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Still don't know how to beat this game

What do you do when you can't hit a mage, and only have breach memorized? Which are most useful spells, I only ever use buffs to buff my party, but never seem to use any other spell type.
What do you do when half of your party gets panicked due to fear spell?

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  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 513
    Sometimes it's easier to simply back off until the majority of their buffs wear off, some other tips are using cloud spells to interrupt them, even if they are immune due to buffs it will often interrupt them casting more spells. Use wands but be careful directly targeting them if they have a form of spell turning. A couple of rare weapons have dispel magic on hit, Staff of the Magi and Carsomyr and there's also an evil 2h sword version deep in Watchers Keep. Obviously they are hard to get and if the Mage has Protection from Magic weapons then they will not trigger the dispel.

    Using magic resistant Summoned creatures such as Skeleton Warriors is also highly effective, just be warned they can be unsummoned with Death Spell/Deathfog so you may want to chuck up some weak summons to tease out those spells.

    Lastly then non-Lich Mages are vulnerable to Poison, once protection from magic weapons runs out then dagger of venom, any weapon with elemental damage, assassin and blackguard poison weapon ability are all highly effective, including arrows of fire/cold/acid, arrows/bolts of Biting, bolts of lightning. Obviously Liches are immune to poison but the other elemental damages will work as long as Prot magic weapons is down (only lasts 4 rounds per casting).
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 627
    edited April 2017
    Easiest way to handle mages is:

    Cast Remove/Resist Fear
    Cast Death Ward (Liches and other high lvl mages)
    Cast True Seeing
    Cast Secret Word/Breach/Spell Strike/Whichever protection removal spell you've got
    Kill it.

    Edit:

    Or.. Recruit Keldorn, set to auto attack, set script to use special abilities, equip carsomyr.
    Have some coffee, relax.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Cvijeta said:

    What do you do when you can't hit a mage, and only have breach memorized? Which are most useful spells, I only ever use buffs to buff my party, but never seem to use any other spell type.
    What do you do when half of your party gets panicked due to fear spell?

    I'm assuming you're on vanilla instead of SCS.

    Breach is pretty much the only debuffing spell you'll need. It brings down Stoneskins and Protection from Magic Weapons and lets your physical attackers interrupt the mage and prevent him from doing much else. You will probably need multiple breaches memorized per mage to deal with their contingencies, too.

    Liches are immune to level 5 spells, which means they cannot be breached. They're susceptible to the Wand of Spell Striking, (available in Watchers' Keep), though.

    The really nasty protections like Protection from Magic Weapons and Improved Mantle only last four rounds, so in a pinch you can always fall back out of sight and wait for them to wear off.

    Weapons with elemental damage are nice because the elemental damage can pierce stoneskins to interrupt mages. Flail of Ages is a superlative mage-killer. The 33% chance to inflict them with slow is also super-nice.

    If you find your party getting panicked, memorize "Resist Fear" and cast it preventatively.

    As mentioned, Keldorn's dispels and Carsomyr can take a lot of the thought out of defense-stripping-- just point and click and they're gone. Gotta kill a dragon to get the sword, (bring along Resist Fear!), but Keldorn's easy as pie to get.

    If you make your character a Dwarf/Halfling/Gnome with 18 constitution, they get a 5-point bonus to several of their saves, including their save vs. spells. This makes enemy spells much less likely to land.
  • SceptenarSceptenar Member Posts: 606
    I assume you're having difficulty with mages because they use improved invisibility, it makes them untargetable. Try memorizing some true seeing spells to counter it, or use the true seeing ability from the Inquisitor paladin class (Keldorn Firecam is an Inquisitor).
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Yeah, I came back because I realized I forgot to mention Improved Invisibility.

    So improved invisibility makes you untargetable by magic, which could potentially give you a huge edge against enemy mages. The problem is there's a whole host of spells that can get rid of it. But... all of those spells are from the divination school. So if you cast Improved Invisibility on your mage and then cast Spell Immunity: Divination, the enemy can't get rid of it.

    This means unless the enemy mages can see through invisibility, (most liches can do this, for instance), they can't cast spells at you. Which makes mage battles substantially easier, as all they really can do is summon monsters, and summoned monsters can be slain instantly with Death Spell.

    One of the things that can make SCS so difficult is that mages start using the Improved Invisibility / Spell Immunity: Divination combo against you.
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 183
    edited April 2017
    If we're talking vanilla, my favourite tactic against mages was always simply brute force.

    For all their intricate magical defense and dispel/protect game of cat and mouse, the mages really have only two kinds of defense against physical attacks: stoneskins/mirror images and Absolute Immunity.

    Absolute Immunity lasts 4 rounds, so you don't as much as run as just briskly walk away for a while and the problem has solved itself.

    Stoneskins/mirror images protect only from an x number of attacks. A level 20 Mage will have 10 Stoneskins. That is really not a lot for a party of five/six, even a party at half the Mage's level.

    And that is before you even consider that elemental damage goes through Stoneskin.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    edited April 2017

    If we're talking vanilla, my favourite tactic against mages was always simply brute force.

    For all their intricate magical defense and dispel/protect game of cat and mouse, the mages really have only two kinds of defense against physical attacks: stoneskins/mirror images and Absolute Immunity.

    Absolute Immunity lasts 4 rounds, so you don't as much as run as just briskly walk away for a while and the problem has solved itself.

    Stoneskins/mirror images protect only from an x number of attacks. A level 20 Mage will have 10 Stoneskins. That is really not a lot for a party of five/six, even a party at half the Mage's level.

    And that is before you even consider that elemental damage goes through Stoneskin.

    Many mages of decent skill and level combine stoneskins with protection from magic weapons and arrows which mean you have to either dispel that or wait until it wears of.

    But I agree, if your characters are well protected against mind affecting spells, like fear, chaos, paralyzation (hold) etc, then you can just wait it out and then brute force the mage once its best protections wear of. A berzerker or F/C dwarf, for example, is nigh impossible to kill once you reach negative saving throws.

    If you have a druid, try casting insect plagues on enemy mages. It's a level 5 spell that even Jaheira as a MC reaches very early in the game. It trivializes most mage fights in vanilla BG2. The constant biting of the flies interrupts the enemy mages spell casting, making them very easy to kill off.

    Edit: Btw, I concur on that you need something memorized that can remove invisibility. Improved invisibility is a low level spell that a decent amount of mages use, often well before you have a mage or cleric of your own with true sight (that sees through that). The divine spell remove invisibilty is low level, but has a long cast time and only works once, meaning anyone that can become invisible again will need another casting from you.
    Thieves have detect illusion that remove invisibilty, but you need to invest skill points in it. It's usually my first pick after I have 100/100 in traps/lockpicking for someone like Jan Jansen.
    You can make yourself invisible to make your characters being unable to be attacked by the enemy mages. Many enemy mages have invis memorized but not always do they have true sight. Invisibility 10' radius works here, but make sure your NPC scripts don't make them break invis.
    There's a certain usable item in the game that adds true sight. I won't spoil it for you, but if you feel like it, google where to get it. This means even fighters can see through improved invis.
    And like someone else said above, area of effect spells can still hit invis creatures so retreat back and bombard the area from afar.
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 183
    Skatan said:

    Many mages of decent skill and level combine stoneskins with protection from magic weapons and arrows which mean you have to either dispel that or wait until it wears of.

    I am assuming you will simply use a non-magical weapon if you encounter Prot. from Magical Weapons. Ranged characters are more screwed since Prot. from Magical Weapons and Prot. from Missiles covers the entire spectrum
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    if your doing Vanilla game as well. Very few mages recast protections. So usually once they are down they are down. However a few specific ones are scripted to either recast or have them automatically go up as if they cast them at certain health percentages or after certain periods of time. But these are few and far between. (mostly the couple of optional liche fights for example.)
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Skatan said:

    There's a certain usable item in the game that adds true sight. I won't spoil it for you, but if you feel like it, google where to get it. This means even fighters can see through improved invis.

    There are actually two items. One from vanilla BG2 that can cast one of several spells, one of them being True Sight. (With save-scumming, you can get it there every time and just leave it.) Also, a True Sight casting gem was added in the EE content.

    (Depending on how you do the quest and who you carry with you into ToB, it's actually possible to get a second copy of the True Sight gem, giving your party three True Sight items in one playthrough.)
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    At OP, more information is needed.

    No point running off a list of what you can do if you are too low level to do any of it. Just gets confusing.

    What level are you at, which NPC are with you and which mage is giving you so much grief?
    That way you will get a targeted answer which you can work through and learn how the spells work.

    No offense meant to other posters, but eventhough I know how to deal with mages (OKish) the long list of tactics to deal with all possibilities make my eyes blur.
  • CvijetaCvijeta Member Posts: 417
    Horror, Holy symbol fear, stun, fear, panicked - these spells along the way of not being able to hit a mage.
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 803
    For Fear and Panicked, cast either Remove Fear (level 1 Cleric spell) or Resist Fear (level 2 Mage spell) before the fight: it lasts for an hour, and makes you immune to Fear.
    Stun is... pretty much impossible to become immune to outside of saving throws.
    If you have enough warrior types, just have all of them auto-attack the mage: as long as Protection From Magic Weapons isn't up, even stoneskin and Mirror Image doesn't really help survive all the attacks a group of warriors can put out. If Protection from magic weapons was cast, either use normal weapons/arrows, or just wait four rounds for it to drop, or take it down with Breach.
    If Globes of Invulnerability are in use, take them down with Spell Thrust (mage 3) for the Minor Globe, and Secret Word and higher for a regular Globe of Invulnerability: after these are down, you can disrupt spells with spells as well which help significantly.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Cvijeta said:

    Horror, Holy symbol fear, stun, fear, panicked - these spells along the way of not being able to hit a mage.

    OK, Resist Fear.
    2nd level party wide spell lasts an hour.

    Take two along in case it's dispelled and you need to cast it again.

    Stun.

    I'll leave that to somebody else, it's my personal bete noir because I usually forget to do anything about it.
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 513
    Very difficult to become immune to Stun, both Symbol of Stun and Power Word Stun can be protected via Berserker Rage or a mage casting Spell Immunity: Conjuration, but both these abilities are self cast only and cannot protect other people. The Symbol is particularly annoying as it is rarely directly targeted so you can't use spell turning/deflection/absorption abilities. I believe Mazzy also has immunity to stun when she is using her Short Sword of Arvoreen.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Borek said:

    Very difficult to become immune to Stun, both Symbol of Stun and Power Word Stun can be protected via Berserker Rage or a mage casting Spell Immunity: Conjuration, but both these abilities are self cast only and cannot protect other people. The Symbol is particularly annoying as it is rarely directly targeted so you can't use spell turning/deflection/absorption abilities. I believe Mazzy also has immunity to stun when she is using her Short Sword of Arvoreen.

    Does "free action" work?

    So thinking the ring, potions, spells?
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Cvijeta said:

    Horror, Holy symbol fear, stun, fear, panicked - these spells along the way of not being able to hit a mage.

    As others have said, you can prebuff with Resist Fear, which is an area spell that will make your whole party immune. As the game progresses, mages also like to cast confusion spells, so chaotic commands is useful to have memorized, at least for your physical damage dealer.

    Don't try to use mind altering or other crowd control spells on magic users as they typically have high saves, magic resistance, spell protections, or all three. If you can get off a poisoned throwing dagger or a melf's acid arrow before their protections go up, most fights will be over before they begin (except for liches, who are immune).

    If you've found that you're still struggling to hit a mage even after their spell protections are down, look out for lower-level spells like stoneskin and mirror image. The former absorbs a number of physical attacks per every other mage level and the latter creates illusory images that have a 50% chance of absorbing each attack (each absorbed attack removes an image/destroys a skin). Together, they're great insurance against nonmagical direct damage - wear them down with magic missiles and hasted fighters if you find yourself out of divination spells.

    Finally, don't underestimate the thief skill "detect illusion." A lot of people ignore this at level up, but it can be a great tool to make mages targetable and works like an ongoing True Sight if properly invested in (plus it ignores spell immunity: divination). Just turn off your thief's AI and have them detect traps throughout the battle - should stop any illusions from staying up for very long :smile:
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 513

    Borek said:

    Very difficult to become immune to Stun, both Symbol of Stun and Power Word Stun can be protected via Berserker Rage or a mage casting Spell Immunity: Conjuration, but both these abilities are self cast only and cannot protect other people. The Symbol is particularly annoying as it is rarely directly targeted so you can't use spell turning/deflection/absorption abilities. I believe Mazzy also has immunity to stun when she is using her Short Sword of Arvoreen.

    Does "free action" work?

    So thinking the ring, potions, spells?
    I'm pretty sure Free action only works against Slow, Hold, Web and Entangle spells, not Stuns, at least i remember getting stunned when wearing the ring of free action and having a rage-moment :s

    It's particularly annoying when you encounter enemies that have stuns that are not cast, such as the guy wielding Celestial Fury, Monks, Mind Flayers etc, in most cases you cannot protect yourself except via either being immune to being hit so the effect does not trigger (protection from magic weapons) or pushing your saving throw bonuses to the max via buffs and hoping you don't roll a 1 :expressionless:
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Also, if I was going to tell my brand-new-to-BG self one thing, it'd be that Saving Throws are life. At the time I was young and was obsessed with AC, doing everything I could to get that bottom-line AC number as low as possible. Low AC is good, but saving throws are life.

    Best way to protect against Horror? Low saving throws. Best way to protect against stuns? Low saving throws. Best way to protect against Hold, against Mummy disease, against massive damage dragon breath, against blind, against silence? Low saving throws.

    Other than hit you with their weapons, almost anything any enemy is going to want to do to you can either be stopped or blunted by making your saving throw.

    Dwarves and Halflings with 18 constitution get -5 to their saves vs. Spell, Wand, and Death. Gnomes with 18 constitution get -5 to their saves vs. Spell and Wand; Spell and Death, in particular, are probably the two most important saves. (I'd say Breath is third, then Wands, then Polymorph.)

    I cannot stress enough how insanely good a -5 to save vs. Spells, (and Death, if Dwarf or Halfling), is. By early BG2, they'll cut the amount of saves you fail in half. By late BG2, they'll reduce it essentially down to zero. Your back-liners, (mages and thieves, mostly), can live without it. But for front-liners like Fighters and Clerics, saving throws are life.

    (Remember that Korgan and Mazzy both get this "Shorty Saves" bonus, with Korgan getting -5 to his Spell/Death/Wand saves and Mazzy getting -4. Jan also gets -4, but it's less important on him since he's more of a back-liner.)

    Because of the importance of saving throws, my fighters and clerics are pretty much always wearing nonmagical Full Plate Mail plus a ring/amulet/cloak of protection, even if I have some good magical Full Plate available. Gotta get that saving throw bonus.

    Korgan in particular is a great NPC if you're struggling with enemy disabling spells, as his Berserk is pretty much a one-stop-shop for status effect immunities. Whatever's bugging you, Korgan can probably become immune at the drop of a hat.
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    Except for perhaps in later game I tend to be using non-magical and rings too. They tend to be superior AC's for BG and even a decent part of SoA. having the additional to saves is just very useful to stop various effects. I'm also learning that DD is a bit of a monster defensively and that just seems to grow as it's levels go up. partly because of that -2 to saves that it's got when in defensive stance.

    7 Poison/Death, 9 for Wands, and 10 for Spell saves is really strong just at level 1. Petrification is his weak point sadly. by a long shot.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    Those wondering about status effects, including Stun, please check http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Effects which is a result of @lolien 's (and other community members') work here - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47623/status-effects/p1. The page offers a very useful table for all effects and ways to prevent/remove them.

    You can cure Stun by the Remove Paralysis spell. You can prevent Stun by Barbarian Rage, Chaotic Commands, Enrage, Magic Resistance, Spell Immunity (Evocation), Potion of Magic Blocking, Scroll of Protection from Magic.
  • lolienlolien Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,108
    I must add, that the wiki page is not complete and not tested thoroughly, so may contains mistakes. If you find any, feel free to report it in the thread mentioned by @JuliusBorisov above.

    Potion of Magic Blocking and Spell Immunity (Evocation) will only prevent the stun effect caused by Chromatic Orb.
  • Montresor_SPMontresor_SP Member Posts: 2,208
    My favorite cheap tactic against liches is to wait until the party has as least two characters who can cast Sunray (high-level Clerics or members equipped with the Daystar +2 or Helm of Brilliance). I then cast Remove Fear before going near the lich, get the two characters up and close, and dual-cast Sunray. Few liches will survive this.

    A sufficiently high level Cleric can also insta-kill liches using their Turn Undead ability.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859

    Those wondering about status effects, including Stun, please check http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Effects which is a result of @lolien 's (and other community members') work here - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47623/status-effects/p1. The page offers a very useful table for all effects and ways to prevent/remove them.

    You can cure Stun by the Remove Paralysis spell. You can prevent Stun by Barbarian Rage, Chaotic Commands, Enrage, Magic Resistance, Spell Immunity (Evocation), Potion of Magic Blocking, Scroll of Protection from Magic.

    Also, the level 20 Skald song and the Improved Bard Song HLA both prevent stun.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859

    My favorite cheap tactic against liches is to wait until the party has as least two characters who can cast Sunray (high-level Clerics or members equipped with the Daystar +2 or Helm of Brilliance). I then cast Remove Fear before going near the lich, get the two characters up and close, and dual-cast Sunray. Few liches will survive this.

    A sufficiently high level Cleric can also insta-kill liches using their Turn Undead ability.

    My favorite cheap tactic against Liches is Protection From Undead scrolls. :wink:
  • CvijetaCvijeta Member Posts: 417
    SomeSort said:

    My favorite cheap tactic against liches is to wait until the party has as least two characters who can cast Sunray (high-level Clerics or members equipped with the Daystar +2 or Helm of Brilliance). I then cast Remove Fear before going near the lich, get the two characters up and close, and dual-cast Sunray. Few liches will survive this.

    A sufficiently high level Cleric can also insta-kill liches using their Turn Undead ability.

    My favorite cheap tactic against Liches is Protection From Undead scrolls. :wink:

    How's that a cheat? Since liches are undead, you know...
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 859
    Cvijeta said:

    SomeSort said:

    My favorite cheap tactic against liches is to wait until the party has as least two characters who can cast Sunray (high-level Clerics or members equipped with the Daystar +2 or Helm of Brilliance). I then cast Remove Fear before going near the lich, get the two characters up and close, and dual-cast Sunray. Few liches will survive this.

    A sufficiently high level Cleric can also insta-kill liches using their Turn Undead ability.

    My favorite cheap tactic against Liches is Protection From Undead scrolls. :wink:

    How's that a cheat? Since liches are undead, you know...
    Not a cheat, just cheap. While under the effects of a PfU scroll, undead will stand around and completely ignore you while you bash their skulls in. They don't fight back, they don't put up defenses, they don't run away, they don't do anything. They just stand there and die. And it works against any undead in the game, from the weeniest zombie to the most powerful demilich.

    (Bone Golems, it should be noted, are not technically undead. They're golems that just happen to be made out of bones instead of clay or stone or iron or juggernauts.)

    PfU scrolls can take literally all danger out of any undead encounter in the game. They're cheap, common, and ludicrously overpowered. A fresh character of any class with just 89,000 XP can use them to defeat Kangaax without any trouble whatsoever, provided they have a weapon capable of hitting him.
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