I think it does matter because it's fundamental on how 2.0 can be changed so people like it more. Right now they are two distinct areas - you can't merge two distinct areas with a single scrollbar. You have to merge the areas first.
If they are merged then you end up with a duplication of the last line of the message history and the current line of dialogue.
@00zim00 That’s an interesting idea, though I personally think I prefer a blank if it doesn’t have a portrait shot.
Just add a toggle in the options to turn it off . But yeah some might not like it, i just thought if the issue was that there was a blank spot, then might as well put it to good use!
The conversation window is formatted differently than the combat log, because of the portrait
The conversation window consists of three distinct types of message: Conversation, History, and Responses. But three separate scrollbars is cumbersome.
The second issue is easily fixed by simply combining the three fields into one single, scrollable text box. (That's how it was in v1.3.)
The first issue is really a matter of display; the conversation window and combat log look similar enough that when it switches, it feels dissonant. Let's call that the Uncanny Valley of UI Design.
So how about this:
This puts a unified frame around the conversation window, making it absolutely clear that what you're looking at is not the combat log. It also builds us a space for the portrait, so that even if there is no portrait to display we can see what that space is for. The whole thing still scales up and down in height depending on what's needed for the current conversation.
So let's say I had a conversation with Minsc before Ajantis... If I scroll up I'm now showing the portrait of Ajantis against the historic dialogue with Minsc. That's how 1.3 did it and I think that was a bad implementation ...
So let's say I had a conversation with Minsc before Ajantis... If I scroll up I'm now showing the portrait of Ajantis against the historic dialogue with Minsc. That's how 1.3 did it and I think that was a bad implementation ...
Correct. Let me do another mock-up for that scenario, see if there's a solution.
So let's say I had a conversation with Minsc before Ajantis... If I scroll up I'm now showing the portrait of Ajantis against the historic dialogue with Minsc. That's how 1.3 did it and I think that was a bad implementation ...
I’m not sure why you would scroll up past the conversation that you are currently in, but if you did, there are names in front of the dialogue lines. So you would see Minsc’s name to let you know that you have scrolled up out of the current dialogue.
Here's the window when it first appears; Ajantis is a big fan of Gilbert & Sullivan, apparently.
When you click "Show History", it aligns the text to the bottom of the screen, filling in the top with the rest of the combat log. You don't have to click that button, though; you can just scroll up using the scroll bar or your mouse wheel. When you do...
This is what it looks like. The current conversation gets a divider so you know at a glance what the current dialogue is. As soon as you start scrolling up, the "Show History" button also changes to "Hide History"; clicking that button gets rid of all the history so you can focus on what's in front of you. brings you back to just the current conversation.
Ajantis's portrait stays where it is, because that's who you're talking to in that moment. (You want that portrait there; it reminds you who you're talking to, so that you don't get totally lost during the scrollback.)
I'm using it way too often. But I'm also a guy who always rewinds few seconds of conversations in movies so I don't miss a single word. I'm told that's an annoying habit.
It’s entirely possible that I am not completely understanding this, but it feels busy again. Are the divider bars optional? If you don’t click show history, will it work as it did in ver. 1.3?
It’s entirely possible that I am not completely understanding this, but it feels busy again. Are the divider bars optional? If you don’t click show history, will it work as it did in ver. 1.3?
The divider bar (and there's only one of them, separating the current conversation from the history) doesn't necessarily need to be there; I wouldn't make it optional, though, because it's so small. If it's really too distracting for a lot of people, I'd just as soon get rid of it.
Personally I think it helps, but it also wasn't there for eighteen years, so it might not be necessary.
@Dee said: I wouldn't make it optional, though, because it's so small. If it's really too distracting for a lot of people, I'd just as soon get rid of it.
@Dee said: I wouldn't make it optional, though, because it's so small. If it's really too distracting for a lot of people, I'd just as soon get rid of it.
I’d really prefer it was left out.
In the interest of full disclosure, here's what that would look like:
But I'm also a guy who always rewinds few seconds of conversations in movies so I don't miss a single word. I'm told that's an annoying habbit.
I will never watch a film with you.
Yeah I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. Some people even see it as a form of torture.
I can get behind Dee's layout, but one thing would probably bother me. As it is an element that is centered horizontally in the screen, I think the graphic should be symmetrical. Kinda like PoE did it.
I’m confused by that @Mr2150. You have two boxes showing on the screen at once. I know I don’t like that. Also your portrait is outside the box. I can’t tell what is actually being purposed here. Could samples be made that showed the changes without certain mods applied?
Edit: Also having the box at the top of the screen throws the whole look off for me. It would be really helpful to me to be able to see it only as it is being purposed.
Adding artwork to the right side of the box looks nice, but also takes up room. I need as much room as possible for the text so that it can be enlarged.
This is also a problem that I’ve seen with some modded adaptations, like the one @Mr2150 has shown. Those narrow boxes don’t work well for someone who needs a larger font.
Just to be clear, I'm not proposing you use my solution @Ravenslight - it was demonstrating that what @Dee suggested was entirely possible. I should note however - that DUI++ does adapt the box size for larger text.
There's a bit of buffer between the edges of the current conversation window and the edges of the screen, so there's room to add ornamentation on the right and left without encroaching on that space; in fact I would say that the text box for the conversation window should probably be the same width as the combat log, so that any ornamentation would sit outside of that space.
I'm not crazy about PoE's implementation of the portrait, since it sits on top of everything and pulls me out of the world more than I'd like. Having some symmetry isn't a bad idea, though.
I'm following this discussion with great interest since the current dialog window design leaves much to be desired.
Please also keep in mind that there are still people playing these games with display resolutions using a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio. Inventing a design that takes up too much space horizontally may cause new issues.
Comments
If they are merged then you end up with a duplication of the last line of the message history and the current line of dialogue.
- The conversation window is formatted differently than the combat log, because of the portrait
- The conversation window consists of three distinct types of message: Conversation, History, and Responses. But three separate scrollbars is cumbersome.
The second issue is easily fixed by simply combining the three fields into one single, scrollable text box. (That's how it was in v1.3.)The first issue is really a matter of display; the conversation window and combat log look similar enough that when it switches, it feels dissonant. Let's call that the Uncanny Valley of UI Design.
So how about this:
This puts a unified frame around the conversation window, making it absolutely clear that what you're looking at is not the combat log. It also builds us a space for the portrait, so that even if there is no portrait to display we can see what that space is for. The whole thing still scales up and down in height depending on what's needed for the current conversation.
Thoughts?
So you can see the previous history / conversations / actions ?
Here's the window when it first appears; Ajantis is a big fan of Gilbert & Sullivan, apparently.
When you click "Show History", it aligns the text to the bottom of the screen, filling in the top with the rest of the combat log. You don't have to click that button, though; you can just scroll up using the scroll bar or your mouse wheel. When you do...
This is what it looks like. The current conversation gets a divider so you know at a glance what the current dialogue is. As soon as you start scrolling up, the "Show History" button also changes to "Hide History"; clicking that button
gets rid of all the history so you can focus on what's in front of you.brings you back to just the current conversation.Ajantis's portrait stays where it is, because that's who you're talking to in that moment. (You want that portrait there; it reminds you who you're talking to, so that you don't get totally lost during the scrollback.)
Secondly, I like that layout - the ability to toggle the history and the separator to define current / previous and it's all in one window.
From my experience with the Dragonspear UI++ the solution you've proposed @Dee is completely possible.
I will never watch a film with you.
I assumed @Dee meant that it reverts to the top picture of the two shown.
Personally I think it helps, but it also wasn't there for eighteen years, so it might not be necessary.
History is off...
History is on...
I wouldn't make it optional, though, because it's so small. If it's really too distracting for a lot of people, I'd just as soon get rid of it.
I’d really prefer it was left out.
I can get behind Dee's layout, but one thing would probably bother me. As it is an element that is centered horizontally in the screen, I think the graphic should be symmetrical. Kinda like PoE did it.
Edit: Also having the box at the top of the screen throws the whole look off for me. It would be really helpful to me to be able to see it only as it is being purposed.
I changed the pictures now so it should be clearer now.
This is also a problem that I’ve seen with some modded adaptations, like the one @Mr2150 has shown. Those narrow boxes don’t work well for someone who needs a larger font.
I'm not crazy about PoE's implementation of the portrait, since it sits on top of everything and pulls me out of the world more than I'd like. Having some symmetry isn't a bad idea, though.
Please also keep in mind that there are still people playing these games with display resolutions using a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio. Inventing a design that takes up too much space horizontally may cause new issues.