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Backstab Fighter/Mage/Thief build?

So i founded bunch of guidelines about F/M/T, all in regards of powergaming and full head on.I plan to go solo.
I was wondering if you could approach this in different manner, sadly i already created my character without proper research.I realy want to backstab people, cast invisible and backstab them again.Here's my build:
Male
Elf
Lawful Evil

18/86
19
17
10
10

Short swords++
Single-weapons style++


1.Was short swords bad choice?I wanted some weapon to backstab with.And since elf got racial for swords...
2.What count as swords toward Elf racial bonus?
3.Since i got only two quick slots, should i invest in Long bows?Focus my spells for sneaky kills, and let range damage with my bow?
4.Should i instead of bow fill 2nd slot with some sword for dealing damage?And what type?
5.Was single wp style bad choice?Because backstab works only with fastest weapon, and Ac is nice.Also, i am kinda fed up with dual wield.
6.Can i focus on hide/move proficiency first?And then spread it to traps and stealing?And when i should stop investing?
6.Any advices about gear?Or must have spells?

Thanks!


Artemius_I

Comments

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 204
    edited April 3
    1. The problem with short swords is that some enemies are immune to piercing weapons.
    2. Longswords also count towards the elf bonus and they're slashing weapons, which means they'll hit more enemies. And, frankly, longswords are better throughout the series.
    3. + 4. A ranged option is always great. Elves get bonuses with long and short bows. You can snipe from the shadows. You only need to put one point into the skill, really. You can have a ranged weapon in one quick slot and sword in the other.
    5. Single weapon style is fine. It gives you an extra chance for critical hits which, for a f/m/t is way more important than the armor class bonus (you'll have defensive spell buffs). But you only need one point in single weapon style, as the 2nd point adds nothing to the critical hit bonus. Dual wielding is incredibly powerful, of course, but unless you've got difficulty mods cranked up you really don't need that much power. It's fun to do something different, and as a backstabber you will notice the increase in critical hits over the long haul.
    6. Many potential strategies. Start as a sneak and then eventually put skills elsewhere, or start as a ranged fighter/spell caster who opens locks and finds traps, then gradually becomes a sneak, too. IMHO for BG 1, if you get your hide in shadows and move silently up to 80 or 90 points a piece (with gear, see below) you will be an effective stealth character in dark conditions (outdoors at night, dungeons, etc.). You can enhance this later in the series. Another thing to think about is, as a mage, using magic to provide your stealth. Invisibility level 2 spell and ultimately improved invisibility level 4 spell, though I'm not sure if you can get level 4 spells in BG1 leveling 3 classes. I wouldn't worry about picking pockets in BG1, AFAIK there isn't enough to steal to justify putting points in it. And in BG2 you can just shotgun a few potions of master thievery before going on a klepto spree. Open locks/find traps - ultimately, 100 points a piece gets you through the whole series, though there are players who ignore these skills to some extent and are content to avoid or walk through traps and take it on the chin, so to speak.
    7. Must have gear in BG1 : boots of stealth. Must have spells? Defensive spells like mirror image, and the level 3 spell haste to wreak backstabbing havoc (backstab, use haste to run around corners and hide again).

    I've probably missed some things....

    Edit: P.S. Setting traps will of course be very handy in solo play. It never needs to go over 100 points. I don't know if I'd put too many points in it early as you only get one trap per day at the start.
    AerakarSkatan
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 430
    I've usually gone with the weapons that have the quickest speed factor as they strike sooner and if a backstab is missed the better chance at having time to try again before the HinS turns you visible. Course you need a good backup weapon to better backstab some enemies so I usually add in club proficiency for that.
    On a side note, Rogue Rebalancing offers an upgrade to the SS of backstabbing that is pretty darn awesome for thief classes.
    AerakarSkatanNoobacca
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 347
    edited April 5
    The Sound & Silence mod items also add a nifty +2 short sword (also +1 AC and +1 poison save) at the carnival in BG. It is about 8k gp. I usually only install the items from that mod as I am not a big fan of kit changes.

    With those 2 short swords and also the vanilla whistling sword, I find short swords decent for BGEE. Without those mods though short swords are somewhat lackluster in BG1 (but still ok!) and long swords would be stronger because of the easily obtainable Varscona.

    I would agree with the short bow suggestion. A ranged would really round out your combat ability and the Elf bow bonus + the great arrow selection make short bow the way to go I would think.

    If you plan to take your character into SoA, I think short swords are a great choice as they are good early/mid game. By then you could add another weapon type to your repertoire as well.

    Quarterstaffs are also good for backstabbing/combat and there are some great ones in both games.
    SkatanZaghoulOrlonKronsteen
  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 2,135
    Qstaffs are the best backstabbing weapons IMHO. In BG1 you have staff of striking and staffmace+2. The latter offers the best singlehand damage available to a thief I think, 2D4+2. After breaking stealth you can still tough it out in melee using a shield, helmet and either elven chainmail or robe of archmagi for AC5 base. Never played a FMT so don't even know if they can reach level 7 in BG1 for that half APR though.

    Short swords are often underrated. You can easily get a +2 in BG1 fairly early and then it gives one of the very few options for a +3 in the end. There are very few immune to piercing damage (are there any in BG1?) but often I feel the enemies immune or resistant to piercing are also often immune to BS so you will use a diff strat vs them anyways. In SoD I'm not sure if there are good shortswords. Haven't used them there. In BG2 there are plent of realy good shortswords and you can get a +4 version almost immedeately. This is only really rivaled by the qstaff who also offers a +4 version equally early.

    Longswords are versatile and there are always good versions throughout the games. There aren't that many to choose from in BG1, but Varscona is great of course.

    Don't disregard daggers either. Nowaydas with the (unintended) fix that makes thowing daggers being equipped while you have a weapon in the offhand act as speedweapons you can easily reach max APR also with a multiclass. Using the boomerang dagger, which you can get at the start of BG2, gives you a +2 dagger with 2 APR in the mainhand. Dagger spec + fighter level gives another ARP and kundane or belm in offhand gives another. Later on you can wield the firetooth dagger the same way, an excellen +3 dagger with 2D4 base damage + firedamage. Also, normal poison throwing daggers used to be a great counter to mages with PFMW and PFNA. I haven't tried it recently, so not entirely sure it works still but the daggers used to count as normal weapon and not arrows and the poison used to go through stoneskin etc.
    AerakarOrlonKronsteen
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 347
    I agree with everything @Skatan wrote. Also, with quarterstaffs there is the +3 Aule's staff available in Ulgoth's beard for about7-8k gp . That and THS works very well for backstabbing in BG and this staff is available early, so you could use it until you get the staff-mace or staff of striking which are both later game weapons.

    I just ran a bounty hunter through BG and am now in SoD and he used quarterstaff as his main melee weapon throughout BG, only switching to the +3 short sword/Kiel's buckler towards the end of BG and in SoD (and now using the staff of striking for backstabs, +3 short sword for general combat with a magical buckler). Quarterstaff is an outstanding backstabbing weapon and you could even add it with your short sword proficiency as you then have a blunt weapon style also. Clubs are also possible of course and are complimented by SWS, but QSs beat clubs in availability of strong weapon versions in all 3 games. Having a blunt weapon style available is important for SoD and SoA/ToB, but not so critical in BG only.

    I would add that with a F/M/T if you take the QS/THS route you can also then use two-handed swords for added versatility later, not for backstabbing but general combat.

    Frankly since you already have 2 pips in SS and also SWS, I would consider using an editor like EEKeeper to change one SWS pip to short bow so you have a versatile ranged weapon already. Then I would consider adding a blunt weapon, e.g. quarterstaffs and later THS or clubs.

    If you do not want to use an editor, then two in SWS is fine. I would probably take short bow as my next weapon for a ranged option, or even dagger (taking into account the comments above on usefulness of daggers as a speed weapon/throwing weapon in SoA).
    Skatan
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 347
    On short swords in SoD, there is another interesting +3 one there about mid-game plus a smattering of decent +2 ones with some abilities in the game. Resistance to piercing though becomes more noticeable with some of the undead mobs in the first part of the game, but less so mid-game (thus far!).

    As noted above, I think short swords is a fine choice and will become more so if you go into SoD and later SoA.
    SkatanZaghoulOrlonKronsteen
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 250
    I will note that if you're not planning on specializing in a ranged weapon, just don't put a proficiency point in it: a Warrior only gets a -2 penalty to hit, and as an elf you're recovering 1 of those points anyways.
    abacusSkatanAerakar
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 204
    Re: short swords, some jellies are immune in BG1 and skeleton warriors are extremely resistant. I can't remember if there are more than that in BG1 but there are in BG2. You can survive with them for sure, and they're a great aesthetic and RP choice, but considering that the OP is planning to play solo he might want a weapon that hits more enemies and/or has more effects. Personally, if I was going to take a piercing weapon I'd take daggers for the dagger of venom and for some of the cool daggers in BG2 (mentioned by @Aerakar ). Also, longswords are just better throughout the whole series (so are daggers, IMO).

    Quarterstaffs: they are indeed great mechanically (with 2-handed ws), but for many players (myself included) they don't cut it from an RP and aesthetic standard. Some have even made the case that only daggers or shortswords should be capable of backstabbing use. It's an interesting debate. To me using quarterstaffs just seems wrong, but to each their own.

    Bow proficiency: the elf bonus will indeed help minimize the penalty of going without proficiency, but it's still a 2 point differential. An elf with a point in bows will hit significantly more often. The question is whether that's worth it when it comes to your overall build. Personally, I'd take it, especially if playing solo. It can make the early game easier. Then again, you may wish you had that point back later...
    Aerakar
  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 326
    Quarterstaff , Quarterstaff and ...Quarterstaff...



    -no crushing resistant enemy's.

    -as for BG1 a "cheap" +3 can be bought in Ulgoth's Beard. setting you up with your end-gear weapon asap.
    - use first weapon pips for shortbow, range is in BG1 wastly superior and you can easy get some levels until your sneak skills are solid, not to mention most enemy's are not worth a backstab at this levels.


    -as for BG2 Staff of Magi for Combat, and cheap escape mechanic (note you cannot backstab with it)
    - Staff of the Ram has the highest possible backstab dmg and even a +6 enchant in the end giving that little extra THAC0

    you can pick apart any group with sneaking in , staff of the ram backstab-exploding one enemy , staff of magi invisibility away , re-stealth and repeat until all enemy's are gone.

    throw in the Fighters THAC0 and extra APR and the mages Shenanigans and you are a god.

    thespaceAerakar
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 430
    I know quarterstaffs get big pluses for backstabing but seems a little strange to me as well (doable but a little strange) Now clubs, just something satisfying about a head clubbin' smack from behind (BIP!) thing with the club. Or one right across the cheek to the enemy from the front (Stitch THAT, Jimmi).
    OrlonKronsteenAerakar
  • St. AndrewSt. Andrew Member Posts: 85
    edited April 6
    Wait you can backstab with clubs? Just not maces and flails right? I was going to say to the OP, you can skip out on lockpick to save points. You get a knock (lockpick) spell at mage level 2 and can use potions in the early game. Anything beneath 50 lockpick is pointless since you can force the locks with your strength too.
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 250
    All melee weapons natively available to Thieves can be used for backstabs: Clubs, quarterstaffs, Short sword, Long sword, Katana, Scimitar, and Dagger.
    AerakarZaghoulJuliusBorisovNoobacca
  • St. AndrewSt. Andrew Member Posts: 85
    What is the bonus, like 1 or 2 thAC0? I never found it mattered when playing an assassin... that guy couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 430
    +4 bonus to THAC0, so it helps with anybody that can HiS and with any weapon used by them, even if it does not get the damage multiplied.
    AerakarNoobaccathespace
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