Dual-class question: Specialist mage->Fighter; Fighter->Specialist mage
Queegon
Member Posts: 363
Firstly, yes, the latter is EEKeeper/mod only. And for the latter I have a question.
Multi-class specialist mage/fighter (not just illusionist/XXX for gnomes but all multis EEkeepered or modded) gets an extra memorizable spell per spell level.
Spec. mage->xxx gets an extra spell per level
xxx->Spec. mage (mods and keeper only) doesn't get an extra spell per level no matter what (and I spent 2 hours trying different combinations of dualling naturally or through keeper/mods and whatnot).
Question is, is that an engine/rules limitation hard-coded into the class options/possibilities? Could someone possibly look for an answer?
You can add the extra spell per level manually (keeper) but that only gets you so far because upon level up you'll just gain less spells in order for the limitation to keep up. So by adding one extra lvl 1 spell now you are getting one less lvl 1 spell upon next level up that's granting that one extra slot.
Follow-up question: Is xxx->spec. mage even considered to apply the -2 penalty to saving throws for the same school of magic this way? Game does't show you failed saving throws, so I can't test it without testing hundreds of iterations to catch the probability of a spell not being saved against while rolling exact numbers.
He/she is denied spells from opposite schools, that I can see.
Multi-class specialist mage/fighter (not just illusionist/XXX for gnomes but all multis EEkeepered or modded) gets an extra memorizable spell per spell level.
Spec. mage->xxx gets an extra spell per level
xxx->Spec. mage (mods and keeper only) doesn't get an extra spell per level no matter what (and I spent 2 hours trying different combinations of dualling naturally or through keeper/mods and whatnot).
Question is, is that an engine/rules limitation hard-coded into the class options/possibilities? Could someone possibly look for an answer?
You can add the extra spell per level manually (keeper) but that only gets you so far because upon level up you'll just gain less spells in order for the limitation to keep up. So by adding one extra lvl 1 spell now you are getting one less lvl 1 spell upon next level up that's granting that one extra slot.
Follow-up question: Is xxx->spec. mage even considered to apply the -2 penalty to saving throws for the same school of magic this way? Game does't show you failed saving throws, so I can't test it without testing hundreds of iterations to catch the probability of a spell not being saved against while rolling exact numbers.
He/she is denied spells from opposite schools, that I can see.
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One year later I'm in for some more BGII action. The fighter 7 ->necromancer has the same number of spells as fighter 7 -> mage and god knows, if it even applies the penalties to necromantic spells. Can't cast illusions, that checks out.
if you dual class into mage and add the Specialist Mage kit then you do not get extra spells or save mods and whilst it is technically possible to use EE Keeper to fix the spell slots it is EXTREMELY tedious.
I spent a long time trying to get a dual into a Wild Mage working, but it was so much hassle. The problem with Wild Mage in particular is that you are forced as a level 1 to pick nahal's, but for some reason it won't allow it to be selected in the spell list, so i had to avoid putting the kit on until after i had dualled, which meant none of the class attributes such as chance to wild surge and casting spell modification worked.
As for adding in the extra spell slots per level then EE Keeper has an entry that can do it, but i don't currently have the game installed (stupid small SSD) so can't be specific. Off the top of my head then it's in the EE Keeper section where you add Kit benefits, not the spell memorization part. Rather than adding a kit you select to add just a single modifier, in that list will be something like "Wizard spell slots Modifier", you have to set that to be permanent, change the number to be 1, then there's a rather complicated looking list of numbers that essentially equate to 1 = spell level 1, 2 = spell level 2, 4 = spell level 3, 8 = spell level 4, 16 = spell level 5, 32 = spell level 6, 64 = spell level 7, 128 = spell level 8, 256 = spell level 9.
Now you can't do all the spell levels at once, so you need to add in 9 of these lines of modifications, 1 for each spell level, that will fix the number of spell slots issue. AFAIK selecting a Kit in the list in EE Keeper will correctly prevent you from casting spells from the opposing schools, but *probably* won't deal with the saving throw modifier. You would need to test in game to see if you are getting the correct saving throws for your specialist school, if not then i would imagine there is an option to fix that in the same place as the wizard spell slots modifier, but since i only ever did this for a Wild Mage i was not looking for the option for this, i was after the ones to make spells have a chance to surge and modify caster level by +-5 levels.
@Borek Reading that, you essentially repeated what I had posted. There's a mod that allows changing kits on the go via an innate ability, fiddled even with that one. Thought I'd be left with the spell modifier through kit effects but wanted to see, if that was the only option.
What I did for wild mage was to get one on creation screen, then through keeper made it fighter who dual-classed into wild mage in this case. No idea, if that actually solves the wild mage problem. Spec. mages don't have any effects on them, so it must be hardcoded into the class.
One side-question, if I go the countless iterations route. Does -2 saving throw penalty mean:
a) NPC with ST of 10 counts as an NPC with an effective save of 12?
b) Or does it count as 10 still but die rolls become d20-2? Just so I know what to look for in the combat log as it makes difference.
The saving throw modifier should modify the dice roll.
Don't know if it got fixed but choosing dragon disciple in SoA or ToB, then going back and choosing something else still got you the innate armor class bonus and fire resist for levels 1-8 (or higher for ToB).
Tried this with a monk yesterday, went back, chose spec. mage instead. My mage got 1d10+2 fists.
Safest way is to start as a spec. mage then. And manully add the extra spell slots through active effects.
Because someone might already have the answer at hand and/or knows where to look in NI obviously. Brute-forcing is the last ditch effort. I don't expect others to do the brute-force for me, no need to be all preachy.
Thank you for the "where does the "should" come from" though. Good to know.
Rolling natural 20 minus 2 for finger minus 2 for spec mage. Log would say saved vs. death: 16
If I ever see saved: 17/18 then I'd know it doesn't work.
EDIT: Seems to be working fine except affected NPC never saved (should have at 16, if I'm correct which I very well might not be) in a hundred tries. Corrected the spell slots with additional effects as @Borek suggested.
Well then. Onwards. To victory!