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How good is an Archer kit late game?

Could one play all the way from BG1 to ToB with an Archer kit and be doing ok with it?
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Comments

  • gugulug5000gugulug5000 Member Posts: 97
    I love the Archer kit, but I am admittedly not the most hardcore of players. I played with an Archer in Icewind Dale and he was above level 20 and still dominating in the party kill count (by a long lead). I'd say yes to your question.
    semiticgod
  • georgelappiesgeorgelappies Member Posts: 136
    abacus said:

    Pick shortbows or crossbows and he'll rip **** up.

    Don't forget that on the very few occasions where missile weapons aren't ideal, you still have a high level warrior with free dual-wielding.

    Thanks, but why is this? Aren't there great composite longbows?

    Or is the best ranged weapon a shortbow?
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,239
    The only problem with them is that they're a touch repetitive to play... which might get boring depending on your preferences.
    OrlonKronsteenCrevsDaakjackjack
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 279

    Could one play all the way from BG1 to ToB with an Archer kit and be doing ok with it?

    Yes, you can play an Archer Kit entirely from BG1 to the end of ToB and do quite well with it. In BG1 through the first three/four chapters of BG2, having an Archer in the party is basically God Mode. Don't be the slightest bit surprised if he's accounting for 40-50% of all kills during that span. You'll find you have to prepare less and rest less, you can march into tougher quests at lower levels, etc.

    By the Underdark, an Archer slowly stops being God Mode and instead becomes a competitive top-tier damage dealer who keeps pace with your best melee attackers instead of leaving them in his dust. By early ToB, the melee attackers start to finally pull ahead, and by the end of ToB he'll be more of a support/utility damage-dealer instead of a total party-carrier. And that's fine. After carrying your entire party through 80% of the game, the poor guy/gal deserves a little break.

    Despite not being the top damage dealer, he'll retain plenty of utility. He's great for interrupting mages and stripping mirror images / stoneskins. He's the only physical attacker in the game who can interrupt casters through both PFMW *and* Stoneskin at the same time. He has some utility ammunition to bust out when it's time to deal a particular type of elemental damage, (say, against the Chromatic demon in Watcher's Keep, or when facing trolls). Arrows of Dispelling are extremely potent, if very limited. Same with Arrows of Detonation. Called Shot is a phenomenal debuff. I believe he gets all of his kit bonuses when using Fire Seeds, which is potentially hilarious.

    He can switch weapons and be a credible melee attacker if necessary, (I find he's a great target for Staff of the Ram or Ravager+6 if you haven't already earmarked those for someone else in the party). For the most part, melee won't be necessary-- between Gesen, Firetooth, and Everard's Sling, he'll have the means of hitting most everything except Clay Golems. He's good. He'll contribute. He's not top tier, but he's not dead weight, and your party will be better for his presence.
    OrlonKronsteenNecroscope86
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 205
    A long bow with +4 unlimited ammo is something many of us hoped would be added to the Enhanced Editions, but not yet. It's times like these that I remember the saying, 'Hope springs eternal.' There are cheats for those who really want to use longbows. You can use Near Infinite to make Arrows of Piercing strike as +4 weapons, or EE Keeper in some +4 arrows from the Black Pits. I think there was an items upgrade mod that included a bow called Teleomortis which, IIRC, has unlimited +4 ammo. I never used the mod and I don't know if it's available for the EEs, however.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 213
    Kivan has been superb as an archer for me- I'm looking forward to doing a nature themed party sometime. There are few enemies which require +4 ammo, and several decent longbows in the Item Revisions mod.
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 273
    SomeSort said:

    He's the only physical attacker in the game who can interrupt casters through both PFMW *and* Stoneskin at the same time.

    A wizard slayer wielding normal weapons (or even fists) can do this too, considering that miscast is applied on a successful hit. And a blackguard with their cheesy poison weapon, unless the apply-through-everything-including-mirror-image issue got fixed.


    That said, an archer works just fine. Imo the only problem with rangers is their buggy stronghold, ever since the original game.
    semiticgod
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 2,825
    I've had 1000s and 1000s of play throughs of these game, and rarely if ever did I use a crossbow ( never been a fan, maybe it's perhaps of an esthetic choice) the only time that I ever used a crossbow is when I bring jan along in my party, but that quickly gets replaced by the first magical short bow I find
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 3,773
    Mantis37 said:

    Kivan has been superb as an archer for me- I'm looking forward to doing a nature themed party sometime. There are few enemies which require +4 ammo, and several decent longbows in the Item Revisions mod.

    IR does change things up quite a bit. Not only are there some really good longbows, but crossbows are also nerfed because they are AP hard-capped due to the added reload time that invalidates even things like GWW (as a trade-off, they do massive damage per hit and are still competitive for much of the game). In IR the three weapon types are very close, to the point where it's not easy to decide on a clear winner. While longbows remain locked to the +3 level, they do make up for it by having both amazing early game choices (Strong Arm, which gives +10(!) damage in IR) and a late-game monster (Taralash, which comes with +1 APR among other things). Enemies requiring +4 are, after all, countable on one hand so it's not a HUGE concession.
    createaccountArctodus
  • iNtuiNtu Member Posts: 33
    edited March 6
    If I remember correctly, short bow is most advantageous in terms of kiting, when you solo. There is a lesser delay between attacks when you move & auto attack constantly (with increased movement rate ofc ;) ).

    I mean, there is no time for standing around catching flies when using crossbows and longbows :{

    You can test it out in the arena ;)
  • iNtuiNtu Member Posts: 33
    sarevok57 said:

    I've had 1000s and 1000s of play throughs of these game, and rarely if ever did I use a crossbow ( never been a fan, maybe it's perhaps of an esthetic choice) the only time that I ever used a crossbow is when I bring jan along in my party, but that quickly gets replaced by the first magical short bow I find

    I've played a lot too ^_^ to the point where I actually look for new experiences, I am playing F9/Mage with Summons & Cross Bow and I'm loving it :D
    sarevok57
  • georgelappiesgeorgelappies Member Posts: 136
    Ok, so crossbows use strength and not dexterity right? So no need to be an elf to min-max?
  • Jirayia2Jirayia2 Member Posts: 18
    Archer is great, but with 5 attacks per round, you loose arrows very fast. Long bows are the best.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 3,773

    Ok, so crossbows use strength and not dexterity right? So no need to be an elf to min-max?

    Neither bows nor crossbows receive any damage bonus from any of your stats. Missile attacks do, however, get a THAC0 bonus based on your DEX value. Additionally, elves receive a +1 THAC0 bonus to bows as well.

    Given that Rangers (and thus Archers) can only be elves, humans, and half-elves anyway and humans have no bonuses of any kind, there is little reason NOT to be an elf. Unless it's for preference/RP in which case why care about a few THAC0 points.
    semiticgodcreateaccount
  • iNtuiNtu Member Posts: 33
    edited March 6
    Jirayia2 said:

    Archer is great, but with 5 attacks per round, you loose arrows very fast. Long bows are the best.

    Well, how about this: if you don't loose arrows to kill an enemy, then you loose HP and die... Am I right?!)

    The higher DPS - the faster they drop to the ground - you take less DMG ... and as far as I remember, best short bows beat best long bows in terms of DPS.

    Also: Quiver of Plenty, Gensen Bow and Firetooth generate ammo.

    Too late into the game? ->Fill archers inventory with arrows if you're not soloing. What's the problem? Need space for what? You have 5 other heroes...

    If you're soloing, it may be a problem, but you won't be standing and shooting at 5 APR anyway - some movement will be required of you! In my previous post I've already spoken about delays :)

    So no, long bow does not win either way!
  • JasperRaithJasperRaith Member Posts: 22
    Archer is great late game - solo'd all the way through the game with pretty minimal reloading, just firing, running away and firing some more. With the Gesen Bow and improved haste from the Darkfire Bow + Amulet of Cheetah Speed, you get 23 rounds of 9 attacks/round. It is brilliant and very satisfying. I recall there being some drops in productivity/boredom during periods when you haven't got any new items, but overall great kit, lots of fun.

    I'd recommend 2 pips in slings, 5 in shortbows - that should do you marvellously for almost every encounter.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 709
    Too much emphasis on powerplay going on here as opposed to roleplay/gameplay.

    Yes shortbows are the best in BG2.

    But an eleven archer decides not to use the "elven court bow" from D'Arniss?
    An archer with a high strength score is going to mess around with piddley short bows?

    And how many players swap around with items, using one for this another for that?
    I carry around the firetooth this playthrough, nobody uses it but I have money to burn and there are a few enemies it works well for.

    Archers are lethal in BG and BG2.






  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 3,773

    Too much emphasis on powerplay going on here as opposed to roleplay/gameplay.

    That's largely because there is little basis for a discussion in terms of RP. You like something, take it. Easy as that. Who cares if it's better when RP is your concern. When RP is NOT your concern, however, there's lots to discuss. I find it easiest to just stick to that part of the discussion so you can actually have a discussion, and with the information provided everyone can then make their informed RP decisions as their own preferences take them.

    Also: don't let the name short bow fool you. They can still have MONSTROUSLY strong draw.
    GreenWarlockSomeSortjackjack
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 282
    Archers Pre-EE were fast, damaging, long range snipers, what's not to like? I'll tell you what's not to like. Nightmarish item-managing messes because you deplete stacks of arrows very very quick. In the EE era they are fast, damaging, long range snipers, what's not to like? Nothing.
    Girewanjackjack
  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 326
    Archer is one of the most solid Kits, as other explained enough by now Shortbows or Crossbow to the max for the infinite +4/5 Ammo and 2 points in Club or Mace paired with a shield for that rare few enemy's in between who are Immune to piercing damage.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 279

    Archer is one of the most solid Kits, as other explained enough by now Shortbows or Crossbow to the max for the infinite +4/5 Ammo and 2 points in Club or Mace paired with a shield for that rare few enemy's in between who are Immune to piercing damage.

    Archers can only put one pip in melee weapons. They get up to five in bows or crossbows, and two in slings or darts. (I also prefer two-handed weapons instead of one-hander-plus-shield to reduce the amount of micromanagement required. Quarterstaffs and Halberds have phenomenal options throughout the entire series, and quarterstaffs can hit Clay Golems, your *real* racial enemy.)

    I do think the "long bows can't hit enemies that require +4 weapons" thing is kind of a red herring. As far as I know, the only enemies that can't be hit by +3 weapons are Demiliches (there's two of these in the entire game, both optional, only one of which even gives you anything worth owning), Demogorgon (optional, and role players are generally discouraged from fighting him), the Demon Lord in Ust Natha (optional, and which almost nobody fights, anyway), and the Ravager. Plus mages who cast Improved Mantle, (but not Mages who cast Mantle, Protection from Magical Weapons, or Absolute Immunity. And these protections can all be dispelled, anyway.)

    The real problem with Longbows is that (A) Crossbows can get the same number of attacks with more damage per attack, (B) Shortbows can deal the same damage per attack with more attacks, and (C) that uber-Crossbow and Shortbow are both easily obtainable literally within five minutes of completing the prologue.
    semiticgodcreateaccount
  • ReadingRamboReadingRambo Member Posts: 593
    I mod the quiver (or case/bag) of plenty to strike as +5 so that I don't feel obligated to focus on any particular weapon. This makes for more fun gameplay for me
    semiticgodcreateaccountOrlonKronsteen
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 352
    I had a run with archer and it was so satisfying. After i start a new run with archer because i get the mod that allow to use the bow enchantment level rather the arrow, so the longbows had some use.
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,235
    Enchant the Missile Launchers by @Dee makes it so that ranged weapons use the launcher's enchantment bonus instead of the ammunition's. So Taralash +4 using mundane arrows would be able to hit Kangaxx. Ammo with a higher enchantment bonus overrides the launcher's enchantment too, so the Tuigan Bow +1 using Arrows +2 counts as +2.

    I find this mod to be indispensable to ranged characters because now I don't have to worry about conserving certain enchanted ammo, so I can use all the good stuff and not horde it due to my "but what if I need it more, later?" problem. It applies to bows - short, long, and cross - as well as slings.

    You can use Near Infinite to make Arrows of Piercing strike as +4 weapons

    That's what I've done.

    I think there was an items upgrade mod that included a bow called Teleomortis which, IIRC, has unlimited +4 ammo. I never used the mod and I don't know if it's available for the EEs, however.

    Item Upgrade works for the EEs and Teleomortis +4 also has a 5% chance to cause confusion on hit for 30 seconds.
    createaccountOrlonKronsteen
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