Nostalgia. You guys have really no idea the IMPROVEMENTS made in 2.x, both in regards to UI and the engine. All you see is, "it was so much better before". No, it wasn't. It was a mess. Beamdog fixed the mess.
Think about it. The amount of bugs present is 1.3 compared to the 2.4 release? Not even comparable. Anyway who thinks 1.3 was better needs to take off the nostalgia glasses and see the world as it really is.
Fixing the bugs is all great. Changing the layout and the gameplay itself is something different. And if the BG games were such a mess to begin with, how come people have kept playing them for 20 years?
From the moment SoD was released, the 2+ patches rendered my game unplayable on my laptop, something that was never an issue before. Beamdog blamed Steam for the issue, and Steam blamed Beamdog, and after months of trying various different methods I gave up and accepted that my laptop would never play the BG:EE games again. Even after changing back to version 1.3 on Steam, without SoD, every time I entered combat the game would crash. I had never had any issues with either of the BG:EE games before that.
I now have to play the game on my partner's laptop. Not ideal, but the best solution I can come up with without forking out for a new machine (which I can't afford right now). Yes, this has given me a bit of a bias against the update to begin with, and I appreciate this isn't everyone's experience.
The new UI was implemented to make SoD playable, and (some) people might prefer the new UI, but as has been previously mentioned, there was no *choice* given when it came to the base game and BGII:EE. I think this is what is really getting people's backs up.
I personally think, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' They should have left well alone, or at least supplied an in-game option to switch to the old UI.
All I said was to make the 1.3 patch optional. I didn't say Beamdog should remove 2.0 for anyone. If you love the 2.0 patch, it really won't do you any harm if I get to play the game with the 1.3 patch, does it?
It already is optional - you can play BGEE/BG2EE with patch 1.3 right now.
You can never play SoD with patch 1.3 because SoD was completely designed and built using the new resources in patch 2.0. It's just not possible.
That is not true. You can't download the game with the 1.3 patch installed anymore. You can only download the game with the latest patch. There isn't even an option to download an unpatched game and then get the patches manually.
Feel free to show me a (legal) way of getting the games with the 1.3 patch installed, though.
All I said was to make the 1.3 patch optional. I didn't say Beamdog should remove 2.0 for anyone. If you love the 2.0 patch, it really won't do you any harm if I get to play the game with the 1.3 patch, does it?
It already is optional - you can play BGEE/BG2EE with patch 1.3 right now.
You can never play SoD with patch 1.3 because SoD was completely designed and built using the new resources in patch 2.0. It's just not possible.
That is not true. You can't download the game with the 1.3 patch installed anymore. You can only download the game with the latest patch. There isn't even an option to download an unpatched game and then get the patches manually.
Feel free to show me a (legal) way of getting the games with the 1.3 patch installed, though.
Rawgrim, I play it through Steam which does have the option of installing version 1.3, albeit without SoD. It isn't without its problems though (see my post above).
I totally agree with you about the spellbooks and journal being a complete mess. It was one of my main criticisms of SoD, and I was dismayed to discover they'd given the base games the same treatment.
Part of me is heart-warmed to see people sticking up for all the amazing bug fixes and improvements we made in the v2.x series of updates.
The other part of me is heart-warmed to see people advocating for all the amazing bug fixes and improvements we made in v1.3.
I guess the short of it is this: If you're happy with v2.x, that's great. If you're not quite satisfied with it, that's okay too. There's room for improvement, as always, and constructive feedback is always a good thing.
Fixing the bugs is all great. Changing the layout and the gameplay itself is something different. And if the BG games were such a mess to begin with, how come people have kept playing them for 20 years?
Because the story was so good, plain and simple.
Also, because modders took it upon themselves to fix some of the bigger bugs. Look at the BGFixPack for reference.
Fixing the bugs is all great. Changing the layout and the gameplay itself is something different. And if the BG games were such a mess to begin with, how come people have kept playing them for 20 years?
Because the story was so good, plain and simple.
Also, because modders took it upon themselves to fix some of the bigger bugs. Look at the BGFixPack for reference.
No it was the replay value. A ton of games have great stories, but they don't have a good replay value. Different classes + races, different party options etc. That is why people keep playing it over and over again. Each playthrough is different.
Or back up your 1.3 game, try out the update, and revert to your backup if you didn't like it. (Isn't that basically Standard Operating Procedure for software updates these days? Who doesn't back up their files?? Especially given how much warning was given that people were not enjoying the patch.)
You're right; I could have just, you know, not updated... but I couldn't have played SoD without updating to v2+, so there's that.
And, actually, I did back up my files! Even after rolling back to 1.3 the base game crashed whenever I entered a battle, something that had never happened before the v2 patch was released. It's like something had permanently changed, no matter how much I uninstalled/reinstalled version 1.3, and technical support at Beamdog weren't able to offer a solution. The game no longer works on my machine at all and I now have to play it on my partner's. I've just kind of had to accept it now. Such is life.
I have reverted back to 1.3 on his machine and I do play it under the older version.
I think people's 'griping' is productive. If enough people gripe about the 'same old' things, then they may be worth griping about. It's important to give negative feedback with the positive. Both assist with developing and changing things for the better. Like everyone else in this thread, I posted my opinion, and you have posted yours.
@Dee said: The other part of me is heart-warmed to see people advocating for all the amazing bug fixes and improvements we made in v1.3.
Version 1.3 was, and still is for me, a great modernized upgrade for the base game. What a treat it is to be able to play my favorite game without having to mod basic things like bug fixes, UI from the original Baldur’s Gate into the Baldur’s Gate II version, then add widescreen support, etc. Beamdog did a great job with this!
I can’t say that I agreed with every choice that was made, but for me, at least the basic experience was preserved. I can live with, or eventually mod out the few things that I would have rathered that they didn’t change. It is a small price to pay to see this game brought to the attention of a whole new generation of players. On top of that they added new NPCs and areas to interact with.
Unfortunately, the 2.0 update changed all of that, for me personally. I now feel that I must consider modding it all over again, just to get back to this playable state. For me this new UI does not preserve the original experience of the game. It is visually unfamiliar and unappealing. The charm is lost, and the text box is frustrating to use. The spell book no longer feels like my mages spell book, but an data base instead.
There is so much dark and black used in the SoD interface that it’s not only unappealing to me, but depressing. If the SoD expansion was meant to be a bridge between BG and BGII, why would it deviate so drastically from either game? I just can’t make sense of this.
Some here have made references to nostalgia as being a negative thing. I would argue that nostalgia has played a very big role in the EE editions ever being made. The old players and their “nostalgia” have played a huge part in keeping the game alive all these years, as well as encouraging and supporting Beamdog's efforts in bringing it back again.
I do not want to take the new UI away from anyone who likes it, but please do give me the option to use a version of the UI that preserves the classic feel of the game.
I do not want to take the new UI away from anyone who likes it, but please do give me the option to use a version of the UI that preserves the classic feel of the game.
@Ravenslight did you just agree with a comment agreeing with your comment?
That's probably the most meta thing I've seen all day.
EDIT: And that's not to dismiss the rest of what you're saying. I actually agree with a fair amount of it, especially this bit:
Some here have made references to nostalgia as being a negative thing. I would argue that nostalgia has played a very big role in the EE editions ever being made. The old players and their “nostalgia” have played a huge part in keeping the game alive all these years, as well as encouraging and supporting Beamdog's efforts in bringing it back again.
Nostalgia was a big element in what eventually led to me working here. A big part of why the SoD UI looks so different is that it was originally intended to be a separate game entirely. A lot of work went into it, and the end result looks fantastic (at least I think it does), even if it's different from the original BG:EE skin (which is, itself, very different from the vanilla UI). I'd imagine that's why the decision was made to keep it, but I can certainly see wanting to revert to the Blue Stone skin to remember the classic-er look.
Fixing the bugs is all great. Changing the layout and the gameplay itself is something different. And if the BG games were such a mess to begin with, how come people have kept playing them for 20 years?
Because the story was so good, plain and simple.
Also, because modders took it upon themselves to fix some of the bigger bugs. Look at the BGFixPack for reference.
No it was the replay value. A ton of games have great stories, but they don't have a good replay value. Different classes + races, different party options etc. That is why people keep playing it over and over again. Each playthrough is different.
If the story sucked, there wouldn't be replay value...
. The v1.3 beta option is there solely to provide a way to play the game for people whose hardware will not support the v2.0 engine.
Oha. I just realized now what you said there. You just do not want to have the user to be in version-control. OK fair enough, but why don't say it outright?
In the BD client I can already download a seperate BG:EE version which does not include SoD. So obv. there is no "technical reason" to not to provide a 1.3 version.
It's just, that you guys at BD have adopted this mindset, that the user is not worthy of having version control. Which is kinda funny for a mod heavy game like BG.
And for the haters: Beamdog is at this very moment is still selling 1.3 physical editions of the game, which can not be updated.
So much for "it's too much too ask for BD to support different versions of the game". Because they are selling them right now.
Case in point: SCS doesn't work with version 2.0. There is an "unofficial" fix out there, but it seems it is not working for everyone (see thread in general discussions; even residents like semiticgod had to use other means to be able to play with SCS)
1) It's just, that you guys at BD have adopted this ALL TOO COMMON mindset, that the user is not worthy of having version control. Which is kinda funny for a mod heavy game like BG.
better now?
2) I know it's your fix. Thank you for that. Unoffical, as in not the mod creators work. Why this nitpicking?
Comments
Think about it. The amount of bugs present is 1.3 compared to the 2.4 release? Not even comparable. Anyway who thinks 1.3 was better needs to take off the nostalgia glasses and see the world as it really is.
From the moment SoD was released, the 2+ patches rendered my game unplayable on my laptop, something that was never an issue before. Beamdog blamed Steam for the issue, and Steam blamed Beamdog, and after months of trying various different methods I gave up and accepted that my laptop would never play the BG:EE games again. Even after changing back to version 1.3 on Steam, without SoD, every time I entered combat the game would crash. I had never had any issues with either of the BG:EE games before that.
I now have to play the game on my partner's laptop. Not ideal, but the best solution I can come up with without forking out for a new machine (which I can't afford right now). Yes, this has given me a bit of a bias against the update to begin with, and I appreciate this isn't everyone's experience.
The new UI was implemented to make SoD playable, and (some) people might prefer the new UI, but as has been previously mentioned, there was no *choice* given when it came to the base game and BGII:EE. I think this is what is really getting people's backs up.
I personally think, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' They should have left well alone, or at least supplied an in-game option to switch to the old UI.
Feel free to show me a (legal) way of getting the games with the 1.3 patch installed, though.
I totally agree with you about the spellbooks and journal being a complete mess. It was one of my main criticisms of SoD, and I was dismayed to discover they'd given the base games the same treatment.
The other part of me is heart-warmed to see people advocating for all the amazing bug fixes and improvements we made in v1.3.
I guess the short of it is this: If you're happy with v2.x, that's great. If you're not quite satisfied with it, that's okay too. There's room for improvement, as always, and constructive feedback is always a good thing.
Also, because modders took it upon themselves to fix some of the bigger bugs. Look at the BGFixPack for reference.
The other part of me is heart-warmed to see people advocating for all the amazing bug fixes and improvements we made in v1.3.
Version 1.3 was, and still is for me, a great modernized upgrade for the base game. What a treat it is to be able to play my favorite game without having to mod basic things like bug fixes, UI from the original Baldur’s Gate into the Baldur’s Gate II version, then add widescreen support, etc. Beamdog did a great job with this!
I can’t say that I agreed with every choice that was made, but for me, at least the basic experience was preserved. I can live with, or eventually mod out the few things that I would have rathered that they didn’t change. It is a small price to pay to see this game brought to the attention of a whole new generation of players. On top of that they added new NPCs and areas to interact with.
Unfortunately, the 2.0 update changed all of that, for me personally. I now feel that I must consider modding it all over again, just to get back to this playable state. For me this new UI does not preserve the original experience of the game. It is visually unfamiliar and unappealing. The charm is lost, and the text box is frustrating to use. The spell book no longer feels like my mages spell book, but an data base instead.
There is so much dark and black used in the SoD interface that it’s not only unappealing to me, but depressing. If the SoD expansion was meant to be a bridge between BG and BGII, why would it deviate so drastically from either game? I just can’t make sense of this.
Some here have made references to nostalgia as being a negative thing. I would argue that nostalgia has played a very big role in the EE editions ever being made. The old players and their “nostalgia” have played a huge part in keeping the game alive all these years, as well as encouraging and supporting Beamdog's efforts in bringing it back again.
I do not want to take the new UI away from anyone who likes it, but please do give me the option to use a version of the UI that preserves the classic feel of the game.
That's probably the most meta thing I've seen all day.
EDIT: And that's not to dismiss the rest of what you're saying. I actually agree with a fair amount of it, especially this bit: Nostalgia was a big element in what eventually led to me working here. A big part of why the SoD UI looks so different is that it was originally intended to be a separate game entirely. A lot of work went into it, and the end result looks fantastic (at least I think it does), even if it's different from the original BG:EE skin (which is, itself, very different from the vanilla UI). I'd imagine that's why the decision was made to keep it, but I can certainly see wanting to revert to the Blue Stone skin to remember the classic-er look.
In the BD client I can already download a seperate BG:EE version which does not include SoD. So obv. there is no "technical reason" to not to provide a 1.3 version.
It's just, that you guys at BD have adopted this mindset, that the user is not worthy of having version control. Which is kinda funny for a mod heavy game like BG.
And for the haters: Beamdog is at this very moment is still selling 1.3 physical editions of the game, which can not be updated.
So much for "it's too much too ask for BD to support different versions of the game". Because they are selling them right now.
Case in point: SCS doesn't work with version 2.0. There is an "unofficial" fix out there, but it seems it is not working for everyone (see thread in general discussions; even residents like semiticgod had to use other means to be able to play with SCS)
1) It's just, that you guys at BD have adopted this ALL TOO COMMON mindset, that the user is not worthy of having version control. Which is kinda funny for a mod heavy game like BG.
better now?
2) I know it's your fix. Thank you for that.
Unoffical, as in not the mod creators work. Why this nitpicking?