[SPOILERS] Imoen Plothole?
Kirkor
Member Posts: 700
OK, so when CHARNAME dies, he can't be resurrected - the game end immediately. I always thought, that it's because we are bhaalspawn and our essence goes right to the Bhaal as soon as we die. So that is why we can't be resurrected.
BUT!
Imoen. She is supposedly a bhaalspawn and we can ressurect her million times.
Why Sarevok was hunting CHARNAME, but not Imoen?
Why Imoen is actualy ignored in the Bhaalspawn wars?
In the end of ToB she could become a god... or she should die, in order to give her essence to CHARNAME to make him a god... or she should give up her essence, as CHARNAME could do. But actualy she didn't do anything.
BUT!
Imoen. She is supposedly a bhaalspawn and we can ressurect her million times.
Why Sarevok was hunting CHARNAME, but not Imoen?
Why Imoen is actualy ignored in the Bhaalspawn wars?
In the end of ToB she could become a god... or she should die, in order to give her essence to CHARNAME to make him a god... or she should give up her essence, as CHARNAME could do. But actualy she didn't do anything.
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Also, suspension of disbelief.
Imoen: What ... what was it like to die, Sarevok? Seeing as you’ve been through the experience repeatedly I can’t help but wonder if you’ve developed some perspective on it.
Sarevok: Do you intend for me to believe that a weakling such as yourself has never needed to be revived by a priest? Bah! I imagine this group has obtained a discount at the temple of Helm for you, dear sister.
Imoen: Yeah, but that’s different. That’s just some blackness and then like, ‘oops, here you go!’ I don’t think that I’ve ever been really, really dead like you have.
Sarevok: Keep prodding me and that could quickly change.
Imoen: Oh, you don’t fool me. I’m an archmage after all ... and you’re nothing but bluster. Tell me what I want to know!
Sarevok: The knowledge would do you no good, now, dear sister. And by the time you need it, it will be too late. Now leave me be ... your constant chirruping is giving me a headache.
In ToB, Imoen does give up her essence. If she is in your party when Mellisan is defeated, Solar will give Imoen that option.
There's as similar problem with Viekang, that Bhaalspawn you meet several times throughout the game and that teleports away whenever he's scared. There's an option in ToB to help him get his teleport ability back. If successful, he then safely teleports out of Saradush. If every Bhaalspawn's essence needs to be included, which is implied when Solar gives Imoen the chance to give up her essence, then surely Viekang's essence would be needed too. Since, depending on the PC's actions, Viekang may still be alive, this would also seem to prevent Bhaal's essence from being either locked away in Mount Celestial or the PC becoming a god.
As much as I like Imoen, I think it would have been better, story wise, if she had died. There is too much duplication between Imoen and Nalia, no story or gameplay reason to have both, and lots of reasons to prefer Imoen over Nalia. It's the Han Solo/Lando Calrissian problem all over again: a character is given a reprieve after their replacement has already started work, resulting in much awkwardness.
/thread
That would be quite cheap explanation :P
Wow, elminster's theory of mindflayers is actualy pretty cool... That would make quite depressing story.
If a follower dies, he or she is revived, no problem there. But if the PC dies, the one that gives the order, the poor party members will be like "OMG, I Can't drink a glass of water without PC!" *dies*
While followers get revived, the PC has a better remedy - RELOAD
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4030/the-great-shadows-of-amn-conspiracy/p1
I always looked at the game as when protagonist dies he loses the essense. Yes he can be revived but he no longer has divine piece of himself inside, only the mortal portion (and on that way game ends). So when we revive Imoen she keeps her life but not her essense, that is how I always looked at things.
As for the end, I actually had her in the final combat prior to the final choice and Solar asks her what does she want to do with her divine portion and she responds that she gives it away, that she just wants to be mortal.
So like I said, all of it makes sense to me, except the fact that she still has divine essense to ressurect Sarevok or be stolen by Bodhi if she died at some point. Except for that I really don't see a plothole here.
But at least they tried to cover it with "lawl she never died, just got incapacitated." Better than nothing.
I always thought that being impossible to revive the protagonist (ending the game instead) had less to do with the story and more with game mechanics. I suppose you could have the rest of your party take your character to a temple, or have a priest NPC cast a spell, but until then, the game is sort of broken, as pretty much every plotline depends on the PC being alive.
Not to mention the hassle of programming dialog content that recognizes your PC as dead. And how to reform your party in the meantime? What happens if everyone's booted? And that considering there even is a way to quickly resurrect him. What if your party has no cash and no high level Cleric?
I know it would probably be too complicated for the developers to add, but it could be an interesting addition if the party had some time limit on when they needed to resurrect the PC before the game ended. Maybe they could have a day or two and after that the body would either be too far decomposed to resurrect or would lose Bhaal's essence. This would be similar to the situation in the Heroes games, where you're supposed to control a city at all times, but if you lose your last city but still have units somewhere, you have 7 game days to capture a new one or lose the game.
Another possibility is that this time limit could be extended or modified in some way if someone else with Bhaal's essence was in your party at the time, such as Imoen or the baby you can have with Aerie. Your PC could get the Bhaal essence returned, in a manner of speaking, by taking the essence from either Imoen or the baby. Or maybe your party could steal it by killing another Bhaalspawn, and use that when they resurrect you.
If the PC dies and you run into Brage does Xzar decide to harvest his organs? Does Jaheira decide to run the party now? Do the assassins not show up if you are already dead?
@Kilivitz hit this issue very well in his last post.
Edit: new idea this was not in game...
The thing about her not losing her essence when she dies seems like a plothole, though.
If Imoen was meant to die, then Nalia is a useless replacement, only 80 detect traps and 60 open locks isnt enough for a thief in BG2.
But seriously, instead of poking greater holes, perhaps we can try and patch it together ourselves with some artistic license.
Perhaps someone could mod Imoen so that when she dies, it's also game over, in exactly the same way as when the PC dies. She's quite a hardy Thief, although I do distinctly recall her 'I feel so cold...' lines a lot back when I used to recruit her (I never do these days). Ugh ... really drawing a blank here.
I'd love to see an Imoen dying in Spellhold mod though.
I believe the devs are adding a Thief NPC to BG2:EE
I would have really liked an evil Assasin NPC in BG2, you already have Imoen for good parties and Yoshimo and Jan are neutral. Though they will get along fine with an evil party, theres no evil rogue option. On the other hand BG1 was full of more rogue NPCs than you could ever need.
Theres plenty of mages, fighters and healers in BG2, and only one proper thief.