I'm not crazy about PoE's implementation of the portrait, since it sits on top of everything and pulls me out of the world more than I'd like. Having some symmetry isn't a bad idea, though.
Though I’m not completely sure I have it all straight. As I’m understanding it, I think @Dee proposal works. (Minus the divider bar. )I’m certainly all for options. Am I right in assuming that the combat log is off when the dialogue first comes up then?
I'm following this discussion with great interest since the current dialog window design leaves much to be desired.
Please also keep in mind that there are still people playing these games with display resolutions using a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio. Inventing a design that takes up too much space horizontally may cause new issues.
That's an excellent point. If someone has a monitor with a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio who can post a screenshot, that will help identify exactly how much space there is to work with here.
Though I’m not completely sure I have it all straight. As I’m understanding it, I think @Dee proposal works. (Minus the divider bar. )I’m certainly all for options. Am I right in assuming that the combat log is off when the dialogue first comes up then?
Correct; when the conversation window first appears, all you see is the current conversation; nothing from the combat log will show up unless you scroll or click "Show History".
I'm following this discussion with great interest since the current dialog window design leaves much to be desired.
Please also keep in mind that there are still people playing these games with display resolutions using a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio. Inventing a design that takes up too much space horizontally may cause new issues.
That's an excellent point. If someone has a monitor with a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio who can post a screenshot, that will help identify exactly how much space there is to work with here.
I can provide a few 4:3 screenshots in 1600x1200 resolution (using scaled UI).
Perfect. Okay, so here's the updated window proposal, in the context of BGII:EE on a 4:3 display:
We don't have room to add ornamentation on both sides (sorry @Pecca ), but I will point out here that the original game didn't have ornamentation on both sides either. All we're doing is putting the portrait outside of the text box, without removing it from the window entirely.
The other thing this helps to convey is that the combat log is different from the conversation window, which should alleviate some of the dissonance between the two in terms of indentation.
Thank you for that visual @Dee . It is much easier for me to understand. Does the scroll bar actually go all the way to the top, allowing the entire area to be scrolled?
Thank you for that visual @Dee . It is much easier for me to understand. Does the scroll bar actually go all the way to the top, allowing the entire area to be scrolled?
Well, the original didn't have the graphics that would be put under the portrait column, but the positions were the same as in the picture. The text never was under it. I simply pointed that if the graphics was on the left, it would look better if it was also on the right. But I can see that's not possible unless you let the UI check if there is enough room and add the right ornament only if there is.
I would change 'Hide History' to just 'History' as it is a toggle to toggle the history to scrolled down or scrolled offscreen.
Then, I'd suggest to have History button underneath and in the same column as the portrait, and the CONTINUE button in the same column and aligned left on the message window. So something like this:
I find having the history button up under the portrait distracting from a role-play perspective. The less “technical” type stuff around the portrait of the person that I’m speaking to, (during role-play) the better.
Edit: Having the button just say History sounds good to me.
I agree--and in context, you don't want the button to be so small that the text on it can't communicate what it does. (How many people have been confused about the purpose of the Quick Loot gem toggle?)
Whilst that's a fair point - my concern is about misclicking the conversation button vs history button. It's not a big deal...
For me it makes sense for the CONTINUE button to be directly underneath the messages. You read downwards afterall.
So maybe keep them on the button row, but swap the positions of the continue and history buttons, and move history to the far right so Raven can be happy.
Heh… I thought the quick loot button was just extra decoration for the longest time. I still have never used it, but from reading threads here I now know what it is for.
Whilst that's a fair point - my concern is about misclicking the conversation button vs history button. It's not a big deal...
For me it makes sense for the CONTINUE button to be directly underneath the messages. You read downwards afterall.
So maybe keep them on the button row, but swap the positions of the continue and history buttons, and move history to the far right so Raven can be happy.
Please do not do this! I don’t need to hit the History button often, but I do need to click the continue button often in conversation. It should stay on the right.
Edit: If there are to be two buttons. I agree the middle is best if there is only one as it was in ver. 1.3
My point is you read left-right and then downwards.
When you have to click the continue/end conversation button it is now directly underneath what you have read.
If you are viewing the history then your mouse is already on the right handside - and remember this isn't SHOW/HIDE history... because the history is always visible. This is scrolldown history, or scrollup history out of view.
You actually have it backwards; the "Continue" button is the last thing you read on the screen, because it's the thing you click to leave the conversation.
But if it's a toggle, let's make it a proper toggle:
Align it to the left, because it's the thing the player will want to click on before they continue the conversation. (Forgive my Shapes Art here; as always, this is just for illustrative purposes.)
When you scroll, the toggle becomes enabled, but the text doesn't align to the bottom of the screen until you scroll far enough for it to get to the bottom of the screen. If you select the toggle, it will immediately align the text to the bottom to show you that's what it's doing.
Un-ticking that toggle aligns the current conversation to the top of the box, like so:
I kinda agree with Mr2150 in a sense that the Show History button takes too prominent space for button that is essencially not needed (since the player can just scroll up). But I can see an advantage of "Hide history" when you go too far and have to scroll all the way back. So we could only have "hide history" appear somewhere (maybe even on the top) when the player scrolls up to see history and at the bottom have only the continue button, centered. The hide history would disappear upon clicking or if scrolled back to the bottom. Anyway, when placing these buttons, remember that the "continue" button often disappears.
I pick the options on the left hand side of the screen and then when the conversation is over I have to move the mouse across the whole window to click 'end conversation' which is the other function of the continue button.
If my mouse is already on the left to the middle then I want to keep it there.
If the continue button is centered it works better (when it's displayed) but it makes more sense to me for it to be on the left where my mouse already is, in my opinion... certainly aligned off to the right doesn't work.
Here I see the toggle becoming an irritating flashing stop sign. Especially if it comes on and off as you scroll. My mind is constantly going to be taken out of the emersion of the dialogue by that flashing light. The red color is a problem here as well. Red says stop, danger, look at me, forget what you were thinking about and pay attention to me.
Here I see the toggle becoming an irritating flashing stop sign. Especially if it comes on and off as you scroll. My mind is constantly going to be taken out of the emersion of the dialogue by that flashing light. The red color is a problem here as well. Red says stop, danger, look at me, forget what you were thinking about and pay attention to me.
We're not discussing colors here; the red is only because that's what all the toggles in the game currently use. Picture it as a check-box if that's clearer.
But I can see an advantage of "Hide history" when you go too far and have to scroll all the way back. So we could only have "hide history" appear somewhere (maybe even on the top) when the player scrolls up to see history and at the bottom have only the continue button, centered. The hide history would disappear upon clicking or if scrolled back to the bottom. Anyway, when placing these buttons, remember that the "continue" button often disappears.
That solution would work better.
So the HISTORY button is only a HIDE HISTORY (sorry @Dee) and only appears when the user scrolls up - it can then appear anywhere you like apart from the bottom middle
Here I see the toggle becoming an irritating flashing stop sign. Especially if it comes on and off as you scroll. My mind is constantly going to be taken out of the emersion of the dialogue by that flashing light. The red color is a problem here as well. Red says stop, danger, look at me, forget what you were thinking about and pay attention to me.
We're not discussing colors here; the red is only because that's what all the toggles in the game currently use. Picture it as a check-box if that's clearer.
Fair enough, but my point about any flashing buttons stands.
This seems to present a similar problem to what @Mr2150 pointed out earlier, where there's two buttons and the risk of accidentally clicking the wrong one. That might be fixed by making the Hide History button smaller, though.
I would still move the Hide History to the far right, it only appears when I've scrolled up so my mouse is on the scrollbar already - it's on the right - to go back to the current conversation, I can scroll all the way down manually or I can just go to the bottom and hit Hide History.
I then think you will be less likely to hit it accidentally as when picking options your mouse is on the left or in the middle, and if you do need to move to 'continue' or 'end conversation' the history button is much further to the right so you are less likely to hit it by mistake.
@Dee said: This seems to present a similar problem to what @Ravenslight pointed out earlier, where there's two buttons and the risk of accidentally clicking the wrong one. That might be fixed by making the Hide History button smaller, though.
Comments
BG1:EE
SoD
BG2:EE
We don't have room to add ornamentation on both sides (sorry @Pecca ), but I will point out here that the original game didn't have ornamentation on both sides either. All we're doing is putting the portrait outside of the text box, without removing it from the window entirely.
I would change 'Hide History' to just 'History' as it is a toggle to toggle the history to scrolled down or scrolled offscreen.
Then, I'd suggest to have History button underneath and in the same column as the portrait, and the CONTINUE button in the same column and aligned left on the message window. So something like this:
Edit: Having the button just say History sounds good to me.
For me it makes sense for the CONTINUE button to be directly underneath the messages. You read downwards afterall.
So maybe keep them on the button row, but swap the positions of the continue and history buttons, and move history to the far right so Raven can be happy.
Edit: If there are to be two buttons. I agree the middle is best if there is only one as it was in ver. 1.3
When you have to click the continue/end conversation button it is now directly underneath what you have read.
If you are viewing the history then your mouse is already on the right handside - and remember this isn't SHOW/HIDE history... because the history is always visible. This is scrolldown history, or scrollup history out of view.
But if it's a toggle, let's make it a proper toggle:
Align it to the left, because it's the thing the player will want to click on before they continue the conversation. (Forgive my Shapes Art here; as always, this is just for illustrative purposes.)
When you scroll, the toggle becomes enabled, but the text doesn't align to the bottom of the screen until you scroll far enough for it to get to the bottom of the screen. If you select the toggle, it will immediately align the text to the bottom to show you that's what it's doing.
Un-ticking that toggle aligns the current conversation to the top of the box, like so:
Anyway, when placing these buttons, remember that the "continue" button often disappears.
If my mouse is already on the left to the middle then I want to keep it there.
If the continue button is centered it works better (when it's displayed) but it makes more sense to me for it to be on the left where my mouse already is, in my opinion... certainly aligned off to the right doesn't work.
So the HISTORY button is only a HIDE HISTORY (sorry @Dee) and only appears when the user scrolls up - it can then appear anywhere you like apart from the bottom middle
This seems to present a similar problem to what @Mr2150 pointed out earlier, where there's two buttons and the risk of accidentally clicking the wrong one. That might be fixed by making the Hide History button smaller, though.
I would still move the Hide History to the far right, it only appears when I've scrolled up so my mouse is on the scrollbar already - it's on the right - to go back to the current conversation, I can scroll all the way down manually or I can just go to the bottom and hit Hide History.
I then think you will be less likely to hit it accidentally as when picking options your mouse is on the left or in the middle, and if you do need to move to 'continue' or 'end conversation' the history button is much further to the right so you are less likely to hit it by mistake.
This seems to present a similar problem to what @Ravenslight pointed out earlier, where there's two buttons and the risk of accidentally clicking the wrong one. That might be fixed by making the Hide History button smaller, though.
I think it was @Mr2150 who made that point.