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A little party help would be appreciated

jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
I've played through bgee and bg2ee multiple times with multiple partys and pc's. This time I'm taking a multi fighter/cleric (no duel class pushing please). I'm starting in bg2ee as I can't bring my self to play through bgee again it's just to boring. Will this hinder my playthrough as I won't get the tomes, extra exp, and helm of baldarun.

Now main question my party will be:
Pc fighter/cleric dw flails
Minsc dw axes and maces --> ( Mr tob possibly)
Keldorn 2 hander for you know what (mr tob possibly)
Jaheria scimitar and shield or staves/ spears undecided
Jan needed for thieving and back up mage plus I want some traps

Now the real question rp aside do i take nalia through till the end or switch for imoen I've beat the game so taking imoen for that is irrelevant I honestly just do not know who is the strongwe npc as a mage. Nalia will be imho a little more advanced as I have spent so much time with her and her spellbook will be tailored to my needs. I'm stumped.

Other possible issues I have is know one using long swords or war hammers which I would like to have. Katanas I can live without I find them over rated anyways. This will be my final playthrough for a bit as I want to play some other games and want to make the most of it.

Was thinking about 2 created chars from multi player and 4 npcs but on that note i would probably add a fighter/thief aswell but then I'm short a caster due to not needing jan. This way I could add in a dw for long swords and hammers or katanas.

Comments

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 161
    Helm of Balduran should be found in Irenicus' Dungeon, if you have the console enabled then just create the books and some identify scrolls and have Imoen identify for you. Made a thread with the book codes here . This assumes you do not have EEKeeper. It's not so bad starting at 89k XP, at least you level fast and the early areas are more about tactics than level/abilities.

    As for the Mage then Edwin is by far the best as a straight caster, Neera is better if you abuse the save scumming for nahal's though, if you plan to keep Jan around then both Nalia and Imoen are kind of redundant, main reason for either is to cover the bare minimum thieving requirements whilst having a non-specialist mage, but i guess Edwin has some serious issues in a good party so that limits options.

    If you are going to make 2 characters then i would recommend a mage/thief for the 2nd one, go Gnome and you get illusionist although that does restrict you from skull trap and ADHW which can be annoying, if you want to dual class then perhaps just take it to 10 as a Swashbuckler for some free AC and +hit/dam and then switch to mage, you'll level the mage to 11 pretty fast and at that point you have a Nalia/Imoen that doesn't suck :#
    jtdroleplayer
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    I just finished an evilish playthrough a few days ago aa a fighter/thief kind of want to stay away from edwin and Vic this time hence the fighter/cleric to prevent me from using Vic and jan as backup mage and thief (used a thief as a pc i like my set traps) and a main mage imoen/nalia over edwin. Not a fan of neera. haven't rolled up the pc yet still pre planning a bit I'm not set on this pc I've never played a mage variant pc could gp fighter/mage i guess and add anomen (never used him to be honest) but then gotta alter my whole team. I like to smash things as a pc lol as this will be my last play through for a while just wanna make the most of it. Looking for a very well balanced party using most of the better weapons and weapon combos a romance with jaheria and great party banter. Struggling with fitting in all these aspects.
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    Charname Fighter/Mage dw long swords and axes (do i need a apr weapon?)
    Keldorn 2 handed
    Jaheira scims
    Minsc dw maces/flails
    Yoshimo -> imoen or just nalia
    Anomen hammers or aerie
    Never used anomen and aerie is great but here leveling isn't great plus my pc would be the other mage

    This party could work covers the weapon spread efficiently shy of katanas which is ok a little light on ranged tho and would have great banter missing jan tho love is banter but could live without and no traps ( haven't figured out some of the tougher battles dragons demigorgon liches) without using traps.

    I think mazzy would be a great addition but not sure who id replace for her.

    And would this party give me strong enough weapons in the +4 range?

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 337
    This last party looks pretty strong. Personally, I'd get rid of one of the melee guys (e.g. Minsc) and replace him with a dedicated arcane caster (Nalia or Neera). And you have enough +4 weapons, I'd say.
    Charname can use Daystar (though it may not be striking as a +4 weapon in v2.3, I'm not sure); Keldorn has the Holy Avenger; Jaheira can get the +4 staff in Adventure Mart, or the +4 scimitar in Watcher's Keep; Minsc could use the Mace of Disruption +2 (which strikes as +5); Yoshimo could use Usuno's Blade from Watcher's Keep or the Short Sword of Mask; Anomen could also use the MOD +2 or Crom Faeyr.


    Giving up traps is a big loss in power for sure, but you can survive without them. Spike traps are brokenly overpowered, so it may be a good thing to give them up. There are definitely ways to beat the tough enemies you mention without traps. As for charname using an off-hand speed weapon, sure, you can do that. It will give you a significant boost in power. But, you can survive without it, too.
    jtdroleplayer
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    Taking your consideration into account I'm thinking

    Pc fighter/mage dw long swords and flails for doe the apr weapons in tob kinda looses some steam anyways doe will give me some mice resistance and it being +2 in offhand wont be to much power loss I don't think or would it?
    (Long sword scim if jaheria takes staves and mazzy axes or long sword axes and give mazzy katana for mobs who get past frontline stunning them)

    Keldorn 2 handed swords

    Jaheria staffs or duel wield scims

    Nalia pure mage with shortbow prefer this over neera and a sling. As party is primarily goody goody lol and let imoen fend for herself in spell hold

    Anomen maces and flails with shield for foa and mod for undead

    Mazzy shorty bow and axes with appropriate script find this to be a deadly combo along with a pip in single weapon for some a.c. bonus

    Mazzy keldorn and anomen will be some great banter. Jaheria for romance

    Pc jaheria-scims anomen up front
    Jaheria-staves keldorn swing overtop frontline
    Mazzy nalia ranged support
    Pc secondary mage and nalia main spell slinger.
    Anomen divine caster
    Jaheria

    Probably disregard crom as I think the pieces needed to make it would be better utilized spread across this group.

    Since I've never played without traps it'll be a good learning curve lol

    It'll be wierd playing a good aligned group with out minsc

    This group does miss out on some nice halbreds and bastard swords unfortunately but don't necessarily need them.

    Lastly I do believe I'll have to play through bgee with my pc to develop my spell book. Which I didn't want to do but I could just rush through collect tomes and spells and import to bg2ee.

    Second guessing mazzy a bit tho but I don't want valygar I would like minsc but mazzy adds the range and I definilty need someone standing back with nalia and mazzy with the script (forget what it's called) switching her from ranged to melee would offer nalia a body guard.
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 337
    The only potential problem with your latest lineup is that without Yoshimo/Imoen you're weak on the thief side. Nalia only has 60 pts in open locks and 80 in find traps. You can supplement these skills with rings and potions, but it takes some micromanagement. Just something to think about... Imoen has more points but the trade-off is she can be a few levels behind Nalia as a mage when you get her. Not necessarily the end of the world. When I use Imoen I save up some scrolls in Chapter 2 and take them along to Spellhold and load her spellbook up. That way she's at least well-developed as a caster even if her level isn't optimized.

    DOE is +3 in the Enhanced Edition. :) That and Flail of Ages makes for a lethal combo.

    I too disregard Crom Faeyr for the same reason you cited. As for halberds, you can give Keldorn points in them if you want, though until TOB it's tough to justify using them over the Holy Avenger.
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    That is true hmm guess I will take nalia till imoen wish I had room for yoshi for the exp i would get from it but o well. I do have my group sorted then pc fighter/mage keldorn jaheria anomen mazzy nalia->imoen. Now just planning pips for everyone which imho is now even more challenging then party line up haha. Just rolling my pc in bgee (currently have a 91) gonna rush through collect tomes and get my pc spell book up to par then export to bg2ee not worried about max exp in bgee there is more then enough exp in bg2ee so the sacrifice is minimal and even rushing through bgee I still think I'll have more with the import then if I just rolled in bg2ee especially with a smaller group.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    Is using mazzy the way I mentioned viable? I'm a little uncertain on her
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 337
    Mazzy can be used in so many ways. She's a lethal archer and you can develop her in any melee weapon you want. Lots of good axes, though none that are +4 or up until TOB, AFAIK. Axes are still great, though. Azuredge will enable her to wipe out undead like nobody's business. As for single weapon style, it will help her with critical hits but I usually use a sword and shield with her ( I do NOT put points into sword and shield weapon style, however - it's a waste imo). No reason you can't try single-weapon style, though. The extra crits might really add up, and her saving throws are epic so you don't really need to use, say, the Shield of Harmony on her for the immunities. Give it a try!
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 337
    Oh yeah, there's also EE Keeper, which you can use to edit your character at the start of BG2. It would save you having to go all the way through BG1 if you're really keen on starting BG2 now. I do that sometimes: just edit the character to = what they'd be at the end of BG1.
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    Just considering giving her a single weapon so she can use a script to switch from ranged to melee when someone gets close to better protect nalia/imoen but since she is deadly with a bow as is I guess whoever gets close will be a pincushion anyways haha

    Here with azure edge and anomen with mod undead will cower in fear lol

    My pc using longswords and ? Is stumping me as a fighter/mage i want dps so was considering axes katanas are good but not sure if I need darkon zerth for the extra spells as I'll be buffing/debuffing mostly and fighting plus celestial fury is great but meh sick of using it lol And robes of vecna on me or imoen I can see the benefits on both.
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    I'm playing on iPad so no editing for me unfortunately :(
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761

    Is using mazzy the way I mentioned viable? I'm a little uncertain on her

    The thing about Mazzy is that her early proficiencies really lock her into ranged attacks early, which is fine because "early" is when ranged attacks are at their most powerful. The goal is to rush and recruit her at level 8 so you can spend that level 9 proficiency point, (basically just head to Umar Hills first thing after getting out of Irenicus' dungeon, go far enough in the quest to recruit Mazzy, and then leave with her; she's fine if you don't complete the quest).

    If you do get her at level 8, she's probably the most flexible NPC in the game, build-wise. Really, any way you want to build her she'll be great. I've used her with a big 2-handed weapon on switch from her bow, (Ravager Halberd end-game is great), I've done sword and shield, (between her saves and her natural 18 dex she's arguably the best tank NPC in the game).

    My favorite is usually dual-wielding with her, especially if you choose a weapon type that has two end-game caliber weapons, (Flails for FoA plus Defender of Easthaven, scimitars for Spectral Brand and Belm, etc.) If nothing else, her one proficiency pip in short swords means it's never a bad idea to just toss Kundane in her offhand and whatever you want in her main hand.

    But I've built her all of these ways, and she works great all of these ways.
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    Hmm that's something to consider aswell leaves the axes I was planning on going with for my pc.

    Wish i could eekepper my stats the way they would be if I played bgee and imported I really don't wanna play through it again haha can someone else do it on there game on a computer and can I add it to my save game after That?
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    The way I'll be using mazzy in my teams is primarily ranged and melee when needed as I'll have my pc jaheria anomen and keldorn up front so adding mazzy to the line up there aswell i think thet will be stepping on each others toes and leaving poor immy at the back undefedned
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    One last thing I'm unsure of with this play through is who do i ditch to rotate npcs in mainly just to do planar sphere I guess at the time I want to do that I could just send keldorn off to see his family pick up valygar do the quest thenvtske keldorn back
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    edited April 21
    Long-term you're probably going to want to have Mazzy be primarily melee. Ranged weapons really fall off in ToB unless you're an Archer kit or a throwing-weapon Kensai. If you're worried about things getting crowded, 2-handed weapons have longer reach so characters can actually attack while standing directly behind another character, and the Ravager Halberd is arguably the best weapon in the entire game, so it never hurts to have someone capable of wielding it. (There are plenty of other quality halberds throughout BG2, to boot.)

    If Halberds aren't your cup of tea, the Staff of the Ram is also a fantastic 2-handed weapon, and Ixil's Spike / The Impaler are quality spears.

    Also, you don't actually have to take Valygar into the Planar Sphere. You can either kill him and take his body or, if that's a bit too extreme, recruit him into your party, have him open the door, and then kick him out again. Once the door is open, you have no further need of him.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    Pc fighter/mage dw long swords and ? Havent decidrd yet depends on if i give jaheria scims or not. Anomen maces and flails with shield alternating as needed ( can he duel wield effectively?) In the front line

    Jaheria staves and spears and keldorn carsomyr
    Swing over the front line

    Mazzy short bow with halbred when needed and nalia--> imoen short bow casting in the rear
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    Missing an axe wielder so pc with long swords and axes
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    For what it's worth, I've never been all that impressed with Long Swords in BG2/ToB. Daystar is amazing, especially for how early it's available, (assuming you're willing to brave a Lich). Flametongue is worth mentioning because it can hit pretty much enemy in the game and kill trolls, but it's a pretty lackluster sword otherwise.

    End-game, The Answerer and Angurvadal are fine, but not really on the level of the top-tier weapons in other classes. Blackrazor is actually the best long sword in the game, but it's +3 enchanted and it requires going evil during the Hell Trials, which can be a dealbreaker for some.

    Really the most notable thing about longswords is how many of them are situationally useful because they grant immunities or usable abilities; they might be second only to quarterstaves in that department. Daystar gives Sunray, Namarra gives Silence, Ras gives a summonable ally, Dragonslayer gets Detect Invisibility, Adjatha protects against charm/domination, (useful vs. Vampires), Dragonslayer protects against Fear.

    Of course, you don't have to actually be proficient in long swords to take advantage of any of that. I usually don't have anyone devoting proficiency pips to Short Swords, but that doesn't mean I don't still put Ilbratha and Arbane's Sword in some of my fighters' quick weapon slots for the free Mirror Image and Haste, (plus Arbane's handy hold immunity).
    jtdroleplayerOrlonKronsteen
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    I started with 2 pips in long sword on my pc already lol going to go long sword scims to start then axes. Figure I can take advantage of helm and Usonus early bg2 while using long swords as situational outcomes occur and throwing pips in axes late game
    OrlonKronsteen
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    Purely on the Nalia/Imoen issue. Which one is better really matters on how early you feel like going into spellhold. If your willing to put much of the side stuff on hold and go in early on which can make certain things in the underdark a bit tougher. Imoen is the better choice. She doesn't really lag behind much in the mage department, specially if your going to do ToB as well, and she has better theif skills for the same skill sets. if your going to do everything you can before spellhold then Nalia is the better choice because she will be much better defeloped and molded to suit your style specifically and Imoen will pretty much always be behind at that point.

    Personally is wish it was possible to keep Imoen as pure thief. There was a really old rare mod that did it back in the day but I think it may be long lost at this point. Gave her a potential kit as well. That would make the Yoshimo -> Imoen change that much better. Specially if you went into spellhold a bit earlier.

    Timing on how you do things affects the switch overs a lot in both cases.
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    I do like to do everything before spell hold which is where I'm having problems I prefer imoen forget thief skills but nalia as a mage like u said she is molded and developed for my play style by that point. Would like to squeeze jan into my party but don't know who to replace

    Pc fighter/mage
    Keldorn
    Jaheria
    Nalia --> imoen
    Mazzy
    Anomen
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    If you like to do everything. and I do as well. Imoen's thieving skills are a bit less useful. Specially if you do watcher's keep.

    And looking at your list you are pretty fighter heavy. Given your setup. And that a combination of Anomen and Jaheira may be both needed to get all your healing in a couple of the harder fights. Jaheira actually has the strongest fighter stats of the npc's in that group as well.

    I'd say that Mazzy may be your weakest link unless you've got her modded to more make her a true halfing paladin. If that's the case and she can use the two-handed you know what. Then I'd say consider switching out Keldorn. Though it often feels like that often functions just a little bit better in Keldorn's hands. maybe because it fits with his kit well. Without the mods while she is a wonderful character you've kind of got her niche's filled by the rest of the party and if your using her ranged Jan can help cover that on top of filling your gap in your thieving skills.

    As I recall he can actually end up with higher thieving skills than everybody but the pure thief and he can somewhat fill in that ranged role. Though Nalia is your only real ranged character. With that being the case she's generally fairly easy to protect with your setup. You can either put her in a middle slot and in ambush situations leave her in the middle while others go out to meet threats. Or leave her towards the back with Keldorn or Anomen to play body guard for the few ambush situations as a hard back line.

    With both Nalia and Jan if you go that route. I'd put them in the middle positions in your party. This tends to be a safe place for squishy mages for ambushes. And the back line can move past them on head one battles (which there are many of as we know.)
  • jtdroleplayerjtdroleplayer Member Posts: 53
    Playing on iPad so no mods for me. I added mazzy to take advantage of halbreds as I have all the best weapons covered inctjsinoarty but I could go with jan and that fancy x bow in watchers forget the name Keldorn is a must for you know what. I am partial to doing everything before spell hold so it'll be jan and nalia I'll be leaving imoen out this playthrough. And adding jan is always a blast i love the little guy lol. I am really going to miss minsc this playthrough first time in a good party without him. Mazzy was also coming with me to take advantage of me tob not sure who I'm going to replace to have him
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    Minsc and Jan are both good characters. I don't take them on every run but I take them often enough. Occasionally even together. So I understand trying to include them.
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