What is the point of these potions?

SirBundlesofJoy_1912

I've been playing BG for years, and I still haven't figured out what the point is with the Potions of Insight and Genius.

All I can think of is you would have a cleric or mage quaff one of these before they memorize spells, so you would get more spells to memorize.

Is this the point of these potions? I can't for the life of me figure out what their application is supposed to be. All these years I've just been selling them off because I figured they were useless.

LordVem

Increases chance of memorizing mage spells. This only really matters if you don't reload and your mages or bards have low int.

In BG2 it helps vs mindflayers.

OrlonKronsteen

Yep, potions of genius increase your intelligence and thus your chance to memorize spells. They also allow you to put more spells in your spell book per level than your normal intelligence would allow. For example, one of the most commonly cited benefits is allowing Imoen and Nalia to scribe 9th level spells, which their 17 intelligence won't normally permit. I guess they could also be handy for fighting mindflayers.

Potions of insight seem less useful to me. The only thing I can ever remember using them for is unlocking more options when casting wish spells. In theory they might unlock some dialogue options that appear for characters with high wisdom, but I've never tested this.

Grond0

OrlonKronsteen said:

Yep, potions of genius increase your intelligence and thus your chance to memorize spells. They also allow you to put more spells in your spell book per level than your normal intelligence would allow. For example, one of the most commonly cited benefits is allowing Imoen and Nalia to scribe 9th level spells, which their 17 intelligence won't normally permit. I guess they could also be handy for fighting mindflayers.

Even characters with low intelligence are able to scribe 9th level spells (this was restricted in 2nd edition PnP, but not implemented in the game), although as noted above boosting intelligence gets round the restriction on the number of spells you can learn - they are not lost when intelligence falls again.

Stat increases can also increase lore and hence potentially save you money on identifying things. There are a few conversations that check stats and intelligence is also relevant for being able to use magic items (most only need an intelligence of 9, but the golem manual for instance requires 16).

SirBundlesofJoy_1912

Thanks for the info! Identifying items is a pain. Usually I cheat and give my mage 99 Identify scrolls. There are just so many magic items in this game, I usually use up the 99 scrolls and have to give myself more.

Does anyone know if you can use magic items if they're not identified? I seem to recall being able to fire flame arrows without identifying them, but I'm not sure if they did normal damage or if they added the fire damage. The same applies for magic weapons. If you find a +1 sword and equip it without identifying it, would you get the bonuses?

I'm trying to find a way around having to Identify stuff, and I'm trying to whittle down my cheating a bit. I know I can drag this crap to a temple and get it identified, or have my mage fill his level 1 spell slots with Identify, or buy Identify scrolls, but it's such a drag.

I guess I'm impatient. If I get some cool magic items in the middle of a dungeon, I don't want to have to wait until I go back into town in order to find out what they do.

But I guess that's just part of the game. I know it makes sense that, in game, the PCs wouldn't know what most of these items are. But there are just so many magic items in this game! Especially the freakin' arrows! Enough with the arrows!

OrlonKronsteen

@Grond0 Unfortunately as of BG2EE you need an 18 intelligence to scribe 9th level spells. Great point about lore, I'd forgotten that.

@SirBundlesofJoy_1912 You can indeed use magic weapons without identifying them and you get the bonuses. Make sure, of course, that they aren't cursed. I know what you mean about identifying things. I'm OCD about it and too cheap to pay for the service in shops so I always have one mage with two or three identify slots in their spellbook. A little trick I use to reduce the wastefulness of using spell slots for identify (again, arguably a cheat) is:

The Ring of Wizardry Easter egg doubles your number of 1st level spells, so you can indulge in identify spells while still having slots for sleep, etc..

You probably already know about it but I throw it out there just in case.

JumboWheat01

This is why people need to carry bards around in their party more often. All that sweet, free identification. And they can learn Identify incase their lore doesn't quite cut it yet!

Grond0

OrlonKronsteen said:

@Grond0 Unfortunately as of BG2EE you need an 18 intelligence to scribe 9th level spells. Great point about lore, I'd forgotten that.

@SirBundlesofJoy_1912 You can indeed use magic weapons without identifying them and you get the bonuses.

@OrlonKronsteen Thanks for the info on scribing restriction. That seems a rather bizarre change to make to vanilla BG2 given that you can get round the restriction so easily and can also cast 9th level spells through HLAs, but at least I'll recognise the problem in future in the unlikely event I can't scribe a spell (I almost never use NPCs and a PC mage would be likely to have 18+ intelligence).

You can use magic weapons without identifying them, but most magic items need to be identified first. There are some exceptions, like potions and scrolls, but you have to beware of cursed items there.

SirBatince

insight is pretty cool for wishes

OlvynChuru

Potions of Insight are better in Icewind Dale where there are several wisdom-based dialogue options throughout the game, mainly late in the game. I've used those potions occasionally.

Jaheiras_Witness

Potions of Genius stack beyond 25 (in the sense that the +4 keeps adding up if you lose any points through INT drain). So rather than swig after INT drain, you can PREBUFF a single character to very high INT to clear out a Mindflayer den with minimal risk of death (as long as your saves are safe enough to avoid being stunned).

Both these potions (and particularly Mind Focusing) are great for lore. Rather than spending (spells/scrolls/cash) to keep identifying things, swigging long lasting potions (Insight = 6 hours, Mind Focusing = 12 hours) can let you identify lots of things as you find them.

chimeric

When someone introduces Wisdom and Intelligence-dependent game features, like penalties to saving throws or better dialogue options, then those bottles are going to matter more. Same with Charisma. It's only used for store discounts, so some modders have junked the Friends spell altogether. Obviously the more uses there are for these stats in the game, the better the game's "muscle definition" becomes, you get more distinct nuances and possibilities then.

Raduziel

IDK why BG doesn't use the save bonus from high Wisdom vs mental spells as PnP.

ajwz

They both work very well when used in combination with the semi-cursed potions that set your Str to 25 but your Wis and Int to 3