Does SoD spoil BG2?

themazingness

I read somewhere that Dragonspear spoils some of BG2's story because it connects the two games. Would you forumites recommend playing Baldur's Gate 2 first? I never got the chance to back in the day, so I don't want to ruin it.

If the spoilers are minor, I'm not too worried about it.

filcat88

I would say no, it does not spoil anything. If you have not played BG2 yet, go for SOD.

megamike15

it's foreshadowing mostly.

UnderstandMouseMagic

As megamike15 says, it uses a lot of foreshadowing.

For me, that does affect BG2 negatively because BG2 was created from the angle that charname doesn't know what is going on. I think that the original writers intention was to have charname at the start of BG2 as naive/lost as they were at the start of BG.

Also some combat, you meet enemies that were a big deal with build up in BG2 as a matter of "routine" in SOD.

themazingness

UnderstandMouseMagic said:

As megamike15 says, it uses a lot of foreshadowing.

For me, that does affect BG2 negatively because BG2 was created from the angle that charname doesn't know what is going on. I think that the original writers intention was to have charname at the start of BG2 as naive/lost as they were at the start of BG.

Also some combat, you meet enemies that were a big deal with build up in BG2 as a matter of "routine" in SOD.

Ah, I can see how somebody could take that as a spoiler. I could live with that though.

ThacoBell

Yeah, it only spoils id you ALREADY know what goes down in BG2. At which point it wouldn't matter anyway.

smeagolheart

If you've never played Bg2 you'll wonder who a certain mysterious character is.

But honestly, if you've never played Bg2 play it first. It is one of, or arguably, THE BEST rpgs of all time. SOD isn't bad, but it's certainly not the best rpg ever.

Kurona

It doesn't spoil BG2 per se but it can lessen the impact somewhat. BG2 expects to "wow" you with powerful creatures that didn't appear before, so if you already encountered them in SoD (while significantly weaker) the spark is lost, so to speak. More importantly, the grand finale of Shadows of Amn loses a lot of magic if you played SoD beforehand, as they use roughly the same setting.

There's also the matter of difficulty. SoD enemies are smart -- a lot smarter than the average BG2 foe. This, coupled with the focus on hordes, make the game quite a bit harder than BG2 (aside from specific encounters).

Frankly I would recommend you to play BG2 first.

jsaving

Well, SoD's plot has very little to do with BG2 and the "spoilers" mainly consist of NPCs talking about the potential importance of the player character, which isn't really new information since Elminster did pretty much the same thing in BG1. The one genuinely new bit of information you do uncover in SoD is that BG2's "big bad" is as arrogant as he is powerful, but I don't think that is nearly enough in and of itself to justify postponing SoD until after you play BG2.

rapsam2003

Well, foreshadowing isn't spoiling, so no.

AndreaColombo

jsaving said:

The one genuinely new bit of information you do uncover in SoD is that BG2's "big bad" is as arrogant as he is powerful

Don't know, mate. He struck me as pretty arrogant in BG2 already.

Grond0

Kurona said:

There's also the matter of difficulty. SoD enemies are smart -- a lot smarter than the average BG2 foe. This, coupled with the focus on hordes, make the game quite a bit harder than BG2 (aside from specific encounters).

Frankly I would recommend you to play BG2 first.

I think you might well want to consider this. SoD in terms of AI is effectively a modded form of BG and is significantly more difficult than unmodded BGEE / BG2EE. That's fine if you're a long term player of the game and used to playing with mods anyway. If, however, you're fresh to the game you might find yourself in the situation where you enjoy the gameplay in SoD, but then find BG2 something of a letdown - whereas playing them the other way round would feel much more natural in terms of the gameplay progression (even if not the storyline progression).

themazingness

Grond0 said:

Kurona said:

There's also the matter of difficulty. SoD enemies are smart -- a lot smarter than the average BG2 foe. This, coupled with the focus on hordes, make the game quite a bit harder than BG2 (aside from specific encounters).

Frankly I would recommend you to play BG2 first.

I think you might well want to consider this. SoD in terms of AI is effectively a modded form of BG and is significantly more difficult than unmodded BGEE / BG2EE. That's fine if you're a long term player of the game and used to playing with mods anyway. If, however, you're fresh to the game you might find yourself in the situation where you enjoy the gameplay in SoD, but then find BG2 something of a letdown - whereas playing them the other way round would feel much more natural in terms of the gameplay progression (even if not the storyline progression).

I think I'll be fine as far as that goes. That is a great tip though! I have a feeling that I'll like SoD for the gameplay, but not so much the story whereas I'll love BG2's story.

I'm very picky about writing, but the good thing about games is I can excuse them if they have something else to make up for it. And if SoD has good tactical gameplay, I'm excited.

kansasbarbarian

I like sod I think it does a good job Bridging the games

DJKajuru

The only significant change that you may feel is the extra XP that you can make in SoD , as you might earn about 300.000 xp during the whole expansion and it means that the first and second chapters of SoA *might* be easier . On the other hand, SoD has good fights so you'll have worked hard for your extra XP.

Papa_Lou

I suggest going through the games as intended. BGEE - SoD - BG2EE - ToB.

I played through that way for the very first time, having only kind of touched the original BG as a young child. I didn't feel spoiled or negatively impacted by the time I reached BG2 at all. Like others said, the only way SoD spoils anything, is if you already know what takes place in BG2. And at that point, is it even considered a spoiler anymore?

When I first played, I had no idea what to expect from BG2, even after playing SoD. So, no, it doesn't spoil anything.

Now, with all that being said, just play the games however you want. An interesting thing about these forums is that we've all got our own opinions on topics related to this, so at the end of the day, just do what feels right to you. And then come back and bicker like old ladies with the rest of us.

Kurona

Papa_Lou said:

Now, with all that being said, just play the games however you want. An interesting thing about these forums is that we've all got our own opinions on topics related to this, so at the end of the day, just do what feels right to you. And then come back and bicker like old ladies with the rest of us.

The world would be a boring place indeed if everyone always agreed on everything.

brunardo

I thought it did a great job without spoiling BG2 for new players

BelgarathMTH

Kurona said:

The world would be a boring place indeed if everyone always agreed on everything.

Is it ironic that I clicked "agree" on this?

Dev6

Papa_Lou said:

I suggest going through the games as intended. BGEE - SoD - BG2EE - ToB.

I played through that way for the very first time, having only kind of touched the original BG as a young child. I didn't feel spoiled or negatively impacted by the time I reached BG2 at all. Like others said, the only way SoD spoils anything, is if you already know what takes place in BG2. And at that point, is it even considered a spoiler anymore?

When I first played, I had no idea what to expect from BG2, even after playing SoD. So, no, it doesn't spoil anything.

Now, with all that being said, just play the games however you want. An interesting thing about these forums is that we've all got our own opinions on topics related to this, so at the end of the day, just do what feels right to you. And then come back and bicker like old ladies with the rest of us.

I second Papa Lou's opinion on this.
I played BG for the very first time in my life last year, loved and finished it. Waited a week or two for the release of SoD, loved and finished that, then played BG2 also for the very first time.
I didn't feel like SoD spoiled anything at all. I recognize that it has a lot of foreshadowing of BG2 but you wouldn't know it if you hadn't played it before.
I also don't think the extra EXP from playing SoD made the beginning of BG2 exactly "easy", but unlike most people on this forum I haven't been playing the games for almost 20 years so I can see where they're coming from.

Rawgrim

It doesn't add spoilers. But it does spoil the BG2 story by adding plot-holes and contradictions.

Matthieu

themazingness said:

I read somewhere that Dragonspear spoils some of BG2's story because it connects the two games. Would you forumites recommend playing Baldur's Gate 2 first? I never got the chance to back in the day, so I don't want to ruin it.

If the spoilers are minor, I'm not too worried about it.

I spoils the very beginning of the game. Basicly tells you you're kidnapped and sent to Amn. Things you can know after 5 minutes of playing BG2.

themazingness

Matthieu said:

themazingness said:

I read somewhere that Dragonspear spoils some of BG2's story because it connects the two games. Would you forumites recommend playing Baldur's Gate 2 first? I never got the chance to back in the day, so I don't want to ruin it.

If the spoilers are minor, I'm not too worried about it.

I spoils the very beginning of the game. Basicly tells you you're kidnapped and sent to Amn. Things you can know after 5 minutes of playing BG2.

Kind of. I wouldn't call that a spoiler though. I've finished SoD, and started BGII. All SoD does is shows you how it happens, and it doesn't even explain what happens. It's more of a transition than a spoiler.

UnderstandMouseMagic

themazingness said:

Matthieu said:

themazingness said:

I read somewhere that Dragonspear spoils some of BG2's story because it connects the two games. Would you forumites recommend playing Baldur's Gate 2 first? I never got the chance to back in the day, so I don't want to ruin it.

If the spoilers are minor, I'm not too worried about it.

I spoils the very beginning of the game. Basicly tells you you're kidnapped and sent to Amn. Things you can know after 5 minutes of playing BG2.

Kind of. I wouldn't call that a spoiler though. I've finished SoD, and started BGII. All SoD does is shows you how it happens, and it doesn't even explain what happens. It's more of a transition than a spoiler.

Now SOD exists, the knowledge can't be unknown.
SOD has already informed you that there is a creepy, hooded guy with an immediately recognisable voice, far too interested in what you are. Far too knowledgeable about the future, far too knowledgeable about the way BG2 will actually pan out.

That cannot compare with the shock of how BG2 starts if you came uninformed from BG, the experience has been affected.

Of course it doesn't matter in the long run, BG2 is still an outstanding game. But I personally do not understand or appreciate why the developers of SOD thought it was acceptable that they affect something they didn't create.

jsaving

Well, foreshadowing has a long and storied tradition in BG/BG2 whether you are talking about the Candlekeep chanters, Elminster, or even an NPC named Foreshadow, just to list a few. Given the massive spoilers in BG1, it hardly seems like a huge departure for SoD's Hooded Figure to vaguely foreshadow what might transpire in the future.

Also -- I'm pretty sure the whole point of SoD was to explain how CHARNAME got from the end of BG1 to the beginning of BG2. Unless you think CHARNAME got captured randomly at the beginning of BG2, there had to be some explanation for why CHARNAME got noticed by Irenicus and how that ultimately resulted in CHARNAME's capture. If anything, I wish the devs had done more that was directly tied to BG2 rather than mostly emphasizing the side issue of Caelar's quest.

Zaghoul

It is hard to say if it spoiled anything as I played SoD already having played BG2 many times.

For me, at least, I enjoyed having the extra adventure and the foreshadowing, before going into BG2. The first time I got into BG2 after running through SoD, BG2 almost seemed to feel different, in a strange but nice way(at least at the start of BG2).

Papa_Lou

UnderstandMouseMagic said:

Now SOD exists, the knowledge can't be unknown.
SOD has already informed you that there is a creepy, hooded guy with an immediately recognisable voice, far too interested in what you are. Far too knowledgeable about the future, far too knowledgeable about the way BG2 will actually pan out.

That cannot compare with the shock of how BG2 starts if you came uninformed from BG, the experience has been affected.

Perhaps that's the case for veteran players. Or, players who knew the games pre-SoD. However, the entire EE series was my first introduction to the BG games, and that included playing SoD before BG2 (unless you count watching my dad play the first game when I was like, four.)

I didn't get the same feelings you're talking about. The entire story left me feeling pretty shocked, and the events in SoD didn't diminish the shock factor of waking up in Irenicus' dungeon. I purposely avoided any sort of spoilers online, as I do with any new game I play.

Of course, you and I have fairly different histories with these games, it seems. I've only been playing them for a good part of two years.

But, speaking for newcomers to the series, I don't think those same feelings you mention will be present in the minds of someone unfamiliar with the games. As an experienced BG1/2 player, you can see the foreshadowing used in SoD, just like you can see the foreshadowing in BG1. However, someone who has never played the games before wouldn't be able to pick up on them, unless they've thoroughly read a walkthrough or watched a playthrough before playing the games themselves.

So I'd argue that it certainly can compare to the original shock value. I imagine you and I both had fairly similar reactions when first waking up in Irenicus' dungeon, regardless of whether or not SoD existed at the time.

fateless

Honestly. I never found waking up in Irenicus dungeon as the biggest shock in the world. Waking up in a jail or prison or dungeon at the start of a major adventure and finding people known or unknown there is a common beginning in RPG's. An easy way to get people together to have that initial bonding experience that makes the party stick together for the rest of it.

The Beginning of BG2 always struck me as a real strong middle ground approach to both a stand alone beginning for those that didn't play BG1 and are starting fresh and those that were returning to the series to be reintroduced to some of their old friends while Starting up a whole new Grand Quest. I haven't finished SoD yet but it just seems to be that nice solid middle now between the first quest and the BG2 Quest in telling you about the quest that happened in between that bridged the gap between them that was literally almost unmentioned and non-existant before.

I feel like I'm now getting the whole story of the BhaalSpawn that rose up above the others.

My only wish is that SoD and BG2's Opening took more into account the party I chose to get there, although SoD does some work to mitigate this. This was always the biggest lurch for me between BG1 and BG2. Specially if I've played through BG1 with a primarily evil party(Because a couple of the "evil" characters are the most interesting or coolest or just plain best at their role).

Xavioria

I've played through SoA after playing through SoD and while I wouldn't say that it spoils anything, I would say it kind of taints the SoA play through a little because no one really talks about the events of SoD, which would be fine except some of those people traveled with you and act a bit off

The continuity is a little broken

Zaghoul

@Xavioria For me SoD makes BG2 feel somewhat new going in, without spoiling anything but I agree it would have been a nice touch (but add time for release) to adjust BG2 a little to reflect the addition of the SoD ' in between' adventure.

I imagine though, the good folks at BEAMDOG probably saw the villagers with torches and battering rams biting at the bit to get SoD out ASAP.

tbone1

They probably saw lots of paperwork getting WotC to agree to new content in BG2. Just a guess, but based on what I heard about the contract, it wouldn't surprise me.