Picking the right class for a dwarf.
Cnut
Member Posts: 9
Good day,
I used to play Baldur's Gate 2 many years ago and finally made myself to buy EE. As far as I love this game there is one problem I have to deal with - picking the class. I really need the class that fits me, otherwise I won't find game enjoyable at all, though I would be grateful for your help.
My obvious choice for most games is being a tank and I would really love to be a tank in BG2:EE, however I have read that there is no such a thing as a traditional tank. I really do not want to play Fighter/Mage - firstly it is too popular, secondly I don't find it interesting. I was thinking about Dwarven Defender, but heard it is not too good at endgame. Are there any melee classes that can tank?
Another option is to be a tank/dps hybrid. Was thinking about fighter cleric dwarf with warhammer and some heavy armor. It really fits for me to be a dwarf with some big war hammers doing some massive damage.
On the other hand, thief is an interesting option. I was thinking about dwarf fighter thief with dual wielding daggers or scimitars. Like a deadly scout. Any other thief combos worth looking at?
Is fighter/cleric with hammers and/or flails viable? Is DD a good tank?
What is the best endgame choice?
I can start weak, but would love to be killing machine at the end. I like this feeling of progression. Like, you start as no-one, but end as a Dwarven king with golden heavy armor standing alone on the battlefield tanking the whole enemy wave. And, being a dwarf would be awesome.
Any help would be much appreciated, thank you in advance.
Greetings!
I used to play Baldur's Gate 2 many years ago and finally made myself to buy EE. As far as I love this game there is one problem I have to deal with - picking the class. I really need the class that fits me, otherwise I won't find game enjoyable at all, though I would be grateful for your help.
My obvious choice for most games is being a tank and I would really love to be a tank in BG2:EE, however I have read that there is no such a thing as a traditional tank. I really do not want to play Fighter/Mage - firstly it is too popular, secondly I don't find it interesting. I was thinking about Dwarven Defender, but heard it is not too good at endgame. Are there any melee classes that can tank?
Another option is to be a tank/dps hybrid. Was thinking about fighter cleric dwarf with warhammer and some heavy armor. It really fits for me to be a dwarf with some big war hammers doing some massive damage.
On the other hand, thief is an interesting option. I was thinking about dwarf fighter thief with dual wielding daggers or scimitars. Like a deadly scout. Any other thief combos worth looking at?
Is fighter/cleric with hammers and/or flails viable? Is DD a good tank?
What is the best endgame choice?
I can start weak, but would love to be killing machine at the end. I like this feeling of progression. Like, you start as no-one, but end as a Dwarven king with golden heavy armor standing alone on the battlefield tanking the whole enemy wave. And, being a dwarf would be awesome.
Any help would be much appreciated, thank you in advance.
Greetings!
4
Comments
Would you call fighter/cleric a character that is good, or rather just viable? Does it require skill and planning?
I do not really care about dmg when main protagonist is being concerned. I just want to be an unkillable brick, like a general on the epic battleground, like a last man standing there. I do really fell connected with my character, especially in BG2, creating it's unique history and creating it's history in my mind.
Ok, my ideal character is the one that requires large amount of skill, planning, is not a caster (but can be connected to the magic - like cleric here, or force blader in Cabal or guardian in GW2), is a fronliner (massive defense, like the the guardian in GW2 or priest in Tera, with which I could take the whole raid and stand still, no damage, but nearly unkillable).
So I assume it is better to pick fighter/cleric than Dwarven Defender. And it somehow makes sense. Fighter/cleric dwarf really fits my plan.
At first I've read it is much better to be a fighter/thief or fighter/mage (which I do really kind of hate) or ranger/cleric, but it is nice to hear that fighter/cleric can be a thing.
My only concern then is what weapons to pick when creating a character. I've read that flails are very strong. I'd rather pick dual wielding than 2-handed weapon. Can war hammers be useful at endgame? They do fit dwarf.
If anyone has any other suggestion regarding the class for dwarf then do not hesitate to share them with me.
Thank you.
@Grum
In my opinion there are four ways of playing a dwarf:
1) The Fighter/Cleric way
2) The Dwarven Defender way
3) The Bounty Hunter way
4) The wrong way
Not to create new topic, I gave max for str, con, dex and wis. 11 int. Isn't charisma more important than 11 int or 18 wisdom?
At the moment Hammer Wielding Fighter/Cleric is the only way to do it.
There's some really good hammers so no worries there, even a throwing one so you could skip sling proficiency if you wanted (and rely on spiritual hammer until you find it) or just 1 pip (for simplicity). Maybe add mace later.
Could always take Korgan, Yan Yansen and Mazzy along to make the shorty power team.
Fighter/cleric is a very very strong class, you'll have a great time and be just as strong as you want, good luck!
For the OP, a fighter/Cleric is certainly a strong choice. As a dwarf you get the best saves possible, the highest constitution, and all the dexterity you need (after 18 a Meele class gets no benefit). Even strength isn't an issue. Str19 with tome, boosted with draw upon holy might and the Cleric ring means getting Str25 won't be an issue.
I highly recommend dual flails. Defender of Easthaven with your lvl1 spell that gives damage resistance makes you a tank extraordinaire. Add on the helm of dumathoin for extra tankiness, and the flail of ages for DPS/debuffing, and you are set.
While you can't pick a diety named class, you get to be a fighter/cleric which is as Dwarven as you can get.
However for Charname, this Dwarven deity fits well for headcanon:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Marthammor_Duin
As an expatriate and a wanderer, Charname fits this god perfectly.
Also, ALL melee classes can tank. Especially dwarves, but there's enough equipment to make pretty much anyone close to immortal. This is not an MMORPG, but a F/C dwarf is more than capable of both taking and dealing ridiculous amounts of damage. The only drawback is the lower APR, but APR is over-rated anyways and Gm isn't really needed in any way. There are alot of great scimitars but you will have enough pips to use more than just one weapon type anyways, so if you make this char you can use both daggers and scimis. Yes, yes and yes. IMHO, the F/C dwarf is among the "best" (meaning most versatile and with great survivability) of all class/race combos. Gnome F/I would be another great choice. This sounds more like a F/C or even a berzerker dwarf.
I had a run with a F/C dwarf (hammers and flails), Korgan (axes and bastard swords), Jan Jensen (xbow and short bow) and Mazzy (ss and modded for slings, but could just as well kept her on shortbows). This little team of shorty power trashed anything and everything in SoA and ToB. But ofc, you have to let Mazzy stay at home every now and then while you entertain Korgan's bloodlust
Dwarven Defenders can be really fun if what you want is "a dwarven king with golden heavy armor standing alone on the battlefield tanking the whole enemy wave."
I solo'd BG1 as a dwarven defender. That included beating both Drizzt and Sarevok. I wouldn't recommend it for a new player, and it took loads of potions, but it was doable. There is no class that lets you take on Sarevok like that, going toe-to-toe except the dwarven defender.
In BG1, start off by getting Bently's Buckler in the Friendly Arm Inn ASAP. This pushes your Con up to 20, so you start healing naturally. When you rest/travel your HP goes up to full. That is huge, though mostly in a solo run. You'll get the 20 Con 'naturally' from the tome.
You also get the golden armor in BG1, in Durlag's Tower. Sure, it's only for BG1, but it is a suit of armor made for a dwarven hero, and it is golden. Great stuff there! Durlag's Tower also gives you a helmet that makes you immune to fear, and a chalice that heals all of your HP (great for a dwarven defender who will have a ridiculous amount of HP). Getting the chalice refueled is really cheap too.
In BG2, a dwarven defender sadly works best when dual wielding. Defender of Easthaven gives 20% physical damage resistance. Combined with your 'natural' 20% physical damage resistance and defensive stance gives you late game 90% physical damage resistance. With the Helmet of Dumathoin giving you +3% physical damage resistance and +2 con, you'll be a tanking beast.
If you don't care about your alignment, the hell trials give you another +2 con. Add in the machine of Lum the Mad, and you end up with 25 Constitution. Take that with your 93% physical damage resistance, and laugh at your foes.
Against mages, you get shorty saves, and can quite easily get 50% resistance to magical damage (via a belt) and 40% magical resistance (Lum, Hell, Necklace, Ring, Enkidu's Armor).
For your main hand, your best bet is either a hammer or axe. Hammers are better in BG1, but if you are willing to go the evil route in the hell trials (which RP wise doesn't mean picking necessarily evil choices, IMO)...you end up with Str 22 (23 if you take the time to game the deck of many things). That's more than enough strength, so you don't need Crom.
What you could do instead is take the Axe of the Unyielding, and let someone else in the party take the +1 Con from Lum the Mad. The Axe gives you +1 AC (goes along with the +1 from the Defender of Easthaven), +1 Con (So 25 Con if you go evil, 24 Con if you go good), regeneration, and a 10% chance to autokill enemies.
This just leaves you with elemental resistances to worry about. Cloak of Reflection gives 100% electricity resistance, ring of fire control gives 50% fire resistance and boots of the north give 50% cold resistance. The only thing you won't be resistant to is acid, which isn't that common anyways.
Str23 (10% chance to kill non-boss enemies)
Dex18 (all you need)
Con25
Int11
Wis(doesn't really matter)
Cha(doesn't really matter, can throw on the ring of human influence for 18 when needed)
Physical Resistance: 93%
Magic Damage Resistance: 50%
Magic Resistance: 40%
Electricity Resistance: 100%
Fire Resistance: 50%
Cold Resistance: 50%
High AC and regenerate HPs.
Great shorty saves
You won't find a better tank than this...
Thank you very much for answers.
- It's much much easier with a character at least part mage
- Between DD and F/C, it's easier with F/C
- Soloing in general requires good knowledge of the game. It seems you haven't played in a while and are basing your playthrough on other people's advice. You really should play with a party first in order to get back into it.
I will for sure play with the team, I was just curious. Thank you.
A spellcaster and fighter that can incapacitate his enemies, lower with spells his AC of more than 10 points, this including also the lowering enemy's thac0, and have spells to make himself completely invulnerable against physical damage, can become immune to every school of spells, dispel and debuf his enemies and double his apr is not rubbish. And I am not talking of the high level spells that he will gain in late game, that allow him to open the battle with 3x ADHW or create a duplicate of himself to double again the APR.
Simulacrum + IH is a total of 4 x APR, at the cost of loosing 1/2 apr, do the math, he can outdamage every other classes.
You can tell that there is a helm for simulacrum and your mage can give you IH, and is true, but is also true that the F/M can do that all by himself, making the helm and the party mage spell available for an other party member. using IA he can buff himself in a very short time and also help the party's mage to buff the others. And the spells have only a certain duration, the fastest the party buffs the longer the buffs last in battle.
Calculating the damage he deals (4x apr) and the damage increment that he give to the other fighters (1 more simmy in the battle and maybe 1 more IH fighter) is the best physical damage dealer in the game, even if he don't use a single MM in the battle. And his simulacrum and IH will not be dispelled, if he and the simmy use a certain protection, the ones of a fighter can be dispelled easily, a single DM and the fighter is no more hasted and the helm simmy gone until the next day.
I know that the OP don't want an arcane caster, so F/M is not the good choice for him, but I find that what you told is not true. He is not the best mage of the game and, unbuffed, is also not the best damage dealer or tank, but if he buffs with his spells he becomes so.
He shine only if he don't try to be a fighter or a mage, as in both classes he is not the best.
But when he realize that he can mix the 2 classes he becomes the best fighter in the game and a more than respectable support mage if the battle is better fought with magic means.
This is also true, and even more true, for the kitted or unkitted duals. GM, final higher mage level and more customizable choosing the kits.
The FMT is different but not less powerful, access to 3 HLA pools (UAI and Assassination), a lot of utility, traps, scouting and backstabbing and potentially frees the place taken by the party's thief for an other fighter or useful char. But he will have a slower level progression, on average a couple of levels, sometimes 3, behind a single class, and never reach lev9 arcane spells.
He is the best for soloing, but still very powerful in a 6 people's party even if is better with 3-4 people ones.
There is also a fantastic hammer, but you find it quite later, and it adds a fantastic effect, but an effect that a cleric can easily replicate many battles a day with a low level spell (low level, but scales with the caster's level). I find that hammer really underused if used by a cleric, much better use the spell and give the hammer to an other fighter so 2 of your party members can fight with +7 thac0 and +14 damage.
Using it yourself both you and the party loose something.
The throwing one instead is very good for you, use it, but don't spend more of 1 or 2 proficiency point on that.
EDIT: str 18/93 with 95 roll
the /93 for a cleric is not so important as he have at least 3 spells to rise his natural str, or the str that he gets from items, not completely uniseful, but less important than with other classes.
95 total, specially if is also minmaxed, imo is too much, it make you too powerful and the game becomes less challenging and satisfying, unless you play LoB or a hard modded game.
On average my charnames have 10 points less and I find them perfectly adeguate for the game with difficulty enhancers that I usually play. I have years of experience with this game so I can handle most of the situations with more efficiency and effectiveness than people less experienced, but in a vanilla game 95 is too much anyway, a game is funny to play if the right balance is reached, too easy give no satisfaction, too hard is just frustrating an masochistic.
And don't get me wrong, I told " I have years of experience" but in those boards and in this topic partecipate people with more experience and knowledge than me, I don't want to appear something special, for many of us BG is a lifetime love and dedication
I have played both Halfling and Dwarven BHs and I found the Dwarven BH more powerful in melee/backstabbing and more powerful in trap-setting, at least at low levels. The Halfling is a somewhat better utility thief definitely, but to me the extra starting skill points are not worth the -1 strength for a bounty hunter if you plan to backstab. The Halfling is a better ranged combatant at low levels, although with that 19 strength Dwarves can pile on the throwing dagger damage if you wish.
The Gnome is also a good choice, but I would miss the Dwarven starting racial bonus spread and the poison save bonuses. Strength is not an issue for Gnomes like it is for Halflings and most importantly neither is dexterity which is a big plus for Gnomes versus Dwarves, but I would rather have the poison saves, the high constitution, and the starting mechanical racial bonuses of the Dwarf.
And of course there is the stylish Dwarven hooded thief avatar to consider...
STR damage bonus is added to the backstab and don't get multiplied, I find that also 25 STR so 14 more dmg is not life changing, when you reach a good multiplier and use the right weapon. With the str bonus he gains also some thaco, so some more chances to hit.
On average you will have some more backstabs that kill the enemy outright, but is not like backstabbing with staff of striking/staff of the ram vs using a sword.
Is only that, or I am missing something?
True, the strength belts make this moot, but perhaps the player wants those for other NPCs. The Hell trials and Lum can of course also address this, but that is a long way into the game. The Dwarf (or Gnome) can have that 19 strength already in mid-BG. My 17-18 strength Halfling just never seemed to be a strong backstabber, while I notice the difference with my Dwarf.
It is not the only thing, but another factor to consider. That Halfling strength has to be addressed somehow.