Seducer Kit for Thieves v1.32
semiticgoddess
Member Posts: 14,903
I always wanted to be able to charm critters like liches, mind flayers, Irenicus, and Melissan. But for many enemies, it just wasn't possible. I created this kit to change that.
The Seducer kit allows the player to charm literally ANYTHING in the game. But like my other kits, this powerful ability is balanced out by some crippling disadvantages--namely, a complete inability to perform the normal duties of a party's thief, and the worst defenses of any class in the game.
I've rebalanced the kit and made it fit the original concept a little bit better, removing the Hypnosis ability and replacing it with a charm effect that can target multiple critters at once. Also, the Seducer can now charm other critters into joining the party as if they were a normal NPC. But it only works on critters up to half your level (so no basilisks or demiliches), and some critters, like golems and unkillable quest characters, are immune. Or, you can charm critters into following the party as if they were familiars--they won't gain levels like party members and you can't access their inventory or spellbooks, but there is no limit to the number of followers you can gather.
The Seducer kit is compatible with BG:EE, SoD, and BG2:EE. If you have SoD, remember to install ModMerge before installing any other mods. It will probably be compatible with IWD:EE once the game is updated to version 2.4.
You can download the kit at the bottom of this post. The most recent version is 1.3, featuring the new Recruit Follower spell, but you can also try out the older versions in case you want the old area-effect Feeblemind ability from v1.1.
Kit description (there's a lot of detail to this kit):
A Seducer is a thief who acts through persuasion rather than sleight of hand. Socially cunning and politically astute, they develop an ability to forge close relationships with the wealthy, powerful, or merely useful, and navigate complex social orders with speed and grace. Some may use their talents to influence people for the better, propping up and guiding the wise and honest, or exposing and ostracizing the corrupt and the selfish. Others use their talents for personal gain, exploiting their allies' weaknesses, and destroying their opponents with whatever means they can.
Despite the name, a Seducer's abilities are more complex than attractiveness or charm. A Seducer uses psionic abilities and arcane magic as well as physical appeal to influence others, and can gain control over potentially any creature with a semi-conscious mind--even those of a different orientation, species, or plane of existence, as well as sexless creatures, constructs, and the undead. No mind is truly safe from a Seducer's grasp; only sheer will and mental fortitude can block the Seducer's influence.
CLASS FEATURES:
- May cast Charm at will
- May cast Domination at will
- May cast Seduction at will
- May cast Recruit Follower at will
- May cast Dispel Charm at will
- +1 Charisma
- Immunity to charm and domination
- +1 to save vs. spell at level 1 and every 5 levels after
- +1 AC vs. melee weapons at level 1 and every 6 levels after
- Only gains 15 skill points per level (30 at level 1)
- Cannot detect traps or set traps
- Backstab does not progress beyond 2x
- Only gains 1d4 hit points per level
- May not wear any armor
- Does not gain Use Any Item or most thief HLAs
DOMINATION: The Seducer may attempt to take control over any creature within 30 feet for 1d3 rounds, infiltrating their mind and probing their thoughts and desires. If the target fails its save vs. spell at +4, the Seducer will wriggle their way into the subject's mind and take over after half a round. As the Seducer grows more experienced, their charms become more effective:
Level 1: +4 to saving throw
Level 2: +3 to saving throw
Level 3: +2 to saving throw
Level 5: +1 to saving throw
Level 7: +0 to saving throw
Level 9: -1 to saving throw
Level 12: -2 to saving throw
Level 15: -3 to saving throw
Level 18: -4 to saving throw
Level 22: -5 to saving throw
Level 26: -6 to saving throw
Level 30: -7 to saving throw
Level 35: -8 to saving throw
Level 40: -9 to saving throw
Level 45: -10 to saving throw
Domination is not limited by the Seducer's line of sight; he or she can target creatures who are invisible or behind a corner. Domination bypasses spell protections, magic resistance, and immunity to charm effects, but non-humanoid targets are more resistant to the Seducer's charms and make their saving throws at a bonus:
Intelligent and familiar creatures such as animals and yuan-ti:
+1 to saving throw
Unintelligent and unnatural creatures such as undead, trolls, and giants:
+2 to saving throw
Alien and extraplanar creatures such as beholders, elementals, and demons:
+3 to saving throw
Creatures who already charmed, however, suffer a -3 penalty to their saving throw.
The intense concentration involved in charming other creatures leaves the Seducer vulnerable. For 1 round after using Domination, the Seducer cannot attack and suffers -3 penalty to AC and -25% movement rate.
CHARM: Rather than focus their attention on a single target, a Seducer may attempt to charm multiple creatures at once. At level 1, a Seducer's Charm can affect two creatures at once; every 10 levels, the Seducer may charm another creature in the same round. Like Domination, Charm improves as the Seducer gains experience, but dividing the Seducer's attention makes the effect easier to resist:
Level 1: +7 to saving throw
Level 2: +6 to saving throw
Level 4: +5 to saving throw
Level 6: +4 to saving throw
Level 9: +3 to saving throw
Level 12: +2 to saving throw
Level 16: +1 to saving throw
Level 20: +0 to saving throw
Level 25: -1 to saving throw
Level 30: -2 to saving throw
Level 36: -3 to saving throw
Level 42: -4 to saving throw
Level 49: -5 to saving throw
As with Domination, Charm bypasses normal immunities, offers bonuses to alien minds (such as animals and extraplanar creatures), and imposes -3 penalty to AC and -25% movement rate on the Seducer for 1 round.
SEDUCTION: With time and great effort, a Seducer may take total control over a single creature. This ability cannot be used in the thick of combat; the Seducer must have a peaceful and safe environment to ensure the subject feels comfortable. The subject must also be under the effects of Charm or Domination in order for Seduction to be successful. Finally, the subject must have some senses or desires in order to be affected; golems and constructs are immune.
If the subject fails a save vs. spell at no penalty, the Seducer may coax it into joining the Seducer's party. The subject will obey any order and follow the party wherever it goes until it is dismissed from the group. The Seducer can take control of creatures up to half of his or her level.
(Seduction can have unintended effects if used on quest-related creatures, especially if a plot-critical creature is dismissed from the party for good. Some plot-relevant creatures, but not all, are immune by default.)
Most non-humanoid creatures (monsters, undead, elementals, and so forth) do not possess a standard character class. These creatures will be given the fighter class upon joining the party, allowing them to gain levels at the cost of a 50% XP penalty.
RECRUIT FOLLOWER: A Seducer of outstanding charisma may gather followers on his or her travels, whether by inspiring the righteous with a call to action, tempting the selfish with personal profit, or simply winning allies through sheer force of personal magnetism. This ability allows the Seducer to persuade the target to follow the Seducer's party wherever they may go, and is treated as the Seducer's familiar. Unlike Seduction, the target does not join the party, and therefore cannot gain levels, cannot be raised from the dead, and the Seducer cannot access its inventory or spellbook. However, there is no limit to how many followers a Seducer may possess (provided that he or she is able to keep all of them alive).
This ability cannot be used in the thick of combat, but unlike Seduction, the subject need not be charmed beforehand. The subject must have some senses or desires in order to be affected; golems and constructs are immune.
If the subject fails a save vs. spell at no penalty, the Seducer may coax it into following the Seducer's party until its dying breath. The Seducer can take control of creatures up to half of his or her level.
(Recruit Follower can have unintended effects if used on quest-related creatures. Some plot-relevant creatures, but not all, are immune by default.)
DISPEL CHARM: By delving into a charmed creature's mind, the Seducer can isolate and remove the charm's effects, whether the charm is magical, mundane, or psionic. This ability will dispel any charm effect from the target creature if he or she makes a save vs. spell at +5.
BETRAYAL: If the Seducer backstabs an opponent while it is under the effects of Charm or Domination, the Seducer may attempt to land a fatal blow while the target's guard is down. If the victim fails its save vs. death at -2, the Seducer will kill it instantly, using whatever weak point the Seducer can divine from its thoughts. Every 4 levels after level 1, victims of Betrayal must make their save at an additional -1 penalty, up to -7 at level 21. If the victim makes its save, the effects of Charm and Domination are broken and the Seducer cannot charm the target for another 5 rounds. Targets who resist the instant death effect will still suffer 2d6 damage, plus an additional 2d6 damage every 4 levels after level 1.
High-Level Abilities:
- Psionic Lock
- Psionic Invisibility
- Psionic Breach
- Psionic Teleportation
- Psionic Time Stop
- Psionic Foresight
- Evasion
- Alchemy
- Scribe Scrolls
DUAL-CLASS REQUIREMENTS: 13 Intelligence, 15 Wisdom, 17 Charisma
– Hit Die: d4
The Seducer kit allows the player to charm literally ANYTHING in the game. But like my other kits, this powerful ability is balanced out by some crippling disadvantages--namely, a complete inability to perform the normal duties of a party's thief, and the worst defenses of any class in the game.
I've rebalanced the kit and made it fit the original concept a little bit better, removing the Hypnosis ability and replacing it with a charm effect that can target multiple critters at once. Also, the Seducer can now charm other critters into joining the party as if they were a normal NPC. But it only works on critters up to half your level (so no basilisks or demiliches), and some critters, like golems and unkillable quest characters, are immune. Or, you can charm critters into following the party as if they were familiars--they won't gain levels like party members and you can't access their inventory or spellbooks, but there is no limit to the number of followers you can gather.
The Seducer kit is compatible with BG:EE, SoD, and BG2:EE. If you have SoD, remember to install ModMerge before installing any other mods. It will probably be compatible with IWD:EE once the game is updated to version 2.4.
You can download the kit at the bottom of this post. The most recent version is 1.3, featuring the new Recruit Follower spell, but you can also try out the older versions in case you want the old area-effect Feeblemind ability from v1.1.
Kit description (there's a lot of detail to this kit):
A Seducer is a thief who acts through persuasion rather than sleight of hand. Socially cunning and politically astute, they develop an ability to forge close relationships with the wealthy, powerful, or merely useful, and navigate complex social orders with speed and grace. Some may use their talents to influence people for the better, propping up and guiding the wise and honest, or exposing and ostracizing the corrupt and the selfish. Others use their talents for personal gain, exploiting their allies' weaknesses, and destroying their opponents with whatever means they can.
Despite the name, a Seducer's abilities are more complex than attractiveness or charm. A Seducer uses psionic abilities and arcane magic as well as physical appeal to influence others, and can gain control over potentially any creature with a semi-conscious mind--even those of a different orientation, species, or plane of existence, as well as sexless creatures, constructs, and the undead. No mind is truly safe from a Seducer's grasp; only sheer will and mental fortitude can block the Seducer's influence.
CLASS FEATURES:
- May cast Charm at will
- May cast Domination at will
- May cast Seduction at will
- May cast Recruit Follower at will
- May cast Dispel Charm at will
- +1 Charisma
- Immunity to charm and domination
- +1 to save vs. spell at level 1 and every 5 levels after
- +1 AC vs. melee weapons at level 1 and every 6 levels after
- Only gains 15 skill points per level (30 at level 1)
- Cannot detect traps or set traps
- Backstab does not progress beyond 2x
- Only gains 1d4 hit points per level
- May not wear any armor
- Does not gain Use Any Item or most thief HLAs
DOMINATION: The Seducer may attempt to take control over any creature within 30 feet for 1d3 rounds, infiltrating their mind and probing their thoughts and desires. If the target fails its save vs. spell at +4, the Seducer will wriggle their way into the subject's mind and take over after half a round. As the Seducer grows more experienced, their charms become more effective:
Level 1: +4 to saving throw
Level 2: +3 to saving throw
Level 3: +2 to saving throw
Level 5: +1 to saving throw
Level 7: +0 to saving throw
Level 9: -1 to saving throw
Level 12: -2 to saving throw
Level 15: -3 to saving throw
Level 18: -4 to saving throw
Level 22: -5 to saving throw
Level 26: -6 to saving throw
Level 30: -7 to saving throw
Level 35: -8 to saving throw
Level 40: -9 to saving throw
Level 45: -10 to saving throw
Domination is not limited by the Seducer's line of sight; he or she can target creatures who are invisible or behind a corner. Domination bypasses spell protections, magic resistance, and immunity to charm effects, but non-humanoid targets are more resistant to the Seducer's charms and make their saving throws at a bonus:
Intelligent and familiar creatures such as animals and yuan-ti:
+1 to saving throw
Unintelligent and unnatural creatures such as undead, trolls, and giants:
+2 to saving throw
Alien and extraplanar creatures such as beholders, elementals, and demons:
+3 to saving throw
Creatures who already charmed, however, suffer a -3 penalty to their saving throw.
The intense concentration involved in charming other creatures leaves the Seducer vulnerable. For 1 round after using Domination, the Seducer cannot attack and suffers -3 penalty to AC and -25% movement rate.
CHARM: Rather than focus their attention on a single target, a Seducer may attempt to charm multiple creatures at once. At level 1, a Seducer's Charm can affect two creatures at once; every 10 levels, the Seducer may charm another creature in the same round. Like Domination, Charm improves as the Seducer gains experience, but dividing the Seducer's attention makes the effect easier to resist:
Level 1: +7 to saving throw
Level 2: +6 to saving throw
Level 4: +5 to saving throw
Level 6: +4 to saving throw
Level 9: +3 to saving throw
Level 12: +2 to saving throw
Level 16: +1 to saving throw
Level 20: +0 to saving throw
Level 25: -1 to saving throw
Level 30: -2 to saving throw
Level 36: -3 to saving throw
Level 42: -4 to saving throw
Level 49: -5 to saving throw
As with Domination, Charm bypasses normal immunities, offers bonuses to alien minds (such as animals and extraplanar creatures), and imposes -3 penalty to AC and -25% movement rate on the Seducer for 1 round.
SEDUCTION: With time and great effort, a Seducer may take total control over a single creature. This ability cannot be used in the thick of combat; the Seducer must have a peaceful and safe environment to ensure the subject feels comfortable. The subject must also be under the effects of Charm or Domination in order for Seduction to be successful. Finally, the subject must have some senses or desires in order to be affected; golems and constructs are immune.
If the subject fails a save vs. spell at no penalty, the Seducer may coax it into joining the Seducer's party. The subject will obey any order and follow the party wherever it goes until it is dismissed from the group. The Seducer can take control of creatures up to half of his or her level.
(Seduction can have unintended effects if used on quest-related creatures, especially if a plot-critical creature is dismissed from the party for good. Some plot-relevant creatures, but not all, are immune by default.)
Most non-humanoid creatures (monsters, undead, elementals, and so forth) do not possess a standard character class. These creatures will be given the fighter class upon joining the party, allowing them to gain levels at the cost of a 50% XP penalty.
RECRUIT FOLLOWER: A Seducer of outstanding charisma may gather followers on his or her travels, whether by inspiring the righteous with a call to action, tempting the selfish with personal profit, or simply winning allies through sheer force of personal magnetism. This ability allows the Seducer to persuade the target to follow the Seducer's party wherever they may go, and is treated as the Seducer's familiar. Unlike Seduction, the target does not join the party, and therefore cannot gain levels, cannot be raised from the dead, and the Seducer cannot access its inventory or spellbook. However, there is no limit to how many followers a Seducer may possess (provided that he or she is able to keep all of them alive).
This ability cannot be used in the thick of combat, but unlike Seduction, the subject need not be charmed beforehand. The subject must have some senses or desires in order to be affected; golems and constructs are immune.
If the subject fails a save vs. spell at no penalty, the Seducer may coax it into following the Seducer's party until its dying breath. The Seducer can take control of creatures up to half of his or her level.
(Recruit Follower can have unintended effects if used on quest-related creatures. Some plot-relevant creatures, but not all, are immune by default.)
DISPEL CHARM: By delving into a charmed creature's mind, the Seducer can isolate and remove the charm's effects, whether the charm is magical, mundane, or psionic. This ability will dispel any charm effect from the target creature if he or she makes a save vs. spell at +5.
BETRAYAL: If the Seducer backstabs an opponent while it is under the effects of Charm or Domination, the Seducer may attempt to land a fatal blow while the target's guard is down. If the victim fails its save vs. death at -2, the Seducer will kill it instantly, using whatever weak point the Seducer can divine from its thoughts. Every 4 levels after level 1, victims of Betrayal must make their save at an additional -1 penalty, up to -7 at level 21. If the victim makes its save, the effects of Charm and Domination are broken and the Seducer cannot charm the target for another 5 rounds. Targets who resist the instant death effect will still suffer 2d6 damage, plus an additional 2d6 damage every 4 levels after level 1.
High-Level Abilities:
- Psionic Lock
- Psionic Invisibility
- Psionic Breach
- Psionic Teleportation
- Psionic Time Stop
- Psionic Foresight
- Evasion
- Alchemy
- Scribe Scrolls
DUAL-CLASS REQUIREMENTS: 13 Intelligence, 15 Wisdom, 17 Charisma
– Hit Die: d4
Post edited by semiticgoddess on
13
Comments
Some questions about their talent of mind controlling any humanoid and non-humanoid critters pops up in my head though:
While I get behind the idea of a Seducer grasping at the lingering vestige memories within the rotting brains and tormented souls of the undead. And perhaps even influencing the chemical output of an ooze's nucleus like RL body snatchers (green-banded broodsac, anyone?). I can't think of any roleplaying reason as to how they could possibly hijack an golem or similar constructs?
(Sorry, I couldn't help myself)
In RP terms, you could justify it as more telekinesis rather than mind control for brainless targets.
@RelSundan: Due to engine limitations, it's not possible to create a spell that has a target besides the caster that doesn't break invisibility.
Edit. How about divination spells? Wouldnt it be possible to make it work like True seeing?
The Seducer's vulnerability is the most important thing keeping the kit balanced. It already lost its best thieving abilities, but that's not enough considering how strong Charm is (and weakening Charm to balance it out instead would make the kit a lot less interesting).
A seducer, according to my dictionary, is
a person who entices someone into sexual activity: a serial seducer of young women.
From my English Thesaurus:
the man was an accomplished seducer: womanizer, philanderer, deceiver, adulterer, Romeo, Don Juan, Lothario, Casanova, playboy, lecher, ladies' man; informal ladykiller, lech, dirty old man, goat, wolf, skirt-chaser.
Sure, English isn't my first language, but it doesn't fit somehow.
A bard could be a "seducer". Haer'Dalis acts as one for sure. But a thief?
I could make the bard song charm enemies, but keeping it balanced was tough. If it was too strong, the bard would be far too effective against enemy groups. If it was too weak, there'd be no point in using it against individual bosses, which would be the truly fun part. So I divided the abilities: single target Charm and area-effect Hypnosis.
I made the Seducer a thief because the concept was a spy or manipulater whose abilities were more social than magical or martial. Somebody who used words instead of swords, schemes instead of spells. That ruled out both fighters and spellcasters (who would want to play a fighter kit that couldn't fight?), leaving the most mundane class, thieves, as the most plausible option.
Plus, being able to pick locks, hide in shadows, and backstab just fit the concept too well. Only a thief could do all of those things.
To make the Charm ability make more sense in-combat, I made it a quasi-psionic class.
I didn't know what else to call the kit besides Seducer. Agent, Spy, Politician, Manipulator, Power Broker, Diplomat, Charmer... none of these really fit. Who would want to play a class called Politician in a game like BG2? I went with the most vivid and interesting name I could think of.
Enchantress (a woman who uses magic to put someone or something under a spell) isn't gender neutral and Enchanter are already there too.
Bewitcher (a handsome prince who had been bewitched by a sorceress)? Neither vivid nor interesting nor good.
I see your problem.
But for the discussion's sake, other possible gender neutral names could be: Allurer, Puppeteer, Thrallherd, Silvertongue, Noble, Mindbender, Mind-Walker, Enslaver, Hypnotist, Telepath, Euphorist, or Mesmerist. Out of them Pathfinder's Mesmerist might be the closest in concept design to our Seducer here.
Can you bring up some more info on the "Dispel Charm" ability? Is it always a guarantee it will work?
One of my current PnP characters is a Glamour Bard in 5e that focuses on charming people and making her own "Cult of the Wandering Fey"
While not a Bard I think this would be fun to run in a group with
Gypsy Bard - Song and Silence, has bard song that charms enemies.
Heartwarder of Sune - Divine Remix, has a mass dire charm ability
Enchanter Wizard - base game, -2 to charm saves is nice.
and then a Seducer Thief.
Now to think of two more to join in a charm-themed party
@Vallmyr: If you haven't started that party yet, I'd recommend you try out the new version of the Seducer kit.
Seducers need high levels to charm strong critters, but there are exceptions. The Huge Spiders in Beregost are only level 2, so a level 4 Seducer can bring them into the party if you isolate them from the others (bear in mind that Seduction doesn't work in-combat).
If you don't want to take the risk, just don't use Seduction. It won't gimp your Seducer; the kit is designed to be balanced even without the spell.
Monsters you bring into the party via Seduction can now gain fighter levels, and also get some XP dependent on their level, though they suffer a 50% XP penalty if they don't already have a character class. The XP penalty will put them at about one less level on average than a normal fighter like Kagain or Mazzy (or several levels once you get into ToB).
So if you bring Tarnesh into the party, he'll be a normal mage, but if you bring a Sword Spider into the party (which would take 10 Seducer levels, because Sword Spiders are level 5), it will become a fighter. It will still have its normal attack, be immune to Hold Person and Charm Person and have 4 attacks per round (!), but its stats will be low, its movement rate will be low, it won't have any proficiency points (at first), and it's probably never going to learn any HLAs (!).
Some special abilities and behaviors can't translate due to engine stuff. You can charm mephits, but they won't be able to use their spells more than once per day.
To me, at least, beguile also keeps the best part of "seducer" (at least relative to related terms like "enchanter", "bewitcher", "siren", "succubus", etc.), in that it implies that the action is strictly mundane, relying entirely on wits and wiles instead of some sort of spell or dweomer.