Should cRPG genre be tied to isometric view?
This is just for my curiosity sake.
What is you opinion on making cRPG in over the shoulder camera or first person camera view?
For example, would you like to see someday Baldur's gate/IWD spiritual succesor in first person view like Skyrim or
3rd person view like Dragon age / Mass effect franchise?
What is your argument for or against it?
I've made this poll anonymous. Tell me if you would like poll to be public.
What is you opinion on making cRPG in over the shoulder camera or first person camera view?
For example, would you like to see someday Baldur's gate/IWD spiritual succesor in first person view like Skyrim or
3rd person view like Dragon age / Mass effect franchise?
What is your argument for or against it?
I've made this poll anonymous. Tell me if you would like poll to be public.
- Should cRPG genre be tied to isometric view?28 votes
- Always. (Not sure if serious?)17.86%
- Nay! (It is just matter of perspective.)82.14%
1
Comments
The isometric approach allows the control of a larger party. But a top-down perspective works just as well for that. Both approaches are limited when you want to work with the 3rd dimension. The main drawback of 1st and 3rd person viewpoints is they are ineffective for tactical control of more than three party members. But there is no reason why "every game" should have a party of six.
Obviously, if you wanted to make a Baldur's Gate game, you would use an isometric game engine, because that is part of what makes it Baldur's Gate. But that doesn't mean it's the only valid way to make a crpg.
Do, or do not. There is no spoon.
For party-based/tactical games -> Isometric view.
For single-character/action games -> 3rd Person View
It's not a matter of taste or opinion, for party-based tactical games, the isometric view is pretty much necessary.
Developers didn't gather one day and decided on a random view for no reason.
The isometric view serves a clear purpose and functionality.
For action or single-player games like Neverwinter Nights 1 or Skyrim or Witcher or Dark Souls, you want a closer camera because a distant camera is pointless, plus you're missing all the action... in an action game.
When Neverwinter Nights 2 was released, there was no isometric/strategy camera option and everyone complained about it.
So much so, that they added it in the later expansions.
Guess why? In NwN2 you control a full party. In NwN1 you don't.
If you make a BG successor not isometric, at least not as a real option, it would be chaos to control a party of six in combat and would frustrate most people to no end.
It isn't a matter of taste, like I said. It's a matter of practicality and gameplay.
Yes, there could be an option to zoom down if you want to but it isn't be an "OR", it should be an "AND".
Isometric view by default AND the option to zoom down if you wish.
But if you have pre-rendered backgrounds, rotating the camera would be impossible, since the terrain would be 2D animated pictures.
Other options:
1st person
Top down
Text
VR
AR
Whatever they call the side-on view used for combat in jrpgs like final fantasy
2d side scrolling
Some mixture, like Albion
I would also be inclined to differentiate between isometric 3d modeled and isometric using pre-rendered art.
On the other hand - for me personally, 3rd Person view is an abomination and I'd rather use 1st person view as in TES games. (Even though you are missing peripheral view when meelee fighting)
Also, I agree with @Fardragon, that Albion's mixture of 3 different views was very interesting and very good.
I mean, honestly, none other would dare to bring this to life
There's no really tactics involved, as you are basically one unit and you use their abilities in a turn-based environment.
In DnD, every character is an individual unit, moving independently and many spells also occupy physical space, so you need to know where to move each character so that they're not damaged as well.
That's where tactics come in place. Moving each character and getting in positions, either behind the enemy, or behind cover, or away from an AoE spell or surrounding them.
This is why an Isometric view is necessary in tactical DnD games and not like in Wizardry/Grimrock/MnM.
Even in PnP, if you implement miniatures (or equivalent), you're using an isometric view on a map (or mat) with squares to position yourself, usually.
Positioning in DnD is paramount and part of the design.
I believe this is the real reason why it has become almost of a tradition to have an Isometric view in DnD or similar, games.
It tries to mimic the PnP experience and it also works beautifully.
Using what works doesn't make it a "clone" or a "copy".
So....what do you say about games like Realms Of Arkania / Albion, where you moved in 1st person view (in dungeons in Albion) but the game dropped you into 3rd person for combat? (I liked that setup a lot. Makes you feel like you are in the game, yet the fights can be tactical).
I generally don't like 1st-Person RPGs. But Albion seems to combine pretty much everything.
Another reason I don't like 1st Person RPGs is because you can notice all the pixels or textures or models and if everything doesn't look good, it makes you go "ugh".
With a more zoomed out isometric game, you can generally fill in the blanks with descriptions or your imagination and 2D ages far better than 3D.
Not that graphics are important, but the designers can create really detailed and beautiful environments without needing high-end computers for them, plus it is cheaper generally.
And realistically speaking, I'd rather see Beamdog attempt something like Pillars of Eternity, rather than NwN1 (with all its blocky models) or the Elder Scrolls games.
That's more of a personal preference, but I really like pre-rendered isometric tactical turn-based games.
The Infinity Engine just happens to provide most of it.
Another option is a free camera that goes from 3rd person (usually better when you are moving) and barely isometric (when in a fight with several opponents) like in Vampire: The Masquerade: Redemption (and Sacrifice as well). Myth II (not an crpg but hey, actually, Divinity: Original Sin's camera is very much like it) and has a similar way of handling the camera but you change it with the the keyboard and not with the mouse, besides being more sophisticated and aimed at covering large views. The only problem with free camera vs set isometric is that 1) can't use 2d pre-rendered graphics like in BG 2) it might bother some people if camera is too hard to use comfortably (Divinity: Original Sin's is perfect: you leave it as you like and never change it by accident again, while Vampire: The Masquerade: Redemption's camera moves all the time, in Sacrifice the same thing happens but not as often since the camera is also bound to the keyboard. Age of Mythology also has isometric with free rotation (although you might have never ever used it on purpose but it's there).
However, if I am playing a cRPG as the only character (without a party) then I want 1st person view all the way. That is one reason why I like the TES games, they allow you to switch between 3rd person and 1st person, and I always choose 1st person.
They sell it on GoG. If you can stomach graphics of old games, try it out. True. Hell YES!