonus for scimitars or only for other swords? I guess I could test this, of course...
For backups, I like to have one or two backups early in the game. Elves don't get the +1 for anything but longswords.
Elves don't get bonuses with scimitars, however it is the most powerful weapon that Jaheira is proficient with, as well as having great follow up weapons from Drizzt and more in BG2.
As for back up weapons, bows don't break. Just go ranged early on until you have good melee weapons, its much safer.
I dislike most of the long swords compared to other options in BG2/TOB so much that the +1 to hit isn't worth spending the pips in long sword for any character I plan to take through TOB even if they are an elf. For BG1 alone, it is a fine choice and others have differing opinions on that.
After your mage levels are high enough, weapons will be a second thought. That's why multiclass for a mage isn't too advisable, its far stronger to dual from either a kensai or swashbuckler kit for the HP, AC and hit bonuses, plus Kai for kensais, traps, locks and capable stealth with the swashbuckler.
Your mage classes also level up a lot faster this way. If you want near maximum melee capability, dual your kensai at level 13, but you won't get those classes back untill halfway through BG2.
What are the best off-hand weapons to use in BG2 for the secondary bonuses?
Scimitars is the better choice early, still. Just do Trademeet as your first major quest in BG2. You get at least one pretty good one out of that. Axes are probably one of the WORST weapon types for a character through both games, sadly.
Just do whatever fits the flavor of your guy. I really like running two-handed weapons on battle mages. It's just always appealed to me. There's a lot of good ones in both BG1 and BG2. As I already said, Spider's Bane syncs super well with mages in BG1 because then you can spam Webs and never worry about it. BG2, you'll just hit like a mac truck and who doesn't like that?
BTW are the long swords in BG2 really so bad? Daystar looks pretty good (see: http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate2/weapons/longswords.html), for example...
BTW could you pickpocket Drizzt's scimitars in BG1 with the ferret familiar (99% pickpockets)? Would be quite cheesy if you could, though! I think I read somewhere that the latest patch prevents you pickpocketing him, though, so would need to kill him to get his scimitars (and mithril armour...), but that doesn't look too easy...
Pretty much the same opinions in that thread, minus one strange suggestion for two handed swords. I doubt you can pickpocket the blades off Drizzt, and the way I kill him solo isn't possible in the vanilla game (melfs meteors added via some mod along with other BG2 spells).
For secondary bonuses, some of my favorites are the short sword with free action you get early in BG2 (I hate my characters getting held, etc.); the weapons with protection from level drain are key with all the vampires and other level draining undead (frees up the amulet for someone else); flail of easthaven gives damage resistance; Dak'kon's Zerth Blade (bonus merchant in main shop in waukeen's promenade) gives AC bonus plus additional spells so it is nice for a F/M; Drizzt's scimitar gives a +2 AC bonus (like a shield with an attack); etc. Weapons with elemental damage are quite nice for disrupting mages with stoneskins and those with fire/acid are great for offing trolls.
* scimitars (though Belm looks to be the only decent off-hand one if neutral or evil)
* short swords (for Kundane, if it gets the extra attack, and Arbane for free action/haste)
* hammers (for Crom Faeyr, for 25 Str, though think you don't get that for ages, and I wouldn't be able to use the Dwarven Thrower, but hammers would at least give me a blunt weapon option)
My third weapon choice would probably be katanas, for Dak'kon's Zerth Blade and the other good katanas
The +2 scimitar can be easilly obtained before doing anyhting else in the game. You can go straight there at the start of game, even before you put a full group together and before silke / friendly arm inn. You can go with just Imoen and have her handle the basilisks with the required potions / scrolls.
In a full group, its always a good idea to have someone proficient with shortswords and daggers, there are too many decent weapons in these classes that you can use. Shirtswords are a solid choice for Imoen or any other rogue, but they would require a strength girdle to be able to melee correctly, and also Jaheira can make great use of dual wielding with daggers / clubs allowing you to save the nice Scimitars for CHARNAME. Flail of Ages is best saved for your cleric, as its the best weapon they can use, along with maces.
I guess I could sell the diamond and any other loot you find early on to pay for potions/scrolls for Imoen to deal with Durlag's tower (and save alot...), and go for scimitars from outset - I do like the idea, just want to ensure it's practical!
Regarding blunt weapons, is it still worth trying to get proficiency in one for a dual-wielding CHARNAME F/M or can you get by without one? If my cleric (probably Viconia) uses flails and maces, are hammers worth putting points into (in BG1)? There is a good hammer in BG1 early on and Crom Faeyr would be great in the off-hand (25 Str!) in BG2, but I'm assuming you can't get that until quite late into SOA? The Runehammers in TOB also look good. Or would shortswords be a better choice as my second weapon to put pips into in BG1?
So, perhaps (BTW I'm unsure if you get any additional proficiencies for Mage levels, I've assumed not):
Lvl 1:
Scimitars **
TWF **
Lvl 3:
Scimitars **
TWF ***
Lvl 6:
Scimitars **
TWF ***
Hammers or Shortswords *
Lvl 9:
Scimitars **
TWF ***
Hammers or Shortswords **
Lvl 12:
Scimitars **
TWF ***
Hammers or Shortswords **
Katanas *
Lvl 15:
Scimitars **
TWF ***
Hammers or Shortswords **
Katanas **
Does something like that make any sense or is that still too early to make any useful use of katanas? Would staves (or axes, perhaps?) be better? Or going for shortswords at level 6, then hammers at level 12? Would really like to plan this out properly. Am happy using a longbow without proficiencies in BG1, would still hit fairly well with high dex and elf bonus.