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End Game Decision - What's your choice? (Massive spoilers)

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Comments

  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 156
    Freedom
    Freedom. Cause Neera would be sad. :smile:

  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 435
    Freedom
    You chose freedom for love? Way to lose those shackles just to put another set on, you silly goose. Your children will probably end up causing a wild surge that will get you stuck in a time loop with Noober and Neeber in it.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,257
    Godhood
    I would choose god hood so then I could tell all the world and creatures and deities to go pound sand and travel the universe instead, the universe be a big place, and you need to live a long time to travel it, even if you can travel at light speed

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,634
    Godhood
    sarevok57 said:

    I would choose god hood so then I could tell all the world and creatures and deities to go pound sand and travel the universe instead, the universe be a big place, and you need to live a long time to travel it, even if you can travel at light speed

    I just wanna see future cars.

    sarevok57profanitywarning
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 782
    Freedom
    sarevok57 said:

    I would choose god hood so then I could tell all the world and creatures and deities to go pound sand and travel the universe instead, the universe be a big place, and you need to live a long time to travel it, even if you can travel at light speed

    It don't work that way in FR. Gods ignoring their portfolio is the direct cause of the Time of Troubles.

  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 156
    Freedom
    Nuin said:

    You chose freedom for love? Way to lose those shackles just to put another set on, you silly goose. Your children will probably end up causing a wild surge that will get you stuck in a time loop with Noober and Neeber in it.

    Heh, just as long as they have pink hair, I'm fine with it

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,257
    Godhood

    sarevok57 said:

    I would choose god hood so then I could tell all the world and creatures and deities to go pound sand and travel the universe instead, the universe be a big place, and you need to live a long time to travel it, even if you can travel at light speed

    It don't work that way in FR. Gods ignoring their portfolio is the direct cause of the Time of Troubles.
    they'll never catch me ;)

    BelgarathMTH
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,167
    edited April 2017
    Freedom
    sarevok57 said:

    I would choose god hood so then I could tell all the world and creatures and deities to go pound sand and travel the universe instead, the universe be a big place, and you need to live a long time to travel it, even if you can travel at light speed

    Ao wouldn't allow that. Gods shirking portfolio responsibilities to follow their own whims is what started the Time of Troubles in the first place.

    Everybody's accountable to somebody, no matter high up the power scale you go. Even Ao is accountable to reality itself.

    EDIT: Whoops, I just saw somebody else already mentioned this.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 782
    Freedom

    sarevok57 said:

    I would choose god hood so then I could tell all the world and creatures and deities to go pound sand and travel the universe instead, the universe be a big place, and you need to live a long time to travel it, even if you can travel at light speed

    Ao wouldn't allow that. Gods shirking portfolio responsibilities to follow their own whims is what started the Time of Troubles in the first place.

    Everybody's accountable to somebody, no matter high up the power scale you go. Even Ao is accountable to reality itself.

    EDIT: Whoops, I just saw somebody else already mentioned this.
    Well I didn't mention Ao who would slap down a shirker.

  • IrennanIrennan Member Posts: 49
    edited April 2017
    Freedom



    It don't work that way in FR. Gods ignoring their portfolio is the direct cause of the Time of Troubles.

    I thought it was more Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul stealing the tablets, but yeah there's also that. In any case, there are gods in the Realms who--while not ignoring their portfolio--also do unrelated things. He could be a god of murder who tells his followers to travel the Multiverse so that they will find more people to murder! That would make him a perfect deity for adventurers, since most of them are basically murderhobos, now that I think about it.

    Post edited by Irennan on
    sarevok57
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 782
    Freedom
    Irennan said:



    It don't work that way in FR. Gods ignoring their portfolio is the direct cause of the Time of Troubles.

    I thought it was more Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul stealing the tablets
    That was the proverbial straw that broke the camel. Otherwise wouldn't Ao have just punished those 3 instead of the entire FR pantheon?

    Irennan
  • IrennanIrennan Member Posts: 49
    Freedom

    Irennan said:



    It don't work that way in FR. Gods ignoring their portfolio is the direct cause of the Time of Troubles.

    I thought it was more Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul stealing the tablets
    That was the proverbial straw that broke the camel. Otherwise wouldn't Ao have just punished those 3 instead of the entire FR pantheon?

    True, true.

  • RohenRohen Member Posts: 10
    Godhood
    (...)

    (I have not presented a third option because the game itself doesn't give us one.)

    Godhood, or Freedom?


    Sorry for re-awaking a long forgotten topic, but i simply can't watch this stupidly naive words and worldviews that you, and most who chose MORTALITY (don't mistake it with freedom) route put here.

    Let start from beginning that you cheated players who voted here. Baldur's Gate 2 can be ended in 3 different routes.

    1. Good Godhood - You finally defeated evil taint of Bhaal murder essence, and you will ascend, and stand in the FR pantheon as as good deity. This is the only, and true good ending. I will explain it at the end of this post.

    2. Evil Godhood - You fulfill the evil prophecy, and take your evil father legacy, you will stand as evil god of murder. This is the true neutral ending. You do nothing more that follow prophecy route, and takes what life, and destiny will throw at you.

    3. Mortality - Which is the true evil choice, and false promise of freedom, while up until the end, you are the pawn of the prophecy. Prophecy that was put on hold by your choice, for couple of years, only to be fulfilled in the end by someone else. That is your choice, the selfishness, and nothing more. Mortality is the evil choice of cowards, and naive fools.

    So, your basic statement, that there is no other choice is false, and consequently this entire voting pool is misleading and false too.

    As i promised at the start i put here explanation, why good godhood is the best good choice. You see from the beginning of BG2 game is hinting you that there will never be peace, tranquility and freedom until bloody throne of bhaal will stay empty. Also, Alaundo prophecy, and Elvish spirit words and advises tell you clearly, no matter what you do, no matter what you chose, you will never be free from prophecy written by the hand of greater GOD, or if not king of gods, Ao himself (if what Solar says is true).

    So, puny human, with only a % of god blood thinks that he can break, or abolish prophecy sealed by the king of gods, nice, what a ridicule thing it is, as consequences in the cannon shows what your "Freedom" choice is bringing upon the world.

    By choosing "Freedom", or mortality as should be stated here to be correct, you will throw away all suffering and sacrifices of your long journey, and your lowed ones sacrifices, you will be spiting on they memory and face, or graves if they are dead like Gorion, only to gain illusion of freedom, a false promise of taking your life in your hands.
    There is nothing like true freedom, not only in BG game, D&D world or even in every day reality. You must compromise something to live, to eat, to sleep, even to marry, or even to simply exist in every day society, or you are alpha and omega (yep, a god), and can be truly free and do what you wish.

    Don't answer, i know you are not a god, so you are nothing more that naive fool, or a person who was brainwashed by propaganda of freedom.


    ALERT SPOILERS:

    Wizard of the coast or anyone who holds D&D copy-rights, choose to pick "freedom" ending in their cannonic Forgotten Realm time line. And we who read-ed this poor novel, written by half-brain author (sorry but i never read-ed in my life so poorly written novel), know what choice child of Gorion took, and what consequences it showed in the long run.

    So, cannonic Abdel Adrian choose to be a "free" mortal, only to die in the end by a hand of his half-brother Viekang, who miraculously poped up from nowhere (in the game he dies in Saradush), to kill our hero, and be the new lord of murder, unfortunately, he didn't won competition, and didn't possessed qualifications to pick the winner spot, and in the end bhaal essence rampaged and turned him in to monster. He was slain, by a party of heroes, and released essence in moment of his death, resurrected TRUE BHAAL, LORD OF MURDER. Tad-aah, that is your choice, or rather consequences of your selfish desires, to worship, and summon god of murder to this world again, congratulations, what a faithful son of bhaal you are.

    END OF SPOILERS.

    The only person who is well wersed in current world of D&D, and also real world is @UnderstandMouseMagic, for that i salute you man. You are truly wise, and experienced man.

    Others, sorry, i don't wanna to insult you, but i must say, you are too naive, or you just overlooked most of BG lore content. Im truly sorry for you.


    Ps: Now there will be BG 3, but im afraid that they will follow this corrupted route of killing all positive heroes, and also killing all good endings of every franchise, and give us stupid ending again.

    Pss: Feel free to dispute it with me or others. Im open for it, well if you can read my poor english.

    Isewein
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 869
    I would choose god hood so then I could tell all the world and creatures and deities to go pound sand and travel the universe instead, the universe be a big place, and you need to live a long time to travel it, even if you can travel at light speed

    Ao wouldn't allow that. Gods shirking portfolio responsibilities to follow their own whims is what started the Time of Troubles in the first place.

    Everybody's accountable to somebody, no matter high up the power scale you go. Even Ao is accountable to reality itself.

    EDIT: Whoops, I just saw somebody else already mentioned this.

    For AO it is not even only reality, at the end of the Avatar trilogy he checks in with his supervisor, who is just another AO like deity one level higher.

  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 607
    I liked the best ending, when my blackguard who gain his powers after Girion deads, choose godhood to free from his devil master and sacrifice a lot evil people, who doesnt care of (Viconia, Hexxat, Dorn, Korgan, Edwin). All die and only my pc survived and become god of murder. It was enjoyable.

  • tedmann12tedmann12 Member Posts: 43
    Just finished ToB for the first time ever. Chose Godhood. I feel like I should embrace who I am ya know? Not gonna lie end of the game and reading about all the NPCs after made me emotional. Playing this game for 20 years you grow an attachment to all of them!

    megamike15ThacoBellIseweinRohen
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,510
    hehe i see that the second season of game of thrones (of bhaal) has begun :)
    sadly i have too little lore in the fr settings to act in it, but watching i side with @UnderstandMouseMagic , hoping that at the end of the games will not change attitude like miss targarian did.

    Rohen
  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    The concept of being the god of murder could evolve.
    Look at the Ancient Greek view on Ares, for instance. He was a merciless, revelling in violence, bloodshed and murder, even if the victims were innocent.
    Greek mythology is the main inspiration for the ancient Roman variant. Mars holds the same portfolios as Ares, but has respect voor honorable warriors and can show mercy to those who cannot fight. There is absolutely no reason for a good-aligned ascended charname to continue in the tradition of Bhaal.

    ThacoBellgorgonzolaIsewein
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 162
    Freedom
    I went with freedom/mortality.

    However, I also tend to think that a good-aligned character could alter the trajectory of their godhood. Perhaps a very "energetic" force for justice? It's not like there aren't a large number of butts that need kicking in the Forgotten Realms universe.

    Rohen
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 8,844
    Freedom
    The way I see a good aligned version of Bhaal's portfolio is thus:

    The portfolio as Bhaal saw it is a very narrow interpretation. A good charname could biew it simply as "The transition from life to death." They could be a god of mercy, easing ones passing from life. Its also not a stretch to be able to REVERSE death, and heal the dying, since they would have full control of the in-between process. Heck, charname could straight up be a god of mercy.

    IseweinRohen
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 515
    Well, Bhaal's portfolio covered people who were unjustly taken from the realm of the living. In Bhaal's eyes that quickly became glorifying assassins and the like, encouraging violence as a way to sow chaos. A more benevolent CHARNAME could redefine it as comforting victims' families or protecting intended targets, which is pretty similar in spirit to what Thaco had in mind. A dispassionate interpretation might emphasize making sure wrongful deaths are properly labeled and revealed, while more martial CHARNAMEs might emphasize vengeance for lives wrongly taken.

    ThacoBellRohen
  • IseweinIsewein Member Posts: 100
    edited June 14
    Godhood
    Most of my Charnames lean towards Ascension. The promise of power is too enticing for both good or evil characters, the duty to take one's birthright and prevent Cyric's schemes too strong for intelligent Lawfuls to ignore. Moreover, after such a long time of fighting and losing so many loved ones to reach that goal, I think it is reasonable to begin harbouring a sense of prophecy. After so many have fallen (be they enemies or friends) for you to stand there at the Throne of Blood, does it seem wise to just walk away? As for those Charnames wary of the Taint - whether it really is possible or not, the ideas presented here on how to reinterpret Bhaal's portfolio in a less Chaotic Evil sense can certainly occur to them as well. Considering the power levels of ToB, the step to divinity doesn't seem nearly that far off anymore anyway, and I can well see hubris growing in them to the point that they believe they would be able to master the taint/portfolio of Murder and direct it towards their own ends (@Rohen above mirrors some of my own characters' internal monologues). Murder as Vengeance especially makes for a great new emphasis, considering Charname's life story. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't eventually be affected by it, especially after losing their mortal concerns and personal attachments for certain mortal friends after some decades. I don't dwell too much on that far-flung future, difficult to imagine as it is in a world with anthropomorphic deities, but I do have a vague feeling that despite all good intentions, this sort of power has a way to change you regardless.

    If any, I can see chaotic characters or those with strong (and alive) romantic relationships in this world walking away, but even to those the question remains of whether forsaking all that power by which to protect yourself and those close to you from madmen like Irenicus is really such a 'good' decision.

    Post edited by Isewein on
    Rohen
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,167
    Freedom
    @Isewein , I don't think any person who is actually wise would think they could handle having the power of a god without becoming absolutely corrupt and evil, no matter how good their intentions. Every "fall to the dark side" in real-life lore (literature, film, games) starts with somebody thinking they'll be able to handle the "forbidden" power without becoming evil. Heck, the theme goes all the way back to Adam and Eve. :)

    Arvia
  • IseweinIsewein Member Posts: 100
    edited June 14
    Godhood
    Oh see, philosophically I agree. But I don't trust myself to resist the temptation - boundless gain warrants any risk and all, and neither do I trust most of my Charnames. ;) It's true though that High Wisdom is the one character trait I would most associate with renouncing divinity.

    BelgarathMTH
  • RohenRohen Member Posts: 10
    edited June 14
    Godhood
    @ThacoBell, @BelgarathMTH;

    For this, for both gentlemen, and yours opposite standpoints in both post, i put a question, from a different game:

    "What can change the nature of man ?"


    If you both played it, you will know the answers.


    Returning to the main topic:

    BG 2: ToB ending, regardless if its the choice 1 or 2, are bit too sugar (the most probable, and truthful one (but not the ideal one, which is 1), after taking of consideration most of pros, cons and problems, is ending 3 - evil ascension), especially the second one, mortality is mostly made as fan-service, and nothing more.

    After all movie at the end did not present, or mention any consequences that charname will face when he/she returns to the mortal world (especially when game points something else at the beginning of trials in the pocket sphere, im talking about lesson about crime and punishment, and what intro to ToB says, well im repeating again what @UnderstandMouseMagic already said here). That's why, for me the "freedom" choice is false, and even more, an evil one.

    From voices in Candlekeep garden, through Alaundo prophecies, outro and intro, until the monologue of Elven spirit, and finally lessons in the pocket sphere, the Baldur's Gate Saga hints player that there is... no real choice at the end of the journey.

    The ending is obvious, you can fight and prevail, surrender and fall, or run away, and be a pawn in someone else hands. You, as a mortal (charname), can't run away from the destiny, you can change it, but you can never hide from it, or escape. And mortality is at least, considering from what stated above, and known consequences, nothing more than a poor attempt at escaping from it. Prophecy written by the hand of god will fulfill itself, with you, or without you.



    @Isewein;

    Thank you, its one of the best opinion on this matter. It touches both sides, which are duty and respect in one, and love at the other (but if i remember correctly, pseudo-writer [sorry, hes novel is so bad, that even my English is far better] killed all possible romances).



    Ps:I understand all your viewpoints, and respect it, even if i can not agree with them. This of course is for all three of you.

    Post edited by Rohen on
  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 447
    edited June 15
    Freedom
    While I don't think that remaining mortal equals freedom, I have never chosen and would never choose godhood.

    I always play good characters and make choices as if the real me (put into that situation with my in-game abilities) had to make them.

    I wouldn't leave loved ones behind and I wouldn't leave friends behind. The dialogue scenes at the end, before the final fight and before the choice, are very touching and I wouldn't ever have the heart to walk away.

    Emotional connections aside, even if it were possible to accept the essence cleared of the taint (and I highly doubt that there would be no traces left) and become a good god, I still wouldn't choose it.
    As a god in the Forgotten Realms, you're far from almighty. You're part of a big and quarrelsome pantheon, not unlike the Greek gods, with very limited domains for every god and strict rules. You wouldn't have much chance to make the world a better place, and half of them would plot to destroy you.

    To take the "Ring of Power" in a desire to do good? Even Gandalf didn't dare it, and he's much wiser and more experienced.
    Power corrupts people and changes them, and not for the better. I'm not so arrogant to think that I could be the exception.

    RohengorgonzolaBelgarathMTHThacoBell
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