Will you be making a similar post to the Feature Request forum, or Redmine to revert the dialog box back to a single scroll bar?
No, but I think that already is on redmine. Even though creating a redmine ticket helps the developers it shouldn't be taken as a requirement for a change to happen (otherwise this thread would be largely pointless as the point is to offer a feedback to the devs). However in case of the record screen it is appropriate to sum up the disscussion and the result we had here to one report.
Will you be making a similar post to the Feature Request forum, or Redmine to revert the dialog box back to a single scroll bar?
No, but I think that already is on redmine. Even though creating a redmine ticket helps the developers it shouldn't be taken as a requirement for a change to happen (otherwise this thread would be largely pointless as the point is to offer a feedback to the devs). However in case of the record screen it is appropriate to sum up the disscussion and the result we had here to one report.
Agreed; in the case of the Record screen, the suggestions are numerous but all have to be taken together, which means it's important to have a formal write-up of how you want it to look and operate.
For the dialogue window, if what you want is just "one scrollbar for everything", that's a much simpler request; if it's already on Redmine, it probably doesn't need to be discussed further.
I believe this and this are the issues on redmine concerning the dialogue window. We might improve upon that a bit, as especially the 2nd issue is worded rather short and I'm not sure if the 1st issue is fixed or not.
Yeah @Doubledimas - they are the two issues I've tried to solve above.
First, that the dialogue window expands as needed so all of the conversation and options are fully visible, and second, only if space doesn't allow, then only one scrollbar is used for the conversation and options.
Firstly, @Pecca thanks for starting this thread and thanks to everyone who's put in the time and effort to make mock-ups and give input etc.
I've been following this thread with interest not because I'm playing v.2 but because I want to 'want to' play v.2 and the UI is the main reason why I've reverted playing v.1.3.
This discussion has turned out to be what Marketing types call a 'Focus Group'. This is where target consumers are selected at random to participate in a discussion about a potential new (or existing) product of which they are shown, and asked to try out, a selection of variations on the same theme. The discussion is facilitated by a member of the advertising agency while members of the project team responsible for developing the new product watch and listen from behind a big one-way mirror (creepy but true -I've sat behind one of those mirrors more times than I can remember). The project team then go away with all the input from the focus group, sort through it for tangible positives and negatives and tweak the product accordingly.
That last part is the most important and I worry that just saying "Put it on Redmine" doesn't cut it. All the consumer input Beamdog needs concerning the UI is in (or linked to from) this thread and it's up to them to sort the wheat from the chaff - Redmine won't do the hard yards for them.
As this thread appears to be the one that the developers are taking a close look at, I think that it should contain some discussion about the new direction SoD took in regards to artwork and color scheme.
While I understand that some people like the new color scheme and artwork very much, the majority of the feed back that I have seen has been negative. Not only here on this forum, but on other forums, in YouTube videos, etc.
As an expansion, a bridge between Baldur’s Gate I and II, it should at least try to fit in with the classical elements of the original games. It should not stand out so jarringly from either of the old parts, nor should it just take over and change them to match itself.
It doesn’t feel like a Baldur’s Gate game. I personally would prefer it used the elements found in BGII, but I would be fine with anything taken from either of the original games.
I don’t want dragons plastered all over BG or BGII. For the SoD portion, they would work better if they fit in with the original artwork. Maybe some nice golden or stone dragon heads, or whatever. These dark, depressing screens with red splotches belong in a mod.
Is it possible to give the player a choice of different skins, or whatever, to use? I’m not sure what terminology to use here. If it isn’t, then please use something that fits better with the original artwork.
Skins is the right term. At the moment at least, though, the skins for BG:EE and BGII:EE and SoD all have separate UI.menu implementations, which means that they're not (currently) interchangeable. Unifying them is a solid idea, and the option to change the UI skin would be a great feature request.
I would hesitate to say that "most players" dislike the Dragonskin UI, though; much like RNG feedback, you're more likely to remember the moments where the reaction is negative than where it's positive. What I've seen most frequently is that the Dragonskin UI might have fit better if the expansion had been its own game, which is a fair assessment to make.
@Ravenslight: It's really personal preference. I find the blue UI a tad bland, and if the UI is too bright, it distracts from the actual information. I actually have black/very dark backgrounds for most programs I use.
However, it would indeed be nice if one could choose between "Baldur's Gate skin", "Dragonspear skin", and "Automatic", where Automatic would use the Baldur's Gate skin for the base story, and the Dragonspear skin for the expansion story.
As for the red color, it felt to me to fit the theme, but you're right in that red indicates bad/danger. (Coincidentally, though, red is used a lot more, like for all the dialogue answers for instance, and this forum also uses red highlight text on mostly black background.)
@Pecca: That looks quite lovely! I approve of moving Class Description to the bottom. I wonder if swapping Export and Reform party would make sense.
"General Info" sounds a bit amateuristic to me, as Info is slang, and not exactly official. "General Information" would look better to me.
And I still think it makes sense to label "Off Hand" as "Off Hand THAC0" and "Off Hand Damage"
Black and dark backgrounds also are better for tablets and mobiles with respect to battery life too...
I think the skin idea is great as it lets everyone use what they like the best. As an additional request, a skin loader in-game would be ideal. E.g. boot the game up, select your skin, restart and the new skin is applied.
That way, UI modders/artists could compile skin packs that are easily loaded by users.
@Dee said: Unifying them is a solid idea, and the option to change the UI skin would be a great feature request.
Not a great idea if it means using the SoD artwork to replace the classic skins for the other two games.
Personal preference is a fair point. But I feel that there truly are a significant number of people who do not like the current skins.
As I really don’t want to bring up discussions about other things that players may or may not have liked about the game, I don’t think posting entire reviews here is a good idea. But I have heard and seen more than a few negative responses. Here, I will just copy and paste a few lines from different peoples reactions that are specific to the UI.
The UI however never stopped being a pain, or the graphics tough on the eyes
because some of the people hate the new black user interface that has been added also to BGEE and BG2EE
The UI is a mess (black boarders and poor arrangement of buttons).
The interface is ugly
and to top it off - an uglified 'enhanced' user interface.
In YouTube videos as well. Words used to describe the new look such as, garish, amateurish, ugly, dark.
As I noted in my previous post, some people do like it, but I am just not seeing a lot of posts saying something like, “Hey, check out this new artwork, it’s great!”
I had not considered how it would look on tablets and mobiles as I don’t use them. Now that you bring it up, that makes sense. Perhaps that is why they chose the black, but it doesn’t work the same on a PC. I suppose that is another reason for giving the player options.
I was never a fan of the blue skins used in BGEE either, but at least I didn’t find it unplayable.
You mistake me; I'm not saying that there aren't people who dislike the SoD skin; I'm only saying that just because more people are actively complaining than are actively praising it doesn't mean that there are fewer people who like it. (The threshold to give negative feedback is lower than the threshold to give positive feedback, because when you like something, it doesn't interfere with your game experience, meaning that you're more likely to just keep playing the game. If you don't like something, you're more likely to stop and post a review.)
In any case, my point wasn't that the Dragonskin UI should be used for all three games; my point was that an option to select the skin you prefer is a good suggestion. Unifying them in terms of layout would be an important first step, though; otherwise, maintaining the UI would require maintaining three completely different skins for functionality, not just appearance.
I'm going to move this to a new section (you can find it at the top of the SoD forum); there's a lot of good discussion happening here, but in a six-page thread a lot of it may get lost. I'll be starting Pin threads for each of the screens that get brought up here, to help direct the discussion and ideas.
You mistake me; I'm not saying that there aren't people who dislike the SoD skin; I'm only saying that just because more people are actively complaining than are actively praising it doesn't mean that there are fewer people who like it. (The threshold to give negative feedback is lower than the threshold to give positive feedback, because when you like something, it doesn't interfere with your game experience, meaning that you're more likely to just keep playing the game. If you don't like something, you're more likely to stop and post a review.)
@Dee thanks for making this important point. Indeed it is well documented in the behavioral sciences that people are significantly more likely to post online about disliking something than about liking something. I happen to really like the new UI and also the new SoD skin. It would never have even occurred to me to do a post or review saying so. I'd need to see data to support the claim that most/a majority of the people actually playing the game (and not merely people on this or any other forum) dislike the new UI/skin.
Add an AI toggle button (with description) into the last character generation "choose difficulty" screen, so players can choose to turn it off before they start playing the game. The description would also help to understand what everything it does.
Edit: Alternatively, make an entirely new character generation screen "AI scripts" after "appearance" screen where an AI script could be assigned (currently that's possible only from the record screen in game iirc). In that case the AI toggle button could be on that screen.
I have already acknowledged that some people like the new skin, very much. I have no idea what the percentages are. I never said I did. My point is that not everyone likes the new skin. I personally don’t like it and I’m not the only one.
I would like the option to load a different skin. That is not going to take the current skin that you do like away from you.
Add an AI toggle button (with description) into the last character generation "choose difficulty" screen, so players can choose to turn it off before they start playing the game. The description would also help to understand what everything it does.
Edit: Alternatively, make an entirely new character generation screen "AI scripts" after "appearance" screen where an AI script could be assigned (currently that's possible only from the record screen in game iirc). In that case the AI toggle button could be on that screen.
On this note - as a side-suggestion, I would not have characters voice their scripting actions (or at least be a lot more smarter with it - eg different variations of voiced actions, a visual change in the character portrait maybe?).
It's quite frustrating to have Corwin saying "Shhh, I'm hidden" every 90-seconds. I appreciate that Hide In Shadows is not quite the same as Find Traps in that respect (one is a status change, the other is a check process) however repetitive lines like that do annoy after a while.
Edit: I left the game running for 10minutes to see how many times it happens: 37 times Corwin hid successfully and that line was voiced. So it's even worse, she does it every 16-seconds when not in battle/performing other actions.
@Pecca: Is it an idea to update your original post with links to the topics that Dee created? That way newcomers to the discussion can easily find the latest status for some of the topics you addressed in the first post.
@Dee: Will you be creating more topics for specific discussion points? In this thread there is at least some posts about the World Map for example.
Is it an idea to update your original post with links to the topics that Dee created? That way newcomers to the discussion can easily find the latest status for some of the topics you addressed in the first post.
Add an AI toggle button (with description) into the last character generation "choose difficulty" screen, so players can choose to turn it off before they start playing the game. The description would also help to understand what everything it does.
Edit: Alternatively, make an entirely new character generation screen "AI scripts" after "appearance" screen where an AI script could be assigned (currently that's possible only from the record screen in game iirc). In that case the AI toggle button could be on that screen.
On this note - as a side-suggestion, I would not have characters voice their scripting actions (or at least be a lot more smarter with it - eg different variations of voiced actions, a visual change in the character portrait maybe?).
It's quite frustrating to have Corwin saying "Shhh, I'm hidden" every 90-seconds. I appreciate that Hide In Shadows is not quite the same as Find Traps in that respect (one is a status change, the other is a check process) however repetitive lines like that do annoy after a while.
Edit: I left the game running for 10minutes to see how many times it happens: 37 times Corwin hid successfully and that line was voiced. So it's even worse, she does it every 16-seconds when not in battle/performing other actions.
A worthy request, but it's not something the UI has the ability to affect.
@Dee: Will you be creating more topics for specific discussion points? In this thread there is at least some posts about the World Map for example.
Yes, absolutely. I need to go back through the thread for the discussion points, though; if someone wants to summarize them that will speed things along.
@Dee For starters: * A topic for the world map would be nice: both Pecca in his OP and swit in his post have commented on it. * A topic for the inventory: the OP has some information, Sarevok's post, as well.
An idea I had was for something like Ctrl actions... eg Ctrl + Left-Click and Ctrl + Right-Click.
That way it wouldn't take any functionality from regular users (the standard Left-clicks and right-clicks would still work) but it would give more opportunity for interesting interactions for further development.
The current list of actions that are available in the UI are:
Action (Left-Click) ActionDbl (Double Left-Click) ActionAlt (Right-Click) ActionHold (Long Left Click) ActionEnter (mouse cursor enters the area) ActionExit (mouse cursor leaves the area) ActionScroll (for scrollbars and scrollbar simulation) ActionDrag (for handles and moving elements - like the journal or top of the message window)
So Ctrl actions would be a big bonus.
This wouldn't be available for tablet/mobile users however.
Comments
Anyway...
BREAKTHROUGH !
The Dialog box can...- resize automatically
- have just the one scrollbar and only if needed
- look damn lovely
Maximum Text size:
Regular text size:
For the dialogue window, if what you want is just "one scrollbar for everything", that's a much simpler request; if it's already on Redmine, it probably doesn't need to be discussed further.
First, that the dialogue window expands as needed so all of the conversation and options are fully visible, and second, only if space doesn't allow, then only one scrollbar is used for the conversation and options.
They could be worded better.
Seriously, I can’t begin to tell you what a weight has been lifted for me, seeing progress made for the dialog box.
I've been following this thread with interest not because I'm playing v.2 but because I want to 'want to' play v.2 and the UI is the main reason why I've reverted playing v.1.3.
This discussion has turned out to be what Marketing types call a 'Focus Group'.
This is where target consumers are selected at random to participate in a discussion about a potential new (or existing) product of which they are shown, and asked to try out, a selection of variations on the same theme. The discussion is facilitated by a member of the advertising agency while members of the project team responsible for developing the new product watch and listen from behind a big one-way mirror (creepy but true -I've sat behind one of those mirrors more times than I can remember).
The project team then go away with all the input from the focus group, sort through it for tangible positives and negatives and tweak the product accordingly.
That last part is the most important and I worry that just saying "Put it on Redmine" doesn't cut it. All the consumer input Beamdog needs concerning the UI is in (or linked to from) this thread and it's up to them to sort the wheat from the chaff - Redmine won't do the hard yards for them.
While I understand that some people like the new color scheme and artwork very much, the majority of the feed back that I have seen has been negative. Not only here on this forum, but on other forums, in YouTube videos, etc.
As an expansion, a bridge between Baldur’s Gate I and II, it should at least try to fit in with the classical elements of the original games. It should not stand out so jarringly from either of the old parts, nor should it just take over and change them to match itself.
It doesn’t feel like a Baldur’s Gate game. I personally would prefer it used the elements found in BGII, but I would be fine with anything taken from either of the original games.
I don’t want dragons plastered all over BG or BGII. For the SoD portion, they would work better if they fit in with the original artwork. Maybe some nice golden or stone dragon heads, or whatever. These dark, depressing screens with red splotches belong in a mod.
Is it possible to give the player a choice of different skins, or whatever, to use? I’m not sure what terminology to use here. If it isn’t, then please use something that fits better with the original artwork.
I would hesitate to say that "most players" dislike the Dragonskin UI, though; much like RNG feedback, you're more likely to remember the moments where the reaction is negative than where it's positive. What I've seen most frequently is that the Dragonskin UI might have fit better if the expansion had been its own game, which is a fair assessment to make.
However, it would indeed be nice if one could choose between "Baldur's Gate skin", "Dragonspear skin", and "Automatic", where Automatic would use the Baldur's Gate skin for the base story, and the Dragonspear skin for the expansion story.
As for the red color, it felt to me to fit the theme, but you're right in that red indicates bad/danger. (Coincidentally, though, red is used a lot more, like for all the dialogue answers for instance, and this forum also uses red highlight text on mostly black background.)
@Pecca: That looks quite lovely! I approve of moving Class Description to the bottom. I wonder if swapping Export and Reform party would make sense.
"General Info" sounds a bit amateuristic to me, as Info is slang, and not exactly official. "General Information" would look better to me.
And I still think it makes sense to label "Off Hand" as "Off Hand THAC0" and "Off Hand Damage"
I think the skin idea is great as it lets everyone use what they like the best. As an additional request, a skin loader in-game would be ideal. E.g. boot the game up, select your skin, restart and the new skin is applied.
That way, UI modders/artists could compile skin packs that are easily loaded by users.
Unifying them is a solid idea, and the option to change the UI skin would be a great feature request.
Not a great idea if it means using the SoD artwork to replace the classic skins for the other two games.
Personal preference is a fair point. But I feel that there truly are a significant number of people who do not like the current skins.
As I really don’t want to bring up discussions about other things that players may or may not have liked about the game, I don’t think posting entire reviews here is a good idea. But I have heard and seen more than a few negative responses. Here, I will just copy and paste a few lines from different peoples reactions that are specific to the UI.
The UI however never stopped being a pain, or the graphics tough on the eyes
because some of the people hate the new black user interface that has been added also to BGEE and BG2EE
The UI is a mess (black boarders and poor arrangement of buttons).
The interface is ugly
and to top it off - an uglified 'enhanced' user interface.
In YouTube videos as well. Words used to describe the new look such as, garish, amateurish, ugly, dark.
As I noted in my previous post, some people do like it, but I am just not seeing a lot of posts saying something like, “Hey, check out this new artwork, it’s great!”
I had not considered how it would look on tablets and mobiles as I don’t use them. Now that you bring it up, that makes sense. Perhaps that is why they chose the black, but it doesn’t work the same on a PC. I suppose that is another reason for giving the player options.
I was never a fan of the blue skins used in BGEE either, but at least I didn’t find it unplayable.
In any case, my point wasn't that the Dragonskin UI should be used for all three games; my point was that an option to select the skin you prefer is a good suggestion. Unifying them in terms of layout would be an important first step, though; otherwise, maintaining the UI would require maintaining three completely different skins for functionality, not just appearance.
Link: https://forums.beamdog.com/categories/ui-discussion-and-workshop
Add an AI toggle button (with description) into the last character generation "choose difficulty" screen, so players can choose to turn it off before they start playing the game. The description would also help to understand what everything it does.
Edit: Alternatively, make an entirely new character generation screen "AI scripts" after "appearance" screen where an AI script could be assigned (currently that's possible only from the record screen in game iirc). In that case the AI toggle button could be on that screen.
I would like the option to load a different skin. That is not going to take the current skin that you do like away from you.
On this note - as a side-suggestion, I would not have characters voice their scripting actions (or at least be a lot more smarter with it - eg different variations of voiced actions, a visual change in the character portrait maybe?).
It's quite frustrating to have Corwin saying "Shhh, I'm hidden" every 90-seconds. I appreciate that Hide In Shadows is not quite the same as Find Traps in that respect (one is a status change, the other is a check process) however repetitive lines like that do annoy after a while.
Edit: I left the game running for 10minutes to see how many times it happens: 37 times Corwin hid successfully and that line was voiced. So it's even worse, she does it every 16-seconds when not in battle/performing other actions.
@Dee: Will you be creating more topics for specific discussion points? In this thread there is at least some posts about the World Map for example.
For starters:
* A topic for the world map would be nice: both Pecca in his OP and swit in his post have commented on it.
* A topic for the inventory: the OP has some information, Sarevok's post, as well.
An idea I had was for something like Ctrl actions... eg Ctrl + Left-Click and Ctrl + Right-Click.
That way it wouldn't take any functionality from regular users (the standard Left-clicks and right-clicks would still work) but it would give more opportunity for interesting interactions for further development.
The current list of actions that are available in the UI are:
Action (Left-Click)
ActionDbl (Double Left-Click)
ActionAlt (Right-Click)
ActionHold (Long Left Click)
ActionEnter (mouse cursor enters the area)
ActionExit (mouse cursor leaves the area)
ActionScroll (for scrollbars and scrollbar simulation)
ActionDrag (for handles and moving elements - like the journal or top of the message window)
So Ctrl actions would be a big bonus.
This wouldn't be available for tablet/mobile users however.
Thoughts?