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Does BGII:EE scale spawns with party size like BG:EE does?

Comments

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,058
    I don't think it does, at least not that I can remember. Some spawns vary based on party experience but that's about it.

    Then again I have sadly not had time to extensively test since the last patch, especially not in LoB mode.
    JuliusBorisov
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    I can't think of any spawns that scale based on party size; a solo character is going to get the same mobs as a party of six.

    There are a few spawns that scale based on party level, (Umar Hills and Watcher's Keep are the most noticeable), but not nearly as many as there should be, IMO.
    JuliusBorisov
  • JCDentonJCDenton Member Posts: 24
    As others have already said, there are no increases in spawn scales based on your party size, however in some areas, the encounters do change based on your party level.

    So for example, in the Spellhold dungeon, you'll get a Lich in one area instead of a Bone Golem if your level is high enough.

    Also, in some areas, the spawns change based on the time of the day. So for example outside of Spellhold, you'll get different monsters if you come during the night, than if you would come during the day.
    JuliusBorisovThacoBellArtona
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,327
    I'm reading that it occurs rarely, based on level. But I've had as many as eight trolls spawning in Arniss Keep and the next playthrough 1 or 2 (in the central hall). In the corridors 4 or more one playthrough, next one 2. The final fight with Torgal, trolls, yuan Ti, Umber Hulks all with him, next just the 2 trolls with him.

    So I'm presuming level and what's messing up the level spawn is me playing a dual classed charname I think. And that's really annoying because of course, dualing, you could really do with the extra XP.
    Last playthrough it was, " where is everybody?"
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,058
    Pretty sure that while there are many places with XP-based encounters, the majority of fights feature fixed enemy compositions.
    GallowglassCvijetasarevok57
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 88
    JCDenton said:

    As others have already said, there are no increases in spawn scales based on your party size, however in some areas, the encounters do change based on your party level.

    Note that I am specifically asking about EE. Even more specifically, about EE 2.0.

    Original Baldur's Gate also didn't scale spawns with party size, but BG:EE 2.0 does.

    So basically, was this BG:EE behaviour extended to BG2:EE as well, since they essentially share the same "base"?
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,058
    It scales with party size now? I've never noticed, could you give some concrete examples.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,327

    JCDenton said:

    As others have already said, there are no increases in spawn scales based on your party size, however in some areas, the encounters do change based on your party level.

    Note that I am specifically asking about EE. Even more specifically, about EE 2.0.

    Original Baldur's Gate also didn't scale spawns with party size, but BG:EE 2.0 does.

    So basically, was this BG:EE behaviour extended to BG2:EE as well, since they essentially share the same "base"?
    Why would they do that as it must affect players doing solo or small party runs negatively?
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 88

    It scales with party size now? I've never noticed, could you give some concrete examples.

    Make a Barbarian(for movement speed) and hit Lion's Way. Save. Recruit Imoen, Xar and Montaron and find few spawns in Coast Way. Then reload, don't pick anyone, and find the same spawns again.

    Why would they do that as it must affect players doing solo or small party runs negatively?

    Who knows? Throne of Bhaal did it too. At least in Watcher's Keep.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356

    Why would they do that as it must affect players doing solo or small party runs negatively?

    I reckon the thinking is that the game is designed for full party runs. If you choose to solo or run a short party, then that's at your own risk.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,023
    @UnderstandMouseMagic why is that negative for solo? If you have fewer spawns for smaller parties that's more convenient for solo and there's far more XP than a solo player needs even without doing XP farming.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,327
    Grond0 said:

    @UnderstandMouseMagic why is that negative for solo? If you have fewer spawns for smaller parties that's more convenient for solo and there's far more XP than a solo player needs even without doing XP farming.

    The challenge?

    Judging from what people here say, they have played the games hundreds of times. I would have thought that nobody tries solo without being through the game a fair few times.

    So who is this benefitting?
    Don't get it.
    If it's too hard for a player doing solo/small party, they always have the option of recruiting NPC. Why take away the option for players to have the bigger spawns if they can handle them?

    Is there a way to overide this?
    If there isn't it's just removing a choice.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,023
    edited May 31
    @UnderstandMouseMagic I've certainly played the game many hundreds of times - normally solo - and I honestly can't see the problem. The scaling of spawns in relation to party size is not related to designed encounters, i.e. you'll get the same mix of enemies in the ruined temple of Amaunator whether you're solo or a party. It is related to 'random' spawns generated by trigger points, i.e. you'll get only 1 or 2 gibberlings instead of half a dozen.

    If you are an experienced player and know where the trigger points are there's really no additional challenge in having a larger number in these trash mobs. To me therefore the scaling makes sense - it reduces the hassle factor, without affecting the challenge.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,327

    It scales with party size now? I've never noticed, could you give some concrete examples.

    I'm playing 1.3 version BG2 EE.

    Just entered the UD from Sauhagin city down the rope, in the cave opposite there have always been 3 illithids lurking (pretty sure most people know where).
    Playing solo, just now there was 1.

    Just thought I'd post this because although people are saying party size doesn't effect anything, throughout this run, having never played solo before, I'm sure I've been fighting smaller groups on occasion.
    And just had a definite example happen.




    WatchForWolves
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 88
    So it's as I feared.

    Great, now we need @AstroBryGuy to make TuTu-style Spawns mod for BG2/ToB as well!
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 88
    So it's as I feared.

    Great, now we need @AstroBryGuy to make TuTu-style Spawns mod for BG2/ToB as well!
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,166

    It scales with party size now? I've never noticed, could you give some concrete examples.

    I'm playing 1.3 version BG2 EE.

    Just entered the UD from Sauhagin city down the rope, in the cave opposite there have always been 3 illithids lurking (pretty sure most people know where).
    Playing solo, just now there was 1.

    Just thought I'd post this because although people are saying party size doesn't effect anything, throughout this run, having never played solo before, I'm sure I've been fighting smaller groups on occasion.
    And just had a definite example happen.




    Are you playing a dualclass? And when you run paties do you tend to single class? I can see the divided experience from a dualclass messing with the spawn scripts. Its also possible that the behaviour is different for 1.3 and 2.x
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,327
    @ThacoBell

    I understand that it looks at level so dual class averages out?
    But fighter 26/SB10 still averages at "level 18" which is higher than previous trips to the UD with party.

    Currently just over 5 mill total xp, fighter/SB.

    That's pretty high not to get high level/numerous spawns. I'm getting liches ect. elsewhere. There weren't so many Drows waiting either in that group you encounter by the prison thing, 2 casters, 3 maybe 4 fighters.

    I'll keep monitering it, about to go after the Kao Tau Prince, lets see how many turn up. Usually it's jam packed.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,166
    @UnderstandMouseMagic The way I understand it, when the game looks at experience totals, the exp from your inactive class is NOT counted. Only the active class counts towards it.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 12,442
    I've found this material on BG2 spawns: http://www.sorcerers.net/community/threads/experience-based-spawns.3240/

    I've also asked the QA team about BG2:EE. It turns out the party size *does* affect encounter spawns in BG2:EE. It's difficult to say whether or not this is true for the original BG2, though.
    ThacoBellJCDenton
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,327
    Just finished the Kao To (sp) dungeon and the room with the Demagorgon statue.
    Far as I can tell, same amount of enemies.
    Definitely the same amount in the Demogorgon room, all the demon knights turn up.

    @JuliusBorisov

    Thanks for checking.
    It seems to be a bit random whether mobs are affected and that's why it was so hard to say for definite. You think, playing through, you must be remembering wrong.
    ThacoBellJuliusBorisov
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 88

    I've found this material on BG2 spawns: http://www.sorcerers.net/community/threads/experience-based-spawns.3240/

    I've also asked the QA team about BG2:EE. It turns out the party size *does* affect encounter spawns in BG2:EE. It's difficult to say whether or not this is true for the original BG2, though.

    If we believe the thread you've linked, since the spawns depend on CHARNAME's XP range, they should not be affected by party size.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @JuliusBorisov - thanks for that link about XP-related spawns, very interesting and informative. However, that was for original BG2, so it's obviously possible that the details might have been tweaked in BG2ee. Nevertheless, from my own playing experience, I reckon most (or maybe all) of Extremist's list is still valid.

    @WatchForWolves - the two paragraphs of @JuliusBorisov's post probably aren't talking about the same spawn-points. Given the hidden-trap mechanism used by BG to generate spawns, it's highly likely that there's a choice of the spawn composition (where it's not fixed-in-advance) generated at any given spawn-point being decided either by protagonist XP (as listed in the link above) or by party size (a different list which hasn't yet been published), but probably not by both factors at the same spawn-point (because that'd require a much more complex list of triggers).
    JuliusBorisov
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,327
    Seems to be two different effects as well.

    I'm getting the high level spawns, lich, golems, ect.

    What I think I'm missing is numbers, so as in the example I posted, I mindflayer rather than 3, less Drow fighters, less trolls, ect.
    And it's really rather random.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,327
    Just found another incident where spawn size has been affected by being solo (or at least I think that's why).

    Beginning of TOB, whatshername (is it Illasera?) the quick turned up all on her own, no other fighters.
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