How NPCs should be
Raduziel
Member Posts: 4,714
It's kind of common sense that Bioware did not a great job when we talk about the character stats and proficiencies allocation
With that in mind every time a start a new game I make some arrangements to work around this.
Do you guys do something similar? If it, what changes do you made in the NPCs?
Here is my list:
Ajantis
Class: Cavalier
Stats: STR 18/xx; DEX 12; CON 17; INT 11; CHA 17
Proficiencies: Bastard Sword ** ; Sword & Shield Style **
Faldorn
Class: Avenger
Stats: STR 12; DEX 15; CON 11; INT 10; WIS 16; CHA 15
Proficiencies: Club *; Staff *
Garrick
Class: Skald
Stats: STR 14; DEX 16; CON 9; INT 15; WIS 12; CHA 15
Proficincies: Short Sword *; Crossbow *
Jaheira
Class: Druid
Stats: STR 15; DEX 13; CON 16; INT 10; WIS 16; CHA 15
Proficiencies: Quarterstaff *; Sling *
Kagain
Class: Berserker
Stats: STR 18/xx; DEX 10; CON 20; INT 15; WIS 11; CHA 8
Proficiencies: Axe **; Sword & Shield Style **
Khalid
Class: Ranger
Stats: STR 16; DEX 16; CON 18; INT 10; WIS 13; CHA 9
Proficiencies: Long Sword **; Longbow *; Two Weapon Style **
Kivan
Class: Archer
Stats: STR 18/12; DEX 19; CON 13; INT 10; WIS 13; CHA 8
Proficiencies: Longbow **; Halberd **; Two Weapon Style **
Minsc
Class: Barbarian
Stats: STR 19/93; DEX 15; CON 15; INT 8; WIS 6; CHA 9
Proficiencies: Two-handed Sword **; Two-handed Style **
Montaron
Class: Assassin
Stats: STR 16; DEX 19; CON 16; INT 12; WIS 10; CHA 9
Proficiencies: Short Sword *; Sling *
Sometimes I turn Safana in a Swashbuckler and Shar-Teel into a Kensai, as well as Eldoth into a Jester, but it's something I don't usually do.
With that in mind every time a start a new game I make some arrangements to work around this.
Do you guys do something similar? If it, what changes do you made in the NPCs?
Here is my list:
Ajantis
Class: Cavalier
Stats: STR 18/xx; DEX 12; CON 17; INT 11; CHA 17
Proficiencies: Bastard Sword ** ; Sword & Shield Style **
Faldorn
Class: Avenger
Stats: STR 12; DEX 15; CON 11; INT 10; WIS 16; CHA 15
Proficiencies: Club *; Staff *
Garrick
Class: Skald
Stats: STR 14; DEX 16; CON 9; INT 15; WIS 12; CHA 15
Proficincies: Short Sword *; Crossbow *
Jaheira
Class: Druid
Stats: STR 15; DEX 13; CON 16; INT 10; WIS 16; CHA 15
Proficiencies: Quarterstaff *; Sling *
Kagain
Class: Berserker
Stats: STR 18/xx; DEX 10; CON 20; INT 15; WIS 11; CHA 8
Proficiencies: Axe **; Sword & Shield Style **
Khalid
Class: Ranger
Stats: STR 16; DEX 16; CON 18; INT 10; WIS 13; CHA 9
Proficiencies: Long Sword **; Longbow *; Two Weapon Style **
Kivan
Class: Archer
Stats: STR 18/12; DEX 19; CON 13; INT 10; WIS 13; CHA 8
Proficiencies: Longbow **; Halberd **; Two Weapon Style **
Minsc
Class: Barbarian
Stats: STR 19/93; DEX 15; CON 15; INT 8; WIS 6; CHA 9
Proficiencies: Two-handed Sword **; Two-handed Style **
Montaron
Class: Assassin
Stats: STR 16; DEX 19; CON 16; INT 12; WIS 10; CHA 9
Proficiencies: Short Sword *; Sling *
Sometimes I turn Safana in a Swashbuckler and Shar-Teel into a Kensai, as well as Eldoth into a Jester, but it's something I don't usually do.
2
Comments
1) There were no kits back when BG1 was released.
2) The most optima characters does not automatically mean the best characters for overall gameplay.
If I were going to change any of those I'd make Minsc a berserker, and maybe Kagain a DD? The other two I'd probably leave alone.
Garrick is not a skald, he fits quite well in the standard bard. This is not the person that boasts about glorious battles, it is someone who looks a bit too pretty to be holding a sword.
Kagain seems quite level-headed, not really getting a berserker vibe here.
Khalid could fit as a ranger, but it seems a bit forced.
Kivan, as portrayed here, is not a legal build, archers can only have * in melee weapons.
Shar-Teel could work as a berserker, I don't think she's quite the sword saint the Kensai portrais. Safana ends up as a bard in most of my games.
My bad about Kivan's second slot in Halberd.
Thank you all about the feedback, would love to hears yours own changes
Anjantis:
I agree on his kit, I think cavalier would fit him nicely, same with bastard sword and sword and shield, also the str thing, totally agree probably somewhere around the low 18/xx would be good, plus that upgrade to 17 con, most excellent
Alora:
I would probably keep her the way she is stat and class wise, the kits don't really seem to match what she is like, if anything, maybe the shadow dancer at best, but other than that, she can keep everything the same, just by default she is already awesome, so she doesn't really need any changes anyway
Branwan:
I would definitely say a priestess of tempus would make sense ( I think that kit is out now isn't it?) and maybe bump her WIS up to 17, so then she isn't to mediocre
Coran:
Not much to say about this guy, I think he's fine the way he is, even with his illegal HP/proficiencies, good stuff
Dynaheir:
I think she is fine the way she is, already being a mage kit with at least one good stat
Edwin:
Again this guy is fine the way he is, outrageously good with only 2 good stats, then the rest garbage, makes up for his sweet necklace and mage class
Eldoth:
I agree with the jester idea I think of all the kits that would fit him best, and stat wise, maybe bump up the INT to 16 and drop WIS down to 8 perhaps
Faldorn:
I also agree with avenger would fit her well although I would probably incease CON to 15 and DEX to 16, she has way too many sub par stats that hurt her class a bit
Garrick:
Yeah I can see him being a skald, he does talk about that he is writing a story of the adventure he had with you when he leaves your team, so I can see that working, and the stats you gave him I say give him justice still
Imoen:
I would say shadow dancer would actually fit her quite well, since she puts all of her thief points into stealth and find traps, she is the ultimate scout, hiding in the shadows looking for danger up ahead, and I suppose it also makes sense that she would eventually become a mage, she lived in candlekeep with all that knowledge at her disposal who wouldn't?
Jaheira:
Full druid eh? no fighter class? I suppose so, maybe just for the lols she can be a totemic druid just to add a little bit of flavor
Kagain:
I can definitely see kagain being a dwarven defender, as others have said, he seems to passive to be a berserker, I remember even the first time I saw that guy a million years ago I even thought that dwarven defender would fit him perfectly, although I wouldn't give him 18/xx STR either because coupled up with that killer 20 CON and all you need is the gauntlets of DEX to be unstoppable, because at 18/xx STR you can give him the STR tome, and he will really start to destroy worlds, so I think I would keep him at 16 STR and make him a DD
Khalid:
Ranger eh? I suppose that makes sense, since jaheira is a druid, that would make the pair quite compatible, although I would give him higher DEX than CON, since elves naturally have higher dex than con, always found it kind of silly that Khalid has more CON than DEX, even though he is only a half-elf still don't think that fits, but I guess some exceptions are allowed, unless of coarse he is going the ranger route, than I would definitely save higher DEX, and I would keep the same profs that you did but also give him his missing point into short sword and make him dual wield, kivan is already using a bow so we don't need another lack luster bow user, plus again with higher DEX that dual wield is justified
Kivan:
everything you said, I agree with 100% although I would take that 2nd prof off of halberd and put it into 2 handed weapon style
Minsc:
I can see minsc being a barbarian, even though he likes the forest and such, but I think barbarian suits him quite well, since he is known for being a little reckless and such, plus the profs you gave him, match much better than what he has now
Montaron:
I whole heartedly agree with the assassin although I think single weapon style and short sword makes more sense, and I would only pump his DEX up to 18, 16 CON is already pretty killer and 16 STR is a lot better than 10, so I would go that route
Qualye:
This guy definitely needs an over haul, yes he gets invisibility once per day as a special ability, and he can start with some illegal spells in his mage book, but his stats are ass awful, he is LESS than minimum, altogether he hits a silly 67, and because of that he is very lack luster, also the thing is about these late NPCs they really need something going for them that helps them shine a bit, so with those 8 extra points I would crank INT to 19, DEX to 16 and CON to 16 and that would still match all the silly flare that this guy is about and help give him a little credibility to making him join you that late in the game
Safana:
Safana screams swashbuckler, that just makes sense, since it looks like she is some kind of pirate, I could see her easily being a swashbuckling pirate, and for proficiencies I would do one in single weapon style and one in scimitar, to match more of the fencing type style of combat she would probably do
Shar-Teel:
I can easily see her being a berserker, since she is chaotic, kensai, I don't think matches what she has going that well, also I absolutely hate what beamdog has done to her for her proficiencies, even in her portrait she is using a shield and they make her dual wield instead, and worse of all they put her dual wielding profs in terrible spots, what they should have done was: 2 points in long sword, 1 point in short sword, and 1 point in two weapon fighting ( if they were so hell bent on making her use 2 weapons) instead they did this monstrosity: 1 point in longsword ( really?) 1 point in dagger ( say what?!?!) and 2 points in dual wielding ( why?!?!) so what they did was is completely destroy the hope of her getting high mastery in longswords, and now she can do what a ranger can except worse, nice, first of all this "light weapon in the offhand garbage" doesn't apply to the bg series, and all that did was cripple her usefulness, at least if she had 2 points to start with longsword and 1 point in two weapon fighting she could hit 3 points in both, or if you wanted to go sword and board style, she could hit her high mastery, but nope, all she gets is some crack pot specialization in long sword and dagger to make up for that terrible prof placement, OR even better yet, why not just start her off with 2 points in long sword and 2 points in 2 weapon fighting, so she can A. actually be useful in 2 weapon fighting, and B. if you don't want to go the 2 weapon fighting route, then you will be okay since she can go big with long sword, so because of that sweet mess up that beamdog did, I will never use shar-teel again, what a pity ( more of a rant than anything, so my apologies) but yeah, keep her stats the same, make her a berserker and 2 points in long sword and 2 points in sword and board, only makes sense based on the portrait
Skie:
probably keep her the same, none of the thief kits I think fit her that well, and I think her stats match the type of character she is so I guess I would just leave as is, exactly scrap that, by the looks of it, imoen is better than skie in every way possible, except for a tiny bit of STR ( lol?) so I think what I would do is drop her INT to 8 and crank the WIS to 17 just so she could dual class over into cleric, does it make sense lore wise? probably not, but at least it would give her a chance in doing something that imoen could not do since as I said, imoen's stats as is are higher or tied in every catergory except for 2 STR, want a tip? 2 STR at that low mark won't do SQUAT
Tiax:
Hahaha the lols buddy, what is up with this guy? cool class combo for a cool race, and then his stats get DUMPED ON, again, below the 75 minimum, and for what? summon ghast once per day? let me ask you something - when was the last time you struggled against a ghast when you hit BG the city? never? thought so, lets ask an even more important question- when was the last time one of your enemies in BG the city got owsted by tiax's ghast? never again? thought so, but, with all that being said, he needs a little big of a stat boost, not to much, but at something to make him worth while, again with his late placement in the game he needs to shine a bit to make him worth while, so I would go this route: STR 10, DEX 17, CON 16, INT 17, WIS 16, CHA 8, I think those stats justify him, that whopping INT just for flavor, and some actually WIS to make it so his cleric class isn't there just for the lols, and he is an adult, it is okay for a gnome adult to be stronger than imoen, he wants to take over the world, he isn't going to do it 9 STR, but 10 is allright
Viconia:
Fine the way she is, if there was a Shar class kit then obviously, but since there isn't then I guess I will make due with what she has, she's perfectly justifiable
Xan:
Xan is almost pefect the way he is, but they give him a moon blade with 16 DEX for being an elf, I say drop the pointless WIS by 2 and increase the DEX to 18, so then he almost has a chance to survive in melee combat instead of getting chunked by the first ankheg he sees ( no wonder he is filled with so much angst, he was given a moon blade when he knew he didn't have optimal DEX, well done xan maybe your WIS is justified.... who am I kidding? not a chance) so drop some WIS, get some DEX and xan will be the man, even with all his angst
Xzar:
no what, I think xzar is pretty good for what he has, but just for fun, why not just make his WIS 17, by default imoen is the only dual classer in the game, and Edwin is pretty much better than xzar ( combat wise) so give xzar the 17 WIS at the start, just that small smidgin' of WIS really helps give xzar some credibility
Yeslick:
love the guy, use him quite a bit actually, but too many mediocre stats, yes I know the original devs thought that 16 WIS for a cleric was mind boggling, but the reality is; it isn't, so maybe just a hair higher in the STR and CON and he would be perfection, even though he has illegally higher HP, its again, he is a late NPC and that is completely working against him so 16 STR and 18 CON, I can live with that
And now time for the new arrivals and some of these I really have a bone to pick: (Except for the SoD chums, haven't played that enough to have an honest opinion)
Baeloth:
This guy I say is almost perfect actually, in terms of special abilities/special items/stats and all that jazz, although the 14 DEX and 16 CON is a bit of a head scratcher, why are all these races having backwards ability scores against their race? so I say swap the CON and DEX, and he is right on the money
Dorn:
Ah dorn, this silly nilly is a complete mess, I just HATE how his stat and proficiency values are, lets start with STR; its WAY to high, look at minsc, with that awesome 18/93 STR he was given garbage CON/DEX and hilariously useless INT/WIS/CHA, and do you know why? because 18/93 STR is amazing, and that is what made minsc great, now we have a very easy to get half orc with a god like 19 STR, there is a reason why the gauntlets of ogre power are near the tale end of the game, and the tome of STR even further, no why? because believe it or not, high STR in BG1 is a destroyer of worlds, but here we have half-orc schmuck with an outrageous 19, I say fiddle sticks to that and lets calm 'er down a bit to 18/90, I think that perfectly justifies dorn's race and still gives minsc something, because of dorn minsc is crap in every way compared, even though their alignments are radically different, it doesn't matter, dorn is better than minsc in every way and that is just a no no, so 18/90 STR dorny, Next; DEX and CON, now I understand they can be quite low since his strength might as well be that of zeus himself but again, the placements make absolutely no sense, here we have a half-orc that gets a bonus to CON but yet his DEX is higher, say what say what? better idea, 17 CON, 14 DEX, perfect justice, yes the DEX gloves set him up to 18, but realistically, he is a warrior why does he have no CON for MELEE combat? dorn likes to boast on how much of a badass he is, but yet the gentle laugh of a new born baby takes this clown out like nothin', so 17 CON, 14 DEX, in the end he can potentially be better than minsc, but there will be something else that will come this bud down in due time....... Next; lets talk about his other 3 stats; INT 10 - no what, I can live with that, he doesn't seem like the sort of person that eats glue but at the same time, he isn't going to write Shakespeare either, so okay that's alright; WIS 15 - wait what? why? this guy has the mindful philosophy of a slug, WHAT?!?! there are baddies after me? lets go slaughter them like lambs and rush as fast as we can to it, so then we can make sure to get ambushed YEAH!!! Nope. 15 WIS is too high, yes I believe you need a minimum of 13 or some rot for being a black guard so I say, keep it down to 13, and even then that's too high, but hey, I can live with 13; CHA 16 - wait say what again? again why? dorn couldn't lead a thirsty horse to water even if he put salt in it's hay and had a bowl of the cleanest water around right in front of it, dorn has the leadership capability of a card board box at best, just because he is mean as can be and brutal, doesn't make him a leader, I do see that they dropped in down a hair from the minimum of 17, but 16 is still to damn high, let's drop it down to something that makes more sense, like 12, or even 11, with that crazy good 19 STR, 15 WIS and 16 CHA is just too high, its just another slap in the face to minsc to make minsc more garbage comparatively, so drop the CHA down to 12 at most, and then I can live with that, and now we get to his proficiencies: 2 points in two handed sword and 2 points in 2 handed weapon style, see a pattern here? so basically dorn is the uber upgraded version of minsc, why have minsc with dorn does every better than him in every way, OH! but you say, minsc has charm animal (lololol) and berserk ( kind of lol but justifiable) first off, the abilities that dorn has over minsc just squish minsc into silly ranger goo, poison weapon, health absorb, and that unholy blight ability and a +2 bonus to all saves ( thanks to being a paladin) and minsc's abilities just fall short to that, yes in certain situations charm animal can be good ( in fact I have used it to bring bears with me while I explore maps) but in the later part of the game, charm animal becomes useless because the animals disappear and dorn's abilities get stronger (lulz) but then, minscaroony has his beloved berserk ability ( thinks to boo) which is actually quite fine and dandy, except for the fact that he becomes uncontrollable, and since he has both low CON and DEX he doesn't have the stamina to be a silly uncontrolled buffoon in combat where you don't have to worry about him, plus he likes to attack fellow teammate while berserked, so something that was once a great ability, is now questionable, but I digress, back on to topic here, weapon profs, why is dorn using a two handed sword when minsc is already doing that? that is one problem that SoA/ToB has, too many two handed sword wielders, the same bologna sandwich getting dished out with each melee dude and no ham sandwich to go around, what they should have done was change it up a bit, if they were going to give dorn that silly ass 19 STR they should have made him a spear user, spears do way less damage than two handed swords, and it would also help to give minsc some credibility, and if they were to change it to 18/90 STR then I say give him a halberd instead, he is of orc blood, a halberd is the closest thing to a great axe, so that at least would match his race better, in the end, two handed sword bad choice; halberd, better choice; spear, best choice, but oh wells
Neera:
co incedently I actually have nothing bad to say about neera, in fact when it comes to making a joinable party member her everything is justified, chaotic alignment for chaotic class, high DEX low CON thanks to elf lineage and even DEX is at a nice 17, and INT also at a justifiable 17, unfortunately her HP are loltastic, but no what, I can live with it since I can see that making sense due to her race, so congrats beamdog, on making a joinable character that actually fits quite well
Rasaad:
and finally we have rasaad, and now we are back to the silly glue eating, rubber cement sniffing wagon, what happened? they did a great job on neera and then they thought; time to make some complete garbage to make up for it I suppose, so here is why I think rasaad makes absolutely no sense: 16 DEX, what are you doing? why is a character that is basically made out of whip cream and cake only have 16 DEX for someone that is fitted for melee combat? OH OH, but wait, he gets some booties that give him a +2 AC bonus you say, excellent so now instead of wearing something that he direly needs like boots of avoidance, lets give him an AC as if he actually had 18 DEX but doesn't, see, in bg2 they made a character known as valygar, do you know what he is? a stalker, do you know what that means? no sweet heavy armor that makes your AC plunge into negative territory, so do you know what they did with him? they give him 18 DEX, not 16, not even 17, a whopping 18, know why? because if they didn't people wouldn't use him ever, he would be so crippled by garbage AC so would straight up be useless, see what the problem is here? what they should have done was gave raserd ( that's what I call him) 18 DEX and those booties, know why? because it would actually give him a fighting chance in melee combat, beamdog should have showed case how great monks can be in melee, but then they make this sub standard monk instead just to show how squishy they are, especially in the beginning, but instead we have a 16 DEX tool that gets torn to shreds if he even looks at an enemy wrong, maybe in SoA 16 DEX is fine since you start off at level 8, but in bg1 16 DEX is unacceptable, 18 DEX or go home, next peeve, remember when I talked about raserd the nerd being made out of whip cream and cake? know why I said that? because his CON is 14, um, lol? when I saw these 2 travesties my head literally exploded, so first of all, his AC is garbage because he is level 1, AND his HP, what HP? he gets NO HP bonus, which gives him the durability of tissue paper, again, no HP in bg2 would of been okay ( look at haer dalis) but in bg1 ESPECIALLY if you are a squishy monk, you need every point on constitution you can muster, because surviving in melee combat ( which is what you are trained to do) is not going to happen without some useful CON, now with all this being said, im not disappointed because im a silly power gamer ( which is what I am) what im disappointed with is that a monk is a martial artist, and those folks are hella agile and healthy, you would never get your first degree in black belt with 16 DEX and 14 CON, hell you could barely get you belt above white, with those stats, I think realistically any monk in the (real) fantasy world, would have maxed on DEX and at least 16 CON, that would only make sense, unless for some reason maybe raserd has a bum knee and is a chain smoker, that's the only way I could justify his silly DEX and CON, but yet here he is with a laughable 14 WIS/CHA, and yet critically bad DEX/CON, so what I would do, is drop the CHA down to 10 ( because just like dorn, this joke couldn't lead a thirsty horse to water either to save his life, look at how he gets laughed at in nashkel) and lets bump up the CON and DEX by 2 points, with that small adjustment I think his character would make more sense and actually give this joker some credibility, I don't mind using monks in BG1 even if they are a big of a pain, but if im going to use a monk in BG1 he/she really needs to shine in the DEX/CON department or else they're gibberling fodder
so yeah, if I ever were to change the joinable characters, those are the adjustments I would probably do, more or less
PS: you are welcome for the novel
Minsc is really a ranger. In 3.5 I would definitely say a ranger/barbarian, but if I have to choose one I would say ranger over barbarian. But I would start him in longsword or bastard so as to optimize his dual wield earlier.
I don't see Montaron as an assasin; F/T is just him. He seems to like wholesale slaughter too much for careful assasinations. He's like a Korgan with some sneaking skills.
I would see Garrick as a Jester. He seems more goofy than any thing else. I don't see him whiping his allies into a battle frenzy like a skald. But overall I think plain bard is the best for his personality.
Branwen, I would see as a berzerker dualed to cleric, with some better strength.
@Sarevok57:
Quite a bit of thought to that!
I agree with quite a bit of that, Kagain as a dwarven defender (and he really does not need a stat boost in my opionion) works.
I do disagree about Safana though, to me she does not scream swashbuckler, she seductively sings film noir night club singer. I always EEkeeper her to bard.
3rd edition did it better, where 10-11 is without modifiers, and then going up by +1 per 2 points above 10, and down by -1 per 2 points below 11. That way, scores like 12 and 14 actually have an impact already, and a 16 is one shy of max, rather than only halfway.
Also, while elves have a dex bonus and a con penalty, that doesn't mean that every single elf in the game is supposed to have a higher dex than con. Baeloth is a good example where I can totally see him having higher con than dex. Dex only helps survive physical attacks, whereas con also helps survive spell damage and the likes.
Right now in SoD I have Minsc with elven chain, ring +2, bracers of dex and buckler +2 (with longsword). He can still scout and has pretty decent armor.
Minsc is a chapter on its own. I do care what the NPCs are talking about, so he gets special Ranger kit, that disallows spellcasting, stealth, but retains full plate and gets Rage per few levels like berserker. Also even his BG 2 stats are below 75, so I also boost his CON to 18.
Also, Edwin is a conjurer because all the Red Wizards in the game are conjurers.
Edwin's one weakness is that he couldn't identify something if his life depended on it.
and speaking about Edwin's lore:
Does anyone know if this is in fact the case?