What would happen if TNO was cremated? (spoilers)

PugPug

His tattoo says not to tell anyone what happens to him or he'll end up in the crematorium. What if he did?

Were there limits to Ravel's spell? It has been so long that I do not remember if anything about it is said.

I would imagine flesh growing to cover charred bone after a fire. If he was burned to ash, would it reconstitute? What if it were scattered?

Teflon

In PST original manual there is something can eat *you*.
[Spoiler] 5. Being burned to ashes—no coming back from this sort of demise.[/spoiler]

Gallenger

I think that's it - it is possible for you to die permanently in various ways in the game as it is.

I think with cremation it's more of a "makes sense so let's not find out" kind of thing.

Teflon

I heard who can kill TNO permanently is [Spoiler] IGNUS but I have never let him do so in melee fight So I cannot tell how he could do that.I talked him a lot but no selection appeared yet oyner than teach mage spells like eye finger gut smoldering...[/spoiler] Anyone know how?

procco

Teflon said:

I heard who can kill TNO permanently is [Spoiler] IGNUS but I have never let him do so in melee fight So I cannot tell how he could do that.I talked him a lot but no selection appeared yet oyner than teach mage spells like eye finger gut smoldering...[/spoiler] Anyone know how?

Haven't tried it, but can you just attack him and turn him hostile, then just stand there and take the "heat?"

Queegon

Teflon said:

I heard who can kill TNO permanently is [Spoiler] IGNUS but I have never let him do so in melee fight So I cannot tell how he could do that.I talked him a lot but no selection appeared yet oyner than teach mage spells like eye finger gut smoldering...[/spoiler] Anyone know how?

I did try it. TNO died and didn't respawn. The screen also got locked on a black screen with just UI visible. No "you failed" box. Menu was accessible.
Yes, probably a bug.

Cremating can kill you as it's not possible to regenrate from ash and dust. Lady of Pain can kill you, so can Lothar (that's what the box says anyway - the game ends as soon as you attack him).

PugPug

It's all a little weird. How can someone die without their mortality? I guess he just remains in whatever the "mostly dead" state is between lives.

It would allow him to "die" without being dragged to the lower planes. Should have been the goal all along!

Or just have a companion reset the Modron Maze with him in it. I did that to Ignus. He still showed up at the ending.

Kamigoroshi

Physically becoming a pile of ash won't neccessarly "kill" TNO. While it would be the end of his humanity, chances are he'd still come back as... something else.

The real question is:

if TNO becomes decapitated... will he become a second Morte? Or a planewalking Dullahan?

PugPug

Kamigoroshi said:

Physically becoming a pile of ash won't neccessarly "kill" TNO. While it would be the end of his humanity, chances are he'd still come back as... something else.

The real question is:

if TNO becomes decapitated... will he become a second Morte? Or a planewalking Dullahan?

Like a specter of some kind? Or an ash golem-beast?

Or the third option, head and body would reunite if joined together, but he'd stay "dead" if they remained separated.

Nimran

I am now picturing TNO with his head on backwards.

OlvynChuru

I have a hard time imagining that cremation could kill the Nameless One permanently. I mean, if it's possible, then why is he still around? His past incarnations have done such horrible things that I'd expect he'd have been thoroughly burned many times by now.

Phoenixes are able to spring back to life from their ashes. Why wouldn't the Nameless One be able to?

Although Lothar may very well have the power to permanently kill the Nameless One, he doesn't. If you attack him, he kills you instantly but then you come back to life (note that this is my experience from attacking him in the non-enhanced edition, so I don't know if it has changed).

As far as I know, there is nothing Ignus can do in-game that can permanently kill the Nameless One. While it's true that Ignus can permanently reduce the Nameless One's maximum health, there is a limit to how low a character's max HP can be in these games: they can't have lower max HP than their level. Even if you use mods to reduce a character's maximum HP to lower than their level, the game automatically sets it back.

If the Nameless One were to be decapitated, his head would grow back.

taclane

OlvynChuru said:

If the Nameless One were to be decapitated, his head would grow back.

Or would his head grow a new body?

Any experienced necromancers around? I'm not sure my local library has any ancient tomes that I can consult for answers. Well, not anymore... since the, uh "incident"...

Queegon

taclane said:

OlvynChuru said:

If the Nameless One were to be decapitated, his head would grow back.

Or would his head grow a new body?

His head would grow a body and the decapitated body would grow a head. There would be two Nameless ones. It's super-effective. Transcendent one faints.

AndreaColombo

Here's my take on it.

We know TNO's body regenerates, and that

another's life is claimed instead of his when he dies, that his may be returned to him.

Now, the key to what follows is that cremation would not kill TNO; it would merely render his body (or "shell", as the game would put it) incapable of regenerating. The difference is pivotal, because TNO's immortality is not just a body capable of regenerating wounds—it extends to his spirit and consciousness, albeit with the side effect of memory loss

that comes from Ravel's ritual being flawed, as we learn in the game.

If his body can no longer regenerate, his spirit/consciousness doesn't suddenly cease to exist; however, it doesn't have a shell to which to return. What happens to it can be reasonably surmised from this dialog TNO can have with Awaiting-Death in The Gathering Dust bar:

This appears to be the state in which his spirit/consciousness finds itself in-between deaths, while waiting for the body to regenerate and be able to host it again. If the body could not regenerate, the spirit would likely be stuck in that unpleasant state, catharsis forever out of its reach.


That's why he wants to avoid cremation, even though

at first it might seem like the quickest and easiest solution to his endgame, which is dying. The problem is that simply rendering his body unable to regenerate is not, in his case, the same as dying—what happens to him is not what normally happens to people who die in the setting, and it would merely prevent him from pursuing liberation and resolution.

At least this is my interpretation.

DJKajuru

There are a couple of possibilities for permanent death in the game, such as

crossing the Lady

and the death video shows

TNO meeting Deionarra

which suggests that

maybe he becomes a spirit in the fortress of regrets, or at least stays in limbo for eternity

, a little bit different from @AndreaColombo 's theory, I guess.