Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Making it Work: Conversation Window

24567

Comments

  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    I think it does matter because it's fundamental on how 2.0 can be changed so people like it more. Right now they are two distinct areas - you can't merge two distinct areas with a single scrollbar. You have to merge the areas first.

    If they are merged then you end up with a duplication of the last line of the message history and the current line of dialogue.

  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 265


    @00zim00
    That’s an interesting idea, though I personally think I prefer a blank if it doesn’t have a portrait shot.

    Just add a toggle in the options to turn it off B) . But yeah some might not like it, i just thought if the issue was that there was a blank spot, then might as well put it to good use!

    Ravenslight
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    So we've identified two issues here:
    1. The conversation window is formatted differently than the combat log, because of the portrait
    2. The conversation window consists of three distinct types of message: Conversation, History, and Responses. But three separate scrollbars is cumbersome.
    The second issue is easily fixed by simply combining the three fields into one single, scrollable text box. (That's how it was in v1.3.)

    The first issue is really a matter of display; the conversation window and combat log look similar enough that when it switches, it feels dissonant. Let's call that the Uncanny Valley of UI Design.

    So how about this:





    This puts a unified frame around the conversation window, making it absolutely clear that what you're looking at is not the combat log. It also builds us a space for the portrait, so that even if there is no portrait to display we can see what that space is for. The whole thing still scales up and down in height depending on what's needed for the current conversation.

    Thoughts?

    00zim00sparkleavJairyanna
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    What happens when you scroll up @Dee ?

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    Mr2150 said:

    What happens when you scroll up @Dee ?

    It scrolls back through the conversation history, just like it did in v1.3.

  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    So let's say I had a conversation with Minsc before Ajantis... If I scroll up I'm now showing the portrait of Ajantis against the historic dialogue with Minsc. That's how 1.3 did it and I think that was a bad implementation ...

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    Mr2150 said:

    So let's say I had a conversation with Minsc before Ajantis... If I scroll up I'm now showing the portrait of Ajantis against the historic dialogue with Minsc. That's how 1.3 did it and I think that was a bad implementation ...

    Correct. Let me do another mock-up for that scenario, see if there's a solution.

    Mr2150sparkleav
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 265
    I like the idea at first glance :3
    Dee said:

    It also builds us a space for the portrait, so that even if there is no portrait to display we can see what that space is for.

    Or you can use it for the sprite :p ;)

  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,602
    Mr2150 said:

    So let's say I had a conversation with Minsc before Ajantis... If I scroll up I'm now showing the portrait of Ajantis against the historic dialogue with Minsc. That's how 1.3 did it and I think that was a bad implementation ...

    I’m not sure why you would scroll up past the conversation that you are currently in, but if you did, there are names in front of the dialogue lines. So you would see Minsc’s name to let you know that you have scrolled up out of the current dialogue.

    sparkleav
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    But that's the whole point of having a scrollbar in the conversation window, isn't it?

    So you can see the previous history / conversations / actions ?

    sparkleav
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,930
    Mr2150 said:

    But that's the whole point of having a scrollbar in the conversation window, isn't it?

    So you can see the previous history / conversations / actions ?

    I usually only need it to see the previous text of the conversation I'm in.

    Ravenslight
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    Firstly, let me say - that's great and made me laugh. AJantis is certainly a G&S fan...although I think he prefers HMS Pinafore.

    Secondly, I like that layout - the ability to toggle the history and the separator to define current / previous and it's all in one window.

    JuliusBorisovsparkleav
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    @Pecca - I don't use it that much at all to be honest.

    From my experience with the Dragonspear UI++ the solution you've proposed @Dee is completely possible.

  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,930
    edited August 2016
    I'm using it way too often. But I'm also a guy who always rewinds few seconds of conversations in movies so I don't miss a single word. I'm told that's an annoying habit. :)

    Mr2150loliensparkleav
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,930
    @Dee when you say "button gets rid of all the history", you mean it aligns the current conversation line to the top of the window, right?

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    Pecca said:

    @Dee when you say "button gets rid of all the history", you mean it aligns the current conversation line to the top of the window, right?

    Yes, sorry--that's exactly what I meant. It brings you back to the default view of just the current conversation.

  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    But I'm also a guy who always rewinds few seconds of conversations in movies so I don't miss a single word. I'm told that's an annoying habbit.


    I will never watch a film with you.


    I assumed @Dee meant that it reverts to the top picture of the two shown.

    Pecca
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,602
    It’s entirely possible that I am not completely understanding this, but it feels busy again. Are the divider bars optional? If you don’t click show history, will it work as it did in ver. 1.3?

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    edited August 2016

    It’s entirely possible that I am not completely understanding this, but it feels busy again. Are the divider bars optional? If you don’t click show history, will it work as it did in ver. 1.3?

    The divider bar (and there's only one of them, separating the current conversation from the history) doesn't necessarily need to be there; I wouldn't make it optional, though, because it's so small. If it's really too distracting for a lot of people, I'd just as soon get rid of it.

    Personally I think it helps, but it also wasn't there for eighteen years, so it might not be necessary.

    Mr2150loliensparkleav
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    OK - that's completely possible. I just made it for Dragonspear UI++ to check...


    History is off...



    History is on...


  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,602
    @Dee said:
    I wouldn't make it optional, though, because it's so small. If it's really too distracting for a lot of people, I'd just as soon get rid of it.

    I’d really prefer it was left out. :)

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438

    @Dee said:
    I wouldn't make it optional, though, because it's so small. If it's really too distracting for a lot of people, I'd just as soon get rid of it.

    I’d really prefer it was left out. :)

    In the interest of full disclosure, here's what that would look like:

    Jairyanna
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,930
    edited August 2016
    Mr2150 said:

    But I'm also a guy who always rewinds few seconds of conversations in movies so I don't miss a single word. I'm told that's an annoying habbit.


    I will never watch a film with you.
    Yeah I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. Some people even see it as a form of torture. :)

    I can get behind Dee's layout, but one thing would probably bother me. As it is an element that is centered horizontally in the screen, I think the graphic should be symmetrical. Kinda like PoE did it.

  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,602
    edited August 2016
    I’m confused by that @Mr2150. You have two boxes showing on the screen at once. I know I don’t like that. Also your portrait is outside the box. I can’t tell what is actually being purposed here. Could samples be made that showed the changes without certain mods applied?

    Edit: Also having the box at the top of the screen throws the whole look off for me. It would be really helpful to me to be able to see it only as it is being purposed.

  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    @Ravenslight If you want to mod those - sure... I was just checking it was possible, which it is. Think of it as proof of concept - not final concept.

    I changed the pictures now so it should be clearer now.

  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,602
    Adding artwork to the right side of the box looks nice, but also takes up room. I need as much room as possible for the text so that it can be enlarged.

    This is also a problem that I’ve seen with some modded adaptations, like the one @Mr2150 has shown. Those narrow boxes don’t work well for someone who needs a larger font.

  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    Just to be clear, I'm not proposing you use my solution @Ravenslight - it was demonstrating that what @Dee suggested was entirely possible. I should note however - that DUI++ does adapt the box size for larger text.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    There's a bit of buffer between the edges of the current conversation window and the edges of the screen, so there's room to add ornamentation on the right and left without encroaching on that space; in fact I would say that the text box for the conversation window should probably be the same width as the combat log, so that any ornamentation would sit outside of that space.

    I'm not crazy about PoE's implementation of the portrait, since it sits on top of everything and pulls me out of the world more than I'd like. Having some symmetry isn't a bad idea, though.

    lolien
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 2,667
    I'm following this discussion with great interest since the current dialog window design leaves much to be desired.

    Please also keep in mind that there are still people playing these games with display resolutions using a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio. Inventing a design that takes up too much space horizontally may cause new issues.

    Ravenslightloliendunbarsparkleav
Sign In or Register to comment.