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I'm debating a Gnoll or Flind playthrough

Trying to decide between these, though I'll need to use EEK to do up the character properly. Looked up the racial adjustments and it appears to be +1 STR, -1 Int, -1 Cha for Gnolls, and while the same for Flinds, except for no Int penalty. Has anyone ever actually done this? I should likely lower the starting reputation to something just below the threshold of me being attacked on sight, leaving a bit of room to take a hit after I pick up Vi (who I usually grab after making it to the Friendly Arm Inn.

Animation wise, I think my weapon choices are limited to halberds and greatswords, which definitely limits me, at least in terms of immersion.
CrevsDaakThacoBellOrlonKronsteenlolienZaghoul
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Comments

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,058
    I think the threshold is 8, anything lower will cause you to be attacked on every civilised place in the Realms.

    Also, you might like to patch racetext.2da as well, so the race properly shows up as Gnoll in the Record Screen. If you want, I can put together a mod to do this.

    Sounds like a fun playthrough! Also, you can mod other weapons to have the animations of a greatsword/halberd so you can use other weapons as well.
    JuliusBorisovOrlonKronsteen
  • Papa_LouPapa_Lou Member Posts: 264
    This is an interesting idea! Looking forward to seeing how it goes.
    JuliusBorisov
  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 2,421
    CrevsDaak said:

    I think the threshold is 8, anything lower will cause you to be attacked on every civilised place in the Realms.

    If you want to avoid fist mercenaries hunting you all the time, the threshold is 3.

    Also, maybe you should check the standard alignment for gnolls/flints. I dunno myself, but i figure they are mostly evil?

    JuliusBorisov
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 663
    Clubs would be acceptable for Flinds. They have their own ninjachucks after all.
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    I went with a Gnoll, and halberd. Her name is Nix, and a fighter. I went with Neutral alignment. On one hand, she was raised by Gorion and the rest who brought her up in a good enviroment, while on the other, she struggles with a somewhat bestial nature, and the Bhaal taint, which bring her back to neutral. The prejudice she routinely encounters doesn't help. (to simulate this until I reach a 16 reputation, she won't be staying in any inns)

    Nix

    Party selection was tricky. Jaheira and Khalid tried to keep their promise to Gorion, but there were too many conflicts between two dominant personalities with Nix and Jaheira constantly clashing. They finally agreed to go their own way after Nashkel, but tragically died defending Nix against two assassins (Tristan and Isolde) south of Beregost.

    In the end, this is who I ended up with:

    Shar-Teel

    Viconia

    Branwen

    Imoen

    Alora

    It's a disparate group, but one I think could work together, even with two evil members. Right now Nix is third level, after a bit of adventuring around the area, and we're getting ready to hit the Nashkel Mine. I waited until I'd the chance to gain some levels, since there is a nasty Duergar hit squad waiting in those mines. The Gnoll fortress was a very, very nasty fight, but at least I got a +2 Halberd out of it.







    CrevsDaak
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    edited February 2
    Funny thing with Nix is, Lord Foreshadow gave her a Ring of Human Influence, so she has a Charisma of 18 right now!
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 663
    Your game appears heavily modded. That ring does not even exist in bg1ee.

    Isn't it a little pointless to report a playthrough with cheated items?
    Gallowglass
  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 1,981
    That's an item from the BG1 NPC Project.
    CrevsDaak
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    The game is heavily modded, but I don't consider a modded game cheating, especially given the number of times I've died. Dark Horizons, for example has nice items, but those early assassins are brutal, especially in this playthough where I only have two fighters. The Ring of Human Influence is nice, and I'm wearing it mostly for RP purposes, since it doesn't do anything for me in combat. I actually use it as a bit of a handicap, as it's taking a spot something more relevant might occupy. Still for her character in particular, I do think it would be a wise thing to keep wearing, so it'll stay.

    On an unrelated note, I have noticed that Nix does tend to fall behind the rest of the party when moving, not because her rate is nerfed, but because of the hinky Gnoll walking animations.
    ThacoBellJuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    edited February 2
    The Gnoll fortress fight was especially bad. Ignoring the several times I died, mostly to Gnoll Clan Leaders (with +2 halberds, I might add) for the final assault I had a good plan....or so it seemed. I stationed Bran and Shar-Teel at the base of the steps leading up to the area where Dyna was being held prisoner, with Vi, Alora, and Immy providing ranged missile support off the side, while I'd send Nix up to lure out the Gnolls to the steps where they'd be bottlenecked and ranged could decimate the back ranks, while any that did make it past Nix would be engaged by Branwen and Shar-Teel.

    This worked for time, but then from an area I'd just cleared on the way up, another mob of Gnolls respawned, putting them right behind us, and they went right for the ranged characters, who retreated, but into an area I forgot to clear first, which meant I was now surrounded on three sides, since Nix had just gotten drawn out another mob. Neither Vi, nor Bran had Hold Person at this point, and if my support had stayed put, they'd have been cut to ribbons. It looked like another reload (which would make my fifth in that area-two of which had been caused by DH assassins north of the bridge), but desperate to avoid that, I sent Bran and Teel to each hold off a mob singlehandedly, hopefully distracting them enough for ranged to reform, and begin doing their thing. Nix was in the best spot, since her problems could be dealt with one at a time, but the other pair got completely surrounded, and were slowly getting cut to ribbons. It took every healing potion left and all of Bran's Cure Light Wounds spells to even keep alive at that point.

    Still, it worked. The gnolls stopped chasing Vi, Immy, and Alora, who rallied, and then used concentrated missile fire to first relieve Bran, who switched to her sling, and wipe out those facing Teel. Meanwhile Nix had worked her way through most of those who were left facing her. The rest of the battle went the way of the first part, with Bran joining the ranged contingent, since she was too far down on HP to melee anymore.

    The final climax was Nix challenging the remaining Clan Leader to single combat, after dispatching his last pair of guards. That was a nasty fight, where Nix got torn a new one, but managed to land a lucky crit, which ultimately decided the affair.

    Looking up the stats those things have:

    STR: 20
    INT: 9
    WIS: 9
    CON: 18
    DEX: 18
    CHA: 9

    AC: -2
    HP: 52
    # Attacks: 3/rd
    THAC0: 8 (modifed to 6 for the +2 Halberd)

    This explains why I died three times to that one on at the top of the stairs leading to the fortress. Suffice to say if I'd known they were that tough, I'd never have tried to fight that final one in individual combat in the last engagement. (I actually just now looked up these stats in EEK!)
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    The battle was considerably worsened by Alora having no useful spells in her book, since she didn't start with one, so only had whatever she'd been able to scavenge from drops. In hindsight, I did have a Confusion scroll I could have used, but would have probably been cut down before getting to read it off, especially as Confused enemies will still often attack, especially if they happened to be surrounding you at the time...

    What she did have was that +3 throwing dagger I took from Isolde's corpse, after she killed Khalid and Jaheira with it. Immy had a +1 Shortbow, and Viconia a +2 sling and some +2 bullets, so very strong, so long as nothing actually closed with them.
  • Papa_LouPapa_Lou Member Posts: 264
    edited February 3

    Your game appears heavily modded. That ring does not even exist in bg1ee.

    Isn't it a little pointless to report a playthrough with cheated items?

    I wouldn't call them "cheated" items. Items brought in using the console commands, I'd consider cheating, but using mods is far from cheating. Especially mods as fair and balanced as the BG1 NPC Project.
    I also wouldn't consider this pointless, either. This is a BG forum, and the topic is about a BG playthrough.

    As for the playthough, though, it sounds like you're having a fun run so far!
    Post edited by Papa_Lou on
    ThacoBellJuliusBorisovArctodus
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    There is a big difference between cheating, adding something via console or EEK, and having to pry said item out of the cold, dead hands of the bastards who were just using it on you! The ring was a fun item, but not really all that terribly useful in combat, so I'm not sweating that little freebie. DH does have some pretty nasty stuff, but as with Isolde's dagger, and the +2 Halberds, the most powerful ones are going to be first used against you, or at worst be bought for a lot of gold that you made selling other unpleasant things the bad guys previously owned that you either couldn't use, or didn't need.

  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    edited February 4
    Well, the clearing of the mines didn't go down as anticipated. With most of the party carrying missile weapons, the kobolds were swept aside with minimal effort, but I got sloppy with the comparative ease, and managed to waltz right in the middle of that Duergar hit squad of two Fighters, two Clerics, and one Thief, or maybe Tighter-Thief. To make matters worse, the party was out of formation, with Shar-Teel, Viconia, and Alora being in the front, with Nix, Branwen, and Immy behind them.

    I basically strode right in among them, which had several results, both good and bad. On the bad side, Alora took a poisoned crossbow bolt, and then was chunked moments later by the badass leading the bunch, after he saved from Viconia's Hold Person spell. Everyone else piled onto Shar-Teel like a band of skinheads at a bar mitzva, with the result she was poisoned and lost nearly all her HP right then and there.

    The good thing about this scenario, however, was while Teel was taking it for the team, everyone was clustered right around her, so the next round Vi and Bran were able to dump more Hold Person spells which worked this time, catching nearly everyone in their radius, including the badass in the glowing golden plate armor. The thief and one fighter managed to avoid getting held, but another casting next round took care of that, and everyone was finished off with ease. Because I did more or less stroll right in the middle of the group, the Duergar clerics opted to melee instead of cast, which probably would have turned the tide in their favor, so I was grateful that didn't occur, though it cost me my mage.

    The rest of the mines were easily cleared, especially with the loot taken from from those guys, and that gold armor looked good on Nix. Being down a mage, however, left a gap in the party, and no convenient replacement was onhand, at least not that I actually wanted in the party, so to I needed to fill in the gap while I waited for Imoen to get to 5th, before dual classing her. I decided on a bard, Morwen, found at the Jovial Juggler.



    Morwen was a good choice, as she was pretty well equipped with custom items, and set up as an archer, making her a stronger version of Imoen, and an excellent addition to the party with her longbow, able to take over the role of party archer after Imoen dual classed to mage. Most of the rest of the game that followed was just mopping up bandits from unexplored areas, and trying to get Immy leveled up as quickly as possible.

    The only thing that gave me any trouble were the mod-added goblin spawns. I suspect they are part of Dark Horizons, or DSotSC, but there are red colored xvarts, who are labelled as goblins, and if you run into a small group of these, they'll rapidly multiply into dozens, or even more, and just keep mulitiplying until you wipe out massive numbers with AoE spells like Fireball, or even better, Holy Smite. One batch I was able to kill (after two reloads) without resorting to that method, by just having Shar-Teel, Nix, and Branwen pop Oil of Speed, and letting them mulch their way through stupendous amounts of these things. Imoen, with her "Throwing Dagger of Death," Morwen with longbow, and Viconia with the Elemental Sling, that produces its own ammo, were (barely) able to keep the front rank from getting surrounded. By this point, Bran had a 21 STR, thanks to taking a Potion of Fire Giant Strength from one of the dead Duergar, and letting the dwarf at the Friendly Arm Inn combine it the Girdle of Piercing, for 10,000 GP. At this point both Nix and Shar-Teel both have 19 STR, Nix naturally, from being a Gnoll, and Teel from a +3 battleaxe that adds a point to STR. When I looted the bodies afterwards, I noted that that in places, they were stacked 12-15 deep. Not sure how many I killed total, but 150-200+ seems about right.

    The equipment the party has right now is probably OP, but it really doesn't matter all that much, because most real battles are over before they begin, with a combination of Web, Hold Person, and Stinking Cloud, letting missile weapons from the back ranks do most of the killing. Having 4 spellcasters really does open up some tactics. For the most part, the front ranks really only deal with things like wolves and other stuff too incidental to waste spells on.


    CrevsDaak
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    I'm probably going to wrap up this discussion, leaving you with some thoughts on playing a gnoll, some of the pros and cons.

    The biggest pro is you get a distinct looking character, who is something different. I created her as a half-orc, before EEKing her into a gnoll, which let me start off with a 19 STR, which is nice, and fell into the PnP stat adjustment for the race. On the battlefield, she's distinctive, (even when fighting other gnolls, and in addition to her regular voice, you also get the gnoll growling and barking when attacking for more immersion, which is a nice touch.

    The downsides are mostly a comparative lack of customization, as all armors are going to look mostly the same on the character with minor touches, and the only weapon that shows up is the halberd. Other than that, attack animations are also limited to the single sweeping attack they get, which looks rather static and dull compared to a regular PC wielding the same weapon. The main thing that actually caused a problem was the character falling behind the rest of the party due to the gnoll walking animations. I could have probably fixed this with EEK, but instead waited to get Paws of the Cheetah, which took care of the issue.

    Other than that, she's been fun, and a real beast of war on the battlefield. I finished up the Dark Side of the Sword Coast adventures with her last night, and she literally tore through the opposition, mulching enemies left and right, especially when hastened. Here are a couple of screens showing her in the aftermath of her latest adventures:







    JuliusBorisovThacoBellCrevsDaaklunar
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,123
    Is dark side of the sword coast compatiblie with 2.x? Or are you on an older version?
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    I'm using 2+, and yes, it's mostly compatible. I had a few crashes in certain spots, and one quest couldn't be completed due to a bugged item, but it mostly worked. I had a lot more trouble with earlier installations of the mod, but this time, it mostly performed like it was supposed to. I'm also running it with Dark Horizons which works fine.

    SoD, however, will mess up a lot of things, so I don't have it currently installed. I honestly would rather have the mods for the base game than SoD anyway, if I have to choose.
    ThacoBellCrevsDaak
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 91
    Have you modded the difficulty of the gnoll fortress? Sleep makes those fights much easier.

    Or is this a mage free run and I missed it?
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 91
    Also, awesome work modding in gnolls!
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,123
    This was a neat thread, it never occured to me to use monster races like this.
    JuliusBorisov
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    @Objulen I think the Gnoll fortress is made harder by Dark Horizons, as it actually seems to add in several types of Gnolls that I don't think were present originally. I had EEked Alora to a mage, but I'd forgotten to give her anything in her spellbook, meaning I didn't have much worth casting at the time, only just a couple of scrolls I'd looted from corpses along the way. Her career as a mage was short anyway, as she got mulched by that Duergar leader in the mines, meaning her replacement was the bard Morwen, (also added by Dark Horizons) until Immy reached 6th level, and I dual classed her to mage.

    @ThacoBell Making Nix a gnoll was pretty easy, just a matter of changing her in EEK. I've enjoyed the character, and will probably play her all the way until the end of BG, though don't know if I'll export her to BG II yet. I used the slightly spoiled sounding voice (#2?) to give her a bit of character. I'm debating if I want to do some writing based on her, but my original outline meandered into NSFW territory including hijinks with me changing a certain belt into a "Girdle of Mixed Masculinity/Femininity" I'll give you a hint-it half worked, and explained why the poor ogre was especially desperate to get another to change it back!

    This was actually an interruption of the game I already had going on, where I was playing Aoife, a Dwarven Defender, that I'm looking forward to resuming at some point. I barely made it to the mines, but I'm probably going to start over with her, so that I start from the beginning with some of the mods I added, Like Scales of Balance.




    ThacoBellPapa_LouCrevsDaakObjulen
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member Posts: 2,202
    I did a similar thing in Icewind Dale. One party member was a Kitsune Bard (Half-Elf with edited stats in EEkeeper) that used the Raksasha model and another party member was a Kobold Rogue (Halfling stats) using, well, a Kobold model lol. It's how I learned that despite Raksasha's wielding what appears to be scimitars the weapon only appears when a longsword is equipped.
    SkatanJuliusBorisovObsidianShadeThacoBell
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,290
    edited February 11
    Oh yeah, I have the bg1:ee heavily modded with dsosc, and dark horizons. I nerfed every single op dark horizon item via dltcep, for example a weapon that stuns all the time now has %5 chance to do so, and allows a save, etc.

    Gnoll fortress is very very very difficult with this set up and I even have added two trolls there manually. The battles were hard and required reloads but I did it. I gave up upon those pesky goblins that never die off, I think they are bugged because no matter how many you kill they keep spawning out of thin air. Maybe you need to kill a liutenant or shaman goblin to stop them from spawning? Don't know. At that point I stopped playing that crazy game. (Only to install improved anvil on bg2 to continue the craziness up to new levels unheard of! Lol)
    ObsidianShadeCrevsDaak
  • ObsidianShadeObsidianShade Member Posts: 69
    The "goblin" superspawns are easy to handle--Fireball, Cloudkill, or Holy Smite will deal with them just fine. I think you have to kill some of their leaders, after which they stop spawning. If you move fast enough, you can wipe out the entire group before they have a chance to spawn massive numbers.
    CrevsDaak
  • OniDaimyoOniDaimyo Member Posts: 25
    Is there some way to make weapons not invisible? I want to use a greatsword and I thought flinds used those?
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    OniDaimyo said:

    Is there some way to make weapons not invisible?

    In general, no. If the animation frames exist in the game files for that particular sprite using that particular weapon-type, then the weapon will show, but if the animation doesn't exist in the game files then the weapon can't be shown. For most monster sprites, animations exist only for the weapons (if any) which they use in the base game.
    OniDaimyo said:

    I want to use a greatsword and I thought flinds used those?

    Yes, flinds use greatswords, so there's an animation sequence for that combination.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member Posts: 2,202
    Just be aware (like I posted above) the weapon shown might not be the weapon used to trigger the animation. Longswords trigger the Rakshaka model to have the scimitar animation while scimitars leave then unarmed.
  • OniDaimyoOniDaimyo Member Posts: 25
    But how do you even use a flind model? I dont see it in EE?
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 2,781
    edited May 31
    There is no "flind" animation. Flind CREs use the gnoll animation. They just have different colors set in the CRE.

    Also, flinds don't actually wield two-handed swords. They use a special undroppable weapon called "flind1.itm" that uses "S1- Long sword" appearance. The two-handed swords you get as loot when you kill flinds are in their inventories.
    Post edited by AstroBryGuy on
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