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Seducer Kit for Thieves v1.32

semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
edited January 16 in General Modding
I always wanted to be able to charm critters like liches, mind flayers, Irenicus, and Melissan. But for many enemies, it just wasn't possible. I created this kit to change that.

The Seducer kit allows the player to charm literally ANYTHING in the game. But like my other kits, this powerful ability is balanced out by some crippling disadvantages--namely, a complete inability to perform the normal duties of a party's thief, and the worst defenses of any class in the game.

I've rebalanced the kit and made it fit the original concept a little bit better, removing the Hypnosis ability and replacing it with a charm effect that can target multiple critters at once. Also, the Seducer can now charm other critters into joining the party as if they were a normal NPC. But it only works on critters up to half your level (so no basilisks or demiliches), and some critters, like golems and unkillable quest characters, are immune. Or, you can charm critters into following the party as if they were familiars--they won't gain levels like party members and you can't access their inventory or spellbooks, but there is no limit to the number of followers you can gather.

The Seducer kit is compatible with BG:EE, SoD, and BG2:EE. If you have SoD, remember to install ModMerge before installing any other mods. It will probably be compatible with IWD:EE once the game is updated to version 2.4.

You can download the kit at the bottom of this post. The most recent version is 1.3, featuring the new Recruit Follower spell, but you can also try out the older versions in case you want the old area-effect Feeblemind ability from v1.1.

Kit description (there's a lot of detail to this kit):

A Seducer is a thief who acts through persuasion rather than sleight of hand. Socially cunning and politically astute, they develop an ability to forge close relationships with the wealthy, powerful, or merely useful, and navigate complex social orders with speed and grace. Some may use their talents to influence people for the better, propping up and guiding the wise and honest, or exposing and ostracizing the corrupt and the selfish. Others use their talents for personal gain, exploiting their allies' weaknesses, and destroying their opponents with whatever means they can.

Despite the name, a Seducer's abilities are more complex than attractiveness or charm. A Seducer uses psionic abilities and arcane magic as well as physical appeal to influence others, and can gain control over potentially any creature with a semi-conscious mind--even those of a different orientation, species, or plane of existence, as well as sexless creatures, constructs, and the undead. No mind is truly safe from a Seducer's grasp; only sheer will and mental fortitude can block the Seducer's influence.

CLASS FEATURES:

- May cast Charm at will
- May cast Domination at will
- May cast Seduction at will
- May cast Recruit Follower at will
- May cast Dispel Charm at will
- +1 Charisma
- Immunity to charm and domination
- +1 to save vs. spell at level 1 and every 5 levels after
- +1 AC vs. melee weapons at level 1 and every 6 levels after

- Only gains 15 skill points per level (30 at level 1)
- Cannot detect traps or set traps
- Backstab does not progress beyond 2x
- Only gains 1d4 hit points per level
- May not wear any armor
- Does not gain Use Any Item or most thief HLAs


DOMINATION: The Seducer may attempt to take control over any creature within 30 feet for 1d3 rounds, infiltrating their mind and probing their thoughts and desires. If the target fails its save vs. spell at +4, the Seducer will wriggle their way into the subject's mind and take over after half a round. As the Seducer grows more experienced, their charms become more effective:

Level 1: +4 to saving throw
Level 2: +3 to saving throw
Level 3: +2 to saving throw
Level 5: +1 to saving throw
Level 7: +0 to saving throw
Level 9: -1 to saving throw
Level 12: -2 to saving throw
Level 15: -3 to saving throw
Level 18: -4 to saving throw
Level 22: -5 to saving throw
Level 26: -6 to saving throw
Level 30: -7 to saving throw
Level 35: -8 to saving throw
Level 40: -9 to saving throw
Level 45: -10 to saving throw

Domination is not limited by the Seducer's line of sight; he or she can target creatures who are invisible or behind a corner. Domination bypasses spell protections, magic resistance, and immunity to charm effects, but non-humanoid targets are more resistant to the Seducer's charms and make their saving throws at a bonus:

Intelligent and familiar creatures such as animals and yuan-ti:
+1 to saving throw
Unintelligent and unnatural creatures such as undead, trolls, and giants:
+2 to saving throw
Alien and extraplanar creatures such as beholders, elementals, and demons:
+3 to saving throw

Creatures who already charmed, however, suffer a -3 penalty to their saving throw.

The intense concentration involved in charming other creatures leaves the Seducer vulnerable. For 1 round after using Domination, the Seducer cannot attack and suffers -3 penalty to AC and -25% movement rate.

CHARM: Rather than focus their attention on a single target, a Seducer may attempt to charm multiple creatures at once. At level 1, a Seducer's Charm can affect two creatures at once; every 10 levels, the Seducer may charm another creature in the same round. Like Domination, Charm improves as the Seducer gains experience, but dividing the Seducer's attention makes the effect easier to resist:

Level 1: +7 to saving throw
Level 2: +6 to saving throw
Level 4: +5 to saving throw
Level 6: +4 to saving throw
Level 9: +3 to saving throw
Level 12: +2 to saving throw
Level 16: +1 to saving throw
Level 20: +0 to saving throw
Level 25: -1 to saving throw
Level 30: -2 to saving throw
Level 36: -3 to saving throw
Level 42: -4 to saving throw
Level 49: -5 to saving throw

As with Domination, Charm bypasses normal immunities, offers bonuses to alien minds (such as animals and extraplanar creatures), and imposes -3 penalty to AC and -25% movement rate on the Seducer for 1 round.


SEDUCTION: With time and great effort, a Seducer may take total control over a single creature. This ability cannot be used in the thick of combat; the Seducer must have a peaceful and safe environment to ensure the subject feels comfortable. The subject must also be under the effects of Charm or Domination in order for Seduction to be successful. Finally, the subject must have some senses or desires in order to be affected; golems and constructs are immune.

If the subject fails a save vs. spell at no penalty, the Seducer may coax it into joining the Seducer's party. The subject will obey any order and follow the party wherever it goes until it is dismissed from the group. The Seducer can take control of creatures up to half of his or her level.

(Seduction can have unintended effects if used on quest-related creatures, especially if a plot-critical creature is dismissed from the party for good. Some plot-relevant creatures, but not all, are immune by default.)

Most non-humanoid creatures (monsters, undead, elementals, and so forth) do not possess a standard character class. These creatures will be given the fighter class upon joining the party, allowing them to gain levels at the cost of a 50% XP penalty.


RECRUIT FOLLOWER: A Seducer of outstanding charisma may gather followers on his or her travels, whether by inspiring the righteous with a call to action, tempting the selfish with personal profit, or simply winning allies through sheer force of personal magnetism. This ability allows the Seducer to persuade the target to follow the Seducer's party wherever they may go, and is treated as the Seducer's familiar. Unlike Seduction, the target does not join the party, and therefore cannot gain levels, cannot be raised from the dead, and the Seducer cannot access its inventory or spellbook. However, there is no limit to how many followers a Seducer may possess (provided that he or she is able to keep all of them alive).

This ability cannot be used in the thick of combat, but unlike Seduction, the subject need not be charmed beforehand. The subject must have some senses or desires in order to be affected; golems and constructs are immune.

If the subject fails a save vs. spell at no penalty, the Seducer may coax it into following the Seducer's party until its dying breath. The Seducer can take control of creatures up to half of his or her level.

(Recruit Follower can have unintended effects if used on quest-related creatures. Some plot-relevant creatures, but not all, are immune by default.)


DISPEL CHARM: By delving into a charmed creature's mind, the Seducer can isolate and remove the charm's effects, whether the charm is magical, mundane, or psionic. This ability will dispel any charm effect from the target creature if he or she makes a save vs. spell at +5.


BETRAYAL: If the Seducer backstabs an opponent while it is under the effects of Charm or Domination, the Seducer may attempt to land a fatal blow while the target's guard is down. If the victim fails its save vs. death at -2, the Seducer will kill it instantly, using whatever weak point the Seducer can divine from its thoughts. Every 4 levels after level 1, victims of Betrayal must make their save at an additional -1 penalty, up to -7 at level 21. If the victim makes its save, the effects of Charm and Domination are broken and the Seducer cannot charm the target for another 5 rounds. Targets who resist the instant death effect will still suffer 2d6 damage, plus an additional 2d6 damage every 4 levels after level 1.

High-Level Abilities:
- Psionic Lock
- Psionic Invisibility
- Psionic Breach
- Psionic Teleportation
- Psionic Time Stop
- Psionic Foresight
- Evasion
- Alchemy
- Scribe Scrolls

DUAL-CLASS REQUIREMENTS: 13 Intelligence, 15 Wisdom, 17 Charisma

– Hit Die: d4

Post edited by semiticgod on
StummvonBordwehrKamigoroshiSkatanRelSundanJuliusBorisovChidojuanGrammarsaladCrevsDaakArctodusMirandellolienZaghoulOlvynChuru
«13

Comments

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,150
    Playing as a squishy Seducer half-orc sounds like so much fun! :-)

    Some questions about their talent of mind controlling any humanoid and non-humanoid critters pops up in my head though:
    While I get behind the idea of a Seducer grasping at the lingering vestige memories within the rotting brains and tormented souls of the undead. And perhaps even influencing the chemical output of an ooze's nucleus like RL body snatchers (green-banded broodsac, anyone?). I can't think of any roleplaying reason as to how they could possibly hijack an golem or similar constructs?

    Grammarsalad
  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 917
    Lovely! I will import a new character with this kit into my ongoing game to see how well it works out. Looking forward to trying your kit out. I have one question though; can you use Hypnosis while you are invisible without breaking the invisibility?

    CrevsDaak
  • StefanOStefanO Member Posts: 338
    If CHARNAME is female she should call herself Mata Hari. ;)

    (Sorry, I couldn't help myself)

    CrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
    @Kamigoroshi: Oozes are nearly impossible to charm. The chance of affecting non-human targets starts out at 5% and increases gradually with levels, so it has no real chance of happening in BG1 when oozes are really dangerous.

    In RP terms, you could justify it as more telekinesis rather than mind control for brainless targets.

    @RelSundan: Due to engine limitations, it's not possible to create a spell that has a target besides the caster that doesn't break invisibility.

    KamigoroshiCrevsDaaklolien
  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 917
    edited March 2017
    Ok, shame. Thought it would work similiar to bard song, turn undead etc.

    Edit. How about divination spells? Wouldnt it be possible to make it work like True seeing?

    CrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
    @RelSundan: It's possible. But the range would be limited to a circle around the Seducer, who is extremely vulnerable and is awfully easy to kill if it gets close to enemies. And if the Seducer could use Hypnosis without losing invisibility, it would be much too strong--there'd be no disadvantage to using it.

    The Seducer's vulnerability is the most important thing keeping the kit balanced. It already lost its best thieving abilities, but that's not enough considering how strong Charm is (and weakening Charm to balance it out instead would make the kit a lot less interesting).

    StummvonBordwehrCrevsDaaklolien
  • StefanOStefanO Member Posts: 338
    edited March 2017
    I'm not sure the term "seducer" fits well into an AD&D setup.

    A seducer, according to my dictionary, is

    a person who entices someone into sexual activity: a serial seducer of young women.

    From my English Thesaurus:

    the man was an accomplished seducer: womanizer, philanderer, deceiver, adulterer, Romeo, Don Juan, Lothario, Casanova, playboy, lecher, ladies' man; informal ladykiller, lech, dirty old man, goat, wolf, skirt-chaser.

    Sure, English isn't my first language, but it doesn't fit somehow.

    A bard could be a "seducer". Haer'Dalis acts as one for sure. But a thief?

    Arunsun
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,363
    It could be cool if instead of an at-will ability, there was a constant passive effect that had a chance to charm any enemies within some range. Like a nymph walking around or something. Or maybe this should be an HLA.

  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,657
    edited March 2017

    It would also be kind of funny for charmed humanoids to have a small percent chance to end up as stalkers/yandere. Something akin to an enragement effect due to jealousy of the Seducer's party members, perhaps? :trollface:

    In that case, charming oozes and mind flayers should be 100% successful when the character is under effect of severe agnosia :tongue: When in Slayer form maybe :D

    KamigoroshiCrevsDaak
  • StefanOStefanO Member Posts: 338
    edited March 2017

    I didn't know what else to call the kit besides Seducer. Agent, Spy, Politician, Manipulator, Power Broker, Diplomat, Charmer... none of these really fit. Who would want to play a class called Politician in a game like BG2? I went with the most vivid and interesting name I could think of.

    Unfortunately I can't think of a better name too. I thought of siren (women or winged creatures whose singing lured unwary sailors on to rocks), but siren are already in the game.

    Enchantress (a woman who uses magic to put someone or something under a spell) isn't gender neutral and Enchanter are already there too.

    Bewitcher (a handsome prince who had been bewitched by a sorceress)? Neither vivid nor interesting nor good.

    I see your problem.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,150
    edited March 2017
    Personally I don't think Seducer is a bad name for this Thief kit. Nor do I find it doesn't mesh well with the rest of Faerûn. Given that it's a fitting and gender neutral term on top.

    But for the discussion's sake, other possible gender neutral names could be: Allurer, Puppeteer, Thrallherd, Silvertongue, Noble, Mindbender, Mind-Walker, Enslaver, Hypnotist, Telepath, Euphorist, or Mesmerist. Out of them Pathfinder's Mesmerist might be the closest in concept design to our Seducer here.

    Post edited by Kamigoroshi on
    semiticgodlolien
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,488
    "Mesmerist" seems to fit the class concept better than seducer imo. The term implies mysticism and/or psionics, which seems to more accurately describe the kit

    CrevsDaak
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,991
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 917
    edited March 2017
    Played around with your kit for a while and I totally love it. It's fair and balanced and it is a unique kit. Nicely executed, thanks for bringing us this masterpiece.

    Can you bring up some more info on the "Dispel Charm" ability? Is it always a guarantee it will work?

    Post edited by RelSundan on
    StummvonBordwehrCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
    @RelSundan: It should remove all forms of charm from the target, provided the target makes a save vs. spell at +5. I haven't done full testing, but I set it to remove the effects of Charm Person, Dire Charm, Dominate, Mental Domination, and all other spells that use charm effects. I also used an EE opcode that's supposed to remove all instances of a given opcode (in this case, opcode 5, charm), but I'm not sure if or how it works (I've never seen it in any other spells).

    RelSundanCrevsDaak
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,363
    Opcode 337? Should work fine.

    semiticgodCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
    I just updated the kit, improving a couple of its abilities and giving it some more interesting HLAs.

    RelSundanKamigoroshilolien
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371
    Oh my this is awesome, I'll have to try it soon(tm).

    One of my current PnP characters is a Glamour Bard in 5e that focuses on charming people and making her own "Cult of the Wandering Fey"

    While not a Bard I think this would be fun to run in a group with

    Gypsy Bard - Song and Silence, has bard song that charms enemies.

    Heartwarder of Sune - Divine Remix, has a mass dire charm ability

    Enchanter Wizard - base game, -2 to charm saves is nice.

    and then a Seducer Thief.

    Now to think of two more to join in a charm-themed party

    semiticgod
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
    I have updated the kit to fix a bug and make the Seducer a little closer to the original concept. It can now seduce other critters into joining the party! Also, I replaced the area-effect feeblemind spell with a multi-target charm spell, since the Seducer is supposed to be geared more towards taking over enemies rather than crowd control.

    @Vallmyr: If you haven't started that party yet, I'd recommend you try out the new version of the Seducer kit.

    Vallmyrlolien
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371
    I have not! Question, when you seduce someone into the party do they take up an actual party slot?

    semiticgod
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
    @Vallmyr: Yup. I wanted the Seducer to be able to bring a charmed critter from one area into another, and this is the only way to make it happen that I know of.

    Seducers need high levels to charm strong critters, but there are exceptions. The Huge Spiders in Beregost are only level 2, so a level 4 Seducer can bring them into the party if you isolate them from the others (bear in mind that Seduction doesn't work in-combat).

    Vallmyr
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371
    Oh this sounds awesome then, I'll def have to try it soon when I run the charm-party.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
    The Seduction ability isn't completely bug-free. Charming the spiders of Beregost is fine, but if you try to charm the skeletons by High Hedge, it'll produce a nasty bug when you try to leave the area. The skeleton vanishes but remains in the party, preventing you from making any new area transitions ("you must gather your party before venturing forth").

    If you don't want to take the risk, just don't use Seduction. It won't gimp your Seducer; the kit is designed to be balanced even without the spell.

    Vallmyrlolien
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371
    I'll just rotate my saves so if things go wrong I'll go to a prior save.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,801
    @Vallmyr: I've updated the kit!

    Monsters you bring into the party via Seduction can now gain fighter levels, and also get some XP dependent on their level, though they suffer a 50% XP penalty if they don't already have a character class. The XP penalty will put them at about one less level on average than a normal fighter like Kagain or Mazzy (or several levels once you get into ToB).

    So if you bring Tarnesh into the party, he'll be a normal mage, but if you bring a Sword Spider into the party (which would take 10 Seducer levels, because Sword Spiders are level 5), it will become a fighter. It will still have its normal attack, be immune to Hold Person and Charm Person and have 4 attacks per round (!), but its stats will be low, its movement rate will be low, it won't have any proficiency points (at first), and it's probably never going to learn any HLAs (!).

    Some special abilities and behaviors can't translate due to engine stuff. You can charm mephits, but they won't be able to use their spells more than once per day.

    Vallmyrlolien
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Looking forward to giving this kit a try on my next run. Also, I'm a little late to the party, but if you're looking for a more fitting name you could try "Beguiler". "Beguile" also involves charming or captivating someone, (often to a specific end), but doesn't carry the same sexual (and largely gendered) connotations as "seduce".

    To me, at least, beguile also keeps the best part of "seducer" (at least relative to related terms like "enchanter", "bewitcher", "siren", "succubus", etc.), in that it implies that the action is strictly mundane, relying entirely on wits and wiles instead of some sort of spell or dweomer.

    semiticgod
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