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Fatigue!

MeaninglessMeaningless Member Posts: 51
edited October 2016 in General Modding
Since the Specialist ordeal was sorted out, on to the next thing: Fatigue.

Is there a way to prevent a character from being fatigued?
I don't know exactly how the game does it, but it seems the longer characters remains awake and without rest, fatigue piles up higher and the characters perform worse and worse. THAT IS INCREDIBLY COOL! =]

I like to add a fatigue point (or a chance to get a fatigue point) to IMBA spells and abilities such as Improved Haste/Alacrity plus others, and to tag most dungeons and dangerous areas as CANNOT REST flag, so it increases the challenge/immersion/realism and makes players more mindful about how to use their arsenals, because that behaviour of "use everything rest/repeat" is disappointing and reduces the epicness of the game, however many players resort to it so long it remains an option.

I digress, back to the Fatigue state, is it possible to prevent or to reset without having to rest?

Would be very interesting to use this effect on some spell/abilities/items, an initial item in BG2 comes to mind:

Ring of Sustenance: Some time after being freed from your cell, you noticed this ring was at your finger. By the markings in the skin, it seems you have worn it for some time. It apparently is one of the means by which the mage and your captors had you drugged and barely conscious for such a long time, without impairing your overall health in the proccess: This ring will sustain its user without need for food or sleep.

Equipped abilities: Immune to Fatigue.
(Sorry for the quickly assembled description, English ain't my main ^^, but you get the idea.)

Anyway, messing around with fatigue interests since it can be used to "finely balance" some stuff, but it currently goes only up and will not go down without resting or the specific effect that also restores items/spells and this complicates matters.

So, I'm just posting here in hopes somebody has a magical solution/alternative, but I will likely have to post this in the "LIMBO" that is the feature requests, that section is scary, a few good requests that get hidden and forgotten amidst so many lame requests (which mine will be to many others).

Who has the magical solution? CMON TEEEELLL MEEE :)

kamuizin

Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Meaningless
  • MeaninglessMeaningless Member Posts: 51
    Hope you can find a sure/easy/simple way, I don't have a IWD EE copy myself or installed here, a friend has.

    The only thing I've seen that does something close is unable to control fatigue in a reliable way:

    #316 (0x316) Spell: Magical Rest [316]
    Description:
    This effect will refresh spells and remove any fatigue.

  • seraglioseraglio Member Posts: 120
    Hi. I'm by no means an expert, trying to become one, but not there yet. But it so happens I've played with Fatigue, as well as the related luck and Intoxication for a while now. I'll offer a few insights from my limited testing.

    Everything you need to know is probably in fatigmod.2da. Fatigue actually modifies Luck....which by the way does not actually work at all the ways its supposed to in BG:EE. Fatigmod and intoxmod.2da however allow you to "access" the original "luck" the way it used to work. SO when you're PC's are getting tired, they're getting a luck malus that reduces attack, damage, and saves by -1 at 7 fatigue. That malus is BRUTAL...I've used it on enemies and its laughable...they cant hit anything and when they do they do minimum possible damage. Fatigue is one of the strongest effects in the game. At 26, you can only hit a target on a natural 20. A tired party becomes really useless really fast. I don't use haste/berzerk or restoration anymore once I realized how it works...not worth it.

    As far as unfailing endurance, sppr423, it SETs fatigue to 4. In my experience, which is reinforced if you do some searches on fatigue, fatigue is handled by either some "heartbeat" style script or local variable. It is SET based on the last time you rested....PERIOD. Nothing can reduce that permanently other than rest or magical rest, and the number is reSET periodically (not sure on the timing). In other words, it only goes one way..up. A spell to reduce fatigue by incrementing a negative doesn't seem to work in my testing, it gets cleared eventually. Setting it may work better than incrementing..for a time at least, haven't played with unfailing endurance, but I assume it works. Just know the game checks and increments fatigue periodically based on last rest, which may or may not wipe out any changes you implemented.

    Protection from opcode 93 and special effect icon 39 will make you immune to the luck malus.

    Meaningless
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Meaningless
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,322
    seraglio said:

    It is SET based on the last time you rested....PERIOD. Nothing can reduce that permanently other than rest or magical rest, and the number is reSET periodically (not sure on the timing). In other words, it only goes one way..up. A spell to reduce fatigue by incrementing a negative doesn't seem to work in my testing, it gets cleared eventually. Setting it may work better than incrementing..for a time at least, haven't played with unfailing endurance, but I assume it works. Just know the game checks and increments fatigue periodically based on last rest, which may or may not wipe out any changes you implemented

    Fatigue accepts modifications, positive, negative or set, just fine, and even has a dedicated opcode for doing so. The periodic adjustment from time increments the value, it does not set it. Resting, magical or natural, is the only thing that will forcibly set it's value, back to zero.
    seraglio said:

    Fatigue actually modifies Luck....which by the way does not actually work at all the ways its supposed to in BG:EE.

    What are you expecting from Luck that it does differently?

    Meaningless
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,820
    If you prohibit people from resting in dungeons, they'll simply leave the dungeon and rest somewhere else. It makes the game more tedious, because now instead of just being able to rest wherever they want they have to do a lot of backtracking.

    gorgonzola
  • MeaninglessMeaningless Member Posts: 51
    edited October 2016



    But that's okay, since @Meaningless wants to have spells positively increment fatigue. I might...

    *scratches head... NOOO!!
    Lol

    I mean, incrementing fatigue is easy enough with the 93, the proplem is reduce/reset it without resting, and also an effect/opcode that makes a creature immune to fatigue.
    kjeron said:

    Fatigue accepts modifications, positive, negative or set, just fine, and even has a dedicated opcode for doing so.

    Haven't tried it in EE yet, so maybe I created a topic jumping to conclusions, however, in vanilla I tried to reduce or set fatigue and none would work, it appeared like it worked initially, but fatigue would always come back to its FULL EXTENT (as if it was never reduced or set) after a little while, maybe a turn or an hour, can't remember.

    If you prohibit people from resting in dungeons, they'll simply leave the dungeon and rest somewhere else. It makes the game more tedious, because now instead of just being able to rest wherever they want they have to do a lot of backtracking.

    This likely gonna be a mod and only if doc makes it since I mod for myself and a small circle, beamdog devs don't have the guts to do something like that, they are more adept to "hold your hand" style of gameplay.

    So its up to you if you use it or not, to me its quite necessary as an element of immersion, the things is, most players want immersion but are too moronic to make the necessary commitments, so they will exploit whatever is at hand if left free to do so, and in the end this just decreases their own enjoyment of the game.

    Post edited by Meaningless on
  • MeaninglessMeaningless Member Posts: 51
    edited October 2016

    I might do something like, 1st-level spells don't have any effect; 2nd- through 6th-level spells have a 15% chance per level to add +1 fatigue (so 30% for 2nd-level spells and 90% for 6th-level spells); 7th/8th level spells add +2 fatigue, and 9th/10th-level spells add +3 fatigue.

    OMG I just feeded a monster =O

    Lol, altough you will ultimately do what you wish, some input from my part is to refrain the fatigue increase for those powerful spells that really unbalance the game, like Improved Alacrity, Improved Haste, and whatever you consider to be a real deal, so that these spells have a downside. It even makes sense because these spells/effects push the limits of the body in a sense. For example I have my haste (3rd circle) with a chance to increase fatigue for everyone the spell affects, this chance increases with level since the duration of the spell also increases per level, and haste is a pretty good/reliable spell.

    Post edited by Meaningless on
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  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678


    Is there a way to prevent a character from being fatigued?
    ..........................................................
    Would be very interesting to use this effect on some spell/abilities/items, an initial item in BG2 comes to mind:

    Ring of Sustenance: Some time after being freed from your cell, you noticed this ring was at your finger. By the markings in the skin, it seems you have worn it for some time. It apparently is one of the means by which the mage and your captors had you drugged and barely conscious for such a long time, without impairing your overall health in the proccess: This ring will sustain its user without need for food or sleep.

    Equipped abilities: Immune to Fatigue.

    In the tactics ritual component of the tactics mod there is a cursed amulet that has among his effects the one to make who use it immune to fatigue. The fatigue icon still appears, but the effects of fatigue are prevented. You can download the mod and check the amulet, adding an opcode to don't have the fatigue icon displayed should be simple, understand which of the many effects the item has is the one that removes fatigue can be a little more complicated, but not impossible.
    Hope it helps.

    Meaningless
  • seraglioseraglio Member Posts: 120
    kjeron said:

    seraglio said:

    It is SET based on the last time you rested....PERIOD. Nothing can reduce that permanently other than rest or magical rest, and the number is reSET periodically (not sure on the timing). In other words, it only goes one way..up. A spell to reduce fatigue by incrementing a negative doesn't seem to work in my testing, it gets cleared eventually. Setting it may work better than incrementing..for a time at least, haven't played with unfailing endurance, but I assume it works. Just know the game checks and increments fatigue periodically based on last rest, which may or may not wipe out any changes you implemented

    Fatigue accepts modifications, positive, negative or set, just fine, and even has a dedicated opcode for doing so. The periodic adjustment from time increments the value, it does not set it. Resting, magical or natural, is the only thing that will forcibly set it's value, back to zero.
    seraglio said:

    Fatigue actually modifies Luck....which by the way does not actually work at all the ways its supposed to in BG:EE.

    What are you expecting from Luck that it does differently?

    I've tested fatigue two ways. Once I set opcode 93 to -26 on an on equip item. I rested, Equipped item. Never got a luck bonus, as though numbers less that 0 aren't accepted. I did not see anything in my character sheet in Shadowkeeper either, in fact I only ever see "natural" fatigue there. Very limited test though, it may not work that way. I wasn't trying to reduce my actual fatigue so much as get a luck bonus.

    I then modified fatigmod.2da to start becoming positive after about 50. That gave a positive bonus on rolls to attack, damage, and I think saves. That bonus however simply went away after some time traveling without rest, whereas I expected it to become an even larger bonus. I think fatigue is recalculated every 4 hours, any number..at least any number less than the amount of time since you've rested...seems to be overwritten in my experience. Numbers above that are incremented...usually.

    heres an older post, the information is still accurate..except the bit about not being able to roll 20 (you can always critical hit or miss no matter how fatigued)

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/5960/is-fatigue-actually-detrimental

    the luck opcodes (22?) increase weapon damage rolls up to max, and reduce spell damage taken(by enemies only). Thats not what any references say its supposed to do. A penalty does the reverse, reduces attack damage to the minimum, and increases spell damage taken. I've read from others with the original game that it used to modify "rolls" of all sorts, or at least attack/damage and saves. I only have EE though.

    Its been argued to death what Luck does, but no one seems to want to test opcodes 22 and 133. I can assure you in BG:EE 2.0, thats all luck does. It does not modify attack rolls, saves, or anything else. Although luck penalties will increase magic damage TAKEN, luck bonuses do not increase spell damage delivered, only reduce the spell damage dice you take from red enemies. Fatigue, Intoxication, lucks spells, chant, bard songs and other "luck" affects have additional effects added that modify attack rolls, but basic luck opcode does not. Just create a fighter mage in candlekeep and give him a +20 luck basic sword and its super easy to test what luck and fatigue do. He will not get +19 min to every roll as he should if luck worked "correctly", nor will his magic missle always deal 5 damage.

    So as far as adding fatigue to cast spells...unless its a fighter mage or bard, the effects of negative luck/fatigue are pretty minimal on casters spells, but devastating on melee types.

    Meaningless
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Meaningless
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,322
    seraglio said:

    Just create a fighter mage in candlekeep and give him a +20 luck basic sword and its super easy to test what luck and fatigue do. He will not get +19 min to every roll as he should if luck worked "correctly", nor will his magic missle always deal 5 damage.

    I do get such a bonus to my attack rolls when I equip a weapon with a passive +20 Luck from opcode 22 alone. It displays as such:
    Dorn: Attack Roll 5 + 17 = 22 hit
    Dorn dealt 14 damage to Edwin
    Dorn: Attack Roll 13 + 9 = 22 hit
    Dorn dealt 14 damage to Edwin
    Dorn: Attack Roll 8 + 14 = 22 hit
    Dorn dealt 14 damage to Edwin
    Dorn: Attack Roll 19 + 3 = 22 hit
    Dorn dealt 14 damage to Edwin
    Dorn: Attack Roll 1 + 21 = 22 miss
    Dorn dealt 14 damage to Edwin
    Dorn: Attack Roll 20 + 2 = 22 critical hit
    Dorn dealt 14 damage to Edwin
    You'll notice the final value for every roll is the same. Every roll is increased by a modifier to adjust the base roll to 20. The +2/22 was from a +4(strength bonus) and -2(proficiency penalty), 20 + 4 - 2 = 22.
    You can also turn on Extra Combat Info to see the Luck bonus.
    seraglio said:

    I then modified fatigmod.2da to start becoming positive after about 50.

    Did you change every value above 50 or just to the listed 100 values? Some 2da's have a default value for unlisted entries, in the case of fatigmod, its '-94'. If you didn't give entries for values up through 255, it would use that default value when your fatigue value exceeded the last entry.

    Unfortunately, every manual for BGEE/BG2EE/IWDEE/SOD details or omits the effects of luck differently, even though the stat has the same hard-coded effect in each of them. The "Luck" effect isn't even directly defined in any of the manuals, its only ever listed as a part of something else, each of which has its own additional effects.

    Meaningless
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 870
    edited October 2016
    using negative opcode 93 only seems to to set the fatigue meter back to fresh (including after a reload), doesn't seem to have anything about actually being immune to fatigue permanently though i'd love to be proven wrong (especially for IWD)

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