Sorry, Another Short vs Long bow thread, need experts advice on options/mods
Neeber
Member Posts: 33
Going to go ahead and beat a dead horse here... I realize when playing archer most recommend shortbow because of the lack of +4 and higher enchanted arrow in late game. My question for the experts is this, is shortbow the consensus for that reason only? It is just Gesen that can hit at +4 right? And also, say I want to go with longbows what Mods do you guys recommend if any to allow for some extra bow fun, whether it be one that spawns in extra enchanted arrows for vendor purchase or a new weapon. Pretty new to mods but have never done a saga Archer run. I guess to sum it up I would ask you guys who have done full saga Archer runs what are my options? I'm open to any suggestions and tips all the way from just play shortbows and suck it up, or download these 17 mods. I will say I'm not real keen on grabbing firetooth and investing any pips in xbow... Head Cannon and all that. Thanks
0
Comments
The main reason is that longbows simply do less damage. Shortbows and even crossbows have better options resulting in better output. Part of that is APR (Tuigan Bow), part is pure damage power (Firetooth, Gesen).
Archers are extremely valuable in my opinion, providing total early/mid game dominance and retaining very solid damage even at endgame. Speaking as a powergamer, Archer is perhaps the class I like the most, and include at least one (often two) in my groups.
As for mods, I can highly recommend Item Revisions - and not just because of the Archer situation. It definitely balances ranged weapons much more, making all of them viable choices. Longbows are very good there, including some high damage ones, and a +APR option (finally). But both Short Bows and Crossbows are also very valid choices in many situations, as is a mix of all. Doesn't add +4 arrows, but still a lot better than vanilla.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/58374/enchant-the-missile-launchers-ranged-weapon-tweak/p1
Always in these threads that is never mentioned. But it's tasheron and gesen without ammo that can kill golems, even adamantine golems safely from distance. Also they can get through protections.
However, an archer with five pips in longbows, so high level anyway, can use shortbows pretty damn efficiently. Just swap around a bit.
For me, if your archer has a high strength score, it makes RP sense they would use longbows. It's longbows that have the romance attached to them, nobody mentions Agincourt without thinking about the longbows, or Robin Hood.
Probably it's for that reason, I hate the tuigan bow, I dunno, just seems like a cheap, cheaty weapon. It's not all about the power gaming for me.
Tuigan adds +1 APR, which is an extra hit per round and a 25% damage increase, say, if you have 4 APR. Gesen's adds 6.5 damage per hit, which is the biggest bow-based +damage bonus in the game. In the vanilla game, the best damage bonus you're going to get from a Longbow is Strong Arm's +3 damage. Since arrow damage is so low in BG2, those +damage bonuses represent a sizeable fraction of your damage output.
With that said, it's not really the end of the world if you go Longbows. At the end-game, Strong Arm loses about 14 damage per round compared to Gesen's under ordinary circumstances, which jumps to 28 under Improved Haste and 31.5 with the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization, (35 damage with Whirlwind).
I calculated ranged damage output at various points during the game. That damage reduction is about a 12.5% drop from Gesen's. (Alternately, Gesen's deals about 14% damage more than Strong Arm.) It's not exactly a dealbreaker. Gesen's is better, but Strong Arm is totally usable.
And if any mod introduces a long bow that deals +6 damage, or a long bow that grants +1 APR, the difference between the two bow types is pretty much totally negated. (Gesen's still has the advantage of interrupting through stoneskins and the ability to hit the half-dozen enemies that require +4 weapons, but this are very minor advantages.)
Also, regarding Crossbows: in Vanilla BG1, Firetooth Crossbow used to add its 1d8 damage *on top of* the 1d8 damage of the crossbow bolt, effectively dealing 2d8 + 5 + 2 damage per shot, 16 average. In the EEs, it no longer gets that second 1d8, meaning it deals 4.5 fewer damage on average.
This is fair, (it shouldn't have been getting that in the first place), but it also means that Shortbows outclass Crossbows at all points unless you're using Whirlwind / Greater Whirlwind. That, plus Slings now getting strength bonus to damage, means that Slings might actually make a better secondary weapon for Archer kits, because they're even better still when you're using Whirlwind / Greater Whirlwind.
(The big advantage of crossbows isn't damage, which now lags shortbows, it's the ubiquity of paralytic bolts of one flavor or another. This means Light Crossbow of Speed is probably the best crossbow in the game. Also, Firetooth crossbow is super-duper-duper cheesy if you exploit the Scorcher ammo from the Big Metal Unit.)
All of that is from a powergame perspective, though. Like I said, from a roleplaying standpoint, even the "worst" option end-game, (Long Bows), is still going to be perfectly viable.
Edit to add: the later in the game you get, the more important Called Shot debuffs become relative to raw damage output, which boosts Tuigan / LCoS relative to Gesen's / Firetooth.
FYI another reason people love the two items named above is due to their ability to pierce a lot of damage resistance spells with elemental damage each hit.
I personally still like to roll any ranger with longbows and use the Elven court bow for most of bg2.
Also, the various Paralytic bolts you can stockpile in chapters 4-5 of BG2 are essentially fight-enders. (There actually exist three different flavors of paralytic bolts, so you can specifically target them based on whether you anticipate the enemy has its worst saving throw vs. death, paralyzation, or spells, though only the Kuo-Toa Bolts exist in a large enough supply to rely on long-term.)
By ToB some of these bolts start losing their shine, (though with things like Whirlwind Attack your paralytic bolts are going to still result in a lot of stunned enemies until your stock runs out), and crossbows never get access to two of the cheesiest types of ammunition in the game (arrows of detonation and dispelling). On the other hand, they do get access to Scorcher Ammo, which gives those two a run for their money in terms of cheese.
All told, yeah, Crossbows are super fun, perhaps passing regular bows in total mayhem in the long run. The "Shortbows uber alles" really only applies to ToB, and even then, the differences between the launcher types is never huge and all three are viable. (As are slings, though bullets are by far the most boring ammo type.)
For RP reasons, I usually restrict Crossbows to Bards and Paladins; Longbows and Shortbows to Fighters, Rangers, and Thieves; and slings to Clerics and Halflings.