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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge vs Bhaal´s Cataclysm

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  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    Krell stormed through the Temple of Bhaal and solved the trouble around Bridgefort...

    Once Krell avoided Detect Invisibility from the Bugbear Shamans and soaked up the trap with Iron Skin he started hunting bosses:

    Ziatar: Three Wolves for some stunning plus two Greater Fire Elementals (resist fear most of the time) were called in. After some talking Krell closed the nearby door to cut down support and moved to the room nearby with a mad but but neutral monk to avoid her fear aura. With Far Sight he got clear vision and used one wolf to lure Ziatar away from her mages to start the beating. Even though she managed to use Sanctuary the Half-Dragon-Lady went down pretty fast without killing any summon. Nice!

    Neothelid: Protected with Chaotic Commands Krell played a bit with the door to see what the beast had planned. As it wasnt calling Mordi Swords Krell send in his Lions and Fire Elementals only to watch that they absolutely destroyed the Neothelid getting in one 68 damage crit. Ouch!

    Akanna: With one tank bear, two lions and two fire elementals Krell decided to put down the aerieal servants first. He sacrificed the bear who tanked for quite some time before going down. The other four went straight for the high priestress afterwards he could not get out a single spell - poor one.

    In Bridgefort Krell surrendered to the Crusaders and let his spirit summons take down the Fire Elemental.

    Coalition Camp is calling and the Crusader Attacks are not far away anymore. This should get interesting. Finally! :D
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457

    I've been looking for an infinite gold exploit for BG1, but I have yet to find it. I don't need any more gold than I do in my normal route; I just don't want to have to spend so much time collecting it.

    Are you not allowing item duplication?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Grond0: No. It's possible in my install because I have v2.3, but that was by accident; I meant to install SCS on v2.5. I decided to quit my other solo LoB run with all the glitches because v2.5 eliminated them and I didn't want to showcase a bunch of tricks that readers wouldn't have access to. I'm also avoiding the Wand of Lightning trick in my run.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,473
    edited January 2018
    @semiticgod That's just about how I dealed the Crusader attacks in current run, you can find at least 17 Skull trap scrolls in the game which I used against the Troll attack, Web's and Silence's against mages, and Web's, Silence and Cloudkills against fighters. Robe of Aptitude and it's Spell Sequencing ability helps a lot.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,473
    edited January 2018
    I've been mapping the Maze level of Watchers Keep, I really like the SCS random generated Maze, where pen and paper helps a lot. And I've now paths to Tahazzar, Ka'rashur and to the end. But I don't think I'll risk against them, I remember needing tens of reloads against Tahazzar's mob with my Cavalier, so I'll wait until Underdark so I can get at least Chain Contingency and Time Stop. And I've already 40k gold which should be enough to buy something if needed.

    Speaking of leaving, want to use the Deck of Many things first with these:

    1st Draw, SI:Abjuration, SI:Evocation, SI:Conjuration
    2nd Draw, SI:Alteration, SI:Enchantment, SI:Conjuration
    3rd Draw, SI:Conjuration

    Chance of getting

    1st Draw 0
    2nd Draw KEY 1/18, STAR 1/18, SUN 1/6, VIZIER 1/6, or any of them 8/18.
    3rd Draw COMET 1/6, MOON 1/6, ERINYES 1/6, or any of them 1/2.

    Death Shade is also 1/6 for the third, yes I decided to live a little dangerously and take a chance at 10 hp. B)
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    edited January 2018
    @histamiini I know it doesn't matter for a run with reloads, but have you actually tested that spell immunity will protect against the effects of the Deck of Many Things? The reason I ask is that it definitely won't protect against you casting spells on yourself and it seemed possible that the Deck would use that as a vehicle rather than counting as an external attack.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,473
    edited January 2018
    @Grond0 Yes I tested them to work but...

    Oh lordy lord, decided to go to the Temple Sewers to execute this gamble of the ages, so if Death Shade appears, I can leave it there and never come back. But as soon as I started casting immunities, the freaking Flayers started teleporting on to me, and had to make a quick escape. I've a feeling that isn't the last time Six is going to meet them. :D

    So the perfect place, one of the Graveyard tombs, fitting yes? First Draw, got GEM so nothing. Second draw, and I was in for a surprise, KNIGHT, and four Demon Knights actually started attacking me. Apparently I didn't test enough of the effects and summons still get through. Again quick escape, and wrote a note on the door, "needs cleaning". Another tomb and the last draw, and of course, it was the SKULL, a Death Shade. Well another tomb you shouldn't wander to. :D

    Well that was a whole lot of bust, but very fun. :D
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,473
    edited January 2018
    I tested it thoroughly and you can't block summons, and STAR, but every other effect yes. And you can see the spell coming at you from close distance so you aren't casting yourself. @Grond0

    So here's the final version which immunities you should take for

    Deck of Many Things:

    1st Draw, SI:Abjuration, SI:Evocation
    2nd Draw, SI:Alteration, SI:Enchantment
    3rd Draw, SI:Conjuration

    Chances of positive effects happening:

    1st Draw 0
    2nd Draw KEY 1/18, STAR 1/18, SUN 1/6, VIZIER 1/6, or any of them 8/18
    3rd Draw COMET 1/6, MOON 1/6, ERINYES 1/6, or any of them 1/2

    Chances of negative effects happening:

    1st Draw FLAMES 1/6 (summon)
    2nd Draw KNIGHT 1/9 (summon)
    3rd Draw SKULL 1/6 (summon), FOOL 1/6 (remove curse cures)

    Deck of Many Things

    1st Draw

    Bad
    - DONJON Abjuration
    - RUIN Evocation

    Good
    - EURYALE Evocation
    - FLAMES None
    - GEM Evocation
    - JESTER Evocation

    2nd Draw (1st Bad)

    Bad
    - VOID Alteration

    Good
    - KEY Evocation
    - STAR None
    - ROGUE Enchantment
    - SUN Evocation
    - VIZIER Abjuration

    2nd Draw (1st Good)

    Bad
    - VOID Alteration
    - MAGICIAN Alteration

    Good
    - KNIGHT None
    - ROGUE Enchantment
    - SUN Evocation
    - VIZIER Abjuration

    3rd Draw (if any Bad)

    - SKULL None
    - THRONE Evocation
    - MOON Necromancy
    - FOOL Necromancy
    - COMET Evocation
    - ERINYES Evocation

    3rd Draw (if all Good)

    - SKULL None
    - MOON Necromancy
    - TALONS Conjuration
    - FOOL Necromancy
    - COMET Evocation
    - ERINYES Evocation
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,473
    edited January 2018
    Btw, why can you cast Spell Immunity without casting time like with Improved Alacrity? So basically you can become immune, as quick as your pause thumb is, to every spell like with PfM, but you can still cast spells yourself? Seems rather op...

    EDIT: because casting time with Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power is 0, but you can do them all in the same round, which seems weird...

    EDIT: well damn, the possibilities. With one round you can, become immune to every spell, even dispel, cast AoF contingency, Hardiness, and with DoEH have 85 DR, and become a juggernaut of doom for a turn. :o
    Post edited by histamiini on
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    Thats why Mages were banned in the very beginning of this challenge @histamiini. ;)

    But then @Grond0 ruined all... >:)
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    I think @histamiini shows us that the opposite is true @semiticgod. He is playing around with nearly all kinds of enemies as if they are puppets and sometimes i got the feeling he isnt taking the challenge serious anymore. >:)

    You rate Dwarven Defender as top tier class for no-reloads? Thats interesting! I played them for some time but it never felt somewhere close to the Totemic Druid/Fighter. And the longer i play the poverty run with Krell it feels even more that Totemic Druid is one of the most powerful classes around - even better than Sorcerers in this specific case. ;)

    P.S. I would really like to see someone trying the Sorcerer in a poverty run - with reloads maybe! :D
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Harpagornis: I was referring to single-classed and dual-classed mages primarily. Things would be very different, I think, if @histamiini was working with a cleric/mage. Mages in BG2 are defensive powerhouses, but without fighter levels to boost their damage output, the enemy will simply outlast their defenses and their summons. Being invincible for 20 rounds doesn't mean much if you can't make much progress during those rounds.

    Single-classed mages would be highly dependent on Fire Shield, Mordenkainen's Sword, Animate Dead, and Summon Planetar to deal damage. But Fire Shield doesn't scale with levels, and even mage summons won't have the THAC0 or enchantment levels to handle enemies like Yaga-Shura, the Ravager, and Ascension Melissan. Fighter levels are priceless in those fights.

    I think the Dwarven Defender would struggle in BG1 and SoD, relatively speaking (its damage resistance would max out at 63% until Avernus when you can gamble with Thrix for that helmet), but its ability to achieve long-duration 93% or (after the Ravager) 100% damage resistance would be crucial in BG2 and ToB.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457

    You rate Dwarven Defender as top tier class for no-reloads? Thats interesting... I played them for some time but it never felt somewhere close to the Totemic Druid/Fighter. And the longer i play the poverty run with Krell it feels even more that Totemic Druid is one of the most powerful classes around. Mages dont count... :D

    It depends a lot on how you're playing. The totemic summons make it much easier to progress through the early game in a 'normal' fashion. However, if you're using exploits to bypass much of that and considering instead which character has the best chance in late game encounters then I can absolutely understand how the Dwarven Defender could be preferable. The far better saving throws will largely compensate for the spell defenses available to the druid, while the ability to push non-dispellable physical resistances over 100 (in a non-poverty run) would make many encounters pretty easy for the Dwarven Defender at a time when the druid summons are starting to lose their edge over opponents.
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    The Druid summons dont lose their edge - at least not up to the point i played Eklun. Against Amelyssan: Maybe! But the combination of Deva + Elemental Prince + Spirt Summons so far crushed everything into the ground. Not to forget: Harm! This spell alone brought so much destruction upon enemies that it wasnt fun anymore. And: As Eklun also got a lot of Fighter levels he can still use GWW and all the other fun. I agree that the Dwarven Defender can be a real powerhouse later on but i refuse to put him somewhere near Totemic Druid/Fighter. At least not for no-reload! ;)
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    Remind me what Eklun's levels were then? Presumably if he had both druid and fighter HLAs he must have been an illegal combination ...
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    edited January 2018
    Ekluns levels @Grond0? 18/26! Your own suggestion! B)

    That means: 4 Druid HLA´s + 7 Fighter HLA´s. More than enough! :D
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    I can't remember my own characters, let alone anyone else's :p.
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    As Nietzsche said before: “The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time.”

    With other words: You are a lucky guy @Grond0! :D
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,473
    edited January 2018
    Nothing interesting in Brynnlaw for Six, killed Perth the Adept by Cloudkill-trigger. Asylum, lost 1 point of intelligence but gained Bag of Holding, best trade ever. Yuanti-mages really are the pain of my existence, ridiculously powerfull, they massacred all the summons I could muster, 9 Skelis, 3 Efreetis, Deva. Except when my summons were dead, I turned tables with Cloudkill triggers and they could do nothing, but wander aimlessly in the smoke and die, die, die. The whole Irenicus dungeon was pretty straight forward, summons pretty much did everything else, I dealt Yuantis.

    Sim PfM'd Irenicus, I Gww'd my evil double, waited and watched the mayhem a little from Sanctuary and then summoned hasted Deva. And when I did that one of the "friends" enfeebled me, what the hell? Lucky thing I had the Deva there who dispelled me, and I quickly put Sanctuary again on. Deva then killed the Efreeti and then beat Irenicus himself who was pretty useless. Then I parked the Deva on the door where he then killed all the Murderers. Damn that was impressive Deva, killed everything and saved my ass, why can't they all be like that?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Okay, I have a near-perfect strategy for the Drasus party. You know those first two hostile guards before the Drasus fight? Don't kill them. Instead, charm Kysus and then Rezdan and send both mages off to die against the two hostile guards. They won't fight back; they won't go hostile; they'll just die.

    Then charm Genthore and have him kill the twin guards. Finally, have Genthore attack Drasus when Drasus is out of your field of vision (I think both will go hostile if you trigger Drasus' dialogue). Genthore should lose to Drasus, but Drasus will be severely wounded and alone.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 992
    edited January 2018
    Of simply kill the guards, charm Drasus and let his goons kill him for you. If you can charm Rezdan and Kysus, you have access to invis anyway, so just let them kill Drasus and go in the mines unnoticed. Hurray, free boots of speed !!

    Edit : If you do wish to kill all the group, your tactic is much better though, I must admit.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    If I have access to stealth or invisibility I tend to charm all of Drasus' party sequentially and feed them all to the guards you mention. Even without your own invisibility you can use Kysus to do that, though I find that becomes a bit tedious if you get lots of ambushes and saves against charm.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I wasn't sure about charming Drasus because if he makes his save and I don't escape fast enough, he might start the dialogue that turns all four of them hostile, and once they're hostile, it's no longer safe to approach any of them with Algernon's Cloak, invisibility or no. For the other three, as long as they're neutral, they won't bother you at all; you don't even have to run away from them if the charm fails.

    Kysus has no Invisibility spell in my install, nor does Rezdan. Same goes for Thalantyr for some reason. We're also missing Teleport Field scrolls from Sorcerous Sundries. I don't know why. One of my mods has made a lot of modifications to stores.

    Unfortunately, Near Infinity has confirmed that no store in BG:EE has the buy and sell markups necessary to perform the infinite gold exploit that's possible with Nazramu. In my install, the exploit is also possible with the Temple of Sekolah in BG2 (though the profit per exchange is only like 2% at 20 CHA and 20 reputation, compared to 10% for Nazramu), but I assume one of the EE updates removed it.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457

    I wasn't sure about charming Drasus because if he makes his save and I don't escape fast enough, he might start the dialogue that turns all four of them hostile, and once they're hostile, it's no longer safe to approach any of them with Algernon's Cloak, invisibility or no. For the other three, as long as they're neutral, they won't bother you at all; you don't even have to run away from them if the charm fails.

    Hence the need for some form of invisibility. With that you can charm the others without Drasus ever having an opportunity to see you (you can see Genthore and Kysus anyway without invisibility, but not Rezdan). Drasus himself as the final target might be able to react fast enough to go hostile, but if you're starting invisible he won't react fast enough to chase after you.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 992
    edited January 2018
    If Drasus fails his save and if you're hasted, you'll be able to outrun him. Even better : he'll be the only one to be able to follow you. You can then park him near the entrance point, where you can try to charm him by going in and out of the map to refresh the Algernon's cloak. It took me a few tries, but that's how I dealt with him in my Dwarven Defender run. It's also a pretty safe strat and it's a bit less tedious than charming the whole lot.
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,658
    Krell has finished SoD but the end was no fun anymore...

    The Crusader Attacks were surprisingly easy with Fire Elementals + Spirit Summons as many enemies cannot touch them. Nymphs also proved to be super powerwful against Ogre/Trolls and Cavaliers combining Hold Monsters plus Call Lightning. Once they sacrificed themselves Spirit Lions joined in and cleaned the house. Insect Swarm completly cut down the Mages and Clerics - just an awesome spell. Lesson to be learned: The Totemic Druid is in a really good spot when fighting the Crusaders - even without items.

    Ashatiel was a joke once the Spirit Wolves joined in and Insect Swarm hindered spellcasting - no challenge.

    Avernus was suprisingly tricky - at least the Elevator - cause the Bone Fiend managed to fear Krell several times and even though his summons cleaned the house he was unable to precast Barkskin. Even more funny: Fear continued after talking with Big B! However: After more than a dozen reloads his three Spirit Lions managed to beat the last wave down fast enough while Krell saved against fear.

    Big B himself was even more painful. Sometimes no Greater Fire Elemenal appeared, sometimes even with Barkskin stacking Krell failed his initial save against fear, sometimes Big B went invisible before Magic Resistance was finished, sometimes Harm did not land and sometime the Fire Elemental and Caelar went down too soon. I aborted counting the number of reloads but it must of been 250+. You can imagine that at the end this was no real fun anymore - just the wrath of getting this hellthing down. :D

    The final SoD fights were exhausting and even though it is clear that SoA will be a walk in the park i am not sure if i should continue this poverty run. Except for some useful items this run was not really much different from no-reload with Eklun and i am rather sure that Krell would be able to beat SoA. Yeah, ToB would be a different story but the limitations of poverty turned this whole run into a pure summons vs everything. Thats a bit boring in the long run. Therefore i will park Krell in the Irenicus dungeon for now and try formulate a new approach. Maybe i will catch up the idea of @semiticgod to start a no-reload-run with one of the True Classes. But first: Time for some relaxing! :D
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