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So what are the chances of some SoD tie-ins to BG2? (big SPOILERS)

NightingaleNightingale Member Posts: 59
In an update, I mean.

Specifically, I'm hoping for more plot related connections to the Shining Lady conflict. I'm not asking for anything ridiculously huge (I get that including things like the SoD companions would take a LOT of work). But it would be nice to be able to acknowledge that the SoD portion of the saga happened. Maybe a line of dialogue with Jaheira in the beginning of the game where you can point out that Irenicus is the man who framed you for Skie's murder? I would gladly do a no-story mode run of Chateau Irenicus with all my new characters just for that one line of dialogue. And I HATE that place.

Speaking of Skie, I would love a chance to wrap up her storyline in BG2. Nothing too crazy, but it would be nice to find her dagger somewhere (Chateau Irenicus? Spellhold?). Afterward, we could send it and a letter to Duke Silvershield via messenger and tie up that loose end. Maybe we could even get a letter from a revived Skie in ToB, thanking us for our help and explaining that she's cleared our name in Baldur's Gate. (I don't know if that would work lore-wise, but I REALLY want to save her. She worked too hard to become independent during SoD just to spend the rest of eternity wasting away in a dagger, dammit!)

What about all of you? Is there anything you'd like to see referenced from SoD's plot?

Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
DanitheangeldevilSanctiferFemShepRaduzielsmeagolheartnamariecmk24KrotosMaarudsazzie
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Comments

  • In an update, I mean.

    Specifically, I'm hoping for more plot related connections to the Shining Lady conflict. I'm not asking for anything ridiculously huge (I get that including things like the SoD companions would take a LOT of work). But it would be nice to be able to acknowledge that the SoD portion of the saga happened. Maybe a line of dialogue with Jaheira in the beginning of the game where you can point out that Irenicus is the man who framed you for Skie's murder? I would gladly do a no-story mode run of Chateau Irenicus with all my new characters just for that one line of dialogue. And I HATE that place.

    Speaking of Skie, I would love a chance to wrap up her storyline in BG2. Nothing too crazy, but it would be nice to find her dagger somewhere (Chateau Irenicus? Spellhold?). Afterward, we could send it and a letter to Duke Silvershield via messenger and tie up that loose end. Maybe we could even get a letter from a revived Skie in ToB, thanking us for our help and explaining that she's cleared our name in Baldur's Gate. (I don't know if that would work lore-wise, but I REALLY want to save her. She worked too hard to become independent during SoD just to spend the rest of eternity wasting away in a dagger, dammit!)

    What about all of you? Is there anything you'd like to see referenced from SoD's plot?

    I finish yesterday SOD and I had so many question on last chapter exactly with Skie and the Soulstaker dagger. Still I don't know where Irenicus get Soulstaker? From last time I remembered cultist take from me the dagger where they summon demon Aec' Leteca and you never find the dagger. That make me like questionable about the Soulstaker. :grey_question:
    But I like your idea anyway. It'll good if they add some story line from SOD and ofc about Skie. :smile:

    Nightingale
  • NightingaleNightingale Member Posts: 59
    edited September 2016


    I finish yesterday SOD and I had so many question on last chapter exactly with Skie and the Soulstaker dagger. Still I don't know where Irenicus get Soulstaker? From last time I remembered cultist take from me the dagger where they summon demon Aec' Leteca and you never find the dagger. That make me like questionable about the Soulstaker. :grey_question:
    But I like your idea anyway. It'll good if they add some story line from SOD and ofc about Skie. :smile:

    Yeah the sudden reappearance of the Soultaker Dagger is something that left a lot of people scratching their heads at the end of SoD. I never felt that its use by Irenicus was hard to believe though.

    First, nothing in the in-game lore description of the dagger implies that it is a one of a kind artifact. In a world where we can have multiple enchanted short swords, all with the same enchantment and looking exactly the same, it's not too hard to believe that there could multiple Soultaker Daggers as well.

    Second, even if there is only one Soultaker Dagger, it still would have been possible for Irenicus to get his hands on it. I just finished watching someone play through the Aec'letec portion of the first game and at no point does anyone mention that the dagger used to imprison the demon was destroyed during the ritual. The dwarf that sends you to retrieve the dagger, Hurgan Stoneblade, mentions that his clan developed a means of destroying it. But the whole point of that act was to keep the demon from returning to the Prime-material plane. Since Aec'letec did return and you killed him anyway, there was no longer any point in him retrieving the dagger, as the immediate threat had passed. Thus, it is quite possible that the Soultaker Dagger that the cultists stole from you in BG1 survived their ritual and was simply left behind after the battle, leaving it ripe for the picking by Irenicus.

    DanitheangeldevilThacoBellKrotos
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Hell, yeah.

    I turned every stone in SoA looking for this damn Soultaker. Really believed that the developers would tie this loose knot.

    Seems like I was wrong. Damn it.

    NightingaleDanitheangeldevilDaevelonKrotos
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,048
    edited September 2016
    People have periodically complained over the years that BG2 doesn't give CHARNAME an especially strong motivation to go after Irenicus unless CHARNAME happens to be good-aligned or happens to care about Imoen. On the other hand, seeking revenge against the guy who framed you and ruined your life would be a pretty strong motivator for most CHARNAMEs, which makes me think the Skie storyline will very likely be continued in a BG2 expansion. This would actually correct one of BG2's few problems and would further cement its status as one of the all-time great CRPGs.

    NightingaleKrotos
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    . Thus, it is quite possible that the Soultaker Dagger that the cultists stole from you in BG1 survived their ritual and was simply left behind after the battle, leaving it ripe for the picking by Irenicus.

    I hope people aren't just leaving around powerful magic items. I mean there should be something about how Irenicus gets it more than "I found it lying on the ground".

    You mentioned hurgans clan discovered how to destroy it. Well that could be the hook for a story thread for bg2

    Nightingale
  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,247
    I haven't looked at any in-game source material, but wasn't it said that the Soultaker originally belonged to Durlag and was used by him to trap Aec's soul? If so it sounds like it could just be one of those powerful, but not unique magical artifacts, in which case it's perfectly within reason that Irenicus could've created/discovered a copy. Kind of like TES soul gems.

    Nightingale
  • NightingaleNightingale Member Posts: 59

    I hope people aren't just leaving around powerful magic items. I mean there should be something about how Irenicus gets it more than "I found it lying on the ground".

    You mentioned hurgans clan discovered how to destroy it. Well that could be the hook for a story thread for bg2

    Why not? Do you pick up every short sword +1 that you find? Probably not. And if you come back to the same area after a few days, they disappear. SOMEONE has to be cleaning up, no? Why not Irenicus? ;)

    Jokes aside, Irenicus probably didn't just find it lying there and figure "Ah, what the heck?" It's far more likely that he has been watching the CHARNAME for some time before the events of SoD, trying to decide if the strength of his soul would be enough to achieve his goals. It is quite possible that he even observed your fight with the cult and claimed the dagger after you left, the inklings of his plan already coming into focus.

    This of course assumes that the Soul Taker dagger is a one of a kind artifact. Nothing in game implies this. In fact, it's probably the opposite. The weapon is rather mundane apart from its soul stealing capabilities. Take that away and you'd be left with a plain, run of the mill dagger (though it does look pretty cool, and fashion trumps all). With that in mind, it's not too hard to believe that there are multiple Soul Taker daggers in existence, and given Irenicus' obsession with death, it wouldn't surprise me to know that he had one.
    jsaving said:

    People have periodically complained over the years that BG2 doesn't give CHARNAME an especially strong motivation to go after Irenicus unless CHARNAME happens to be good-aligned or happens to care about Imoen. On the other hand, seeking revenge against the guy who framed you and ruined your life would be a pretty strong motivator for most CHARNAMEs, which makes me think the Skie storyline will very likely be continued in a BG2 expansion. This would actually correct one of BG2's few problems and would further cement its status as one of the all-time great CRPGs.

    That is true. Unless your CHARNAME cares for Imoen, there isn't much motivation to chase down the man who kidnapped and tortured you. There is one other angle you could take though, albeit one that really only works for evil/power-hungry CHARNAMEs. Before leaving Chateau Irenicus, Imoen mentions that she thinks your captor wishes to awaken some sort of power in you. CHARNAMEs who lust for power, especially ones of an evil alignment (as they are more likely to embrace their dark heritage than others), could use that as their motivation for finding him. I do agree however that motivation for chapters 1-4 can be a bit lacking outside of those two scenarios. The inclusion of SoD content, like Skie's dagger, could really help fill in that area of the plot.

    ThacoBellKrotos
  • DarkenRevanDarkenRevan Member Posts: 11
    edited September 2016
    I completed SOD yesterday and I was thinking about plot that should be implemented into BG2 since there's a pretty big gap there.

    WARNING SIEGE OF DRAGONSPEAR, BALDUR'S GATE 2, AND THRONE OF BHAAL SPOILERS AHEAD!

    Firstly, I'm going to shift this into a different direction. Caelar Argent’s ending, I think, is left opened. The gate from the Material Plane/Nine Hells could only be closed from one side so Caelar stayed behind to use herself to close it. She then stands guard (or walks away after the cut scene) to kill anything looking to open it again. Of course this is dependent on if you let her fight alongside you to kill the final boss. If you had room for somebody else in your party then she’ll join you as a full blown (secret) companion. If not she’ll fight alongside you as a “blue” ally. You can see where this is going.

    Assuming that she lives through guarding the Nine Hells gate (I mean you don't see her die), you should be able to find her again and rescue her when visiting through the Planar Sphere or maybe in Throne of Bhaal (like Sarevok). I think finding her through the Planar Sphere (SoA) poses a more interesting story and quest for her character. Here’s why:

    I think she should be a join able companion like Sarevok is, except for a good party. I know she hasn’t answered for her crimes yet but BG2 is in Amn, a totally different empire to the south of the Sword Coast that wasn’t involved in SOD. So she should be for the most part incognito since the allies in SOD think she’s dead or stuck in the Nine Hells. Sure there can be quest stuff with people trying to go after her or people (maybe refugees?) that recognize her. This would spice up a companion quest for her that is a road of redemption as a paladin. She could easily get involved with the paladin houses in Athkatla to redeem herself and make things right. I know that in SOD, she’s a fighter but I don’t think she was fully trained or sired yet as a paladin.

    An epilogue for her at the end of TOB could say that she traveled back north as a redeemed paladin to answer for her crimes and repair the damage she caused. The Hero of the Sword Coast and The Shining Lady could go on a quest to do this since they both have reasons to return.

    I know this would be tough to add as an update to BG2 since they would have to add a lot, including dialogue with Iranicus since Caelar and him interacted in SOD as well.

    Secondly, I agree with the whole dagger thing. I think we should be able to find it as a quest and hang onto it for later. By later I mean I have a suspicion that Baldur's Gate Next might have to do with going back to the Sword Coast since rumored places for the game are back north. I know the proposed new game is rumored to be around Waterdeep. There could be something involving bringing the dagger back and showing your innocence even though the dukes and the Flaming Fist smuggled you out of Baldur's Gate and told you to go to a faraway place, you can still do something to revive Skie while on your next quest. Also I know BGNext is supposed to be the end of the Bhaalspawn saga after TOB but who says it can't still feature Gorian's Ward?

    Thirdly, if they don't do a major update BG2, then all these questions can be answered in the new game. Including my proposal for Caelar, the dagger, meeting up with old companions and NPC's again (especially those from SOD). It should be noted that it's possible that Caelar found a way to get out herself or you can try to find her. It would be fascinating to see what happens after staying away from the Sword Coast during BG2 and then returning afterward to redeem yourself and face a new threat.

    I'm afraid we'll have to most likely wait for BGNext and for now use our imaginations after playing SOD and going into BG2 for our true motivation for hunting down Iranicus.

    Post edited by DarkenRevan on
    Danitheangeldevil
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    @DarkenRevan I would put this in spoiler tags due to BG2/TOB spoilers. There is also a mod in development to make Caelar recruitable.

  • cherryzerocherryzero Member Posts: 129
    I was going to say... I doubt beamdog is looking to add even more content to BG2, but the dagger and a Caelar companion would be great additions to an EE 'unfinished business.'

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Realistically speaking, I wouldn't hold my breath on either count. They haven't even been able to commit to a steady patch cycle; adding content - especially with the departure of SoD's writers - isn't something they're going to prioritize anytime soon.

    AndrewFoley
  • DarkenRevanDarkenRevan Member Posts: 11

    @DarkenRevan I would put this in spoiler tags due to BG2/TOB spoilers. There is also a mod in development to make Caelar recruitable.

    Yeah I did now. At first I decided not to because the thread title has spoilers in the name but I forgot to consider BG2 and TOB spoilers.

    I was going to say... I doubt beamdog is looking to add even more content to BG2, but the dagger and a Caelar companion would be great additions to an EE 'unfinished business.'

    Yeah it makes sense story wise since they released BG2EE before SOD.
    shawne said:

    Realistically speaking, I wouldn't hold my breath on either count. They haven't even been able to commit to a steady patch cycle; adding content - especially with the departure of SoD's writers - isn't something they're going to prioritize anytime soon.

    Yeah that's true. Like I said, when playing BG2EE we'll just have to use our imagination for now in regards to taking into account SOD and our real reason for wanting to go after Iranicus so much.

    I'm interested in seeing what Baldur's Gate Next is going to be. I'd certainly be interested in a post-SOD and BG2 game still featuring Gorian's Ward (but not having to do with Bhaalspawns-since the new game is supposed to be the end of the saga) returning to the Sword Coast after being told to leave in SOD. It just bugs me there's still so many questions in regards to leaving the Sword Coast so abruptly, resurrecting Skie, what happened to Caelar, leaving on bad terms with SOD companions (especially Corwin) and major NPC's (the dukes, Duncan, and literally all of BG). The new game is supposed o be on the Sword Coast. It makes sense to return to make things right and face a new evil.

  • cherryzerocherryzero Member Posts: 129
    For me, I'd be happy to return to the sword coast, but would rather leave the bhaalspawn in the shelf. By the end of ToB s/he is pretty god-like. There would be no challenge left in the mundane areas of the sword coast, or none that make any sense for the rest of the population to live through.

    I'd rather start a new story with new characters where things like goblins and orcs present a challenge and have some impact on the story.

    NightingaleDanitheangeldevilRaduzielKrotos
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,629
    edited September 2016
    i see it like this. if beamdog does not add the sod npcs or the unresolvuled plot points into bg2. modders will.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,048
    shawne said:

    Realistically speaking, I wouldn't hold my breath on either count. They haven't even been able to commit to a steady patch cycle; adding content - especially with the departure of SoD's writers - isn't something they're going to prioritize anytime soon.

    As free content, no. As a paid expansion -- perhaps.

  • DarkenRevanDarkenRevan Member Posts: 11
    ajwz said:

    That Irenicus fellow was pretty interesting. Maybe they could continue his storyline?

    Play Baldur's Gate 2.

  • cherryzerocherryzero Member Posts: 129

    ajwz said:

    That Irenicus fellow was pretty interesting. Maybe they could continue his storyline?

    Play Baldur's Gate 2.
    I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm on the part of ajwz. And well played I might add.

  • Grimo88Grimo88 Member Posts: 191
    One lingering plot thread no one seems to talk about is Ashatiel's brother. In a cutscene she mentions the fate of her brother to Caelar, and seems to pin responsibility on the Bhaalspawn. So what's that all about?

  • DarkenRevanDarkenRevan Member Posts: 11
    edited September 2016

    ajwz said:

    That Irenicus fellow was pretty interesting. Maybe they could continue his storyline?

    Play Baldur's Gate 2.
    I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm on the part of ajwz. And well played I might add.
    Yeah I thought so. I know they didn't reveal who the Hooded Man was in SOD (by name).
    Grimo88 said:

    One lingering plot thread no one seems to talk about is Ashatiel's brother. In a cutscene she mentions the fate of her brother to Caelar, and seems to pin responsibility on the Bhaalspawn. So what's that all about?

    Sarevok killed her brother/gave orders to have him killed. He was just a businessman according to the Forgotten Realms wiki. So she directly blames all Bhaalspawns for it and joined the crusade (as a form of vengeance for her devastation due to her brothers death). That's why in SOD she disagrees with Caelar about how to deal with you, doesn't trust you, and wants you dead, hence the duel between both of you. That was such a great duel...as an inquisitor I let her buff up, then used dispel magic, and then killed her in 2-3 hits while she didn't even hit me once. She's from Waterdeep by the way and was in their armed forces till the crusade started.

    One thing that confuses me about her is that she has wings but she's human according to the wiki. I guess she might have divine blood in her like Caelar which may have made her trustworthy and rise in the ranks so fast to become her most trusted general. I thought she was an Avariel (like Aerie in BG2).

    cherryzero
  • cherryzerocherryzero Member Posts: 129
    I just assumed she was an Avariel... she's human?! Go figure.

  • DarkenRevanDarkenRevan Member Posts: 11
    edited September 2016

    I just assumed she was an Avariel... she's human?! Go figure.

    I mean it's possible that the wiki is wrong (has Beamdog as a reference though) but I highly doubt an Avariel would be from a noble family in Waterdeep. It's possible shes the descendant of an Avariel but still has the wings through the bloodline even though shes considered human.

    Post edited by DarkenRevan on
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,910
    Ashatiel is an elf according to bdashati.CRE, not human. This can explain her wings (Avariel).

  • DarkenRevanDarkenRevan Member Posts: 11

    Ashatiel is an elf according to bdashati.CRE, not human. This can explain her wings (Avariel).

    Good to know. I edited the Forgotten Realms wiki so her race is Avariel now.

  • DarkenRevanDarkenRevan Member Posts: 11
    edited October 2016

    Ashatiel is an elf according to bdashati.CRE, not human. This can explain her wings (Avariel).

    Alright. The guy that edits the page undid the revision saying he can't find anything on that. What is bdashati.CRE anyway? Can you show me the text? I have the Steam version so I don't think I have the file...or I just can't find it.

    Post edited by DarkenRevan on
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,048
    The creature (.cre) file for Ashatiel provides her in-game stats. If the creature file says she is an elf, then she is an elf in SoD (though not necessarily for the Realms as a whole if other writers/creators have depicted her as human).

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,910
    In order to see this file, you have to use NearInfinity.

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