[MOD IDEA] Weapons (Items) Enhancements
Abel
Member Posts: 785
I recently started and almost completed a new game. I couldn't help but notice that my weapon setups never varied from game to game. Being, admittedly, a powergamer I've no interest in subpar equipment. It's no wonder then that the Flail of Ages, Celestial Fury and Crom Faeyr always find their way into my quick-weapon slots and that I choose the corresponding proficiencies at the expense of other less useful ones.
Well, what if all weapons were made equally useful and enjoyable?
So, I tried Weimer's Item Upgrade mod for more options but although I like its concept I was not entirely satisfied with the way it was handled. Here are a few reasons why:
- New items are made by combining several thus destroying more than one. This is actually bearable since one can't use all available items at the same time (unless one painfully switches everything via inventory). Also, most of the upgrades just unite each item bonuses into one. Still, I'd rather take a different route.
- Recipes are too constraining. I don't think the ingredient gathering part is actually enjoyable. Plus, the various requirements are quite confusing and one needs to inspect the readme list more than once.
- Upgrades lack a progressive aspect and in my opinion, general harmony. I like most of them because they are unique, but I feel that while they're sometimes just right (like the Improved Robe of the Archmagi), some other times they're way better than the best (like the Fulcrum Club).
So I began thinking about different upgrades. Upgrades that would make less powerful weapons more useful.
In all honesty, I don't like nerfing. I'd rather give better but optional tools to players. Which is why I'm not interested in downgrading the best equipment but rather in upgrading everything else.
Will balance be preserved? Well, it depends on how balanced one thinks the existing best options are. Since I'm not really aiming at revising but rather at adding new content, one can chooses whatever suits one's playstyle best.
I know of the other major item mods, especially of Item Revisions which does what it promises excellently. Again, my focus is not revision, though it could be argued that a revision is upgrade or vice-versa. Another difference is I don't feel as compelled by D&D canon or if so, only by AD&D2 (I use this database which, sadly, is in French only).
That said, there's inspiration to take from Item Revisions. It has great modding examples.
Amongst items, weapons are of primary importance which is why I'll start working on them.
Now, I will share my ideas with you. I shall not do much more than brainstorming in the near future. Item modding on itself isn't difficult, thanks to the amazing tools we have. It's really how you mod that's the tricky part. So, any suggestions are welcome!
So, what is this alll about? States define... states of creatures (see there). For example the STATE_POISONED which indicates that a creature is... poisoned!
Now, there's this nice effect named Cast Spell on Condition (number 232). This effect allows us to pick a condition among many and notably the Target State.
If we apply this to weapons, it means we can check the state of the ennemy we hit and cast a spell (which is basically a collection of effects) if it matches with our condition. So, for example I could create a Dagger that inflict diseases and/or ability score penalties on poisoned targets.
The only limitation is the number of states which is as well as their type, fixed. We can add custom states but those require more complicated solutions.
By using states we can add a lot of strategical options and create weapon synergies. So, it would definitely be one of the key concepts behind this mod!
I'm also thinking about the possibility of destroying magical items to retrieve enchantment components (~scrolls). Scrolls requirements and output would be as follows:
- Enchantment : weapon enchantment + 1
- Disenchantment : weapon enchantment - 1 (SoA); weapon enchantment - 2 (ToB)
With maximum enchantment:
- 4 (SoA)
- 5 (ToB)
I'm not yet planning on working on enhancements for items that can already be upgraded or crafted with ingredients. But I'd like to in the future.
With this system, players would have to choose what to enhance first, decide whether they want more weapons with lower enchantments or less but more powerful weapons. I'm not sure yet about how many weapons should be fully upgradable by the end of the game. I'm thinking somewhere along two weapons per character with random scrolls.
At one point I thought it could be interesting to separate pure enchantment (+hit/dmg) from effects. It would be a little complicated to build since all potential enchancements must exist in game thus increasing the number of file to create (see the various versions of the Flail of Ages).
They're also more useful when playing with creatures that have more Hit Points as in the Legacy of Bhaal difficulty.
This one I think would be quite appealing to players.
Basically, you would be able to turn two-handed swords into swords, halberds into axes, spears into daggers, staffs into bludgeoning weapons.
This process would involve, I think, some enchantment cost. Maybe randomized.
The problem again is that every possible combination must be created as a resource.
Obviously, these possibilities grow exponentially with each effect added to the pool. WeiDU could help us though, with its useful CREATE action.
Next, I'll start going into details with enhancements suggestions.
Well, what if all weapons were made equally useful and enjoyable?
So, I tried Weimer's Item Upgrade mod for more options but although I like its concept I was not entirely satisfied with the way it was handled. Here are a few reasons why:
- New items are made by combining several thus destroying more than one. This is actually bearable since one can't use all available items at the same time (unless one painfully switches everything via inventory). Also, most of the upgrades just unite each item bonuses into one. Still, I'd rather take a different route.
- Recipes are too constraining. I don't think the ingredient gathering part is actually enjoyable. Plus, the various requirements are quite confusing and one needs to inspect the readme list more than once.
- Upgrades lack a progressive aspect and in my opinion, general harmony. I like most of them because they are unique, but I feel that while they're sometimes just right (like the Improved Robe of the Archmagi), some other times they're way better than the best (like the Fulcrum Club).
So I began thinking about different upgrades. Upgrades that would make less powerful weapons more useful.
In all honesty, I don't like nerfing. I'd rather give better but optional tools to players. Which is why I'm not interested in downgrading the best equipment but rather in upgrading everything else.
Will balance be preserved? Well, it depends on how balanced one thinks the existing best options are. Since I'm not really aiming at revising but rather at adding new content, one can chooses whatever suits one's playstyle best.
I know of the other major item mods, especially of Item Revisions which does what it promises excellently. Again, my focus is not revision, though it could be argued that a revision is upgrade or vice-versa. Another difference is I don't feel as compelled by D&D canon or if so, only by AD&D2 (I use this database which, sadly, is in French only).
That said, there's inspiration to take from Item Revisions. It has great modding examples.
Amongst items, weapons are of primary importance which is why I'll start working on them.
Now, I will share my ideas with you. I shall not do much more than brainstorming in the near future. Item modding on itself isn't difficult, thanks to the amazing tools we have. It's really how you mod that's the tricky part. So, any suggestions are welcome!
States
I find it really surprising that no mod uses these more extensively.So, what is this alll about? States define... states of creatures (see there). For example the STATE_POISONED which indicates that a creature is... poisoned!
Now, there's this nice effect named Cast Spell on Condition (number 232). This effect allows us to pick a condition among many and notably the Target State.
If we apply this to weapons, it means we can check the state of the ennemy we hit and cast a spell (which is basically a collection of effects) if it matches with our condition. So, for example I could create a Dagger that inflict diseases and/or ability score penalties on poisoned targets.
The only limitation is the number of states which is as well as their type, fixed. We can add custom states but those require more complicated solutions.
By using states we can add a lot of strategical options and create weapon synergies. So, it would definitely be one of the key concepts behind this mod!
Universal recipe, choice and progress
I think it best to have a simple, straightforward recipe. To upgrade a weapon, one would just need a scroll of enchantment and maybe some gold. Then depending on the current level of enchantment of the weapon, more or less scrolls would be required. A fixed number of scrolls would be randomely spread throughout the game.I'm also thinking about the possibility of destroying magical items to retrieve enchantment components (~scrolls). Scrolls requirements and output would be as follows:
- Enchantment : weapon enchantment + 1
- Disenchantment : weapon enchantment - 1 (SoA); weapon enchantment - 2 (ToB)
With maximum enchantment:
- 4 (SoA)
- 5 (ToB)
I'm not yet planning on working on enhancements for items that can already be upgraded or crafted with ingredients. But I'd like to in the future.
With this system, players would have to choose what to enhance first, decide whether they want more weapons with lower enchantments or less but more powerful weapons. I'm not sure yet about how many weapons should be fully upgradable by the end of the game. I'm thinking somewhere along two weapons per character with random scrolls.
At one point I thought it could be interesting to separate pure enchantment (+hit/dmg) from effects. It would be a little complicated to build since all potential enchancements must exist in game thus increasing the number of file to create (see the various versions of the Flail of Ages).
Effects rather than Abilities
Abilities are a bit like spells. The problem with those is that you need to cast them and that you can only do this once per round. I find there are already enough Special Abilities (Innates) and spells to play with, especially when you start getting High Level Abilities. Not only that, I'm a lazy player so I like on-hit effects better than abilities.They're also more useful when playing with creatures that have more Hit Points as in the Legacy of Bhaal difficulty.
[Two-handed weapons to one-handed ones]
I put this and the following idea into brackets to indicate they would be interesting but are not a priority.This one I think would be quite appealing to players.
Basically, you would be able to turn two-handed swords into swords, halberds into axes, spears into daggers, staffs into bludgeoning weapons.
This process would involve, I think, some enchantment cost. Maybe randomized.
[True crafting (player-made weapons)]
I also thought about designing sets of enhancements, generic effects that you could mix and match to enhance any normal weapon.The problem again is that every possible combination must be created as a resource.
Obviously, these possibilities grow exponentially with each effect added to the pool. WeiDU could help us though, with its useful CREATE action.
Next, I'll start going into details with enhancements suggestions.
3
Comments
I agree it's important to be creative. But in the end, let's not fool ourselves either, it's all about damage. Which is why an additional attack can be just the same as a stacking poison/wound effect.
It's kinda similar to using Crom Faeyr in offhand with a higher damage weapon in main hand. It doesn't feel right to me to have the offhand weapon be chosen only for the bonuses it provides to the main hand. I think there are more interesting ways to make interactions between offhand and mainhand than a plain "makes your main hand better" of a +str or + apr bonus.
Here's why what you mentioned in the op about weapons that apply effects under conditions(state diseased etc) would make for interesting and meaningful offhand/mainhand combinations.
I'm not sure if it's possible but I think +apr would be more interesting if you could make it only apply when wielded in main hand, it would then make this particular weapon have more synergy with +dmg type of effects. It's not very original though as combining high apr with flat bonuses is already the most common way of increasing damage output.
I use this method to restrict Bastard Swords, Katanas, Morning-stars, and "Heavy"(2d4) War-hammers to the mainhand, but you could just as well create a dummy category for all APR weapons and restrict just them to the mainhand.
It's true most off-hand weapons serve as almost passive buffs. But I think that's the way it should be since they only hit once (or two) per round. Of course, the problem with this is that it makes shields irrelevant. Since, I'm not nerfing, it may be a good idea to work on enhancing shields next to make them as useful as off-hand weapons.
Quite a good idea from @kjeron to restrict heavy weapons to the main-hand.
Now, I know I promised some suggestions but one of my goal as I said in my first post is to make harmonious improvements. So, it's important to get a good view of the existing system first.
I extracted and mapped a list of all weapons. I filtered the data in categories which should give hindsight on how they work overall.
See the following charts (about 300 entries):
Chart 1 shows that most of the effects are either damage or buffing effects (about 2/3).
Chart 2 shows more details as to what they are. It shows that effects are overall quite simple even though I didn't retrieve more specific data (like sub-types, modifiers and probabilities). Damage is mostly a flat instant modifier. Buffs improve statistics (various). Interestingly, states are often used (about 1/5).
Source:
List continues in the next post.
You're right about dual-wielding. The way it is built makes other options unattractive. That's why I thought about 2H to 1H conversion. But, in away, that's avoiding the issue. So 2H could be rethought to match the attractiveness of 2W. As of now GWW is the only ability that gives them some. Reworking this is a bit out of scope of my original idea though. I think you already did something like that with your mod, no?
- 2handed weapons total enchantment lvl is generally a bit higher
- I more easily give 'while equipped' effects to 2handed weapons
- combat abilities on 2 handed weapons are "50% more effective" (a flaming long sword does 1d4 fire dmg while a flaming greatsword does 1d6) and the % chance to trigger special effects follow more o less the same rule
P.S @subtledoctor I recently discovered all the nice new opcodes and coding possibilities offered by the last patches of EE/SoD...just wow. I'll be back with a big bang.
With this mod, I'll take things slowly so this will be more of a journal for the time being.