Qwinns Karachblade fix shouldn't be included! (Spoilers)
karl_maulder
Member Posts: 133
I didn't know that Beamdog decided to include (or forgot to exclude) this fixpack since they said, that only the bugfixes would be implemented into P:T:EE. Needless to say when i first noticed it, i thought it was a bug.
I can understand why Qwinn decided to change the upgrade, since having the streaming blade (original), in some ways (powergaming ways) are kind of unfulfilling. However, if you look at it at a bigger perspective, the orignal idea (i presume) was to make three different blades, of which all of them had both pros and cons, which reflects the zerthimon philosophy (Balance in all things); and can be made in to a damage dealing weapon, defending weapon, or a mage weapon. Adding all those bonuses into one weapon, feels very, or actually extremely cheesy, and doesn't reflect the original idea about it at all.
Also, does this mean that the Kinstealer now has the lowest damage value, or does the streaming blade just take all good things, without adding any bads? Thinking about reporting this as a bug.
I can understand why Qwinn decided to change the upgrade, since having the streaming blade (original), in some ways (powergaming ways) are kind of unfulfilling. However, if you look at it at a bigger perspective, the orignal idea (i presume) was to make three different blades, of which all of them had both pros and cons, which reflects the zerthimon philosophy (Balance in all things); and can be made in to a damage dealing weapon, defending weapon, or a mage weapon. Adding all those bonuses into one weapon, feels very, or actually extremely cheesy, and doesn't reflect the original idea about it at all.
Also, does this mean that the Kinstealer now has the lowest damage value, or does the streaming blade just take all good things, without adding any bads? Thinking about reporting this as a bug.
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Comments
I haven't yet reached a point in the game where Dak'kon's blade upgrades, so I have to ask: You got the Streaming Blade (which is what most player normally get) and it is significantly better in the Enhanced Edition than it was in the original game?
Qwinn's fixpack made the sword basically go from poop evil to ok neutral to best good.
Despite beamdog saying they did everything to keep up with original this slipped as it wasn't part of the original game.
Low Morale: "Kinstealer": 6-24 Slashing, +3 To Hit, +2 AC, double 1st level spells.
Mid Morale: "Chained": 5-20 Slashing, +3 To Hit, +6 AC, double 1st and 2nd level spells
High Morale: "Streaming": 5-20 Slashing, +3 To Hit, +3 AC, double 1st and 2nd level spells, 1 additional 3rd level spell
EE values (taken from Qwinn's fixpack):
Kinstealer: same
Chained: +3 AC
Streaming: +6 AC
So Qwinns fixpack changed the fundamental idea about the Karachblade upgrades (how the developer wanted the upgrades to work), from being viable at all morale levels, to giving more power the higher your morale gets. It's a fanmade change, that shouldn't be there in the first place.
Kinstealer 6-24, +3 AC, + 2 lvl 1 spells, + 1 lvl 2 spell (cloudy mind and suppressed hate)
Chained 5-20 +5 AC, double lv 1 spells, +2 lvl 2 spells (balance in all things)
Streaming 4-16, +3 AC, double lv 1, double lv 2, +3 lvl 3 spells (eyes opened, mind clear)
Problem is unlocking Zerthimon's circle and maxing Dak's morale that way. So to get neutral/bad morale blade you help him (even lawful evil TNO would help him decipher the circle to follow his own ulterior motives or chaotic evil TNO would help him only to strike him down later because it's fun and whatever) but then you must be a complete dick to him because Dak can't read between the lines and genuinely thinks you are his buddy now.
His weapon is the strongest thing in the PS:T setting (and the reason practical incarnation saved him after all) and now it wouldn't be a no-brainer. Thing is justify being a total ass when playing a lawful good char wanting his kinstealer. :P
Since the blade is meant to reflect his inner turmoil/tranquility, it only makes sense that the blade gets better if Dak'kon feels better.
Also note that Dak'kon's morale (with an -e) can be very high with a thoroughly evil TNO.
Your Jedi/Sith analogy misses the point, since they are about moral (without an -e), i.e. "good" and "evil" choices, especially in the context of The Planes.
It could be interesting to have an alternative where you could fuel Dak'kon with anger to give him stability of mind but that's not what the game has.
3-12 damage, +4 AC, doubles 1st level mage spell slots, one additional 2nd level slot.
Can someone indicate which events or parameters are important for further 'evolution'?
In my current game the Pronouncement of Two Deaths as One has been made, and Dak'kon is level 7/7 (currently in Lower Ward).
Thanks!
Although it's somewhat off topic, if you look at it at a holistic aswell as an ethical perspective, there is no such thing that suggest that Dak'kon being more positive automatically will lead him to become better at everything. Circumstances, seeing things from different views, working hard, and learning from our misstakes makes us develop. But i agree on most of what you've written.
@bob_veng I've already submitted it as a bug.
Chained:
Damage: 5-20 slashing
Effects: enchanted +3, +6 AC, THAC0 +3
Special: doubles all level 1 and 2 mage spells
Speed: 6
Streaming:
Damage: 5-20 slashing
Effects: enchanted +3, +3 AC, THAC0 +3
Special: doubles all 1st level mage spells, doubles all 2nd level mage spells, memorize 1 additional 3rd level mage spell
Speed: 6
Kinstealer:
Damage: 6-24 slashing
Effects: enchanted +3, +2 AC, THAC0 +3
Special: double 1st level spells memorized
Speed: 6
In PST:EE, the blade's AC numbers are swapped for the Chained and the Streaming blade. (Chained has 3, Streaming has 6)
Some think this is wrong because the blade was meant(according to them) to have 3 states with their advantages and disadvantages.
Others think this is right because the blade is supposed(according to them) to be stronger when Dak'kon's morale is at its highest.
I still think that Qwinn had the right end of it, but you make a decent case for what the blades can represent, though.
That's a different question from "was it how they originally intended it to work," though, to which I suspect the answer is "no." If Chris Avellone was involved, you can be sure he had a hand in deciding whether this bug fix was appropriate or not.
YHCMV, though (Your Head Canon May Vary)
In the context of the characters in your party, the paradigm seems to favor good behavior with combat rewards, and bad behavior with entertaining banter. Which seems to support the fix being discussed here.
i'm generally pro-change but the difference among blades now looks arbitrary
at least now the two non-best blades should be equally good and they are not because kinstealer appears better (lvl 2 slots - objectively and subjectively meh)
also, shouldn't now the best version have all the best stats? thematically, streaming blade should then also be 6-24!
all in all, pretty problematic
Sure, some fixes could be made, as an example, adding 10% criticle hit to the kinstealer blade, and decreasing min and max damage for the streaming blade by 2, yet adding more 3rd level spells.