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How good is an Archer kit late game?

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Comments

  • VitharVithar Member Posts: 64

    Vithar said:

    With all due respect - don't mislead people with the ''powergamer'' excuse , it's not Starcraft:Brood War on Korean level where you need the 0.000001 from a second to be accurate.

    It's a game that can be completed by billions of ways on the highest difficulty without a problem.

    With all due respect, it not being a competitive esport does not mean you're not allowed to enjoy min/maxing to the extreme. I don't want other people to do that, I just try and share some wisdom to help others discover things they might end up liking but perhaps would not otherwise have considered.

    As for the issue at hand, you could very well simply ask: why NOT put things into another box/xbow? It's likely to be all that much more useful overall than that random axe skill you use once or twice if at all. What will * in axes, swords, and spears really DO for an Archer? What situation is there where having such skill is useful, compared to those points being in another (read: better at at that point) bow/xbow weapon?

    But again - I am not saying YOU MUST DO THIS OMG OR YOU SUCK. I'm just saying, think what you believe you will actually gain out of spreading wide. When you will actually use it. And whether or not you wouldn't actually prefer it be some other ranged weapon.
    The whole idea behind my post above is that words like ''yours'' create the illusion in people about certain mechanics and doubt on what they can or should play.
    I didn't say that you've said that ''people must do that or they suck'' as well and i don't have anything against you.
    Mentioning Starcraft was a ''metaphor''.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761

    But again - I am not saying YOU MUST DO THIS OMG OR YOU SUCK. I'm just saying, think what you believe you will actually gain out of spreading wide. When you will actually use it. And whether or not you wouldn't actually prefer it be some other ranged weapon.

    Archers are like Clerics in that you're pretty quickly going to have all the proficiency points you'll ever need, and after that you're going to waste them in place you'll never use.

    From a powergame standpoint, all you need is five pips in Shortbow and a couple pips in some sort of backup option, (either Slings or Halberd/QStave + THW to be used with Greater Whirlwind). Everything past that is superfluous. I mean, sure, you could put them in Crossbow. But from a powergame perspective when would you use that Crossbow since shortbows/slings would outdamage it at every point? It'd be just as wasted there as it would be in, say, spears or katanas or flails.

    But like I said, if you're an Archer, you're going to be wasting proficiency points, just like a Cleric will be. (In fact, there's a nasty bug with the Archer>Cleric dual where, depending on how you spend your proficiency points, you'll eventually reach a point where you have a pip that you can't legally assign anywhere and as a result you'll no longer be able to level up.)
    GreenWarlock
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,800
    @SomeSort I believe they have fixed that bug.
    SomeSort
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    ThacoBell said:

    @SomeSort I believe they have fixed that bug.

    Good to know. It was a pretty esoteric bug, since (a) you couldn't hit high enough levels to run across it in SoA, and (b) you couldn't dual from Archer to Cleric once you installed ToB. So you were really only running across it if you used mods to remove the dual-class restrictions.
    ThacoBell
  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323
    It'd be just as wasted there as it would be in, say, spears or katanas or flails.
    Ixil's Spike is absolutely amazing.
    ThacoBell
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    edited April 18

    It'd be just as wasted there as it would be in, say, spears or katanas or flails.
    Ixil's Spike is absolutely amazing.

    Sure. So are Flail of Ages and Celestial Fury, but you only need one melee weapon.

    If you already have a pip in Halberds and have Ravager +6, when are you going to switch to Ixil's Spike and use that, instead? (Or alternately, if you already have a pip in Spears, when are you going to switch to Halberds and use Ravager, or if you have a pip in Quarterstaves and Staff of the Ram, when you are you going to use either?)

    An Archer really needs one primary ranged weapon (Shortbows are the best, but Crossbows are close behind and Long Bows are viable if they're more your speed flavor-wise), and also one backup weapon against highly-immune monsters, (Erinne Sling, Ixil's Spike, Ravager, Staff of the Ram, even a 1-hander like Crom Faeyr works great).

    Once you have those maxed, (which takes about 7 proficiency points and can be done by level 9), the Archer is left with nothing to do but spend points on weapons he'll never need and might never even use because they're strictly inferior to the ones he already has.

    Which is why talking about "optimal" places to spend proficiency points for an Archer is kind of pointless. "Optimal" is achieved shortly after you step outside of Chateau Irenicus, so it doesn't really matter what you do after that.

    (Much like how a single-classed cleric doesn't really care what he or she does with all remaining proficiency points once he already has flail, hammer, mace, and sling. Sure, you're probably never going to use that Club proficiency, but you gotta put the point somewhere.)
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,081
    If we're talking about optimizing, are we optimizing the party, or for solo play?
    It is easy to point out how a melee fighting type with a giant-strength belt will hit as hard or harder than an archer, and from earlier in the game, but there are a limited number of such belt, and I have NPCs who can wear them for me. I don't have an archer NPC, which allows the player to contribute something different to the party mix other than being a stat-monster who swallowed all the Tomes in BG1.

    If you don't play with a full party, then the balance changes again - but I this thread finally inspired me to pick up the Archer PC I had played through BG1 and parked after Irenicus's dungeon, and it looks like Rasaad and Jaheira are going to be the main recipients of melee-boosting kit on this play through, while Neera, Aerie, and Jan give me more than sufficient spell coverage. I can afford to be the sharp-shooter in the spare slot.
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