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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge vs Bhaal´s Cataclysm



  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,097
    At the coast, Will saved against Shoal's attempt to force a kiss on him and started a campaign of thumping her on the back. Backstabs did 4 or 6 damage (or double for a critical), so it took a while to work through her 233 HPs. However, her relatively poor AC meant Will only needed a 14 to hit and the fight took less than an hour in real time to pick up the 5,000 XP for killing her, despite her getting 100 HPs back after the first 8 hours of the fight. The remaining gap is going to be much harder I think.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,097
    Will very nearly died at the start of the next session. I decided to test how difficult it would be to attack an ankheg and attacked one that had been left near the nest when Will recovered the body from there earlier. I was thinking it would only get one attack as he ran away, but in fact it got a second - a critical that would almost certainly have been fatal. Will's shadowstep activated just before the acid blob struck though, allowing him to avoid it by ducking into a nearby house.

    After resting up he tried again, establishing that he needed a critical to hit the ankhegs, even attacking from stealth. That meant it would take over 900 attacks on average to kill one. If all the attacks were done perfectly and stealth never failed that would take around 6 seconds of real time per attack or about an hour and a half. Realistically I reckon that time would need to be at least doubled to allow for errors and stealth failure and that doesn't allow for major errors resulting in taking damage. That was a bit daunting, so I looked around for alternatives.

    The belt ogre south of the FAI, had slightly fewer HPs than ankhegs and was worth more XP (factoring in the return of the belt). It also only required 19 to hit. The fact it wanders around is a major complication, but it was still something worth further consideration - but Will moved on looking for easier targets.

    Over at Larswood I wondered if I could take advantage of the argument between Osmadi and Corsone. Once Osmadi had talked to Will, he disappeared - leaving Corsone to attack his fellow druid. Osmadi did not attack back, so it was then just a question of waiting for Corsone to get enough criticals (including 19s). Osmadi showed no inclination to move, so I was able to leave the game running while doing other things most of the time. Corsone's criticals were doing 4-14 damage, indicating he had a strength bonus of 1 on top of the 1-6 base damage of the staff. That meant the odds were slightly against Will being able to get the kill with LMD, but I thought trying to lure Osmadi away would be dangerous and probably unsuccessful - so just let the combat run. It took a bit under half an hour before the crunch point arrived - and Will got lucky, picking up a useful 1,000 XP.

    After resting I led a cave bear to Corsone to see if he would attack that. He did, but the bears wander around so quickly that getting a kill like that looked like even more trouble than ankhegs - so Will moved on.

    Back at the Carnival he attacked Zeke. He's another with a script like Vitiare who tries to run away unless you get really close to him. Will was able to find a spot to attack without retaliation and eventually killed him. Trashing his reputation only provided a disappointing 25 XP though - and Will was not of course allowed to make use of the stone to flesh scroll on the statue in the basilisk area.

    There was some further quick XP at the Nashkel Mine, with 200 from returning Kylee's dagger, 280 from disarming all but one of the traps there and 800 from returning Joseph's ring. Will's detect traps is only 10, so that shows how easy the traps in the mine are. That also provided an illustration of the random component to successfully detecting and disarming traps - twice Will failed to disarm a trap at the first attempt, but got it the next time.

    That left him still needing 1,095 XP and he returned to find the belt ogre. However, that was moving around even more frantically than before and often ignoring Will even when he was visible. As a result, after 10 or 15 minutes Will gave that up as a bad job. Instead, he decided to take a different sort of risk at Ulcaster. To get the book there he had to trigger 2 traps. Shadowstep could delay those hitting him, but there was nowhere to hide to prevent the effect. Will used LMD to give himself a few extra HPs and duly survived the traps (leaving Ulcaster in between those to rest and heal up).
    Returning the book for 1,000 XP left him only needing 95 more.

    He had a look at Zal as a target, but he soon started running around and was abandoned. Will then moved on to Ingot. He doesn't move around and his slow weapon speed means there's less need for precision when attacking. Will needed a critical to hit though, so the fight would have taken quite a while and he looked around for potential alternatives. Remembering he hadn't yet checked containers north of Beregost he found a few more things he could pick - and at level 6 he now got 17 XP for each success rather than 10 (so it would have been worth delaying picking the other locks done earlier). That soon added up and in Ulgoth's Beard he finally hit his target.

    That leaves his stealth at 200 (could have been 205, but he chose to put an additional 5 into open locks at character creation), which should mean that stealth failures are rare in unlighted areas. On this screenshot HIS and MS are shown as 90 each, but that's because the bonuses of 10 for those from the shadowdancer kit are disabled until Will hits cleric L8.

    Now the real fun can start :p.
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    Awesome job so far @Grond0. But after reading your post i still dont get how you reached 40k XP!? What am i missing? ;)

    However: May patience and luck be on your side on your next trips!!! B)

    I think the Shadowdancer/Cleric is a decent choice as he nearly never can be catched offguard thanks to Shadowstep but for the Palace Ambush and fights like Coalition Camp the Bounty Hunter might be the better choice as he can at least put in 7x 3d8+5 damage right at the start (plus a slow for five rounds). Too bad this one is far more vulnerable when being ambushed...

    After some more tests against Sarevok chances should go up a bit as long you manage to charm Tamoko even though this may take some time. Unlike Wudei (her Skeleton Warrior was removed from the spell pool) Tamoko can summon a Aerial Servant that will last long enough until engaging Sarevok (1 turn per level = 26 turns). With a THAC0 of -6 and 15-43 damage (2 APR) this should hurt the evil brother a lot. @Vynn has already started leveling up another Totemic Druid that should maybe reach Sarevok today so we can - hopefully - turn the tables. We will see... :D
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    In addition to the poverty challenge, I think there's another layer of difficulty we could add if we wanted to: a restless run. I was running a restless party run a while ago and it's perfectly possible to avoid ever getting fatigued since 16 CON extends the fatigue timer by a large amount, and the fatigue timer restarts every time you load the game, which means a quick save and quick load can prevent the main character from ever getting fatigued (kicking a party members out and bringing them back into the group can also removing existing fatigue, but that's not relevant for this particular challenge). This would cripple Algernon's Cloak and a few other per-day options, and traps and spells would be all but useless, but warriors would still have a shot at tackling the challenge without reloads.
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    Yeah, no-rest-runs are definetly another decent option @semiticgod even though combining this one with poverty will only be something for Elder Gods like @histamiini. B)

    We managed to get around the lost spell slots when importing Druids from IWD to BG: You just have to make sure to pick spells that are also available in BG for instances Cure Light Wounds. After the import you can chose whatever spells you want. :)

    Well, @Vynn managed to toast his Druid after going afk for a while thinking that Korax and a Spirit Lion would easily dispatch any Basiliks. Somehow one of them must have sneaked around turning him into a wonderful statue. Time for another reroll. :D
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,097
    Awesome job so far @Grond0. But after reading your post i still dont get how you reached 40k XP!? What am i missing? ;)

    In brief:
    - you had 10k
    - I added 21k from basilisks
    - 5k from Shoal
    - 1k from Osmadi
    - 1k from quests in Nashkel Mine
    - 1k from Ulcaster book
    - 1k from traps and locks and a few other odds and sods

    However, getting up to level 7 proved to be a bad decision ...

    Having pushed the boundaries for easy sources of XP, the 13,000 XP needed for Will to get up to level 5 and gain skeletons looked an awfully long way off. His plan had been to kill Drizzt to get 12,000 of those and then look for some luck with hold person to gain the rest. That relied on the ability to kill Drizzt from distance and I'd hoped to do that using magical stone. In the unmodded game that spell doesn't function according to the spell description - rather than creating a stone to attack with, it just does magic damage to the target. I had been thinking that IWDification might have changed in this setup (to be like the SR version, which does create ammunition), but regrettably that was not the case. The time spent casting the spell would therefore mean the gnolls might kill Drizzt before the spell arrived and I suspected it would not get past his magic resistance even if it did get there in time.

    To test the issue about magic resistance I decided to cast a magic stone against Borda to see if he resisted the damage. However, in trying to get there I risked the possibility of an ogre mage ambush - and a chromatic orb later the run was over :s.

    As a general rule I don't allow testing outside of runs, but in this instance I felt it was reasonable to check the apparent inconsistency between spell description and behavior and see whether magical stone did bypass magic resistance. Loading an autosave to get to Borda confirmed that magic resistance did (I think inappropriately) block the damage from the stone.

    That means I can't see a way to kill Drizzt without using the abilities of both cleric and shadowdancer. Aiming to get to level 7, while leaving realistic XP to get to cleric level 5, would take a huge amount of work. If I were trying it again I think I would only aim to get up to level 6 before dualling - saving the basilisks to then quickly get skeletons available for the cleric.
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    I think level 5 is completly okay @Grond0 but - yeah - 6 should be doable without too much sweat.

    @Vynn and me lost another Totemic Druid to the infamous Archer ambush after hitting level 7. As the Druid has no real counters until level 10 this is instadeath close to 100%.

    To make fate smile upon us again we switched to a female Elven Totemic Druid called Calenleya who is already close to level 10. So far everything was supereasy with Shoal, Basilisks, Nymphs and lots of Ankhegs beeing feeded to the Spirit Lions (and Beetles). With the full Sunscorch package there was at least one blind going of when farming Ankhegs after which the summons obilterated them in seconds. Lets see if we can keep going like this... :D
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    The teleportation bug killed us, justifying a reload. We had spectacularly bad luck, with Melissan summoning 5 Balors who killed our clone and made STR drain an impossibility for a moment. Before I could reposition and attempt a STR drain kill using a Cambion as a target, Melissan teleported on top of me. A Dimension Door got disrupted and I got killed by a vorpal strike before I could use the Greenstone Amulet and then hit everyone with Smite via Frag Grenade to disperse the group, but none of it would have been necessary if it weren't for the bug--I could have easily just kept running. Since the bug was fatal, we can try again, but things look ugly.

    Apparently when Melissan casts 5 Gate spells at the same time, each one has the same probability--that is, rather than each of the 5 spells having a 10% chance of summoning one Balor, there's a 10% chance that all spells will summon 5 Balors. Since Glabrezus and Mariliths are immune to +1 weapons, that amounts to a 33% chance that her Gate spell will give us no valid targets for the Scorcher Ammunition. That really cuts into our options, and frankly the Fallen Solars are a lot to handle as well. It looks like our best bet is to use STR drain to land kills on the Five and hopefully use one of the surviving Five as a target to take down the Fallen Solars and, if applicable, any Glabrezus, Mariliths, or Balors Melissan may summon.

    By the way: the succubi drain levels on hit, and level drain removes all saving throw bonuses, even those from Hell. That means that engaging the succubi in melee puts you at risk of a charm-based kill unless you have immunity to the charm effect, since they can negate all of your saving throw bonuses and then charm you with a -5 penalty.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    Done! Turns out the blitzkrieg strategy was the ideal one. We took down Melissan without even giving her a single round to act. Basically, we just used Called Shot and the Scorcher Ammunition on both the Archer and the clone to quickly kill the Five one by one, starting with Sendai, with Yaga-Shura as the target. Our clone then activated Smite and hit Abazigal with the Scorcher Ammunition to catch Melissan within the stream, stunning her for 2 rounds without a saving throw. While Melissan was stunned, we used STR drain to take down the rest of the Five, until only Gromnir and Melissan were left.

    Our clone hit Gromnir with STR drain and caught the still-stunned Melissan in the stream, draining STR from both of them. Gromnir died first, leaving Melissan still in good health despite being stunned, but I knew that Melissan's STR was lowered. To finish her off, I targeted our clone with the Scorcher Ammunition, knowing that Melissan's already-drained STR would run out before the clone died. Melissan hit 0 STR less than a single second after she recovered from Smite to deliver her next dialog line, and the Solar intervened, ending the fight after just 10 minutes of recording time.

    I'm not pleased about the teleportation bug, since there's a chance it might have actually saved me by ruining my first attempt and letting me try again. But the end result was exactly what I hoped it would be: an extremely fast, extremely simple, extremely easy fight with Melissan.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    Not counting a cutscene crash at the bandit camp and the session with the teleportation bug, I have 50 video files of the entire run with a total run time of 38 hours and 38 minutes. I had hoped to edit the videos and produce a more polished product, but that could take a pretty long time depending on the circumstances. I have no experience editing video files, so I'd have to learn how before I could get to work.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    Congratz! @semiticgod I'm looking forward to watching some of those videos.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    The situation looks pretty nasty for single-classed warriors besides Archers. The Fallen Solars can cast Heal on Melissan every minute or 10 rounds, and Heal themselves every 5 rounds, so you'd really want to bring them down quickly. But since they can also cast Remove Magic every 5 rounds, you can't maintain Improved Haste without SI: Abjuration, so high APR is hard to achieve. Plus, the Fallen Solars can heal each other if you fail to disrupt their Heal spells. The net result is that kiting Melissan could take a really long time, since (1) you'd need to run from the Fallen Solars as well as Melissan herself, and (2) you'd need to disrupt the Fallen Solars' Heal spells when they tried to heal Melissan. Using a Protection from Magic scroll is another option: it won't stop Melissan from casting spells, but it'll prevent the Fallen Solars' Heal spells from affecting her.

    Unless you're willing to burn some Greater Whirlwind Attacks or use some really precise timing with Improved Haste to slip into the 5-round window between Remove Magic spells, you'd pretty much have to rely on the upgraded Ravager halberd to kill them via vorpal strike, since damage isn't very practical. For no-reload purposes, it would probably be worth it to dig deep into Watcher's Keep just so you'd have the Ravager +6 for Melissan.

    I think Archers are actually the strongest single-classed option for this challenge. They have a key combination of relevant skills: stealth for BG1, Arrows of Dispelling for SoD, Champion's Strength scrolls for Belhifet, and Called Shot for ToB. They have a solid means of overcoming all of the key bottlenecks of the challenge. I mean, they're still terrible overall, but for a single-classed character, they're very strong.

    I wish we had some viable way of getting single-classed thieves past Belhifet. If we could get them past that, pretty much every class could theoretically beat this challenge no-reload.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,097
    semiticgod wrote: »
    I wish we had some viable way of getting single-classed thieves past Belhifet. If we could get them past that, pretty much every class could theoretically beat this challenge no-reload.

    Although I've never done the battle, from what others have said it sounds like the use of good missile protection + lots of potions of invisibility would make hit and run using speed 0 weapons a realistic possibility.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    @Grond0: I'm not sure that applies in the latest update anymore. He now has -20 AC, so even a thief with 25 STR and the +3 longsword from SoD would only get -6 THAC0 at maximum with a Potion of Power active. With all relevant items and bonuses, and factoring in both critical hits and the acid damage that wouldn't get multiplied by critical hits, you could expect to deal 6.1625 net damage per round when considering Belhifet's 2 HP regeneration per round, in which case you could kill Belhifet in about 190 rounds on average if you drank a Potion of Invisibility every single round. Without the v2.5 update, you'd only need 118 rounds. If Belhifet summons 1.5 demons on average every 3 rounds, that's 95 demons summoned by the end, plus Hephernaan and the opening demons. I think you'd get cornered eventually.

    Still, I suspected that would hold for lower durations in that fight, and I was wrong before. But even then, that's a lot of stuff happening on the same map, and realistically the fight would take even longer due to human error and the need to re-drink other potions and such.
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    Congratz @semiticgod for another awesome run - a video footage of this one would be really cool. :)
    @semiticgod wrote: »I wish we had some viable way of getting single-classed thieves past Belhifet. If we could get them past that, pretty much every class could theoretically beat this challenge no-reload.

    Like @Grond0 stated there is a more ore less viable way - at least for Swashbucklers:
    200+ Invsibility Potions (should still be possible with SCS v32), AC against Missilies down to at least -11 (or -14 with Elves Bane) and a hit chance of 35% using the Acid Tongue +3 Longsword (30% with Elves Bane) against invsible Big B. We tested even a setup with Senses of the Cat Boots for -16 AC against Missiles which would help even more against the Erinyes (THAC0 = 0/-1). With careful movement hit & run is still possible once you get used to the flow - the number of demons does "not really" matter (at least if you dont get unlucky and Big B ports in one Erinyes after another). So the "only" things that can happen is getting critted badly by the Erinyes in a very short time, not being fast enough to get in and out of Big B or messing up the rebuffing with potions.

    Lets hope i havent messed up my to-hit-calculations:
    Elven Swashbuckler - Level 12
    15 Base
    12 Potion of Power (40 rounds)
    10 Swashbuckler Bonus
    3 Violet Potion
    2 Specialized
    1 Legacy of the Masters
    0 Chant
    -1 Luck
    -2 Bless
    -3 Elven Racial Bonus
    -6 Longsword +3
    -10 Invisiblity

    P.S. I also remember @histamiini almost beating Mel in a no-reload-run with a Dwarven Defender and i think with his present knowledge and skills he would be able to finish this even with 2.5 - no? B)
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    The Dwarven Defender would probably be the second-best single-classed character for the challenge. It's already the conventionally overpowered fighter class (it was clearly designed that way), and none of the disadvantages are really all that meaningful compared to its stupendous resistances. I mean, it can hit undispellable 93% damage resistance in Shadows of Amn for tens of rounds without even needing Hardiness; it's basically just immortal. The lack of invisibility options will definitely make BG1 a lot harder with the save fix installed, though.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    Rolled Alessia, a Sorcerer elf nR.


    BG1 weidu.log
    // Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
    // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
    // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1500 // Include arcane spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1510 // Include divine spells from Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3505 // Wider selection of random scrolls: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4000 // Faster Bears: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4020 // More realistic wolves and wild dogs: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4030 // Improved shapeshifting: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4115 // Thieves assign skill points in multiples of five: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Smarter Mages: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Smarter Priests: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6100 // Potions for NPCs: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved Spiders: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6300 // Smarter sirines and dryads: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6310 // Slightly harder carrion crawlers: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6320 // Smarter basilisks: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7000 // Improved doppelgangers: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7010 // Tougher Black Talons and Iron Throne guards: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7020 // Improved deployment for parties of assassins: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7030 // Dark Side-based kobold upgrade: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7040 // Relocated bounty hunters: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7050 // Improved Ulcaster: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7060 // Improved Balduran's Isle: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7070 // Improved Durlag's Tower: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7080 // Improved Demon Cultists: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7090 // Improved Cloakwood Druids: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7100 // Improved Bassilus: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7110 // Improved Drasus party: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7130 // Improved Red Wizards: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7140 // Improved Undercity party: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7200 // Tougher chapter-two end battle: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7210 // Tougher chapter-three end battle: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7220 // Tougher chapter-four end battle: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7230 // Tougher chapter-five end battle: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7250 // Improved final battle: v32 RC10
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7900 // Improved minor encounters: v32 RC10
    ~LOB_SAVE_FIX/LOB_SAVE_FIX.TP2~ #0 #0 // improve saving throws of all non-joinable creatures
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3040 // Make Bags of Holding Bottomless: v8
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3080 // Increase Ammo Stack Size -> Unlimited Ammo Stacking: v8
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3100 // Increase Potion Stacking -> Unlimited Potion Stacking: v8
    ~EEUITWEAKS/EEUITWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1070 // Faydark's Abilities Auto-Roller/GrimLefourbe's BG2 UI: 3.0

    Damn Sorcerer is weak at the beginning. Algernon ko'd me multiple times, and I had to go and buy more Darts so I could range him afar. It took 6 Magic Missiles and about 200 darts. Vitiare took over 600 Darts, and I had to still punch him unconsious and then hit him with Dart +1, I don't think that was worth it. And then I died on the Hobgobling ambush with 5 hp and no invisibility. Started all over again, and this time after killing Algernon went to High Hedge and bought Potion Case and three Invisibility scrolls. Tanya's Bowl doubled my hp to 10. Albert got me level 3 and chose PfE. Went in the mines thinking 3x Invisibility scrolls, Shield, 15 hp and 6 Health Potions would be enough. And I was correct, only used two potions to get to Mulahey. Mulahey charmed first try with the cloak. Used two invisibility scrolls. Spent my last Invisibility scroll when charmed Minsc hacked Nimbul. Finally got some hp with Familiar, 37 to be exact. Charmed Marl ko'd Tranzig unconsious and I then finished him. Magic Missiles and Pseudo Dragon killed Shoal for a level up, and got Invisibility. Lamalha Molkar waylays escaped. Also fetched Con and Cha tomes.


    After fetching Wand of Monster Summoning and killing Dushai with it, I bought rep to 14 and did the quests for 20/20 economy. Guards casually hacked Tarnesh. Charmed Meilum hacked Kahrk and with additional 3500 xp I got to fifth level. Fed him to Kobbos. After getting Knock I fetched some of the loot in Manors and Carnival. Noticed that Bentha could be charmed behind the bookcase, so that she could casually hack Zordral. Except she's somehow bugged and stopped hitting constantly, so I had to manually make her hit which was freaking annoying. Did Basilisk xp-loop and got enough xp for the 9th level. Then my pet petrified Kirian's party.


    Teven transported me to Bandit Camp. The usual, charmed and fed the named bandits for the enemies found in the forest. First Taurgosz and then Ramon. Then used Potion of Absorption and looted the tent. Passed Cloakwood invisible, then charmed Drasus gang one by one, starting from Drasus and feeding to guards. Mines passed invisible looting the stuff. Charmed guard hacked Davaeorn after luring the Battle Horrors out. Charmed Abela the Nymph hacked Ragefast and I got Nymph Cloak. Charmed Ramazith, he spent his spells and his Skeleton Warriors then killed him. Looted the tower. Summons and offensive spells wasted Dobbelgangers.


    Iron Throne, charmed Thaldorn and Diyab, who lured Kaalos backstage to be killed. Charmed the rest of them behind pillars, and they attacked Zhalimar. Somehow Gardush turned red circle and together with Zhalimar they actually wasted others. Had to rely on WoMS and spells in the end. Also found out that Lothander has second pair of Boots of Speed. He can be charmed beforehand and talked, that way he doesn't escape, then killed for the boots.


    Escaped Ogre Mage waylay with Invisibility Potion and looted Candlekeep bare. Charmed the Iron Throned leaders who made a mass suicide and looted the catacombs bare. Prat party charmed and fed to Basilisks. Belegarm sold also 20 Mordekain's Force Missiles and after bying all the scrolls with 40k I still had 30k left. Hasted Larze wasted Slythe. Fed charmed Quenash for Krystin. I rested and charmed Krystin, but trying to deplete her spells, she had the infinite spell bug too. So I laid 24 Skull Traps for her to step onto. And got one additional Skull Trap scroll for my troubles.


    Palace Ambush, charmed Assassin, Mage, Shaman and one Greater Dobbelganger before starting the fight. None died killing the two Greater Dobbelgangers. Recharmed Mage and Shaman, and waited Assasin to spawn to be killed. Recharmed Mage and Shaman before Greater one was waited and killed. Shaman was then, and nobody was killed. Although Mage managed to take all my spells, kill Belt and bunch of Fists. Waited Sarevok out with WoMS.


    It took about 15 WoMS to kill Lendarn and Ogre Mage in Firewine Ruins. Got two Stone Forms and one Power Potions and one Cloudkill, all important for a sorcerer. Looted Durlag's Tower upstairs and Warder level. Laid 18 Skull Traps for both Avarice, and Fear, who died instantly when I activated Love. This is probably the first time I've killed them both, bastards. After this WoMS and Ring of Energy easily handled Love, took 29 hits. Looted the Durlag's Goblet before leaving the Tower for good. In Underworld charmed Rahvin and fed for Skelis. Then charmed the rest, they hacked Tamoko and them fought themselves.


    The end fight was little pit different than before as Sarevok started suddenly wandering and attacking from fog of war. So I had to use invisibility potion to escape, then start hitting with WoF again. Still it took only 42 WoF hits to kill Angelo, Semaj, Tazok and Diarmid. Sarevok took 108 hits from WoF and 12 from OGL. Things used in this fight, 3x WoF, 1x OGL, 1x Invisibility potion and 2x PfU.


    Noticed that weapons are fairly useless for Sorcerer in 2.5 LoB, and used solely spells for damage. For poverty run in mind, I have to take damage spell from every level. Snilloc's Snowball Swarm is pretty good AoE damage spell as it's non magical and has only save for half. Other one that hurts even Bel is Lance of Distruption. Currently I see way to the Palace Ambush, but that's it. Next up Korlasz which could spell some trouble.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    edited May 2019
    What's this talk about strongest single classed characters huh? @semiticgod @Harpagornis Cavalier is still the top one for me, probably because I'm fanboy of it. :D Still it has the best immunities, summons, high DR, and bunch of situationally useful spells, like Sanctuary, Farsight, Silence '15 etc. And of course all the fighter stuff.

    So meet Lord Vanderley, so perfect Cavalier nR that he autorolled 102 with 18/00, which is pretty much the perfect roll. Plans include using some tricks in Hell. Like turning evil without losing Cavalier spells, nor Carsomyr +5 which is kept in the quick slot, so I can continue using it and still use Soul Reaver +4. And with the tear trick I plan to take 6 Str and 4 AC, which allows 25 Str with every weapon and ability to hit AC cap with BMU.

  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    @histamiini now playing two characters simultaneously. Hah, i always knew he is a Bot!! :D

    Somehow the game here has lost all quick- and autosaves so we had to start from an old manual save doing the whole leveling again. But with Level 9 just reached the rest should be easy going thanks to Pixie Dust. After Level 10 the real fun can start again. So far i am liking the Sunscorch + Alicorn Lance combo more and more as it takes away -6 AC (if they fail save vs spell and get blinded from Sunscorch) so the summons have an easy time to tear them apart. With good old Call Lightning from Level 3 the poverty Druid now has more options to play active at lower levels - i like that. :)
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    Unlike our Elder Gods @histamiini and @semiticgod we mere mortals always manage to struggle at one point. :D

    The first death followed after going afk again when fighting the Sirenes. Somehow one of them must have wandered around spotting Calenleya who was waiting in the background. Seeing the dilemma when getting back into action the Sirene landed another arrow injecting deadly poison. We tried to cast a good timed Slow Poison while retreating but with HP already down to 4 the last tick went off right when the spell went off - GG. Maybe we will finally learn to hit pause when leaving the game. :D

    The second death hit us against Davaeorn - a battle thats normally easy going. This time not only the quadruple Mental Domination failed but also his Lightning Bolt somehow cracked trough the whole central passage hitting Calenleya who was waiting near the stairs for 41 damage and - before we could react - a second time when bouncing of the wall for another 55 damage. 96 damage vs 92 HP - that was close again. This happens when one gets lazy about positioning and not casting Protection from Lightning. Could have been so easy. >:)

    Calenleya III. is already on the run to take revenge. Hopefully. :D
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    We tested a Bounty Hunter/Cleric using poverty rules against the Palace Ambush. To make it short: The result is depressing. Why? Cause in most cases only one of them gets hit - in best cases two. I am sure that SCS v32 has changed the transformation timers cause in the old days we could easily hit 3+. Even the lower numbers of affected targets might enough if the damage would kill them instantly or at least put them to nearly dead. But in most test fighs they only went down to injured - sometimes badly wounded - which in the long run wasnt enough.

    There might still be a glimmer of hope cause in one test fight we somehow managed to win with Liia untouched waiting in a side room while three Dopplegangers were mindlessly running up and down without attacking. We are not sure what caused this weird behaviour but it might be related to the Teleport field. If we could get this work consequently chances to beat the Palace Ambush will rise significantly. Further tests will be needed... :)
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    SCS doesn’t change that timer.
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,425
    edited May 2019
    Don't know if this is known but Alessia found a repeatable and pretty risk free tactic against Korlasz for all classes, well except for Wizard Slayer. You can hit her from out of sight with AoE damage, and then use Invisibility. The mob starts wandering around, but they've a timer, and about a turn they all return to their starting positions. So you can repeat the AoE + Invisibility combo. After Korlasz has under 71% health, in LoB under 139 hp you can casually talk to her and she surrenders. Magic AoE damage works right away, but for Fire you need to wait Korlasz Protection from Fire scroll out, which lasts 4 hours.

  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    Well, if its not SCS than Beamdog has changed something when implementing 2.5 - which is not nice for trap stacking lovers. :D

    However: After lots of testing we have most likely found a nice spot for the Shadowdancer/Cleric to start the Palace Ambush. If you move to the position and start casting the talking will trigger shortly after so the spell will finish before the Mage gets his precasted SCS spells. Silencing the Mage is even more important than the Shaman as he will summon all kinds of nasty stuff: Air Elemental, Water Elementals, Spiders. Not to forget his damage spells or instakills like Chromatic Orb. If Liia then throws out Teleport Field chances are high that several Dopplegangers will lose their target which makes them run around mindlessly for many rounds. Sometimes only one of them gets "confused" but in most cases two or even three are losing any targeting so they can be cleaned one after another. After that only the Mage remains which in several test fights had no chance against the remaining Skels - 2 or 3 should be still around - and the remaining guards. And even though Belt often times goes down pretty quickly Liia has so many defensive options that she can tank the Dopplegangers for a long time.


    So the more we are getting used to what looked like chaos before - summons all around, teleport field - can be either negated with Silence or works in our favour as the Dopplegangers lose targeting.

    Things that can still go wrong:
    - Mistiming the Silence
    - The Mage transforming too early (random)
    - Mage and/or Shaman saving against Silence
    - The Assassin ignoring all summons and landing a backstab
    - Stealth fails or Shadowstep goes out too late so the Assassin sneaks up
    - Dopplegangers not losing targeting (random)
    - Bad positioning and no stealth protection (Chromatic Orb, Assassin again)
    - Belt and Liia getting focused too hard (Air & Water Elementals)

    So in a no-reload-run many things have to turn in our favour but - unlike some days ago - this fight now looks manageable for Shadowdancer/Cleric even with poverty rules. Sarevok will the next tough nut to be cracked... :D

    P.S. Screenshots are finally working again thanks to window mode!!
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    Ziad XIII. - another Chaotic Evil Shadowdancer/Cleric is on the run after dying some more times before...

    Ziad II. was foolish enough to sneak into the Ankheg Cave before getting Shadowstep. After grabbing the body of Bruns sun the restealth failed and two hits put him down easily.

    Ziad III. managed to get to the Palace Ambush but after Silence failed to work against Mage and Shaman his troops were overrun by Dopplegangers and summons who killed Belt and Liia.

    Ziad IV. also managed to meet the Dopplegangers but even though Silence this time worked reastealthing failed and the Assassin instakilled him with a mighty backstab.

    Ziad V. was killed by the infamous Bandit Archer ambush after stealth failed to work.

    Ziad VI. was too slow gathering the documents in the Bandit Camp so right in the moment Shadowstep was about to trigger an Ice Arrow from one of the Black Talon Elites interrupted him.

    Ziad VII. again worked his path to the Palace Ambush but this time he got flanked from two teleporting Dopplegangers right in the moment he went out of shadows. With Shadowstep already used he tried to run but a big bad Air Elemental block the door nearby and the Dopplegangers had no problems to take him down.

    Ziad VIII. is the first who went for Level 6 Shadowdancer following the footsteps of @Grond0. The 10k extra XP needed required a lot of time - especially taking down Shoal or the Ogre Thief was all about patience. But all in all there is more than enough XP to reach Level 6 without touching any Basilisks:

    Candlekeep 300 XP
    Mad Arcand 300 XP
    Marl 900 XP
    Hobgoblin near Drizzt 200 XP
    Firebead Elvenhair 200 XP
    Brage 1000 XP
    Noober 400 XP
    Drienne 200 XP
    Albert 1000 XP
    Revenant 900 XP
    Samuel 500 XP
    Farmer Brun 1500 XP
    Tenya 2500 XP
    Shoal 5000 XP
    Osmadi 1000XP
    Quests in Nashkel Mine 1000 XP
    Ulcaster Book 1000 XP
    Traps and locks ~1000 XP
    Landrin's Possessions 600 XP
    Brage 1400 XP
    Nalin 1400 XP

    Brage and Nalin are another "easy" XP addition as both have bad AC (-1 and -2) so a Level 5 Shadowdancer "only" has to roll a 15 or 16 against them. The most critical part is to split them and not getting into range of anyone else outside as this will turn everyone hostile. Avoiding Nalins spells should be no big deal using the good old door trick. There is also no reputation loss when killing them.

    We have also made at least two obersavtions that should be of interest for @Grond0:
    1. The 100 HP healing when fighting for instances Shoal will only trigger if you move out of vision. Time is not a factor here.
    2. You can avoid the Ogre running around like mad if you NOT restealth immediately. Just give them some seconds for retargeting and they will stand still waiting for another punch. Same goes for Shoal, Brage and the others.

    With Mutamins Garden almost completly cleared its now time to unleash lots of Skels on the upcoming oppsition! :D
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,097
    We have also made at least two obersavtions that should be of interest for @Grond0:
    1. The 100 HP healing when fighting for instances Shoal will only trigger if you move out of vision. Time is not a factor here.
    2. You can avoid the Ogre running around like mad if you NOT restealth immediately. Just give them some seconds for retargeting and they will stand still waiting for another punch. Same goes for Shoal, Brage and the others.

    I think there may be other triggers for the HP gain as well - I agree going out of vision makes a difference, but I've seen the HPs added without doing that.

    As for the ogre he is definitely not the same as Shoal etc as his script is set to wander when enemies are out of sight. He may stand still long enough using the tactic you suggest for a few backstabs, but the number of those required means you will need to show yourself and start again multiple times (at least in my installation). That's perfectly possible of course, but does make the combat significantly more of a pain ;).
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    Hmmm.... maybe there are some differences regarding our installations @Grond0.

    At least here Shoal never heals if you stay in vision. We also tested speeding up time with CTRL+T but the healing even then only triggered when losing vision on her.

    We can confirm that the Ogre will indeed move around if you dont give him the time to target you. But if you give him at least four or more seconds he just moved to the point where he last saw the character and did nothing more. If we waited only for around one second he sometimes still moved even though this happened quite randomly. The slow approach should fix this - at least it works wonders in our installation! ;)
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,097
    We can confirm that the Ogre will indeed move around if you dont give him the time to target you. But if you give him at least four or more seconds he just moved to the point where he last saw the character and did nothing more. If we waited only for around one second he sometimes still moved even though this happened quite randomly. The slow approach should fix this - at least it works wonders in our installation! ;)

    That definitely sounds odd to me. Even back to vanilla that ogre had a wandering script and would start moving around pretty quickly if no enemies were in sight. However, take advantage where you can ...
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    Ziad VIII. keeps rolling...

    vs Mulahey: Silenced and feeded to the Skels
    vs Tranzig: Easy dinner for the Skels
    vs Bandit Camp: Silenced Raemon and grabbed documents
    vs Cloakwood: Skipped with Stealth and Shadowtep
    vs Davaeorn: Lured Battle Horrors away then Silence + Skels on Davaeorn for another easy kill
    vs Seven Suns: Just Skels
    vs Iron Throne: Stealthed in and out unseen
    vs Candlekeep Ambush: Hit Pause and Shadowstep after Cutscene to avoid them completly
    vs Canldekeep Catacombs: Only stopped for Basiliks & Phase Spider farming to reach Level 8
    vs Slythe: Silence & Raged up Skels

    So far everything was relatively easy thanks to the power of Silence and raged up Skels.

    Then he finally faced and cracked the Palace Ambush:
    - Four Skels – three of them them with Blood Rage – placed around the Assassin
    - DoHM to push Stealth up to 168+33
    - Well timed Silence so the casting started right before the talking triggered
    - Mage and Shaman failed their saves this time - finally (!)
    - Stealth worked so Ziad could move out of danger
    - Lesson to learn: Sanctuary is not enough vs the Mage who could still attack him
    - Teleport Field confused three Dopplegangers who were taken out without retaliation
    - Teleport Field also teleported Air & Water Elemental to the side rooms out of vision (!)
    - Engaging in close combat backfired as the Assassin instahitted for 46 damage - ouch
    - Losing vision on the Assassin gave him the opportunity to deathstab poor Liia
    - However: Belt and three Skels managed to take down the Mage and Shaman
    - The Assassin put up a good fight taking down two Skels while also nearly killing Belt
    - Lured Belt away from Sarevok and waited some time to instantly trigger his escape
    - Final standings: Ziad 22 HP, Belt 63 HP, Skel 45 HP. Victory!

    Time to prepare for Sarevok... :D
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited May 2019
    Okay, we got a plan to beat Sarevok:

    1. Place 80+ Glyphs of Warding around the spot where Diarmid will port in. As he randomly switches his place with Angelo the number has to be doubled. This will instakill Diarmid before he uses PfM scroll. Too bad Angelo will port in with Globe already up so he will take no damage.
    2. Use Dispel Magic to reveal Tazok and Semaj. This may need several rests as chances are low to get both.
    3. Dominate Tamoko and use the attack-trick to get her in the Temple summoning an Air Elemental. Use it together with Skels to hack Tazok and Semaj as low as possible. Beware: Killing them by accident will lead to instant loss as Angelo and Diarmid will no longer port in after Sarevoks talking.
    4. Let the Air Elemental retreat and protect it with Death Ward to avoid Chromatic Orb instakills
    5. Rage up two of three Skels and let them - hopefully - instakill silenced Semaj after talking to Sarevok before (!) his protections go up. Tazok should follow soon before sacrificing the Skels to Sarevok himself.
    6. Use the protected Air Elemental to 1vs1 Angelo who cant do much as his weapon cannot harm the Elemental. Thanks to his protections this may take a while.
    7. With Diarmid, Semaj, Tazok and Angelo dead only Sarevok should be left now.

    At the moment we can think of two ways to beat Sarevok:
    1. In case his Haste got dispelled Ziad could backstab him down. Thanks to 830 HP and rolls of 20s to hit him this should only take 8+ hours. Sounds doable no?
    2. Stack 1000+ Glyphs of Warding and lure him into this deathtrap. Sounds even easier...

    This leads to the following questions:
    1. Is there any limit regarding the number of placed Glyphs of Warding?
    2. In our tests we sometimes viewed a strange behaviour that Diarmid saved one or two times but then seemed to eat all of the following Glyphs. Could it be that number of saves is limited here or is just a display bug not showing the other rolls? -> Looks like a display bug!
    3. What are Sarevoks Saves in LoB with Save fix installed? Using CTRL+Q sometimes shows Save vs Spell: 6, sometimes its 2. The same goes for his AC where the -11 AC bonus sometimes is not applied so for instances my Spirit Animals still had an easy time to hit him. Another bug? A Save of 2 would force us to place many, many more Glyphs. Or are the Saves showed when using CTRL+Q not the real ones and we have to distract the -5 LoB Bonus? This one always confused me... :D

    Thanks for your help! :)
    Post edited by Harpagornis on
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