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Does SoD spoil BG2?

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Comments

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,311
    Grond0 said:

    Kurona said:

    There's also the matter of difficulty. SoD enemies are smart -- a lot smarter than the average BG2 foe. This, coupled with the focus on hordes, make the game quite a bit harder than BG2 (aside from specific encounters).

    Frankly I would recommend you to play BG2 first.

    I think you might well want to consider this. SoD in terms of AI is effectively a modded form of BG and is significantly more difficult than unmodded BGEE / BG2EE. That's fine if you're a long term player of the game and used to playing with mods anyway. If, however, you're fresh to the game you might find yourself in the situation where you enjoy the gameplay in SoD, but then find BG2 something of a letdown - whereas playing them the other way round would feel much more natural in terms of the gameplay progression (even if not the storyline progression).
    If you're a new player, you could always play the game on an easier difficulty like Normal mode, in which the enemy AI isn't as good.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 326
    edited June 16
    Before the EE's were released I used to play the old game always as BGT (i.e. the two games made into one and played on the BG2 engine/GUI with a short transition from onr game to the other.) The kidnapping scene at SoD end is taken directly from old BGT. This relatively aprupt transition has now been filled with life by SoD.
    Since I always felt that those two games should be played as one continuos game with all the flashback and foreshadowing across the individual parts, SoD does a fine job. The today equivalent to BGT (much more improved on the EE basis) is now EET - one game covering BG1 - SoD - BG2 - ToB. You have your protagonist and companions that move with you through that sequence (some you loose on the journey others you pick up enroute). In this sequence, SoD has its place where it is in the sequence of events.
    It bridges the gap that was formerly there and makes things more logical - the hero becomes known to the world including the fact he/she is a bhaalspawn. This attracts attention, Alaundo's prophesy is known in all parts of the Realms after all. A hooded man is one of them, your flight from Baldur's Gate gets things in motion. Waking up in the dungeon is still what it always was at least when you came from BG1. Once you get your senses back and realise where you are, the transition makes sense. The only thing SoD changes for BG2 is that it gives more detail about how Irenicus came to select you and your party (this was previously left to your imagination unless you played a mod called Drizzt Saga in BG1 which had the hooded man originally).
    BTW when you play the trilogy with EET combining the parts, you have the option to install mods that provide a consistent AI/spell/rule system across the game as well.

    Does SoD spoil BG2? >>>> No.
    ThacoBellGrond0JuliusBorisov
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 295
    To my understanding SoD Doesn't reveal anything about BG2 that isn't revealed in Chateau Irenicus.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 326
    Pokota said:

    To my understanding SoD Doesn't reveal anything about BG2 that isn't revealed in Chateau Irenicus.

    Without SoD (or having played BG1 before), you may still think that Irenicus kidnapping of you and your party was random or coincidence and not the result of careful observation and pre-planning. But latest when he appears in person and directly adresses you and Imoen you will know this for sure. And there are hints enough (the djinni, Rielev, Malaaq) if you take your time.
    semiticgod
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 612

    Pokota said:

    To my understanding SoD Doesn't reveal anything about BG2 that isn't revealed in Chateau Irenicus.

    Without SoD (or having played BG1 before), you may still think that Irenicus kidnapping of you and your party was random or coincidence and not the result of careful observation and pre-planning. But latest when he appears in person and directly adresses you and Imoen you will know this for sure. And there are hints enough (the djinni, Rielev, Malaaq) if you take your time.
    It turns Irenicus into a moron, though. He wants the PCs soul for himself. When he frames the PC for murder, the PC might very well end up executed. If that happens....his plan fails. When he does stuff like this in SoD, basically working against himself, his legacy as one of the best villains ever made takes a steep dive.

    He also seems to have dream powers in SoD. I wonder where those came from. He doesn't have them in BG2. Those dream sequences in BG2, as we all know, isn't involving Irenicus. It is Bhaal using the image of Irenicus and Imoen in order to push the PC to embrace his bloodline. I guess the writer didn't catch that bit?
    UnderstandMouseMagic
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 326
    edited June 25
    Rawgrim said:

    Pokota said:

    To my understanding SoD Doesn't reveal anything about BG2 that isn't revealed in Chateau Irenicus.

    Without SoD (or having played BG1 before), you may still think that Irenicus kidnapping of you and your party was random or coincidence and not the result of careful observation and pre-planning. But latest when he appears in person and directly adresses you and Imoen you will know this for sure. And there are hints enough (the djinni, Rielev, Malaaq) if you take your time.
    It turns Irenicus into a moron, though. He wants the PCs soul for himself. When he frames the PC for murder, the PC might very well end up executed. If that happens....his plan fails. When he does stuff like this in SoD, basically working against himself, his legacy as one of the best villains ever made takes a steep dive.

    He also seems to have dream powers in SoD. I wonder where those came from. He doesn't have them in BG2. Those dream sequences in BG2, as we all know, isn't involving Irenicus. It is Bhaal using the image of Irenicus and Imoen in order to push the PC to embrace his bloodline. I guess the writer didn't catch that bit?
    Possible interpretations, even I disagree with both of them.

    The risk of PC really being sentenced for murder is minimal. His reputation and role for the city is still too strong. Eltan's appearance and ranting at court is showing the Duke as a minority opinion who is grieved by the loss of his daughter but not supported by the rest of the Dukes. The court is more about how much of his glory the former hero can restore or not and under which conditions he leaves Amn. It is pretty clear that this is about which is the route out of Amn rather than can he/she escape or not. In the context Irenicus plan seems to be rather well-calculated, using the rising prejudice against that *bhaalspawn* hero already shown in some cutscenes of Amn and giving him the extra push to get PC to be exiled (The *Exile* Irenicus knows best how to do this). The murder trial is a political problem and a guilty PC would give the Dukes who entrusted him/her with BG's fate a big problem, they try to avoid any decision as long as possible. The PC *disappearing* is the best option they have without losing their faces themselves.

    The protagonist has dreams all over the trilogy, Bhaal, Imoen, Ellesime and more. Some may interpreted as coming from his/her own subconsciesness. I remember that Irenicus later clearly denies to ever have given any dreams to the protagonist, but I am not sure if this is vanilla conversation or added by a mod. Dreams are a continuous element throughout the game to provide additional information.
    Grond0tbone1ThacoBellsemiticgod
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 945
    Of course all the dreams comes from Charname's subconcious, all dreams do. And it is ambiguous in BG2 where some came from but that adds, rather than subtracts, to the idea that Irenicus has seriously hurt/affected you and driven you half nuts.

    SOD has muddied the waters a lot about where the dreams come from. It should be impossible for Irenicus to appear in the dreams in SOD as you have never met him, don't know who is is and he is certainly not important to you.

    I have said this over and over.

    SOD, when using Irenicus, deals and is written from the perspective that BG2 has happened. That's why it spoils BG2. It relies on the player recognising the voice, it relies on the player going along with the idea that the "hooded man" is sinister/important ect. rather than being one of the randomers you have met throughout BG.

    For instance, it would make far more sense if you built from BG, that the hooded man turned out to be Winski Perorate. With Sarevok dead, he turns his attention to Charname.

    It's blatent what happened IMO, they got the voice actor late and unexpectedly, and inserted a bunch of nonsense into SOD to use his popularity.

    That's OK as far as it goes, money does make the world go round after all. But spending time justifying the cock up that resulted is really a waste of time as it never came from any artistic/creative angle.



  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 363
    Thing is that Irenicus has no reason whatsoever to frame CHARNAME.
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 326
    edited June 25



    SOD, when using Irenicus, deals and is written from the perspective that BG2 has happened. That's why it spoils BG2. It relies on the player recognising the voice, it relies on the player going along with the idea that the "hooded man" is sinister/important ect. rather than being one of the randomers you have met throughout BG.

    For instance, it would make far more sense if you built from BG, that the hooded man turned out to be Winski Perorate. With Sarevok dead, he turns his attention to Charname.

    Irenicus in SoD works regardless of whether you know BG2 or not.
    - If you know it, then Irenicus did not just pop out of the box at BG2 start but has been lurking in the background and waiting for his chance already for some time. For the repeated player it was never hidden that SoD was the missing link between BG1 and BG2 and it works as that.
    - If you don't know BG2 yet, you become aware of some new *interest* in you during SoD who may or may not be connected to Caelar. At SoD final part it becomes apparent that the hooded man plays his own role and is foreshadowing the next events.
    - And Winski is defeated and dying when you left him. You may suspect him as you may suspect someone connected with Caelar, it does not matter. When it comes to the visit in prison, you know it's a player for the next round.
    Grond0ThacoBellPapa_Loumegamike15
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,339
    @Rawgrim "It turns Irenicus into a moron, though. He wants the PCs soul for himself. When he frames the PC for murder, the PC might very well end up executed. If that happens....his plan fails. When he does stuff like this in SoD, basically working against himself, his legacy as one of the best villains ever made takes a steep dive."

    This argument completely falls apart when you remember that

    Irenicus is a freaking archmage that almost succeeded in reaching godhood. The idea that a handful of, at best, low to middle leveled children can in any way kill charname without Irenicus allowing it is preposterous.
    Papa_Lou
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 945
    How does Irenicus work in SOD?

    He's a plot device, nothing more. You find out nothing about him (which of course has to happen because of BG2).
    It's utter nonsense having him turn up lurking in the background apropos of nothing.

    He's here, there and everywhere, a bit like the Scarlet Pimpernal or as it's BG, one could honestly exclaim when he turns up,
    "nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition"
    it is that ridiculous.

    It's a wonder he didn't start muttering about "midichlorians", it is that level of clumsy.
    And so insulting to the players.
    ArtonaAndreaColombo
  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 1,757
    edited June 25
    Like this is anything new. Elminster. That is all.
    Papa_LouThacoBell
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 431
    Well Elminster is a harper at the end of the day. Being intrusive do-gooders is kind of their thing and probably in-character^^ And Gorion was a harper as well, so you could make that brief connection.

    I dislike harpers in general, but Elminster is alright imo.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 754
    Abou the OP: I wish it did.
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