Cleric has 18 str, which DUHM can get to 20 which can open 60 locks. There's also Big-Fisted Belt in Rasaad's guestline that gives 19 str and with DUHM could open 65 locks. But Cleric will still miss these without using the Violet Potion which needs to be saved for Belhifet:
Merchant League PfU (70)
Catacombs WIS tome (70)
Catacombs STR tome, Cloak +2 (80)
Any way of improving STR beyond DUHM and Big-Fisted Belt?
@StummvonBordwehr There's two guests needed for the Blazing Glory +3. First quest in Coalition Camp to find an amulet for her. It's in the Underground River area with some creature top right corner. Once you complete this guest it sets the trigger for the next, which happens after Dragonspear Castle attack. You can find Mizhena at the courtyard and she will ask you to find her father, who is at top left corner of the castle area. After this she gives the weapon as a reward.
It's nice weapon:
2d4+3 +1 Fire dmg
Immunity to Fatigue
10% chance of each hit casting Chant
A second attempt at Zest again got to level 5 by killing Drizzt, but died soon after when trying to get a belt off an ogre. Most of the time Zest would be able to attack that and retreat before retaliation, but the ogre has a chance at getting an attack in if it gets a good initiative roll and a single hit sent Zest berserk - and he failed to recover his senses as two further hits made mincemeat of his 96 HPs. Oh well - they say the third time's the charm, so I'll have one more go and try and stack the odds a bit more in Zest's favor.
@histamiini: The Chant effect will not stack; the opcode is inherently non-cumulative.
@Grond0: The early game sounds just awful for a War Hulk. Unless you have a Potion of Magic Shielding, there's basically no way to avoid a standard rage spiral until your saves get much stronger in BG2. What weapons are you using? I dimly remember you mentioning the use of shortswords due to speed factor, but do you also use staffs to take advantage of their range?
@Harpagornis I didn't get it because it's pointless anyway, never actually done the guest. Personally I don't mind using companions to start guests that are otherwise locked from solo, if you don't use the companion to do anything else than to trigger the guest. It's not worse than accepting Caelar for the short duration, or getting Cernd to fight Faldorn etc.
Found some additional help vs. Belhifet, and against others actually.
The Orog Chieftain in Dead Man's Pass has a belt called The Protector of the Unworthy. It's cursed belt that gives +4 penalty to crushing modifier, but -4 bonus to slashing modifier, which is 1 better than Golden Girdle gives. This is actually fine against Bel as no-one has crushing weapon, but it's fine in general too as crushing ac can always be improved with drinking multiple Potions of Absorbtion. Only downside really is that you can't switch to pierching girdle without Remove Curse. It's not much, but hey anything and everything helps against Bel.
@Grond0: The early game sounds just awful for a War Hulk. Unless you have a Potion of Magic Shielding, there's basically no way to avoid a standard rage spiral until your saves get much stronger in BG2. What weapons are you using? I dimly remember you mentioning the use of shortswords due to speed factor, but do you also use staffs to take advantage of their range?
@semiticgod interesting you should mention that. I have been mainly using daggers, in order to take advantage of the free speed 0 dagger you can get from Hentold. The short range for daggers is a noticeable disadvantage though, as it gives opponents the opportunity to hit you after you've already started retreating from an attack. Short swords are better from that point of view, but you can't get a speed 0 one of those until near the end of BG1. I have decided that for the next run I should switch to staffs early on, against most opponents (sword and shield would still be preferable against opponents with fast weapon speed, but relatively poor THAC0), by buying the one from Ulgoth's Beard - that's also speed 0 if you have a point in 2-handed weapons style. Normally I only buy anything significant having cleared most of the wilderness areas and having put reputation back up to 20 - but to make things easier I'll stretch a point this time and get it early on at exorbitant prices (using the Ring of Wizardry to fund that, though I also normally keep all gems and jewelry worth 1,000 gold or more to sell in SoD).
I also suspect that the early game is going to be the easy bit. Tackling constant backstabs from opponents like an invisible Slythe, without using charm, is likely to take difficulty to the extreme ...
@Grond0: Are you also avoiding healing potions in this run? Because Slythe really doesn't seem viable for a single-classed fighter without Algernon's Cloak or Durlag's Goblet.
The Archer is currently in SoD. Sarevok is far easier to work with if you use the Nymph Cloak to charm the local bats and use them to lead him around in a wide circle with Charname using missile attacks in the center. He'll still gets hits in on the bats and kill them very quickly, but even if they get caught in the One Gift Lost fire early on, there are enough of them that you can lead him in a circle for a very, very long time.
The circle strategy is far faster than kiting, and much easier to work with. I've only encountered one or two enemies (I forget which) who will switch to Charname rather than follow a charmed critter around the circle.
@Grond0: Are you also avoiding healing potions in this run? Because Slythe really doesn't seem viable for a single-classed fighter without Algernon's Cloak or Durlag's Goblet.
It's a number of years now since I've used healing items with any character and I've got no plans to restart that . I agree Slythe will be a challenge, but no more so than this thread originally offered all characters. Possible tactics include:
- some of the sort of tactics I've contemplated for Belhifet will also potentially work with Slythe.
- temples can provide healing during the fight, to avoid the need to use lots of regeneration potions.
- by that stage, Zest will have high enough HPs to probably survive one backstab even if he doesn't use potions of heroism (I haven't yet decided whether that should be done). That means he can drain Slythe of his invisibility potions and then potentially run him round while wearing him down.
Judging by the last couple of times I've fought him, the hardest challenge may be to separate Slythe from Krystin - she's been sticking to him like glue even in situations where she's been busy fighting something else at the point Slythe chases me through an area transition.
Found something nice again, The Kneecapper +1 actually works against Belhifet. Does 1d4+2 +5 damage and has -4 Thac0 vs. giant humanoids. Does 1 more damage than The Root of the Problem I think.
The Kneecapper works, but Pritchard's Family Stiletto +2 doesn't even though the enchantment vs. creature should be the same. Any idea why? @semiticgod
@histamiini: Belhifet isn't coded as a giant, so neither hammer nor stiletto are supposed to affect him. Both weapons are coded as +4 against giants, but the Kneecapper is already coded as +4 against everything; its base enchantment is +4. This is a legacy issue: back before EE, when the "enchantment vs. creature type" opcode didn't exist, the Kneecapper was just coded as +4 flat, so it could hit Kangaxx and break through non-SCS Improved Mantle.
The intended behavior would be for neither weapon to hit Belhifet without an Enchanted Weapon spell active, so the bug is actually working in your favor right now.
Still, since Belhifet is indeed a giant demon with a humanoid body--he's basically a "giant humanoid" with weird goat legs"--arguably the weapons should affect him even if he's not a relative of the giant races.
@Harpagornis: I seem to be missing both copies of my Necklace of Missiles in SoD, so I need to know where you can shoot Ziatar safely. If you can't take a screenshot yourself, can you make a red mark on the correct spot on the screenshot below?
@Harpagornis: I seem to be missing both copies of my Necklace of Missiles in SoD, so I need to know where you can shoot Ziatar safely. If you can't take a screenshot yourself, can you make a red mark on the correct spot on the screenshot below?
why not Charm the Mage and close the door ^^ haha has always succeeded on my runs (though without the lob save fix ofcourse ^^)
btw ive been testing arround since its going realy well with my Kensai finished almost whole BG1 except bg itself and durlags rest all killed! ended up at level 9 so far so i was wondering how will this develop itself now when i get to BG 2 i have an awsome kensai but when i dual to mage i lose all my profs,, and mage cannot prof higher then 1 point in a each i lose alot of points in this so even if i go 5 flails 3 two weapon and 2 daggers > if i go from this point onwards everything is a waste...... there is no way i can save up 4,750,000 without exp looping
any suggestions @semiticgod@histamiini ?? i realy dont want to waste those points as i want to have 5 flails 5 daggers 1 mace 1 war hammer im a little upset on this discovery lol
@Mr_Salty: What else do you need to do? With the Firetooth +3 dagger from Ust Natha you can attain maximum APR, and with the Flail of Ages you have near-optimal offensive output along with a no-save slow effect, and Belm or Crom Faeyr can always be used in the off-hand. You don't need many pips in maces to work with the Mace of Disruption, and if you're using Crom Faeyr in the off hand instead of the main hand, a lack of proficiency points won't affect your APR since the off hand is stuck at 1 APR (or 2 with Improved Haste). Later on, the Black Blade of Disaster with Belm and Kai will be your absolute maximum damage output.
@Harpagornis: The spot worked perfectly! Here is our Archer firing away without opposition.
We are now right before the Coalition Camp invasion. I'm anxious about the third wave, since I lost my buffs to a dispel magic effect in my previous run and we were under fairly heavy pressure by the end.
@Mr_Salty With Firkraag XP-loop you can get that much points to skip all mage level ups if you need. It just needs money, then you can again invest the points everywhere.
You can get 10 apr too with Black Blade Disaster +6, Belm +2 in off hand and with Improved Haste. If you take Critical Strike with your two fighter HLA's, you could cast Kai and Critical Strike the same round with Improved Alacrity. With 25 str from Duhm and Kensai bonus, it does 118x8 + 78x2 = 1100 damage in the one round, and 550 per round using only Kai from then.
@Mr_Salty: What else do you need to do? With the Firetooth +3 dagger from Ust Natha you can attain maximum APR, and with the Flail of Ages you have near-optimal offensive output along with a no-save slow effect, and Belm or Crom Faeyr can always be used in the off-hand. You don't need many pips in maces to work with the Mace of Disruption, and if you're using Crom Faeyr in the off hand instead of the main hand, a lack of proficiency points won't affect your APR since the off hand is stuck at 1 APR (or 2 with Improved Haste). Later on, the Black Blade of Disaster with Belm and Kai will be your absolute maximum damage output.
so 1 pip in dagger gets me max apr at end game ?? @semiticgod (Edit i tested with and without pips and with pips 5 it is definitly better on apr 9 with haste instead of 6 with 1 pip)
hmm i went with kensai/mage and focussed on Flails/Hammer since i thought that was the max dmg output u can make but if Black blade and Belm is the max u can do then i dont need 5 pips anywhere ? black blade is a spell and offhand just needs 1 pip i believe (i dont think i can use DUHM as Kensai21 tho or with mage @histamiini
@Mr_Salty If you spend 5 on flails before dualing to mage, you get it back after the dual is complete. Similarly if you spend 5 on daggers before dualing, then forced 1 on mage level up, you still get the grandmastery back. Skipping mage level-ups with Firkraag xp-loop however allows you this certain scenario, 4 on flails before dualing, then when dual is complete you can again spend 1 in flails to complete grandmastery.
I don't think 21Kensai/Mage needs any pips to get 10 apr with BBD, Belm and Improved Haste as BBD gives grandmastery in Long Swords.
You lose Duhm in Spellhold, but get it back after the third Pocket Plane challenge as good award, with Ascension installed. Also you could dring potion to get 24 str.
Example how to get grandmastery in 3 weapons with 21Kensai/Mage:
Kensai level 21
Flails *****
War Hammers ***
Two-Weapon Style ***
Starting Mage Dual
Daggers *
Firkraag xp-loop, and level up straight to Mage level 22 gives three pips, which you can then allocate as you like:
Flails *****
War Hammers *****
Daggers **
Two-Weapon Style ***
And of course BBC gives grandmastery in Long Swords. Bear in mind that Firetooth dagger can't be used in off hand to give apr bonuses to main hand, Belm can be.
Example how to get grandmastery in 3 weapons with 21Kensai/Mage:
Kensai level 21
Flails *****
War Hammers ***
Two-Weapon Style ***
Starting Mage Dual
Daggers *
Firkraag xp-loop, and level up straight to Mage level 22 gives three pips, which you can then allocate as you like:
Flails *****
War Hammers *****
Daggers **
Two-Weapon Style ***
And of course BBC gives grandmastery in Long Swords. Bear in mind that Firetooth dagger can't be used in off hand to give apr bonuses to main hand, Belm can be.
but i will mainly use daggers for ranged attack and having 5 pips in daggers gives me 9 apr and 2 pips just 6 ive seen the difference in speed and its kinda a big deal to me especialy if i need to kite stuff arround
@Mr_Salty You can't use off hand weapon with Firetooth +3 dagger, when in thrown mode. So grandmastery will only give 8 apr with Improved Haste, as Kensai can't use the apr gloves either. The difference to specialized daggers is only 1 apr (7 apr). Also bear in mind that only main hand weapon proficiency is counted towards overall apr, wielding two different grandmastery items gives only +1 apr overall, so 10 apr can only be achieved with Belm in off hand.
@Mr_Salty You can't use off hand weapon with Firetooth +3 dagger, when in thrown mode. So grandmastery will only give 8 apr with Improved Haste, as Kensai can't use the apr gloves either. The difference to specialized daggers is only 1 apr (7 apr). Also bear in mind that only main hand weapon proficiency is counted towards overall apr, wielding two different grandmastery items gives only +1 apr overall, so 10 apr can only be achieved with Belm in off hand.
i did went to BG 2 made a new char and leveled him up with 5 pips dagger it gotten 9 attacks per round (thrown) and i did it again but this time just with 1 pip and also with haste that only gave me 6 attacks per round.... it is definitly a difference @histamiini
@Mr_Salty One pip should give 6 apr, two pips 7 apr so that's correct. However five pips should give only 8 apr. I tested it too with new character and I get 8 apr with Improved Haste.
@Mr_Salty One pip should give 6 apr, two pips 7 apr so that's correct. However five pips should give only 8 apr. I tested it too with new character and I get 8 apr with Improved Haste.
A level 13 fighter will have an extra +1 APR due to levels 7 and 13, two pips in a weapon will give +1/2 APR, GM will give another +1/2 for a total of +1, dual-wielding will add +1, a speed weapon like Belm will give +1, Firetooth will give +1 (if you switch it to melee mode, you can dual-wield it, but only as a main-hand weapon), and Improved Haste will double everything.
If you put Firetooth in your main hand, right click it, select the melee option, and then put Belm in the off-hand, a level 13+ fighter will have 5 base APR, or 10 under Improved Haste, even with no proficiency points in anything. This is because the dagger will add +1, Belm will add +1, dual-wielding will add +1, and levels 7 and 13 will add +1, for a total of 5 base APR. So, you can get maximum APR without Grandmastery--it just requires you to dual-wield two speed weapons. You can do the same thing by dual-wielding Kundane and Belm.
Grandmastery and dual-wielding with a speed weapon will also grant 5 base APR for a level 13+ fighter, or 10 under Improved Haste. You can do this with 5 pips in any particular weapon, and Black Blade of Disaster automatically grants 5 pips in longswords.
A Kensai(21)/Mage will deal 367 damage per round (462 with Kai) with 10 APR under Improved Haste when using BBoD and Belm with 22 STR from the Girdle of Fire Giant Strength and 3 pips in dual-wielding, at -19 THAC0 in the main hand and -10 THAC0 in the off hand. If you're using Firetooth and Belm instead, you're looking at 247 damage per round (278 with Kai) at -13 THAC0 in the main hand and -10 for the off hand.
So, your pips won't matter as much late game, since BBoD will easily be your best option for the purposes of damage output, and the only proficiencies that matter for BBoD+Belm are scimitars (which apply only a bit of extra damage since Belm will be in the off hand) and dual-wielding, for the THAC0 bonuses. You already get 11 proficiency points by level 21, so you're unlikely to end up short.
@semiticgod i prolly will always use the foa and crom as main and gonna use dagger purely for ranged kinda did not wanted to xp loop but in BG2 its ok i guess im not xp looping in bg1 as i have xp cap unlocked but i realy was wondering in how to distribute the pips when i do not xp loop in Bg2 and thats gonna be realy hard i guess to get the pips where u want them and black blade of disaster i prolly wont use alot since it uses a lvl 9 spel slot and end game i realy get dispelled quite alot i noticed on my Cleric mage haha
Comments
Merchant League PfU (70)
Catacombs WIS tome (70)
Catacombs STR tome, Cloak +2 (80)
Any way of improving STR beyond DUHM and Big-Fisted Belt?
I did not know of the PfU scroll in the seven suns - until now. A sweat find. Thanks
Can I ask you about the Blazing glory flail? You should get it if you finish Mizhenas quest. Which quest is that? And how to solve it?
Cant think of a way for clerics to raise their str in other ways - but will think about it
It's nice weapon:
2d4+3 +1 Fire dmg
Immunity to Fatigue
10% chance of each hit casting Chant
I wonder if the Chant stacks?
@Grond0: The early game sounds just awful for a War Hulk. Unless you have a Potion of Magic Shielding, there's basically no way to avoid a standard rage spiral until your saves get much stronger in BG2. What weapons are you using? I dimly remember you mentioning the use of shortswords due to speed factor, but do you also use staffs to take advantage of their range?
Never played the War Hulk - sounds like an "interesting" choide...
Loreth will soon meet the infamous Crusader Attacks - should get funny!
The Orog Chieftain in Dead Man's Pass has a belt called The Protector of the Unworthy. It's cursed belt that gives +4 penalty to crushing modifier, but -4 bonus to slashing modifier, which is 1 better than Golden Girdle gives. This is actually fine against Bel as no-one has crushing weapon, but it's fine in general too as crushing ac can always be improved with drinking multiple Potions of Absorbtion. Only downside really is that you can't switch to pierching girdle without Remove Curse. It's not much, but hey anything and everything helps against Bel.
@semiticgod interesting you should mention that. I have been mainly using daggers, in order to take advantage of the free speed 0 dagger you can get from Hentold. The short range for daggers is a noticeable disadvantage though, as it gives opponents the opportunity to hit you after you've already started retreating from an attack. Short swords are better from that point of view, but you can't get a speed 0 one of those until near the end of BG1. I have decided that for the next run I should switch to staffs early on, against most opponents (sword and shield would still be preferable against opponents with fast weapon speed, but relatively poor THAC0), by buying the one from Ulgoth's Beard - that's also speed 0 if you have a point in 2-handed weapons style. Normally I only buy anything significant having cleared most of the wilderness areas and having put reputation back up to 20 - but to make things easier I'll stretch a point this time and get it early on at exorbitant prices (using the Ring of Wizardry to fund that, though I also normally keep all gems and jewelry worth 1,000 gold or more to sell in SoD).
I also suspect that the early game is going to be the easy bit. Tackling constant backstabs from opponents like an invisible Slythe, without using charm, is likely to take difficulty to the extreme ...
The Archer is currently in SoD. Sarevok is far easier to work with if you use the Nymph Cloak to charm the local bats and use them to lead him around in a wide circle with Charname using missile attacks in the center. He'll still gets hits in on the bats and kill them very quickly, but even if they get caught in the One Gift Lost fire early on, there are enough of them that you can lead him in a circle for a very, very long time.
The circle strategy is far faster than kiting, and much easier to work with. I've only encountered one or two enemies (I forget which) who will switch to Charname rather than follow a charmed critter around the circle.
It's a number of years now since I've used healing items with any character and I've got no plans to restart that
- some of the sort of tactics I've contemplated for Belhifet will also potentially work with Slythe.
- temples can provide healing during the fight, to avoid the need to use lots of regeneration potions.
- by that stage, Zest will have high enough HPs to probably survive one backstab even if he doesn't use potions of heroism (I haven't yet decided whether that should be done). That means he can drain Slythe of his invisibility potions and then potentially run him round while wearing him down.
Judging by the last couple of times I've fought him, the hardest challenge may be to separate Slythe from Krystin - she's been sticking to him like glue even in situations where she's been busy fighting something else at the point Slythe chases me through an area transition.
The Kneecapper works, but Pritchard's Family Stiletto +2 doesn't even though the enchantment vs. creature should be the same. Any idea why? @semiticgod
The intended behavior would be for neither weapon to hit Belhifet without an Enchanted Weapon spell active, so the bug is actually working in your favor right now.
Still, since Belhifet is indeed a giant demon with a humanoid body--he's basically a "giant humanoid" with weird goat legs"--arguably the weapons should affect him even if he's not a relative of the giant races.
why not Charm the Mage and close the door ^^ haha has always succeeded on my runs (though without the lob save fix ofcourse ^^)
any suggestions @semiticgod @histamiini ?? i realy dont want to waste those points as i want to have 5 flails 5 daggers 1 mace 1 war hammer im a little upset on this discovery lol
We are now right before the Coalition Camp invasion. I'm anxious about the third wave, since I lost my buffs to a dispel magic effect in my previous run and we were under fairly heavy pressure by the end.
You can get 10 apr too with Black Blade Disaster +6, Belm +2 in off hand and with Improved Haste. If you take Critical Strike with your two fighter HLA's, you could cast Kai and Critical Strike the same round with Improved Alacrity. With 25 str from Duhm and Kensai bonus, it does 118x8 + 78x2 = 1100 damage in the one round, and 550 per round using only Kai from then.
so 1 pip in dagger gets me max apr at end game ?? @semiticgod (Edit i tested with and without pips and with pips 5 it is definitly better on apr 9 with haste instead of 6 with 1 pip)
hmm i went with kensai/mage and focussed on Flails/Hammer since i thought that was the max dmg output u can make but if Black blade and Belm is the max u can do then i dont need 5 pips anywhere ? black blade is a spell and offhand just needs 1 pip i believe (i dont think i can use DUHM as Kensai21 tho or with mage @histamiini
I don't think 21Kensai/Mage needs any pips to get 10 apr with BBD, Belm and Improved Haste as BBD gives grandmastery in Long Swords.
apr
2/1 Kensai (level 13-)
3/1 Belm +2 (+1 apr)
4/1 Black Blade Disaster +6 (grandmastery)
8/2 Improved Haste
You lose Duhm in Spellhold, but get it back after the third Pocket Plane challenge as good award, with Ascension installed. Also you could dring potion to get 24 str.
List of Pocket Plane rewards with Ascension: http://molskin.hypermart.net/bhaalpowers_read_me.txt
Kensai level 21
Flails *****
War Hammers ***
Two-Weapon Style ***
Starting Mage Dual
Daggers *
Firkraag xp-loop, and level up straight to Mage level 22 gives three pips, which you can then allocate as you like:
Flails *****
War Hammers *****
Daggers **
Two-Weapon Style ***
And of course BBC gives grandmastery in Long Swords. Bear in mind that Firetooth dagger can't be used in off hand to give apr bonuses to main hand, Belm can be.
but i will mainly use daggers for ranged attack and having 5 pips in daggers gives me 9 apr and 2 pips just 6 ive seen the difference in speed and its kinda a big deal to me especialy if i need to kite stuff arround
i did went to BG 2 made a new char and leveled him up with 5 pips dagger it gotten 9 attacks per round (thrown) and i did it again but this time just with 1 pip and also with haste that only gave me 6 attacks per round.... it is definitly a difference @histamiini
apr
2 Kensai (level 13-)
3 Firetooth +3 (+1 apr)
4 Daggers Grandmastery
8 Improved Haste
how do u get 8 ? while i get 9 ?
If you put Firetooth in your main hand, right click it, select the melee option, and then put Belm in the off-hand, a level 13+ fighter will have 5 base APR, or 10 under Improved Haste, even with no proficiency points in anything. This is because the dagger will add +1, Belm will add +1, dual-wielding will add +1, and levels 7 and 13 will add +1, for a total of 5 base APR. So, you can get maximum APR without Grandmastery--it just requires you to dual-wield two speed weapons. You can do the same thing by dual-wielding Kundane and Belm.
Grandmastery and dual-wielding with a speed weapon will also grant 5 base APR for a level 13+ fighter, or 10 under Improved Haste. You can do this with 5 pips in any particular weapon, and Black Blade of Disaster automatically grants 5 pips in longswords.
A Kensai(21)/Mage will deal 367 damage per round (462 with Kai) with 10 APR under Improved Haste when using BBoD and Belm with 22 STR from the Girdle of Fire Giant Strength and 3 pips in dual-wielding, at -19 THAC0 in the main hand and -10 THAC0 in the off hand. If you're using Firetooth and Belm instead, you're looking at 247 damage per round (278 with Kai) at -13 THAC0 in the main hand and -10 for the off hand.
So, your pips won't matter as much late game, since BBoD will easily be your best option for the purposes of damage output, and the only proficiencies that matter for BBoD+Belm are scimitars (which apply only a bit of extra damage since Belm will be in the off hand) and dual-wielding, for the THAC0 bonuses. You already get 11 proficiency points by level 21, so you're unlikely to end up short.