All I know is that before I installed Item Upgrades, I had hit multiple targets (much earlier in the game than where Angelo is now, incidentally - in a previous draft, he acquired UAI before leaving for Brynnlaw) and the dispel had never worked. After I installed Item Upgrades, it worked each and every time thereafter. I'd expect it to drop off in power through LoB anyway, but - contrary to initial expectations - Angelo won't actually be using it that much.
@Grond0, my link was for the Item Upgrades readme, which had the line that @Blackraven quoted. Installing mods and digging around in game files isn't something I'm good at (I mentioned on my very first post that I'd only just got mods working). I think I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.
That's certainly not what I'd like you to do. It's fun and educational to discuss tactics, abilities, game behavior etc. And together we can understand the game better.
- If I were to try my hand at this challenge again, what is the consensus on the most suitable classes/kits for the current version of LoB, i.e. with the massive AC bonus for enemies?
- Does the challenge currently presume the saving throws fix to be installed?
- Which class or kit could be played most similarly to a non-LoB solo run? I'm asking this because I'd like it if I didn't have to depend much on very exploity tactics.
I'd probably try a class that hasn't been taken through the saga yet. Last night I was thinking of rolling a Cleric/Ranger for a nice combo of stealth, physical power and some spell-casting. Their weapon restrictions are a downside though: no vorpal weapons such as the Wave, Axe of Unyielding, and Ravager, no Unholy Reaver, no dispel-on-hit weapons... Any ideas?
- If I were to try my hand at this challenge again, what is the consensus on the most suitable classes/kits for the current version of LoB, i.e. with the massive AC bonus for enemies?
I'm not sure there's a consensus, but I think it's certainly made things harder for straight warrior classes.
- Does the challenge currently presume the saving throws fix to be installed?
I don't think so. I've had it installed for a long time, but I've just updated my SCS installation from v32 to v33 and haven't added the fix. That was partly with a view to potentially trying out @Harpagornis tactic with a scroll of Ailment on Belhifet. That tactic would still be possible with the fix, but would become a long shot rather than a pretty decent prospect.
- Which class or kit could be played most similarly to a non-LoB solo run? I'm asking this because I'd like it if I didn't have to depend much on very exploity tactics.
I'd probably try a class that hasn't been taken through the saga yet. Last night I was thinking of rolling a Cleric/Ranger for a nice combo of stealth, physical power and some spell-casting. Their weapon restrictions are a downside though: no vorpal weapons such as the Wave, Axe of Unyielding, and Ravager, no Unholy Reaver, no dispel-on-hit weapons... Any ideas?
Cleric/Ranger sounds good. Cleric summons are very well suited to this challenge and clerical buffs can make fighting prospects a bit more reasonable. With the help of Champion's Strength scrolls and racial enemy you would be able to beat Belhifet down in straight melee in a way few other classes could manage.
Yeah, Cleric/Ranger is a good choice for sure @Blackraven. Like @Grond0 stated Big B should be a walk in the park with full buffs.
I dont think the LoB saving throw fix is a must have even though i installed it again one hour ago. The Cursed Scroll tactic might only work for Clerics then as Big B´s save vs death is -3. Without the fix this method works fine.
Oh, i wont update the Hall of Fame with regard to post all version numbers of all characters @AvidGamerFan but i might add actual runs or completed runs that i have missed in the past... ;o)
I dont think the LoB saving throw fix is a must have even though i installed it again one hour ago. The Cursed Scroll tactic might only work for Clerics then as Big B´s save vs death is -3. Without the fix this method works fine.
Druids and shamans would still have a chance even with the fix. With both doom and curse active there would be a 5% chance per attempt of beating his saving throw, though beating MR as well would reduce that to 4% per scroll - always assuming of course that an initial MR spell works and you are able to complete both doom and curse and get them past his remaining MR ...
Druids and shamans would still have a chance even with the fix. With both doom and curse active there would be a 5% chance per attempt of beating his saving throw, though beating MR as well would reduce that to 4% per scroll - always assuming of course that an initial MR spell works and you are able to complete both doom and curse and get them past his remaining MR ...
Sounds like the kind of odds that you'd happily take! Will we see a @Grond0 run Druid or Shaman join the challenge?
Before you brought this up the Avenger had come to my mind, simply because without the saves fix, Chromatic Orb has proven to be really good even in BG2. In a LoB party run, Aerie and Jan have used it for insta-killing golems (after lowering their resistances) for example. Still, the odds of slaying Belhifet, whose save vs spells is 8 after Curse and Doom, with a Chromatic Orb are very poor for an Avenger, 8% if you can land all the precursory spells I think.
Anyway, I've rolled my Cleric/Ranger, Erelyn:
I quickly got a great (manual) roll: 97 attribute points and 18/00 STR! Her starting profs are ** hammers and ** slings. I noticed that at level 1 she can only cast Cleric spells, so no Druid spells. I thought this was a bug, and that Cleric/Rangers were supposed to get access to level 1-3 Druid spells as soon as their Cleric part has the experience level to cast spells from said levels. However when I gave her 161k XP with EEKeeper, and leveled her up, Entangle and Sunscorch were added to her level 1 spells. I assume this is the work of CDTweaks' IWD2 spell progression table for Rangers and Paladins, pursuant to which Rangers get their first spell at experience level 7. Note that she doesn't get extra casts per day from her Ranger levels. I don't think I mind doing without the druid spells initially, so I'll just leave my install the way it is.
Erelyn has just left Candlekeep, where she avoided Shank and Carbos and the rats. I intend to post short, frequent updates instead of long walls of text covering big parts of the game as I often do, so I hope to be back soon with a first update.
Edit: I decided not to install the saves fix. First of all I'll mostly be using buffs and summons rather than save or else spells, so it won't make a big difference. Second, I also like to play using more casual, non-LoB settings and installing/uninstalling the fix every time I switch between settings is a bit of a hassle (and something I'm likely to forget at times).
- If I were to try my hand at this challenge again, what is the consensus on the most suitable classes/kits for the current version of LoB, i.e. with the massive AC bonus for enemies?
Warriors suffer in the early game, no denying that, but BG items are so good that you can largely avoid direct combat. Once BG2 arrives, every class has their fair share of overpowered options, so it becomes something of a personal preference. Without wanting to spoil too much, I'd personally say that thieves (but not bards) have it roughest, followed by divine casters (druids and clerics), with warriors steadily improving as the saga goes on and arcane casters faring the best throughout. That said, multi-classing makes thieves and divine casters much more viable and it's always better to go with a character you enjoy.
- Does the challenge currently presume the saving throws fix to be installed?
Not necessarily. I personally haven't got it installed (don't want the effect spilling over into non-LoB games), but I try to ensure that Angelo's adventures don't rely on a failed save occurring at a particular point. For instance, whenever Feeblemind has been used, the monster hasn't turned hostile if it made its save, so the improved saves would only lengthen the time I spent casting it. If the improved save would neuter an approach (i.e. the monster would always resist with improved save, but might succumb without), I'd think twice before using it, although I don't think that I've encountered this yet. Given that I'm exploiting other gameplay holes that are likely unintended (e.g. wouldn't Firkraag turn hostile if the PC unsuccessfully cast Feeblemind?), it would seem hypocritical if I got hung up that the saving throw penalty wasn't implemented properly?
- Which class or kit could be played most similarly to a non-LoB solo run? I'm asking this because I'd like it if I didn't have to depend much on very exploity tactics.
Everyone has their own definition of exploitative tactics, and it's individual preference as to where the line is drawn. It's also difficult to answer the question because, in some ways, exploits win out. I would imagine that the most 'exploit-free' run might come from warriors, because they have the least access to spells or other sneaky stuff... but will that not force you to exploit the limited items you can use even harder? Personally, I would advise not to start a run with pre-conceived notions of what is and isn't acceptable, as I found my own preferences changing with time. For instance, I've now accepted that Level 1-Martyr's 'abuse' is actually a clever use of the game's mechanics (its job is to prevent level 1 characters dying in 1 hit, and you're applying that to an unexpected situation).
I'd probably try a class that hasn't been taken through the saga yet. Last night I was thinking of rolling a Cleric/Ranger for a nice combo of stealth, physical power and some spell-casting. Their weapon restrictions are a downside though: no vorpal weapons such as the Wave, Axe of Unyielding, and Ravager, no Unholy Reaver, no dispel-on-hit weapons... Any ideas?
Excellent idea! A ranger/cleric has always seemed more appealing than a fighter/cleric, so go for it! I think the consensus is that they shouldn't get access to higher level druid spells, but the lower level ones can be surprisingly useful in LoB. Their downside, as you say, would be lack of weapon versatility. I imagine you'd be dual-wielding some combination of Defender of Easthaven, Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyr most of the time, but they have neither speed weapons nor the Darkfire bow (for Improved Haste) available, which further limits their deadliness. Also, be careful with the final battle: as @monico showed, if Magic Resistance-Critical Strike-Harm doesn't work, it can descend into a slugfest.
Warriors suffer in the early game, no denying that, but BG items are so good that you can largely avoid direct combat. Once BG2 arrives, every class has their fair share of overpowered options, so it becomes something of a personal preference. Without wanting to spoil too much, I'd personally say that thieves (but not bards) have it roughest, followed by divine casters (druids and clerics), with warriors steadily improving as the saga goes on and arcane casters faring the best throughout. That said, multi-classing makes thieves and divine casters much more viable and it's always better to go with a character you enjoy.
Your ranking looks plausible. LoB Bard I find very good in BG1, and I might have gone with that if I didn't have a party run going with one. Swashbuckler should be a great late bloomer but otherwise I agree with you on thieves. Arcane seems good only in multi or dual-classes imo.
For instance, whenever Feeblemind has been used, the monster hasn't turned hostile if it made its save, so the improved saves would only lengthen the time I spent casting it.
Well-argued (and I had no idea about Feeblemind not angering neutral characters!).
I would advise not to start a run with pre-conceived notions of what is and isn't acceptable, as I found my own preferences changing with time.
I'll try this. I still can't see myself kill innocents like Dushai and Algernon, although I'm willing to charm Algernon with Lord Foreshadow's ring or a Mental Domination spell and try to get him killed by Karlat, Silke or Tranzig.
Excellent idea! A ranger/cleric has always seemed more appealing than a fighter/cleric, so go for it! I think the consensus is that they shouldn't get access to higher level druid spells, but the lower level ones can be surprisingly useful in LoB. Their downside, as you say, would be lack of weapon versatility. I imagine you'd be dual-wielding some combination of Defender of Easthaven, Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyr most of the time, but they have neither speed weapons nor the Darkfire bow (for Improved Haste) available, which further limits their deadliness. Also, be careful with the final battle: as @monico showed, if Magic Resistance-Critical Strike-Harm doesn't work, it can descend into a slugfest.
I think my Cleric/Ranger eventually gets access to level 4 Druid spells as well with my CDTweaks IWD2 ranger/paladin spell progression table, if only upon reaching Ranger level 15. That's what the IWD2 manual suggests at least. But I don't think that's such a big deal, as the real game changers are the level 5-6-7 spells (Ironskins, Insect Plague, Fire Elemental, Nature's Beauty).
As for the lack of versatility, I could allow a few Item Upgrades (maybe one of those clubs) although I understand that it wouldn't be in keeping with the nature of this challenge to include a lot of mod items. In any event I'll have the Sleeper (Any human or demihuman, excluding elves, hit by the Sleeper must save vs. Poison with a +4 bonus or fall asleep for 3 rounds) and Everard's Morningstar (50% chance per hit of making targeted spellcaster lose one spell from memory) to play with, FoA's Slow effect is really good, and so is the upgraded Staff of the Ram's on-hit effect.
I think my Cleric/Ranger eventually gets access to level 4 Druid spells as well with my CDTweaks IWD2 ranger/paladin spell progression table, if only upon reaching Ranger level 15. That's what the IWD2 manual suggests at least. But I don't think that's such a big deal, as the real game changers are the level 5-6-7 spells (Ironskins, Insect Plague, Fire Elemental, Nature's Beauty).
For me, a druid's biggest strength is the combination of their spell list with their rapid progression. It's the fact that they can reach level 6 spells near enough straight out the blocks in SoD which gives them their invulnerable summon and Belhifet nuke, and the massive upgrade in spells at level 15 makes dual-classing at (or just after) that point practically irresistible. It's little surprise that relatively good progress has been made in poverty runs with druids since they have such an early power spike. They pay for it later, though, so I'm not surprised to see these poverty runs peter out past early SoA.
Well there is the tedium of gaining 16 Fighter levels or 2 million XP, although I remember wily old @Harpagornis did that really fast with the Shield of Balduran and rest-spammed gauths in the Athkatla sewers.
Yeah... i dualed my Totemic Druid at level 18 to Fighter @Blackraven using the Gauth-XP-loop and this worked like a charm even though i might prefer an Avenger nowadays which proved to be strong even in our poverty run where he is still waiting to face Abazigal and Sendai which most likely will be game over. SoA was more or less a speed run in the park thanks to Harm + Elemental Princess @AvidGamerFan. ;o)
Yeah... i dualed my Totemic Druid at level 18 to Fighter @Blackraven using the Gauth-XP-loop and this worked like a charm even though i might prefer an Avenger nowadays which proved to be strong even in our poverty run where he is still waiting to face Abazigal and Sendai which most likely will be game over. SoA was more or less a speed run in the park thanks to Harm + Elemental Princess @AvidGamerFan. ;o)
You managed to get your poverty Avenger all the way to Amkethran?! Wow. Colour me seriously impressed... as far as I was aware, the run had stalled after Belhifet! Still, when I ranked divine casters below warriors, I was thinking about this sort of late-game situation. I would have expected druids to tail off somewhat once their summons lost their lustre, but it seems I underestimated them by predicting this would happen much earlier than it did.
Druids and shamans would still have a chance even with the fix. With both doom and curse active there would be a 5% chance per attempt of beating his saving throw, though beating MR as well would reduce that to 4% per scroll - always assuming of course that an initial MR spell works and you are able to complete both doom and curse and get them past his remaining MR ...
Sounds like the kind of odds that you'd happily take! Will we see a @Grond0 run Druid or Shaman join the challenge?
Shagrat, LoB half-orc shaman (update 1)
In response to @Blackraven, I thought I'd pick up this character again - which was generated as one of my early attempts at the challenge. I think my original efforts with it were probably just using my standard restrictions. Even though that seemed pretty tough going at the time, I've had quite a bit more experience with shamans since then and decided this run should be with the Bane of the Wizard Slayer. It probably won't get too far, but on the upside I've still not reinstalled the LoB save fix - so, if by some freak of chance he got as far as Belhifet, he would potentially have a decent chance using a Scroll of Ailment in the same way as a cleric or druid.
I suffered one quick death when not realizing that Imoen would fight back with my updated installation. Starting again, she (and Xzar & Montaron) died quickly. The next fight on the agenda was Drizzt. He didn't exactly die quickly - but he did die to boost Shagrat to level 4.
With most equipment for this challenge not allowed, Shagrat felt able to buy the Dagger of Venom early (at a higher price than usual) before going to the basilisk area. Along with Hentold's dagger, that allowed him to help Korax finish off paralyzed basilisks fairly quickly. The southern group of basilisks took Shagrat to level 5. The separated basilisks to the north also went down quickly, but Korax was slowed and struggled to paralyze Mutamin. I thought that would mean he would go hostile before he could finish off the basilisks, but surprisingly he stuck around just long enough for that - giving Shagrat his 6th level as a result.
That provided an upgrade for dancing summons and the improved versions had no problem in dealing with Korax once he went hostile a couple of seconds later. I attempted to separate out Kirian's group, but all of the others followed Peter after he saved against a charm person and Shagrat had to run for it (as SCS enemies would prefer to target him than his spirits unless in direct melee - and sometimes even then).
Despite making no progress against Kirian, that was a pretty successful visit to the basilisk area to complete the first stage of Shagrat's development.
With spirits now being substantially more powerful, they did most of the work against battle horrors. Those have a pretty good chance of working through spirits before they can be refreshed in non-LoB, but the greater emphasis on defense in LoB sharply reduces that chance. While the battles were long (with the spirits needing a critical to hit), Shagrat only had to move and re-start dancing once while finishing off the 2 on the path. In SCS the skeletons on the wall all follow the battle horror to the end, so spirits acted there as arrow sponges before Writhing Fogs and Spike Growths cut the battle horror down.
With the exterior cleared, Shagrat went inside and picked up a bit more easy XP by passing some 'nymph' hair onto Riggilo. That left him just short of level 7, so I decided to kill the ghast blocking the route onto the roof. My memory had been that so long as you don't let it get closer to the others, it's possible to tackle that one alone. Unfortunately either my memory was wrong or the new setup has slightly changed things, as the ambush by spirits looked perfect - but the others started pouring out shortly afterwards. I was a bit slow and didn't start running as soon as the first new one was sighted and was quickly blocked off from the stairs. The ghasts' bumping together makes it hard to determine where they will move to and I soon found all other routes blocked - except the one through the hold trap. That duly did the hard work for the ghasts ...
@Grond0 I was going to say good to see Shagrat back in action, but alas...
Erelyn, CG Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger (1)
Erelyn looked at the specific challenges on page 1 of this thread and considered the Adventurer challenge until she realized she'd already broken the rules, having bought some Stone to Flesh scrolls to depetrify Tamah and Corianna. I'm sure it's for the better because I haven't played the solo challenge in three years or so.
She's made a cautious start, one that I've used before in solo LoB play, consisting of collecting XP that doesn't require you to kill any creatures. She made it to about 16k XP. Copy/pasted and slightly edited from another post in the "Maybe this time" thread:
– Candlekeep 400 XP (incl. BGQE mod 100 XP for Sir Trun while forgoing XP from rats/Reevor, Carbos and Shank)
– Firebead 300 XP
– Marl 900 XP
– Alanna’s neighbor (BGQE) 500 XP
– Family heirloom (BGQE) 500 XP
– Coquetle 250 XP
– Wounded hobgoblin in Drizzt area 200 XP (picking up Drizzt's gear as well)
– Landrin 600 XP (Sanctuary for the boots and wine, Spider has to wait)
– Brun 1500 XP (using Sanctuary to loot the ankheg hoard)
– Tenya 2500 XP
– Frightened widow (BGQE) 300 XP
– Corianna (BGQE) 100 XP
– Drunk near Beregost temple (BGQE) 100 XP
– Tamah 300 XP
– Noober 400 XP
– Albert & Rufie 1000 XP
– Drienne 200 XP
– Neville 100 XP (telling him to hand over his possessions)
– Brage 1000 XP
– Noober and Joseph’s wife (BGQE) 150 XP
– Arcand the mad 300 XP
– Kylee’s dagger 200 XP
- Joseph's ring 800 XP
- Revenant's dagger 900 XP
– Samuel 500 XP
- Ulcsaster's tome 1000 XP
- Corrupted iron ore for Faerom Tuiruim (BG1 UB) 750 XP
Mildly interesting was Erelyn's meeting with Tenya. She could have easily fallen there. First of all, Tenya's Spiritual Hammer somehow struck twice in one hit while Erelyn was trying to cast a Magical Stone at the young priestess. I hadn't leveled Erelyn up yet, and she escaped with a single HP and Sanctuary.
A second attempt didn't work much better at all. Erelyn successfully cast her Magical Stone at Tenya while the latter was casting a divination spell, but apparently the distance was too large. I could hear Tenya start her speech but then she changed her mind and cast a Hold Person at the still distant Erelyn, who then walked to south as far as possible, tried to stealth, failed, and got Held.
On her third try Erelyn attacked from the entrance of Tenya's home, intent on using the door to avoid any spells, and walking toward her if she managed to deal any damage. She landed a crit, and that was that.
There were two bandit ambushes during her early travels, and she was critically hit once in each ambush. But she already had 39 HPs from being level 3/3 during the first ambush, so the double damage from disabling the No difficulty-based damage changes was thankfully tolerable. You guys do play with double damage enalbled yes? With the ankheg armor, a ring of protection +1, and a large shield, the bandits had difficulty hitting her.
In Beregost Erelyn got her hands dirty for the first time. She "invited" Algernon for a drink in the Red Sheaf, but an aggressive dwarf there slew the poor guy.
A Hold Person cast at Drizzt's armor from out of sight of Karlat allowed Erelyn to avenge her fallen friend.
The same tactic she used south of Beregost to obtain a pair of boots of stealth.
Erelyn made another friend at Firewine Bridge, a priest of Ilmater named Bentan, but when they ran into Meilum, the good priest took on more suffering than he could handle. Again, an out-of-sight Hold Person (and two hammers) ensured that the aggressor would harm no one else.
Bassilus, whose prebuffs and aerial servant were triggered and waited out,
and Tarnesh were two more victims of Hold Person, before Erelyn went shopping. With a lot of useless loot, she made about 35k, so she could easily buy full plate and a large shield +1 in Beregost, and a wand, cloak, and ring in Ulgoth's Beard. She keeps Drizzt's armor for scouting purposes but likes to have full plate available for the better AC modifiers and the ability to wear a protection item.
Erelyn then traveled to Mutamin's garden, where she managed to lure a not yet recruited Korax to the south of the map, my preferred starting place for basilisk hunting. The pair got through the first eight without difficulty, with Erelyn starting out with her sling and moving in, dual-wielding, as soon as each basilisk was paralyzed. She had reached level 5 as a Cleric when the first greater basilisk fell, so she could have lost Korax at that point, and rely on skeletons, but Korax managed to crit and paralyze Mutamin after having been subjected to a harmless Hold Person and a Melf's Acid Arrow. I forced the ghoul to focus on the gnome even though it was more eager to attack the nearby greater basilisk.
An able Mutamin could have cast Chromatic Orb at Korax or worse, Erelyn. We slew Mutamin and both remaining basilisks, walked toward Kirian's party, and got distracted by a flind. That flind took enough of our time to make Korax go hostile, so Erelyn was happy to finish off the paralyzed flind and depart with a full inventory. Kirian can wait for another day.
She's currently level 5/5, at close to 46k XP. Two skeletal summons now available should help her further increase her experience.
Su´rakka the Half-Orc Shadowdancer joins the dark spots of this challenge after i had played this class a lot in the last weeks trying to bang my head through the Bane of the Wizard Slayer.
After this Su´rakka reached level 9 and will start the main quest line soon. But not all went smooth: I managed to get affected by both Horrors of Tarnesh thanks to misclicking but it looked his script was broken cause he did not move trying to bash Su´rakka into the ground. Against the Battle Horrors at Durlags Tower – which took some time as she needed at least a 19 to hit them – she was nearly killed after going afk for a minute while forgetting to hit pause. Stealth broke and she was already down to 18 HP before i could act again. Holy cow, it looks like i should focus more on the game. As i am trying not to abuse the infinite stealth trick too heavily the sirens forced her to drink six antidots making the encounter at least a bit of a bit fight while the Greenstone Amulet blocked all charm attempts. The 19 strength right from the start really shines... at least for the moment! *G*
Su´rakka the Half-Orc Shadowdancer joins the dark spots of this challenge after i had played this class a lot in the last weeks trying to bang my head through the Bane of the Wizard Slayer.
Yes! Another heroic adventurer in the challenge! A single-class Shadowdancer seems ill-suited for the ToB part of the saga to me, but you know a lot better what you're doing than me. I was thinking that without the saves fix, Assassin could regain some of their former glory in the LoB challenge.
You've made good progress, dealing some enemies that I'm reluctant to take on, such as flesh golems, and especially Kirinhale. I've been trying with three skeletons but she just drains their CON and DEX. Erelyn uses the Greenstone amulet for charm protection but she too has seen her health deteriorate rapidly even from a distance. She's going to try her luck elsewhere. How do you tackle her?
I only did Kirinhales quest for fast and easy 4k XP @Blackraven! Yeah, i am aware that ToB... if she will ever get there... will be tough and that a Shadowdancer dualed later on to Fighter would be better but that just increases the fun, no? *G*
Flesh Golems for instance were easy prey for her as should could stealth all day long without the slow ones being able to touch her.
Mulahey got stabbed to death after she killed her guards one after another landing even a mighty 117 damage backstab. Cool stuff.
Tranzig got mauled by Karlat who was stabbed by Su´rakka shortly after while the Bandit Camp was an quick in and out using Shadow Step. The poor ones did not even notice what happened.
@Grond0 I was going to say good to see Shagrat back in action, but alas...
Don't despair
Shagrat, LoB half-orc shaman (update 1)
Starting again, Shagrat dealt with some early sources of big XP. Drizzt was beaten unconscious by a gnoll while I did a few hours work. Shagrat then took a risk by travelling quite extensively while raising reputation to 20, but was fortunate not to have any nasty ambushes. With the Dagger of Venom purchased he once more followed Korax round and once more successfully killed all the basilisks to get to level 6.
Before going to Durlag's Tower, this time he used spirits to soak up some spells from Tarnesh before gobbling him up - enabling him to get into the FAI and purchase Buckley's Buckler.
At Durlag's Tower, clearing the outside got Shagrat close to level 7 and I decided it would be fitting to kill a few ghasts to get revenge for the previous run - the first of those being sufficient for the level.
Although the SCS ghasts are dangerous with the way they move in packs, wander round and jump between levels (not necessarily using the same stairs as you) I was feeling stubborn and Shagrat successfully killed the remainder of them in the tower, though he got a bit close to ghasts for comfort on a couple of occasions.
Heading north, the next target was ankhegs. While they hit hard, they're more predictable than ghasts and there were no problem setting up spirits to attack those. Returning the bowl to Tenya was then enough for level 8. That's important as controllable summons make using spirits easier as well as offering lots of spell options from both nymphs and Shagrat to speed up fights.
I only did Kirinhales quest for fast and easy 4k XP @Blackraven!
Hm new sh*t has come to light, as the Dude would say. All this roaming about for bits of free XP, and I always skip the biggest free XP reward... I'll add it to my list from now on.
Erelyn's positive experiences with Mutamin's basilisks prompted her to seek out more of the lizards at Durlag's Tower. Her animated skeletons did all the work for her. She picked up a tome of understanding, then tried her luck against the two battle horrors on the path to the tower. Her skeletons lured the first one to the north, so that they didn't have to deal with both monsters at the same time. The undead couldn't harm them, and neither could Erelyn really, with her weapons that is. She needed crits or at least very high rolls and she got none, while the battle horrors injured her with ease. She Doomed the battle horrors and spent no less than sixteen charges from her wand of the heavens on the two of them.
Her reward from the basilisks and the battle horrors was a level-up in each of her classes. Upon reaching Cleric level 6, she unlocked level 1 Druid spells, i.e. Entangle and Sunscorch. I really don't know how a Cleric/Ranger's access to Druid spells works in my set-up with IWD2 spell progression, but I'll just let the game surprise me. At Ranger level 6, she spent a second proficiency pip on flails/morning stars.
As mentioned in a previous post, Erelyn also attempted to murder Kirinhale, but she stood no chance against the succubus due the creature's DEX and CON drains. Her skeletons were equally powerless, so the fiend will either live or fall later.
Erelyn got the girdle of piercing from the rogue ogre, and visited the High Hedge for the first time, where she slew two flesh golems with sling bullets +2 from Ulgoth's Beard and from Erdane. The golems have poor AC. Erelyn even hit them rolling a 10, with Meilum's gauntlets as her only Thac0 booster.
Next, she went after Shoal and Droth on the northern coast, where she would resort to unconventional tactics for the first time.
First, three skeletons were summoned. Then she approached Shoal under Sanctuary. The nereid addressed Erelyn, kissed her and dropped the Cleric/Ranger unconscious with 1 HP. Her Sanctuary was still in effect though, so she could retreat and heal up. In the meantime the skeletons were making short work of Shoal. So Erelyn joined the battle before she'd fully healed herself, and landed a hit. It prompted Shoal to surrender.
Droth appeared and Erelyn immediately distanced herself, hoping the ogre mage would focus on her skeletons. If not, she had potions of magic blocking at hand. Droth cast an Icelance at her, which she could easily counter with the Belt of Antipode. When she failed to Silence Droth, she decided to finish off Shoal away from the ogre mage, and wait for the latter to dispatch her skeletons. She rested and tried again with Silence, skeletons to soak up any spells he'd cast afterwards, a few flamestrikes from her wand, and ranged attacks with her +2 bullets. This proved to be a waste of wand charges and bullets, and even a potion of mind focusing for better Thac0.
Erelyn took her losses, cast Sanctuary and rested. Instead of Animate Dead she memorized Glyph of Warding. She placed them on the waterfront, rested away from that location so as not to have the glyphs triggered by ambushers, and repeated this several times, until she'd placed about 27 or 30. She then cast Silence at Droth from out of her enemy's sight, Doomed him, but failed to Curse him as her foe escaped the spell's AoE. She tried to Blind him with Sunscorch but he saved twice. Had he not, then Erelyn would have added Chant to further lower his saves. Chant in SCS v33 halves the priest's movement speed, so I deemed it unsafe to cast it at a non-blinded Droth. Either way, she decided to take her chances: she charmed her foe with Algernon's cloak and led him straight into her traps. Even without Curse and Chant his saves didn't save him...
Further south, Erelyn's skeletons dispatched nine sirines. She contributed with sling bullets, and she spent a potion of magic blocking and one of clarity in the process when Chant + poor positioning kept her from retreating out of sight before her foes could complete castings of Dire Charm. She also dispatched all three flesh golems in Black Alaric's cave with more +2 bullets. She triggered the hold and charm traps with a charge from the Greenstone Amulet, and she used her skeletons to lure the flesh golem in the eastern part of the cave toward the entrance so that she didn't have to trigger the Glyph of Warding trap there.
The final flesh golem made her reach level 7 as a Cleric, her final BG1 Cleric level, giving her better saves (for what that's worth at this point for a non-shorty), access to level 4 spells, and an upgrade to her skeletons.
At the Nashkel Carnival she sold the Greenstone Amulet and the Wand of the Heavens and bought back a recharged wand. She didn't have enough coin to purchase the amulet back.
Character record and inventory screen:
Interestingly, she has the exact same amount of kills as Grond0's Shagrat (24), but 20k more XP.
Question: how do you get Neera's gem bag, the only gem bag if I'm not mistaken, in this challenge? I guess you have to kill her no?
Fine progress so far @Blackraven and even @Grond0 managed to reanimate himself. ;o)
It seems that the latest SCS version makes party NPC´s unkillable, which opens the path for some funny stuff as you can charm and turn them into immortal tanks!
My installation is doing funny stuff cause i stumbed into something i have never watched before. When facing Molkar and his party ten bandits joined the fun in the middle of the fight forcing Su´rakka to abuse the stealth mechanics a bit more...
@Harpagornis, very nice to see Su`rakka continue quite stoically in the face of such opposition! I've only had this happen in Dorn's ambush, with extra hobgoblins, never in this one.
It seems that the latest SCS version makes party NPC´s unkillable, which opens the path for some funny stuff as you can charm and turn them into immortal tanks!
This change seems to offer us interesting opportunities, for example when dealing with the Crusader waves
Too bad in SoD the party NPC´s are killable again @Blackraven - at least in my installation. Damn it!
I see... Is that with or without the Improved NPC Customisation component?
I think there are various different things going on. I don't think the NPC customization makes NPCs immortal, though their starting HPs are not the same as usual and it may take several hits to kill them. I think Neera is a special case though as she now gets a min HP item to ensure she doesn't get killed and lose you access to her quest. I've tried several different strategies, but have yet to find one that allows me to get the gem bag from her (without recruiting her) in my SCS installation.
In my current run I was hoping she would die from additional damage after I told her to leave (when she was at 1 HP). That's worked in other installations, but she shrugged off a LMD this time.
The first port of call for Shagrat's new nymphs was the seaside. One consequence of the higher LoB levels is that the nymph call lightnings are both vicious and produce multiple bolts. That helped quickly wear sirines down to size, allowing spirits to finish off the left-overs. Inside the cave, golems' poor AC allowed spirits to tear through them much quicker than against most enemies. Shagrat had taken storm shell as one of his 3rd level spells and that allowed him to tank the lightning glyph trap with confidence, though he saved anyway. I did though find the performance of the nymphs disappointing - their AI brings them back to the PC whenever there are no enemies in sight, making them much more troublesome to use as scouts, lures and decoys than expected (I seem to remember that as a feature of an earlier SCS version, which I thought had been removed, but apparently not).
A couple more golems died at High Hedge when Shagrat went to get the tome identified. With the potion case obtained, I thought it was about time to get the gem bag. I expected that Neera couldn't be killed ahead or during combat with the Red Wizards, but nymphs made that combat easy and I thought a LMD would finish Neera off as she was walking away - but she was still protected.
Shagrat went to get the charisma tome as well, but deemed it not worth using up a scroll of PfM to get the wisdom tome from Durlag's.
Next up was another trip to the coast with the aim of getting some new headgear. The initial contact with Shoal didn't go well, but nymphs helped beat Shoal up sufficiently for her to summon Ogre Droth. Shagrat retreated as Droth was teleporting in, allowing the nymphs to first use lightning on him, then confusion and finally hold monster.
After grabbing the helmet, the nymphs also killed Shoal as the XP for that is far greater than for completing the quest. The ogre clan and more sirines added to the XP haul there.
That left Shagrat not too far away from another level and he went to find Bassilus. He took advantage there of the SCS tendency for enemies to break off casting if you move out of their sight and spirits eventually wore Bassilus down despite an accompanying skeleton warrior.
The main idea of visiting there was to rescue Melicamp to get the remaining XP needed for another level, but Melicamp snuffed it during his attempted shape change. However, a trip to the minesite obtained the necessary XP even before spirits ground their way slowly through the Doomsayer.
Good progress Grond0! Shagrat has already taken down some foes that Erelyn may well shun.
There's not much progress to report here but an interesting finding. There is someone capable of taking down Neera without Charname having to recruit her first: Silke. Erelyn charmed the wild mage with Algernon's Cloak before she could petition for help. The Neera I got was the 10 HP SCS NPC customisation version. She was ordered to wait right next to Silke while Erelyn summoned some skeletons and went to have a word with Garrick. The two walked back to Silke and Neera and a well-timed hit on the space bar allowed Erelyn to start a casting of Sanctuary right before Silke addressed her. Thus when combat started, Silke attacked Neera. She dealt 18 physical damage in three hits without killing her, as expected. However Silke then fired two Chromatic Orbs at Neera from a minor sequencer. As LoB turns Silke into a level 22 Bard, those Chromatic Orbs had a slay effect, and apparently that did the job.
Not the best screenshot as I only took it for the combat log, but you might be able to make out the death animation over Neera's body.
The soft-hearted role-player in me doesn't particularly enjoy NPC deaths, but Erelyn can't help being extremely timid (7 CHA) and relying on Algernon's cloak to make friends hehe.
Thus when combat started, Silke attacked Neera. She dealt 18 physical damage in three hits without killing her, as expected. However Silke then fired two Chromatic Orbs at Neera from a minor sequencer. As LoB turns Silke into a level 22 Bard, those Chromatic Orbs had a slay effect, and apparently that did the job.
That makes sense. The standard minHP item only provides protection against physical damage, not death effects or stat drains.
The Nashkel Mine is a real pain for characters without invisibility or equivalent abilities. Shagrat's spirits could take on lots of standard kobolds easily enough in confined spaces, but it's difficult to avoid them spilling round the edges of a combat to get at their preferred target (in this case Shagrat), while archer types always had him as a preferred target. Even when the combat situation looked stable temporarily, things like morale failure, horror, confusion and death of spirits or enemies could easily upset placement and lead to the need to retreat. In Shagrat's very first battle he was forced to retreat all the way back to the mine entrance before an attempted stand held for quite a while.
Even then though, he eventually had to run outside and rest before coming back to clean up.
Against smaller groups, Shagrat's charms and nymph domination, confusion and hold were very effective at managing battles, with spirits able to mop up any surviving stragglers. It took a while, but Shagrat ground through most of the second level without too much trouble. The shaman and chieftain were both confused from a distance and it looked like that combat would be relatively easy when first the shaman and then the chieftain was held. However, a few seconds later I woke up to the fact that the chieftain was still shooting at Shagrat and he was about to die. Somehow, he managed to stagger back a few steps to get out of sight (while nymphs prevented the chieftain from following) and successfully cast slow poison on himself.
In fact, looking at my screenshots of that encounter, I was even luckier than I'd realized - Shagrat only surviving that long thanks to an unordered nymph cure spell just before I became aware of the danger .
I wondered if perhaps the chieftain was intended to be immune to hold, but that only the immunity to effect had been coded and not the immunity to icon. However, after retreating to rest and return I was able to successfully hold the chieftain, so it was a different sort of bug. It seemed appropriate to end that combat by closing with the shaman to fill him full of poison.
Inside Mulahey's cave, the cleric accepted Shagrat's line that he was from Tazok and was duly dominated by nymphs.
His unarmed attack on a few kobolds wasn't going well for him when his morale failed and he tried to run. Shagrat tried to get his XP using Writhing Fog and Spike Stones, but a confused kobold kept up the attack and got the fatal blow in.
Outside the mine, Shagrat briefly looked for the amazons before remembering that they would be elsewhere. Back at Nashkel he also belatedly realized he'd dumped Joseph's ring due to inventory crowding - oh well, the XP cap will mean that makes no difference anyway. Nimbul showed off his deadly chromatic orb sequencer, but Shagrat had prudently retreated as soon as he'd spotted Nimbul and killing one of four nymphs didn't prevent Nimbul from being confused (and subsequently held).
Before going to Beregost, Bentan was killed for his PfM scroll. That reduced reputation to 10 and a bit of thieving in town took another one off to set up getting horror as a Bhaal power. While in Beregost some spiders were fed to spirits, before Tranzig suffered the same sort of tactics as Nimbul.
On the way to the FAI to pick up the pantaloons, Molkar's merry men tried an ambush - but Shagrat was able to run away before any spells aimed at him were completed. He deliberately then kept travelling until the amazons could try their luck - with the same result.
Next up will be the Bandit Camp - which is likely to be another grinding experience .
Comments
@Grond0, my link was for the Item Upgrades readme, which had the line that @Blackraven quoted. Installing mods and digging around in game files isn't something I'm good at (I mentioned on my very first post that I'd only just got mods working). I think I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.
That's certainly not what I'd like you to do.
Some questions for those who still occasionally play this challenge (@AvidGamerFan, @Grond0, @Harpagornis, anyone else?):
- If I were to try my hand at this challenge again, what is the consensus on the most suitable classes/kits for the current version of LoB, i.e. with the massive AC bonus for enemies?
- Does the challenge currently presume the saving throws fix to be installed?
- Which class or kit could be played most similarly to a non-LoB solo run? I'm asking this because I'd like it if I didn't have to depend much on very exploity tactics.
I'd probably try a class that hasn't been taken through the saga yet. Last night I was thinking of rolling a Cleric/Ranger for a nice combo of stealth, physical power and some spell-casting. Their weapon restrictions are a downside though: no vorpal weapons such as the Wave, Axe of Unyielding, and Ravager, no Unholy Reaver, no dispel-on-hit weapons... Any ideas?
I don't think so. I've had it installed for a long time, but I've just updated my SCS installation from v32 to v33 and haven't added the fix. That was partly with a view to potentially trying out @Harpagornis tactic with a scroll of Ailment on Belhifet. That tactic would still be possible with the fix, but would become a long shot rather than a pretty decent prospect. Cleric/Ranger sounds good. Cleric summons are very well suited to this challenge and clerical buffs can make fighting prospects a bit more reasonable. With the help of Champion's Strength scrolls and racial enemy you would be able to beat Belhifet down in straight melee in a way few other classes could manage.
I dont think the LoB saving throw fix is a must have even though i installed it again one hour ago. The Cursed Scroll tactic might only work for Clerics then as Big B´s save vs death is -3. Without the fix this method works fine.
Oh, i wont update the Hall of Fame with regard to post all version numbers of all characters @AvidGamerFan but i might add actual runs or completed runs that i have missed in the past... ;o)
Druids and shamans would still have a chance even with the fix. With both doom and curse active there would be a 5% chance per attempt of beating his saving throw, though beating MR as well would reduce that to 4% per scroll - always assuming of course that an initial MR spell works and you are able to complete both doom and curse and get them past his remaining MR ...
Sounds like the kind of odds that you'd happily take! Will we see a @Grond0 run Druid or Shaman join the challenge?
Before you brought this up the Avenger had come to my mind, simply because without the saves fix, Chromatic Orb has proven to be really good even in BG2. In a LoB party run, Aerie and Jan have used it for insta-killing golems (after lowering their resistances) for example. Still, the odds of slaying Belhifet, whose save vs spells is 8 after Curse and Doom, with a Chromatic Orb are very poor for an Avenger, 8% if you can land all the precursory spells I think.
Anyway, I've rolled my Cleric/Ranger, Erelyn:
I quickly got a great (manual) roll: 97 attribute points and 18/00 STR! Her starting profs are ** hammers and ** slings. I noticed that at level 1 she can only cast Cleric spells, so no Druid spells. I thought this was a bug, and that Cleric/Rangers were supposed to get access to level 1-3 Druid spells as soon as their Cleric part has the experience level to cast spells from said levels. However when I gave her 161k XP with EEKeeper, and leveled her up, Entangle and Sunscorch were added to her level 1 spells. I assume this is the work of CDTweaks' IWD2 spell progression table for Rangers and Paladins, pursuant to which Rangers get their first spell at experience level 7. Note that she doesn't get extra casts per day from her Ranger levels. I don't think I mind doing without the druid spells initially, so I'll just leave my install the way it is.
Erelyn has just left Candlekeep, where she avoided Shank and Carbos and the rats. I intend to post short, frequent updates instead of long walls of text covering big parts of the game as I often do, so I hope to be back soon with a first update.
Edit: I decided not to install the saves fix. First of all I'll mostly be using buffs and summons rather than save or else spells, so it won't make a big difference. Second, I also like to play using more casual, non-LoB settings and installing/uninstalling the fix every time I switch between settings is a bit of a hassle (and something I'm likely to forget at times).
Warriors suffer in the early game, no denying that, but BG items are so good that you can largely avoid direct combat. Once BG2 arrives, every class has their fair share of overpowered options, so it becomes something of a personal preference. Without wanting to spoil too much, I'd personally say that thieves (but not bards) have it roughest, followed by divine casters (druids and clerics), with warriors steadily improving as the saga goes on and arcane casters faring the best throughout. That said, multi-classing makes thieves and divine casters much more viable and it's always better to go with a character you enjoy.
Not necessarily. I personally haven't got it installed (don't want the effect spilling over into non-LoB games), but I try to ensure that Angelo's adventures don't rely on a failed save occurring at a particular point. For instance, whenever Feeblemind has been used, the monster hasn't turned hostile if it made its save, so the improved saves would only lengthen the time I spent casting it. If the improved save would neuter an approach (i.e. the monster would always resist with improved save, but might succumb without), I'd think twice before using it, although I don't think that I've encountered this yet. Given that I'm exploiting other gameplay holes that are likely unintended (e.g. wouldn't Firkraag turn hostile if the PC unsuccessfully cast Feeblemind?), it would seem hypocritical if I got hung up that the saving throw penalty wasn't implemented properly?
Everyone has their own definition of exploitative tactics, and it's individual preference as to where the line is drawn. It's also difficult to answer the question because, in some ways, exploits win out. I would imagine that the most 'exploit-free' run might come from warriors, because they have the least access to spells or other sneaky stuff... but will that not force you to exploit the limited items you can use even harder? Personally, I would advise not to start a run with pre-conceived notions of what is and isn't acceptable, as I found my own preferences changing with time. For instance, I've now accepted that Level 1-Martyr's 'abuse' is actually a clever use of the game's mechanics (its job is to prevent level 1 characters dying in 1 hit, and you're applying that to an unexpected situation).
Excellent idea! A ranger/cleric has always seemed more appealing than a fighter/cleric, so go for it! I think the consensus is that they shouldn't get access to higher level druid spells, but the lower level ones can be surprisingly useful in LoB. Their downside, as you say, would be lack of weapon versatility. I imagine you'd be dual-wielding some combination of Defender of Easthaven, Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyr most of the time, but they have neither speed weapons nor the Darkfire bow (for Improved Haste) available, which further limits their deadliness. Also, be careful with the final battle: as @monico showed, if Magic Resistance-Critical Strike-Harm doesn't work, it can descend into a slugfest.
Well-argued (and I had no idea about Feeblemind not angering neutral characters!).
I'll try this. I still can't see myself kill innocents like Dushai and Algernon, although I'm willing to charm Algernon with Lord Foreshadow's ring or a Mental Domination spell and try to get him killed by Karlat, Silke or Tranzig.
I think my Cleric/Ranger eventually gets access to level 4 Druid spells as well with my CDTweaks IWD2 ranger/paladin spell progression table, if only upon reaching Ranger level 15. That's what the IWD2 manual suggests at least. But I don't think that's such a big deal, as the real game changers are the level 5-6-7 spells (Ironskins, Insect Plague, Fire Elemental, Nature's Beauty).
As for the lack of versatility, I could allow a few Item Upgrades (maybe one of those clubs) although I understand that it wouldn't be in keeping with the nature of this challenge to include a lot of mod items. In any event I'll have the Sleeper (Any human or demihuman, excluding elves, hit by the Sleeper must save vs. Poison with a +4 bonus or fall asleep for 3 rounds) and Everard's Morningstar (50% chance per hit of making targeted spellcaster lose one spell from memory) to play with, FoA's Slow effect is really good, and so is the upgraded Staff of the Ram's on-hit effect.
For me, a druid's biggest strength is the combination of their spell list with their rapid progression. It's the fact that they can reach level 6 spells near enough straight out the blocks in SoD which gives them their invulnerable summon and Belhifet nuke, and the massive upgrade in spells at level 15 makes dual-classing at (or just after) that point practically irresistible. It's little surprise that relatively good progress has been made in poverty runs with druids since they have such an early power spike. They pay for it later, though, so I'm not surprised to see these poverty runs peter out past early SoA.
You managed to get your poverty Avenger all the way to Amkethran?! Wow. Colour me seriously impressed... as far as I was aware, the run had stalled after Belhifet! Still, when I ranked divine casters below warriors, I was thinking about this sort of late-game situation. I would have expected druids to tail off somewhat once their summons lost their lustre, but it seems I underestimated them by predicting this would happen much earlier than it did.
Shagrat, LoB half-orc shaman (update 1)
In response to @Blackraven, I thought I'd pick up this character again - which was generated as one of my early attempts at the challenge. I think my original efforts with it were probably just using my standard restrictions. Even though that seemed pretty tough going at the time, I've had quite a bit more experience with shamans since then and decided this run should be with the Bane of the Wizard Slayer. It probably won't get too far, but on the upside I've still not reinstalled the LoB save fix - so, if by some freak of chance he got as far as Belhifet, he would potentially have a decent chance using a Scroll of Ailment in the same way as a cleric or druid.
I suffered one quick death when not realizing that Imoen would fight back with my updated installation. Starting again, she (and Xzar & Montaron) died quickly. The next fight on the agenda was Drizzt. He didn't exactly die quickly - but he did die to boost Shagrat to level 4.
With most equipment for this challenge not allowed, Shagrat felt able to buy the Dagger of Venom early (at a higher price than usual) before going to the basilisk area. Along with Hentold's dagger, that allowed him to help Korax finish off paralyzed basilisks fairly quickly. The southern group of basilisks took Shagrat to level 5. The separated basilisks to the north also went down quickly, but Korax was slowed and struggled to paralyze Mutamin. I thought that would mean he would go hostile before he could finish off the basilisks, but surprisingly he stuck around just long enough for that - giving Shagrat his 6th level as a result.
Despite making no progress against Kirian, that was a pretty successful visit to the basilisk area to complete the first stage of Shagrat's development.
Shaman L6, 50 HPs, 12 kills
Previous updates
With spirits now being substantially more powerful, they did most of the work against battle horrors. Those have a pretty good chance of working through spirits before they can be refreshed in non-LoB, but the greater emphasis on defense in LoB sharply reduces that chance. While the battles were long (with the spirits needing a critical to hit), Shagrat only had to move and re-start dancing once while finishing off the 2 on the path. In SCS the skeletons on the wall all follow the battle horror to the end, so spirits acted there as arrow sponges before Writhing Fogs and Spike Growths cut the battle horror down.
With the exterior cleared, Shagrat went inside and picked up a bit more easy XP by passing some 'nymph' hair onto Riggilo. That left him just short of level 7, so I decided to kill the ghast blocking the route onto the roof. My memory had been that so long as you don't let it get closer to the others, it's possible to tackle that one alone. Unfortunately either my memory was wrong or the new setup has slightly changed things, as the ambush by spirits looked perfect - but the others started pouring out shortly afterwards. I was a bit slow and didn't start running as soon as the first new one was sighted and was quickly blocked off from the stairs. The ghasts' bumping together makes it hard to determine where they will move to and I soon found all other routes blocked - except the one through the hold trap. That duly did the hard work for the ghasts ...
Agreed. Some of the feats that players like @Harpagornis, @semiticgoddess, and @histamiini have accomplished are truly outstanding!
@Grond0 I was going to say good to see Shagrat back in action, but alas...
Erelyn, CG Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger (1)
Erelyn looked at the specific challenges on page 1 of this thread and considered the Adventurer challenge until she realized she'd already broken the rules, having bought some Stone to Flesh scrolls to depetrify Tamah and Corianna. I'm sure it's for the better because I haven't played the solo challenge in three years or so.
She's made a cautious start, one that I've used before in solo LoB play, consisting of collecting XP that doesn't require you to kill any creatures. She made it to about 16k XP. Copy/pasted and slightly edited from another post in the "Maybe this time" thread:
– Firebead 300 XP
– Marl 900 XP
– Alanna’s neighbor (BGQE) 500 XP
– Family heirloom (BGQE) 500 XP
– Coquetle 250 XP
– Wounded hobgoblin in Drizzt area 200 XP (picking up Drizzt's gear as well)
– Landrin 600 XP (Sanctuary for the boots and wine, Spider has to wait)
– Brun 1500 XP (using Sanctuary to loot the ankheg hoard)
– Tenya 2500 XP
– Frightened widow (BGQE) 300 XP
– Corianna (BGQE) 100 XP
– Drunk near Beregost temple (BGQE) 100 XP
– Tamah 300 XP
– Noober 400 XP
– Albert & Rufie 1000 XP
– Drienne 200 XP
– Neville 100 XP (telling him to hand over his possessions)
– Brage 1000 XP
– Noober and Joseph’s wife (BGQE) 150 XP
– Arcand the mad 300 XP
– Kylee’s dagger 200 XP
- Joseph's ring 800 XP
- Revenant's dagger 900 XP
– Samuel 500 XP
- Ulcsaster's tome 1000 XP
- Corrupted iron ore for Faerom Tuiruim (BG1 UB) 750 XP
Mildly interesting was Erelyn's meeting with Tenya. She could have easily fallen there. First of all, Tenya's Spiritual Hammer somehow struck twice in one hit while Erelyn was trying to cast a Magical Stone at the young priestess. I hadn't leveled Erelyn up yet, and she escaped with a single HP and Sanctuary.
There were two bandit ambushes during her early travels, and she was critically hit once in each ambush. But she already had 39 HPs from being level 3/3 during the first ambush, so the double damage from disabling the No difficulty-based damage changes was thankfully tolerable. You guys do play with double damage enalbled yes? With the ankheg armor, a ring of protection +1, and a large shield, the bandits had difficulty hitting her.
In Beregost Erelyn got her hands dirty for the first time. She "invited" Algernon for a drink in the Red Sheaf, but an aggressive dwarf there slew the poor guy.
Erelyn made another friend at Firewine Bridge, a priest of Ilmater named Bentan, but when they ran into Meilum, the good priest took on more suffering than he could handle. Again, an out-of-sight Hold Person (and two hammers) ensured that the aggressor would harm no one else.
Bassilus, whose prebuffs and aerial servant were triggered and waited out,
Erelyn then traveled to Mutamin's garden, where she managed to lure a not yet recruited Korax to the south of the map, my preferred starting place for basilisk hunting. The pair got through the first eight without difficulty, with Erelyn starting out with her sling and moving in, dual-wielding, as soon as each basilisk was paralyzed. She had reached level 5 as a Cleric when the first greater basilisk fell, so she could have lost Korax at that point, and rely on skeletons, but Korax managed to crit and paralyze Mutamin after having been subjected to a harmless Hold Person and a Melf's Acid Arrow. I forced the ghoul to focus on the gnome even though it was more eager to attack the nearby greater basilisk.
She's currently level 5/5, at close to 46k XP. Two skeletal summons now available should help her further increase her experience.
Here is the XP log so far:
Candlekeep – 300
Tenya and Sonner – 2535
Marl – 900
Algernon - 15
Hobgoblin – 200
Drizzt – 12000
Shoal – 5000
Mad Arcand - 300
Brage – 1000
Noober - 400
Rufie – 1000
Vitiare – 125
Revenant – 900
Mutamins Garden – 25875
Bentan – 175
Meilum – 1200
Durlag Basiliks – 22400
Kirinhale – 4000
Battle Horrors – 8000
Ogre – 270
Tarnesh – 120
Sirens – 18000
Flesh Golems – 6000
After this Su´rakka reached level 9 and will start the main quest line soon. But not all went smooth: I managed to get affected by both Horrors of Tarnesh thanks to misclicking but it looked his script was broken cause he did not move trying to bash Su´rakka into the ground. Against the Battle Horrors at Durlags Tower – which took some time as she needed at least a 19 to hit them – she was nearly killed after going afk for a minute while forgetting to hit pause. Stealth broke and she was already down to 18 HP before i could act again. Holy cow, it looks like i should focus more on the game. As i am trying not to abuse the infinite stealth trick too heavily the sirens forced her to drink six antidots making the encounter at least a bit of a bit fight while the Greenstone Amulet blocked all charm attempts. The 19 strength right from the start really shines... at least for the moment! *G*
Yes! Another heroic adventurer in the challenge! A single-class Shadowdancer seems ill-suited for the ToB part of the saga to me, but you know a lot better what you're doing than me. I was thinking that without the saves fix, Assassin could regain some of their former glory in the LoB challenge.
You've made good progress, dealing some enemies that I'm reluctant to take on, such as flesh golems, and especially Kirinhale. I've been trying with three skeletons but she just drains their CON and DEX. Erelyn uses the Greenstone amulet for charm protection but she too has seen her health deteriorate rapidly even from a distance. She's going to try her luck elsewhere. How do you tackle her?
Flesh Golems for instance were easy prey for her as should could stealth all day long without the slow ones being able to touch her.
Mulahey got stabbed to death after she killed her guards one after another landing even a mighty 117 damage backstab. Cool stuff.
Tranzig got mauled by Karlat who was stabbed by Su´rakka shortly after while the Bandit Camp was an quick in and out using Shadow Step. The poor ones did not even notice what happened.
Don't despair
Shagrat, LoB half-orc shaman (update 1)
Starting again, Shagrat dealt with some early sources of big XP. Drizzt was beaten unconscious by a gnoll while I did a few hours work. Shagrat then took a risk by travelling quite extensively while raising reputation to 20, but was fortunate not to have any nasty ambushes. With the Dagger of Venom purchased he once more followed Korax round and once more successfully killed all the basilisks to get to level 6.
Before going to Durlag's Tower, this time he used spirits to soak up some spells from Tarnesh before gobbling him up - enabling him to get into the FAI and purchase Buckley's Buckler.
At Durlag's Tower, clearing the outside got Shagrat close to level 7 and I decided it would be fitting to kill a few ghasts to get revenge for the previous run - the first of those being sufficient for the level.
Heading north, the next target was ankhegs. While they hit hard, they're more predictable than ghasts and there were no problem setting up spirits to attack those. Returning the bowl to Tenya was then enough for level 8. That's important as controllable summons make using spirits easier as well as offering lots of spell options from both nymphs and Shagrat to speed up fights.
Shaman L8, 63 HPs, 24 kills
Erelyn, CG Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger (2)
Erelyn's positive experiences with Mutamin's basilisks prompted her to seek out more of the lizards at Durlag's Tower. Her animated skeletons did all the work for her. She picked up a tome of understanding, then tried her luck against the two battle horrors on the path to the tower. Her skeletons lured the first one to the north, so that they didn't have to deal with both monsters at the same time. The undead couldn't harm them, and neither could Erelyn really, with her weapons that is. She needed crits or at least very high rolls and she got none, while the battle horrors injured her with ease. She Doomed the battle horrors and spent no less than sixteen charges from her wand of the heavens on the two of them.
As mentioned in a previous post, Erelyn also attempted to murder Kirinhale, but she stood no chance against the succubus due the creature's DEX and CON drains. Her skeletons were equally powerless, so the fiend will either live or fall later.
Erelyn got the girdle of piercing from the rogue ogre, and visited the High Hedge for the first time, where she slew two flesh golems with sling bullets +2 from Ulgoth's Beard and from Erdane. The golems have poor AC. Erelyn even hit them rolling a 10, with Meilum's gauntlets as her only Thac0 booster.
Next, she went after Shoal and Droth on the northern coast, where she would resort to unconventional tactics for the first time.
First, three skeletons were summoned. Then she approached Shoal under Sanctuary. The nereid addressed Erelyn, kissed her and dropped the Cleric/Ranger unconscious with 1 HP. Her Sanctuary was still in effect though, so she could retreat and heal up. In the meantime the skeletons were making short work of Shoal. So Erelyn joined the battle before she'd fully healed herself, and landed a hit. It prompted Shoal to surrender.
Erelyn took her losses, cast Sanctuary and rested. Instead of Animate Dead she memorized Glyph of Warding. She placed them on the waterfront, rested away from that location so as not to have the glyphs triggered by ambushers, and repeated this several times, until she'd placed about 27 or 30. She then cast Silence at Droth from out of her enemy's sight, Doomed him, but failed to Curse him as her foe escaped the spell's AoE. She tried to Blind him with Sunscorch but he saved twice. Had he not, then Erelyn would have added Chant to further lower his saves. Chant in SCS v33 halves the priest's movement speed, so I deemed it unsafe to cast it at a non-blinded Droth. Either way, she decided to take her chances: she charmed her foe with Algernon's cloak and led him straight into her traps. Even without Curse and Chant his saves didn't save him...
Further south, Erelyn's skeletons dispatched nine sirines. She contributed with sling bullets, and she spent a potion of magic blocking and one of clarity in the process when Chant + poor positioning kept her from retreating out of sight before her foes could complete castings of Dire Charm. She also dispatched all three flesh golems in Black Alaric's cave with more +2 bullets. She triggered the hold and charm traps with a charge from the Greenstone Amulet, and she used her skeletons to lure the flesh golem in the eastern part of the cave toward the entrance so that she didn't have to trigger the Glyph of Warding trap there.
At the Nashkel Carnival she sold the Greenstone Amulet and the Wand of the Heavens and bought back a recharged wand. She didn't have enough coin to purchase the amulet back.
Character record and inventory screen:
Question: how do you get Neera's gem bag, the only gem bag if I'm not mistaken, in this challenge? I guess you have to kill her no?
It seems that the latest SCS version makes party NPC´s unkillable, which opens the path for some funny stuff as you can charm and turn them into immortal tanks!
My installation is doing funny stuff cause i stumbed into something i have never watched before. When facing Molkar and his party ten bandits joined the fun in the middle of the fight forcing Su´rakka to abuse the stealth mechanics a bit more...
This change seems to offer us interesting opportunities, for example when dealing with the Crusader waves
I think there are various different things going on. I don't think the NPC customization makes NPCs immortal, though their starting HPs are not the same as usual and it may take several hits to kill them. I think Neera is a special case though as she now gets a min HP item to ensure she doesn't get killed and lose you access to her quest. I've tried several different strategies, but have yet to find one that allows me to get the gem bag from her (without recruiting her) in my SCS installation.
In my current run I was hoping she would die from additional damage after I told her to leave (when she was at 1 HP). That's worked in other installations, but she shrugged off a LMD this time.
Previous updates
The first port of call for Shagrat's new nymphs was the seaside. One consequence of the higher LoB levels is that the nymph call lightnings are both vicious and produce multiple bolts. That helped quickly wear sirines down to size, allowing spirits to finish off the left-overs. Inside the cave, golems' poor AC allowed spirits to tear through them much quicker than against most enemies. Shagrat had taken storm shell as one of his 3rd level spells and that allowed him to tank the lightning glyph trap with confidence, though he saved anyway. I did though find the performance of the nymphs disappointing - their AI brings them back to the PC whenever there are no enemies in sight, making them much more troublesome to use as scouts, lures and decoys than expected (I seem to remember that as a feature of an earlier SCS version, which I thought had been removed, but apparently not).
A couple more golems died at High Hedge when Shagrat went to get the tome identified. With the potion case obtained, I thought it was about time to get the gem bag. I expected that Neera couldn't be killed ahead or during combat with the Red Wizards, but nymphs made that combat easy and I thought a LMD would finish Neera off as she was walking away - but she was still protected.
Shagrat went to get the charisma tome as well, but deemed it not worth using up a scroll of PfM to get the wisdom tome from Durlag's.
Next up was another trip to the coast with the aim of getting some new headgear. The initial contact with Shoal didn't go well, but nymphs helped beat Shoal up sufficiently for her to summon Ogre Droth. Shagrat retreated as Droth was teleporting in, allowing the nymphs to first use lightning on him, then confusion and finally hold monster.
That left Shagrat not too far away from another level and he went to find Bassilus. He took advantage there of the SCS tendency for enemies to break off casting if you move out of their sight and spirits eventually wore Bassilus down despite an accompanying skeleton warrior.
Shaman L9, 68 HPs, 45 kills
There's not much progress to report here but an interesting finding. There is someone capable of taking down Neera without Charname having to recruit her first: Silke. Erelyn charmed the wild mage with Algernon's Cloak before she could petition for help. The Neera I got was the 10 HP SCS NPC customisation version. She was ordered to wait right next to Silke while Erelyn summoned some skeletons and went to have a word with Garrick. The two walked back to Silke and Neera and a well-timed hit on the space bar allowed Erelyn to start a casting of Sanctuary right before Silke addressed her. Thus when combat started, Silke attacked Neera. She dealt 18 physical damage in three hits without killing her, as expected. However Silke then fired two Chromatic Orbs at Neera from a minor sequencer. As LoB turns Silke into a level 22 Bard, those Chromatic Orbs had a slay effect, and apparently that did the job.
The soft-hearted role-player in me doesn't particularly enjoy NPC deaths, but Erelyn can't help being extremely timid (7 CHA) and relying on Algernon's cloak to make friends hehe.
That makes sense. The standard minHP item only provides protection against physical damage, not death effects or stat drains.
Previous updates
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1159826/#Comment_1159826
The Nashkel Mine is a real pain for characters without invisibility or equivalent abilities. Shagrat's spirits could take on lots of standard kobolds easily enough in confined spaces, but it's difficult to avoid them spilling round the edges of a combat to get at their preferred target (in this case Shagrat), while archer types always had him as a preferred target. Even when the combat situation looked stable temporarily, things like morale failure, horror, confusion and death of spirits or enemies could easily upset placement and lead to the need to retreat. In Shagrat's very first battle he was forced to retreat all the way back to the mine entrance before an attempted stand held for quite a while.
Against smaller groups, Shagrat's charms and nymph domination, confusion and hold were very effective at managing battles, with spirits able to mop up any surviving stragglers. It took a while, but Shagrat ground through most of the second level without too much trouble. The shaman and chieftain were both confused from a distance and it looked like that combat would be relatively easy when first the shaman and then the chieftain was held. However, a few seconds later I woke up to the fact that the chieftain was still shooting at Shagrat and he was about to die. Somehow, he managed to stagger back a few steps to get out of sight (while nymphs prevented the chieftain from following) and successfully cast slow poison on himself.
I wondered if perhaps the chieftain was intended to be immune to hold, but that only the immunity to effect had been coded and not the immunity to icon. However, after retreating to rest and return I was able to successfully hold the chieftain, so it was a different sort of bug. It seemed appropriate to end that combat by closing with the shaman to fill him full of poison.
Inside Mulahey's cave, the cleric accepted Shagrat's line that he was from Tazok and was duly dominated by nymphs.
Outside the mine, Shagrat briefly looked for the amazons before remembering that they would be elsewhere. Back at Nashkel he also belatedly realized he'd dumped Joseph's ring due to inventory crowding - oh well, the XP cap will mean that makes no difference anyway. Nimbul showed off his deadly chromatic orb sequencer, but Shagrat had prudently retreated as soon as he'd spotted Nimbul and killing one of four nymphs didn't prevent Nimbul from being confused (and subsequently held).
Before going to Beregost, Bentan was killed for his PfM scroll. That reduced reputation to 10 and a bit of thieving in town took another one off to set up getting horror as a Bhaal power. While in Beregost some spiders were fed to spirits, before Tranzig suffered the same sort of tactics as Nimbul.
On the way to the FAI to pick up the pantaloons, Molkar's merry men tried an ambush - but Shagrat was able to run away before any spells aimed at him were completed. He deliberately then kept travelling until the amazons could try their luck - with the same result.
Next up will be the Bandit Camp - which is likely to be another grinding experience
Shaman L9, 68 HPs, 79 kills