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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge vs Bhaal´s Cataclysm

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  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    edited February 2019
    Fourth Pocket Plane challenge. Cyric's favored did pretty much nothing to Dame, how in the hell did Cyric manage to kill Bhaal? Convinced Balthazar to join the Good and Evil, you can do this with correct dialogue options even being evilly aligned. You just need high rep, cha or wis, don't remember which but first chat failed with 20 cha, 20 rep, 16 wis. So I drank Potion of Insight and the line 2-2-3-2-1-1-1-3-3-1-1-2-1 worked now with 18 wis.

    Final Pocket Plane challenge, the Ravager. This was the big one, had to use the summon door trick, because good luck of doing it otherwise. Only cleric can waste him quickly with harm I think, as he's pretty much immune to everything else. I could've also used the Rift Device, but that's has a different name on it. Anyway summoned skeli on the door, and activated the battle. Lured the Bone Blades to the first challenge area, then summoned Efreeti to keep company for them. Checked that all were attacking Efreeti, invisibility and ran away.

    Battle of the giants took a really, really long time. The Ravager has 75 damage resistance, 100 elemental resistance, and 1682 hp. Not only that but it dispels you with every hit, so there's no need or use of buffing. In that regard Ravager is tougher to kill than Melissan, but does less damage. So basically I needed to do 6.7k normal weapon damage with my innate apr (+ HLA's), and coupled with ridiculous 2.5 LoB AC of -23 it took really long. But in the end the Good and Evil outlasted the Ravager, and this was a good practice against Melissan. From the challenge I got the 25 damage resitance reward, which is damn nice.

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  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 609
    Apart from Cleric or Druid with harm, Any thief is realy good against ravager (best would be thief/mage mc) because you can use Simulacrums or I think even projected images to lay Spike traps.
    Damage or magic resistance doesn't affect those, cuz reasons. :)
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    edited February 2019
    @Victor_Creed_SFV Spike traps work but I think there's 7 spike limit per area, at least when my blade attacked Throne of Bhaal. However skull traps don't have limit and the same method Kayla used should work against ravager, 500 skulls should do with its 90 MR.

    https://youtu.be/ZNFFkLqFQBg
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 609
    I mean you could still use Skull Traps with the thief/mage mc I talked about but the spike traps would drastically reduce tzhe amount of skull traps you need since they ignore MR.
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 609
    Oh also i watched the video above and you can't compare bard skull traps to any other class, since I'm pretty sure only bards get caster level 40, but they also get spike traps so I guess bards are actually op vs ravager and I forgot all about them.
    (Even a bard will not do more average damage than Spike traps tho since you can save for half, which I guess right now with broken LoB saves will put the bards ahead of spike traps IF not magic resisted but ofc it still remains that spike traps can't be MRed so 7 spike traps will be worth 70 skull traps.)
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    edited February 2019
    @Victor_Creed_SFV If I remember correctly Bard too has 20 caster limit in 2.3+, or that skulls have 20 caster limit, could be wrong though. But using only spell skulls is a boring job as you need to sleep a lot to cast them. Hundreds of times in the end battle if you cast them yourself. :D I think I used simulacrum to cast them from the scrolls, which have caster level 9. Although against Ravager that isn't a problem as you're already in the Pocket Plane.
  • OngoOngo Member Posts: 11
    Thanks @histamiini and @Victor_Creed_SFV for your tips.

    For whatever reason, I didn't observe the "Dead Magic" effect in the other rooms today, and so I was able to complete the Maze Level. There is one fewer level standing between Pinhead Larry and the Robe of Vecna in the Final Seal. The robe is even more important because Improved Alacrity isn't working properly.

    With all the experience from demons, Pinhead Larry is quickly approaching the level cap, and all before entering Chapter 3.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    edited March 2019
    Hmm skull trapping is still possible for CM against Melissan. There's 24 skull trap scrolls, 12 project image and simulacrum scrolls after you learn them. CM can cast 6 skull traps, 6 project images and 6 simulacrums every rest. You get your spells back every pool, so you can lay traps three times.

    First, 12x20+6 = 246
    Second, 12x20+6 = 246
    Third, 12x20+6+12x10+24 = 390

    Overall CM can lay 882 skull traps, although varied in strenght, it should still be well over 500 that's needed.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    @histamiini could you explain the basis of your calculations for numbers of skull traps? The numbers don't look quite right to me.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    @Grond0 For my memory, understanding CM can cast 12 project images and simulacrums per rest, which are 20 rounds long, which can then cast skull trap about 20 times, in practice 19 or so. Given that there's the SCS option for quick slot casting. Lastly there's the 12 project image and simulacrum scrolls, which are 10 rounds long I think.
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    So ive been trying realy hard to do this solo challenge and want to go Fighter mage / Kensai mage, but BG1 consists of completly doing it then with a fighter class... till level 9 and u can only go to level 8 i believe, Cannot hit a damn thing.. have no mage spells to help me out either so how would i beat BG1 with just a fighter class on LoB with SCS ??? ive been googling alot to get some help but nothing to be found :) any help appreciated!
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    histamiini wrote: »
    @Grond0 For my memory, understanding CM can cast 12 project images and simulacrums per rest, which are 20 rounds long, which can then cast skull trap about 20 times, in practice 19 or so. Given that there's the SCS option for quick slot casting. Lastly there's the 12 project image and simulacrum scrolls, which are 10 rounds long I think.

    OK. Is improved alacrity not available? That could significantly increase the output of images. Sequencers could also help. You've also shown 3 lots of casting. I'm not familiar with the final battle under Ascension, but if you get spells back after each pool would you not have 4 potential lots of casting? There's also Vhailor's Helm - does that get recharged by pools? You could also get a bit more by sticking images in a chain contingency if that was not already being used for something else.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    edited March 2019
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    So ive been trying realy hard to do this solo challenge and want to go Fighter mage / Kensai mage, but BG1 consists of completly doing it then with a fighter class... till level 9 and u can only go to level 8 i believe, Cannot hit a damn thing.. have no mage spells to help me out either so how would i beat BG1 with just a fighter class on LoB with SCS ??? ive been googling alot to get some help but nothing to be found :) any help appreciated!

    @Mr_Salty there are some good tips if you want to search through this thread B).

    By far your best tool to make things easier is Algernon's cloak. That's a godsend for BG1 as it allows you to tank enemies with their own kind while you concentrate on attack - it's also good for pulling away individual enemies to kill separately. If you're feeling cheesy you can do a basilisk loop where you charm a lesser basilisk and then petrify and revive a greater one over and over again. I don't allow that, but if you're careful Korax will stay charmed long enough to kill all the basilisks and Mutamin on that map to get a few levels. Shoal's easy to kite for more XP and if you're patient enough you can also get a gnoll to knock Drizzt unconscious for you to get more easy XP.

    If you want to short-circuit a few things (like the Nashkel Mines) the invisibility ring is a good option. It's expensive, but if you make sure you buy at the lowest prices you'll have plenty of cash as a solo player.

    If you've got any specific questions, just ask. best of luck :D.
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    So ive been trying realy hard to do this solo challenge and want to go Fighter mage / Kensai mage, but BG1 consists of completly doing it then with a fighter class... till level 9 and u can only go to level 8 i believe, Cannot hit a damn thing.. have no mage spells to help me out either so how would i beat BG1 with just a fighter class on LoB with SCS ??? ive been googling alot to get some help but nothing to be found :) any help appreciated!

    @Mr_Salty there are some good tips if you want to search through this thread B).

    By far your best tool to make things easier is Algernon's cloak. That's a godsend for BG1 as it allows you to tank enemies with their own kind while you concentrate on attack - it's also good for pulling away individual enemies to kill separately. If you're feeling cheesy you can do a basilisk loop where you charm a lesser basilisk and then petrify and revive a greater one over and over again. I don't allow that, but if you're careful Korax will stay charmed long enough to kill all the basilisks and Mutamin on that map to get a few levels. Shoal's easy to kite for more XP and if you're patient enough you can also get a gnoll to knock Drizzt unconscious for you to get more easy XP.

    If you want to short-circuit a few things (like the Nashkel Mines) the invisibility ring is a good option. It's expensive, but if you make sure you buy at the lowest prices you'll have plenty of cash as a solo player.

    If you've got any specific questions, just ask. best of luck :D.

    getting max level in BG1 is not the problem for me :smile: its the boss fights like sarevok (saving Dorn from the encounter) just the cloak doesnt fix these things for me ^^ cannot use wands cant have party cant cast spells and im sure not able to hit them fighting let alone survive it ^^

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    Sarevok is actually not that bad. He Semaj, Diarmid and Tazok can be stranded in a corner if you show yourself to them and then go invisible. Magic protection and fire protection makes Angelo possible even without help, but you can charm the Undercity party outside the temple to help you out if you want. Then just fireball Sarevok from out of sight until they're all dead (you may have trouble finishing off Sarevok like that, but kiting and/or the use of the ring of energy can deal with him as well without ever getting into melee).
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    edited March 2019
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Sarevok is actually not that bad. He Semaj, Diarmid and Tazok can be stranded in a corner if you show yourself to them and then go invisible. Magic protection and fire protection makes Angelo possible even without help, but you can charm the Undercity party outside the temple to help you out if you want. Then just fireball Sarevok from out of sight until they're all dead (you may have trouble finishing off Sarevok like that, but kiting and/or the use of the ring of energy can deal with him as well without ever getting into melee).

    alright thnx for the input! ill give it another go i realy want to do this challenge ^^ (saving dorn is not possible right ?)
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    edited March 2019
    Grond0 wrote: »
    OK. Is improved alacrity not available? That could significantly increase the output of images. Sequencers could also help. You've also shown 3 lots of casting. I'm not familiar with the final battle under Ascension, but if you get spells back after each pool would you not have 4 potential lots of casting? There's also Vhailor's Helm - does that get recharged by pools? You could also get a bit more by sticking images in a chain contingency if that was not already being used for something else.
    If they haven't changed it, improved alacrity shouldn't be available. Sequencers and contingencies didn't work either with sims and images if I remember it correctly. Vhailor's helm, as other items do get recharged I think, but that's already in.

    There's three pools but the final battle starts straight away after activating the last pool, so there's just three trapping sessions available. And I still need to test how to lay them, so that the enemies of each pool won't set them off. I think I've to start lower left, lower right and up right. Still needs testing though.

    @Mr_salty Fighter isn't really a fighter in BG1 LoB SCS, but uses charm spamming from Algernon's and Nymphs cloaks to kill opponents like Grond0 said. Once you get top level and best gear you may take some opponents 1on1 but not all. Durlag's Goblet helps a lot and should be priority at some point, even necessity if you plan to pass Belhifet in Dragonspear. As for Sarevok with fighter you can burn his minions with One Gift Lost fireball necklaces, casting them out of sight, and then take chunk of Sarevoks health away. There's 5 of them so combined 125 strikes should kill all minions, and get Sarevok in half health. Then you could tank the rest of him with full Durlag's Goblet.
  • OngoOngo Member Posts: 11
    Good luck @Mr_Salty. We're both lucky @Grond0 and @histamiini are here to lend their experience.

    Pinhead Larry is beginning to approach his maximum power. He hit the level cap, then picked up the Robe of Vecna from Azamantes the Lich in Watcher's Keep, the Staff of the Magi from Layene in the Twisted Rune, and the Ring of Gaxx from Kangaxx in the Docks. At this point, Pinhead Larry can cast Project Image and Simulacrum 7 times each, and his 14 clones can cast Wish 6 times each for a total of 84 Wishes. In 84 wishes, there is virtually no chance that Pinhead Larry is not offered the option to recover all his spells, which means he could theoretically complete the rest of the game without resting once.

    Unfortunately, Improved Alacrity is not working. It only works for enemies and with Wish. The same is true for Energy Blades.

    I am mostly happy with my choice of spells. The biggest mistake I made was choosing too many spells that destroy spell protections and resistances. Pinhead Larry can cast Spell Thrust, Secret Word, Lower Resistance, Pierce Magic, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Pierce Shield, and Spell Strike. Right now, only Pierce Shield and Spell Strike are relevant, although Lower Resistance was very important for Siege of Dragonspear.

    Imprisonment has been extremely helpful, but I wonder if Black Blade of Disaster or Shapechange would be more useful for the toughest fights. Occasionally, there is a creature with so many immunities that almost all spells are ineffective - demiliches, for example. Luckily, Kangaxx is not immune to Imprison, and when he is imprisoned he drops his ring. I am just worried that Pinhead Larry will eventually run into an enemy that can only be killed by a powerfully-enchanted weapon and that can instantly destroy his magical swords with Death Spell, Trap the Soul, or a similar ability.

    Also, I wish I had picked one demon summoning spell, since SCS has increased the power of demons drastically.
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 609
    edited March 2019
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Sarevok is actually not that bad. He Semaj, Diarmid and Tazok can be stranded in a corner if you show yourself to them and then go invisible. Magic protection and fire protection makes Angelo possible even without help, but you can charm the Undercity party outside the temple to help you out if you want. Then just fireball Sarevok from out of sight until they're all dead (you may have trouble finishing off Sarevok like that, but kiting and/or the use of the ring of energy can deal with him as well without ever getting into melee).

    alright thnx for the input! ill give it another go i realy want to do this challenge ^^ (saving dorn is not possible right ?)

    You can choose when to do the Dorn encounter, since you have to activate it by talking to him.
    Do it at higher level and anything is possible, charm one of the named guys, use Durlag's Goblet, probably quite some overkill to do this at max level and best gear.

    edit: hm come to think of it he might still die quickly, maybe charm dorn and get him the hell out of dodge?
    Sorry for misunderstanding your question at first.
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    histamiini wrote: »
    Grond0 wrote: »
    OK. Is improved alacrity not available? That could significantly increase the output of images. Sequencers could also help. You've also shown 3 lots of casting. I'm not familiar with the final battle under Ascension, but if you get spells back after each pool would you not have 4 potential lots of casting? There's also Vhailor's Helm - does that get recharged by pools? You could also get a bit more by sticking images in a chain contingency if that was not already being used for something else.
    If they haven't changed it, improved alacrity shouldn't be available. Sequencers and contingencies didn't work either with sims and images if I remember it correctly. Vhailor's helm, as other items do get recharged I think, but that's already in.

    There's three pools but the final battle starts straight away after activating the last pool, so there's just three trapping sessions available. And I still need to test how to lay them, so that the enemies of each pool won't set them off. I think I've to start lower left, lower right and up right. Still needs testing though.

    @Mr_salty Fighter isn't really a fighter in BG1 LoB SCS, but uses charm spamming from Algernon's and Nymphs cloaks to kill opponents like Grond0 said. Once you get top level and best gear you may take some opponents 1on1 but not all. Durlag's Goblet helps a lot and should be priority at some point, even necessity if you plan to pass Belhifet in Dragonspear. As for Sarevok with fighter you can burn his minions with One Gift Lost fireball necklaces, casting them out of sight, and then take chunk of Sarevoks health away. There's 5 of them so combined 125 strikes should kill all minions, and get Sarevok in half health. Then you could tank the rest of him with full Durlag's Goblet.

    ok so i am almost level 7 and started to go Durlag tower the first 2 horrors how would i beat those with my pure fighter still ? :disappointed: cloak is not working on them
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    ok so i am almost level 7 and started to go Durlag tower the first 2 horrors how would i beat those with my pure fighter still ? :disappointed: cloak is not working on them
    Killing horrors takes too much resources to fight, they're also charm resistant, so those horrors I usually just pass with invisibility from Sandthief ring, there's really no need to fight them. The only two horrors you maybe want to fight are those with Davaeorn, but I usually lure them away with the charmed guard. When they are attacking me, I place the guard next to exit, and lure the horrors in the top room, invisibility and just leave them there. The guard can then freely hack Davaeorn.
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    histamiini wrote: »
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    ok so i am almost level 7 and started to go Durlag tower the first 2 horrors how would i beat those with my pure fighter still ? :disappointed: cloak is not working on them
    Killing horrors takes too much resources to fight, they're also charm resistant, so those horrors I usually just pass with invisibility from Sandthief ring, there's really no need to fight them. The only two horrors you maybe want to fight are those with Davaeorn, but I usually lure them away with the charmed guard. When they are attacking me, I place the guard next to exit, and lure the horrors in the top room, invisibility and just leave them there. The guard can then freely hack Davaeorn.

    that ring is over 24000 gold i thought it was not worth it but i see that i am wrong in that lol ok!
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    edited March 2019
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    that ring is over 24000 gold i thought it was not worth it but i see that i am wrong in that lol ok!
    You can get it lower with higher rep and cha, I usually max those out before bying anything expensive, 20/20 it's like 13k or so. You could also use potions, but as there's limited amount of them I usually use the ring, because there's enough money in BG1 to use and recharge that as you like. And potions are reserved for the quick invisibility situations.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    I agree that killing those battle horrors isn't worth it. If you really want to you can use the necklace of missiles, ring of energy or wand of magic missiles, but the cost is more than the benefit.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    edited March 2019
    My first run with Dame against Big Seven went as expected, unexpectedly. First charmed Sarevok, used PfM on Sendai after his initial 20 defensive triggers went off. Then started dueling with Yaga who didn't do that much damage as I had 75 DR against crusing from the ability and Roranach's Horn. Sendai was trying to fight me too, and Sarevok was left alone. The other three on the other side didn't join the fight.

    But as expected something didn't go as planned, somehow I couldn't level drain anybody, maybe I missed something? But my plan was again turned on pure smacking. Got Yaga to one health bar, turned on Gromnir and used PfM on Abazigal after his defensive triggers went off. After some time only Sendai had more than one health bar.

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    Which was my big mistake, as I started hunting her down, her PfM ended and she casually casted finger of death on charmed Sarevok and insta killed him. This of course summoned Melissan, and I had to act fast. Hacked Gromnir to death, then Yaga. But at this point Melissan had summoned so many enemies, that I was trapped, and because Melissan is unkillable without all of Big Six dead, I gave up. Freaking invisible Babaus are annoying as they can trap you easily. I've two Truth Seeing's, from the gem and book, but both were already used.

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    On positive side, Sendai doesn't seem to heal anybody anymore.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,440
    Damn I may gave found an insuperable bug. Melissan teleports inside the character circle, and I can't move, nor hit her. This may be with BMU only but I've to test it.
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 188
    is bandit camp bugged guys ??? i infiltrated went in each tent and silently killed the named guys and gnoll cave all the way to main tent before i even enter that 1 the charmed guy says something about seeing me sniffling arround in the tents and goes hostile > whole camp came on me so i fled the scene! upon returning to the map everything is still coming towards me lol im surrounded everytime by like 40 bandits ?

    what are my options as a level 7 fighter lol :persevere: (and dont say, run invis take scrolls and leave the place haha) but seriously the whole map fixed on me even on leaving and re entering the map thats crazy :)
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,320
    @Mr_Salty I agree that behavior is challenging. I rarely use buffs and don't allow healing, so do tend to leave the map and come back to kill a few enemies before leaving again. As an alternative you could use potions to boost HPs, defenses etc (don't forget the shield amulet against the horde or arrows) and then conduct a running fight to avoid being surrounded. You'll find Venkt using haste and potentially casting nasty things at you though, so it's not an easy solution.

    To be honest the simplest way to deal with the Bandit Camp is just to go invisibly into the tent, grab the letters and run (with a fighter I wouldn't bother using another invisibility, though you could do that to be even safer).
  • Victor_Creed_SFVVictor_Creed_SFV Member Posts: 609
    histamiini wrote: »
    Damn I may gave found an insuperable bug. Melissan teleports inside the character circle, and I can't move, nor hit her. This may be with BMU only but I've to test it.

    I had the same bug with chromatic, seems like big circle enemies with teleport without error get it.
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