Another THAC0 thread...

Masklin

Hello!

I'm playing BG2 again. Perhaps this time I will actually finish!

I keep getting stuck on investigating how my equipment and buffs and abilities have an impact or not on attack rolls, saving throws, and so on. It bothers me greatly when the numbers do not add up.

Right now for example, I'm hitting Aerie (sorry) with the Helm of Balduran equipped. My THAC0 is reported as 10 in the inventory UI. On the attack roll it says +7.

Now I remove the helmet. The UI says THAC0 11. The attack roll however, is still +7.

What in the frack is going on?


Very grateful for some lightshed... I won't sleep until I understand.



Masklin


EDIT: Okay I suspect a solution. THAC0 bonuses from non-weapon equipment do not add to the attack roll, but they lower the threshold that your must reach with the roll. At least it is like this for helmets. Haven't tested amulets, rings, shields, boots, gloves, or armor...

ThacoBell

Yeah, THAC0 does not add bonuses to hit. It lowers the roll needed to hit something.

Masklin

Aha!

I like your name. It makes me trust you instantly. Do you always max Charisma?

So what things DO add to the '+X' of the attack roll?

Buffs/Weapon bonuses/Strength/Ability bonuses?

ThacoBell

The "+X" would be damage in most cases. And yes, I do always max charisma

Skatan

I've played this game for many, many years and I haven't actually ever bothered with scrutinizing exactly how everything works. Maybe that makes me weird, but I say this because my next comment might be very incorrect, but..
..I think the +X you see in the roll is your weapon attack type vs the enemy armor vs that type, ie a slashing weapon attacking a armor with base 1 AC and +3 vs slashing gives another +X in the roll than if you would have attacked with a piercing weapon.

But I still learn new things almost everyday in this forum, just yesterday I learned a new thing about the reputation system I had never picked up even after two decades, hehe

BillyYank

The + you see in the attack roll is everything that adds to your roll. So if you get +1 from strength, +1 from proficiency and you're using a +2 sword, it should say +4.

sarevok57

heres the thing, that " + bonus " in the display window is a little arbitrary and really doesn't need to be put there because it causes confusion, here is what is actually happening:

so lets say your base thac0 is 15, but your main is 10, so what will happen is in the display window it will look like you have a +5 bonus to hit on things, when in reality you don't, this was implemented in SoA when it first came out and I don't know why they did that, because it just causes a little confusion, perhaps it was for esthetic purposes?

now the reason why you took the helm of balduran off and it didn't change your "to hit bonus" is because the helm lowers your base thac0 ( just like the weapon skill bracers as well)

so when in doubt, always go off the main thac0 when you want to determine what you can hit, don't rely on the display window with your attack rolls, because that goes off of your base thac0,

they should have kept it like in the original BG where the only time you saw bonuses is when you actually had them, because then it was much easier to tell if you had a bonus or a penalty

kjeron

It all depends on the source of the bonus.

Based on yourself, as listed in the inventory/record screen:
These affect the number to beat: x +/- y = Z

• Base THAC0
  
• To Hit: +/-#
  

These affect the bonus to your attack roll: x +/- Y = z

• Proficiency: +/-#
  
• Strength/Extra: +/-#
  
• Dexterity: +/-#
  
• Missile Adjustment: +/-#
  
• Bonus: +/-#
  
• Fist Bonus: +/-#
  
• (Race): +/-#
  
• (Weapon Style): +/-#
  
• (item-name): +/-#
  
• (unlisted) opcode 284 - Melee Thac0 bonus - I don't think its used outside of Mods
  
• (unlisted) opcode 178 - Thac0 vs type bonus (evil,demons,undead,etc)(varies)
  
• (unlisted) Luck, in its own way(varies)
  
• (unlisted) Berserk(+2)
  
• (unlisted) Invisible(+4)
  

Based on your opponent:
These affect the number to beat: x +/- y = Z

• Base Armor Class
  
• Generic Armor Class Bonuses
  

These affect the bonus to your attack roll: x +/- Y = z

• Too close while you are using Ranged(-8)
  
• Unarmed/Ranged while you are using Melee(+4)
  
• Invisible(-4)
  
• Racial Enemy(+4)
  
• AC vs type bonuses (crush,slash,evil,good,etc)(varies)
  

I'm probably still missing some.

Masklin

Wow!

What a great forum this is. I could not have asked for a better set of replies. I shall sleep very well tonight. :]

The mystery is solved. Thanks to all of you!