Nalia, Lady of The Rings
Wandering_Ranger
Member Posts: 175
Just finished a run, and wanted to post a thread about an NPC most of the community seem to hate: Nalia. Call it an appreciation thread, if you will. Or a retroactive defense thread. Nalia usually gets cast to the side because people view her as a crappy thief (Imoen or Jan are better, and now with Hexxat, there is a pure-class thief as well, even though she is evil). Others cast her to the side because they find her personality irritating. The latter can't be helped as it is a matter of taste, but let no one say she is a bad thief. It's just false.
I view Nalia as a pure mage who happens to have bonus skills. And believe it or not, her thieving abilities are not bad at all. There wasn't one time in the game where she held me up or frustrated me. On the contrary, she ended up being probably the most all-round versatile party member. Her mage-ness makes many of her thief shortcomings redundant. For instance, you don't need stealth if you have Invisibility spells, detect illusions is irrelevant if you have True Sight, and lock-picking is a non-issue if you have Knock.
There have been precious few runs where I haven't featured Nalia. I always feel horrible about turning her down. She's one of my all-time favourite NPC's for her kind heart, personal struggles (losing her father, arranged marriages, etc), always standing up for the right thing, and character growth (maturing from SoA to ToB - which is a superb change). She becomes quite dominant, and it is nice to see that transformation from her more innocent SoA self. She's the "apprentice mage" turned Archmage, so fits in well with RP and standard gameplay groups.
There will be some number crunching here, so for those who do not like such things, it may not be the best thread to be on. For those that do (like me!), you will find some good stuff and maybe change your perspective on the Lady of the Rings if you do not like her already.
So, firstly, Nalia's stats:
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 16
Int: 17
Wis: 9
Char: 13
Total: 87
These are obscenely good stats by anyone's standards. Only her wisdom is poor, and the only time that is needed is for a Wish spell (obviously scoff down a potion of insight, which sets your wisdom to 18 before casting). This is a non-issue, barely worth mentioning. Her 17 intelligence is more the issue actually, because you need potions so she can scribe 9th level spells into her book.
Secondly, let's look at her thief skills (this is where the Nalia grievances comes from - but as we shall see, this complaining is not necessary):
Open Locks: 60
Find Traps: 80
Pick Pockets: 35
Move Silently: 20
Hide in Shadows: 15
Detect Illusions: 0
Set Traps: 5
Open locks and find traps are evidently the standout. Now let's look at some items for her to help her shine:
NECESSARY ITEMS:
Nalia loves rings. Seriously. Probably because she is rich. The main ones you will need to obtain for her are:
- Ring of Lock Picks (+25 to lock picking, found in Shadow Thief cellar). This will set her open locks to 85, which makes probably 90% of locks in the game pickable without issue. The 10% of the time you struggle, use Knock or a PoMT.
- Ring of Danger Sense (+25 to find traps, found in Planar Sphere). This will set her find traps to 105, meaning she will easily find and disarm ALL traps in the game without issue. This is the ring that will be equipped 99% of the time, as she should be scouting for traps at all times. Thieves are mostly used for traps anyway.
- Sandthief Ring (instant invisibility, found in the Promenade). Use in situations where you want to explore or backstab and don't want to use a spell or potion of invisibility. Situational item more than necessary, really, but it's a main thief feature so I put it in there.
There you have it. These rings offset every thieving weakness she has (except for setting traps - nothing you can do about this). Yes, it's annoying to switch rings. I know. I know. I have every faith you'll be okay, though. Her inbuilt ring gives her some nice bonuses, anyway, so we can't complain too much.
BONUS ITEMS:
- Ring of Fire Control (+50% to fire resistance, among other things. Obtainable in the Underdark). Yet another ring! This ring, fused with her inbuilt one, grants her 100% fire resistance. This means she will laugh off fire and is able to solo elementals as they try in vain to take her down. Not thief related, but certainly worth mentioning as I found it extremely useful at points in the game.
- Gloves of Pickpocketing. OK, it's not a ring, but it increases her pickpocketing by +20 (making it 55) and is obtainable in the copper coronet. You will also need a PoMT with this item to reliably pickpocket individuals - but how often is pickpocket used anyway? Pickpocket Ribald early for his ring of regeneration with no issue using just the potion. This is not a necessary skill for thieves, it's just gravy on an already delicious meal.
- Amulet of the Master Harper (ToB), further increasing open locks and find traps by +20 (not a ring either, but it's jewellery!). At this point she no longer needs any spells or potions to pick locks. Again, however, I can't emphasise enough that she rarely needs them as is - this amulet is just a bit of a bonus. It is NOT a necessary item, which is why it comes so late. It's so unnecessary, in fact, that I was tossing up whether it was worth mentioning at all. I only mention it because it improves thief skills some more.
POTIONS:
Potion of Master thievery
Open Locks: +40
Pick Pockets: +40
Fuse the above rings with a PoMT, and she can overcome the most difficult of tasks (and these come up VERY rarely - I think I had to use a PoMT maybe 4 or 5 times throughout the whole saga - had a tonne of them left over in my potion bag).
Potion of insight:
- Sets wisdom to 18 (Use only with wish, obviously).
Potion of invisibility:
- Go invisible and backstab as you please when you don't feel like using spells. Becomes redundant when you have staff of Magi.
Potion of Genius and Potion of Mind Focusing:
- You will need these to inscribe 9th level spells due to her having 17 intelligence. Alternatively, you can use the Golden Ioun Stone from ToB: +1 intelligence (which is when she will be needing the 9th level spells anyway)
OTHER ITEMS:
Robe of Vecna: Obtainable early and easily. Extremely great item. Goes without saying. Get every time.
Staff of the Magi: Permanent invisibility. Not obtainable early, sadly.
Golem Manual: The early trip to Watcher's keep is worthwhile to pick up a potion bag, endless quivers of bolts and arrows, a great crossbow, and this superb tome (which only she could use, as everyone else in my party lacked the high intelligence necessary).
Arbane's Sword: Free movement, +2 short sword. You get this from an early ambush. Easy.
Tuigan Bow: Copper Coronet. Makes Nalia into a sharpshooter. Easy to get and good item.
Firetooth Crossbow: Easy to get early at Watcher's Keep. She's not specialised in Crossbows, but it is something to keep in mind for mid-game anyway.
Polymorph self: She comes with this spell. By itself it deals with all magic-users, which she can solo. Stand everyone else back and let her do her thing.
Like 90% of the items listed (and 100% of the necessary ones) are easily obtainable in the first few hours of gameplay. Literally everything Nalia needs to be good you will obtain very early and very easily. It's right at her fingertips. She doesn't struggle early (her stats are sufficient to get by) WHILE you are obtaining these necessary items, and she doesn't struggle later BECAUSE you've obtained these necessary items. The key things she needs are the rings. The other stuff are just bonus items.
The biggest annoyance is perhaps that she can't wear mage-rings because she has to wear the thief ones (unless you really don't mind switching rings, then it becomes a non-issue), but I think she has enough spells and general versatility that this is not a huge problem. I should mention she can also backstab with a girdle of (any) strength for huge damage.
Nalia is a great NPC, which is why I have included her from my the first time I ever played this game right up to today. For me, all other thieves are simply unnecessary. She joins early and stays the entire time. Include her in your next party and enjoy.. Just be sure to get her the rings of power, and she will rule them all!
I view Nalia as a pure mage who happens to have bonus skills. And believe it or not, her thieving abilities are not bad at all. There wasn't one time in the game where she held me up or frustrated me. On the contrary, she ended up being probably the most all-round versatile party member. Her mage-ness makes many of her thief shortcomings redundant. For instance, you don't need stealth if you have Invisibility spells, detect illusions is irrelevant if you have True Sight, and lock-picking is a non-issue if you have Knock.
There have been precious few runs where I haven't featured Nalia. I always feel horrible about turning her down. She's one of my all-time favourite NPC's for her kind heart, personal struggles (losing her father, arranged marriages, etc), always standing up for the right thing, and character growth (maturing from SoA to ToB - which is a superb change). She becomes quite dominant, and it is nice to see that transformation from her more innocent SoA self. She's the "apprentice mage" turned Archmage, so fits in well with RP and standard gameplay groups.
There will be some number crunching here, so for those who do not like such things, it may not be the best thread to be on. For those that do (like me!), you will find some good stuff and maybe change your perspective on the Lady of the Rings if you do not like her already.
So, firstly, Nalia's stats:
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 16
Int: 17
Wis: 9
Char: 13
Total: 87
These are obscenely good stats by anyone's standards. Only her wisdom is poor, and the only time that is needed is for a Wish spell (obviously scoff down a potion of insight, which sets your wisdom to 18 before casting). This is a non-issue, barely worth mentioning. Her 17 intelligence is more the issue actually, because you need potions so she can scribe 9th level spells into her book.
Secondly, let's look at her thief skills (this is where the Nalia grievances comes from - but as we shall see, this complaining is not necessary):
Open Locks: 60
Find Traps: 80
Pick Pockets: 35
Move Silently: 20
Hide in Shadows: 15
Detect Illusions: 0
Set Traps: 5
Open locks and find traps are evidently the standout. Now let's look at some items for her to help her shine:
NECESSARY ITEMS:
Nalia loves rings. Seriously. Probably because she is rich. The main ones you will need to obtain for her are:
- Ring of Lock Picks (+25 to lock picking, found in Shadow Thief cellar). This will set her open locks to 85, which makes probably 90% of locks in the game pickable without issue. The 10% of the time you struggle, use Knock or a PoMT.
- Ring of Danger Sense (+25 to find traps, found in Planar Sphere). This will set her find traps to 105, meaning she will easily find and disarm ALL traps in the game without issue. This is the ring that will be equipped 99% of the time, as she should be scouting for traps at all times. Thieves are mostly used for traps anyway.
- Sandthief Ring (instant invisibility, found in the Promenade). Use in situations where you want to explore or backstab and don't want to use a spell or potion of invisibility. Situational item more than necessary, really, but it's a main thief feature so I put it in there.
There you have it. These rings offset every thieving weakness she has (except for setting traps - nothing you can do about this). Yes, it's annoying to switch rings. I know. I know. I have every faith you'll be okay, though. Her inbuilt ring gives her some nice bonuses, anyway, so we can't complain too much.
BONUS ITEMS:
- Ring of Fire Control (+50% to fire resistance, among other things. Obtainable in the Underdark). Yet another ring! This ring, fused with her inbuilt one, grants her 100% fire resistance. This means she will laugh off fire and is able to solo elementals as they try in vain to take her down. Not thief related, but certainly worth mentioning as I found it extremely useful at points in the game.
- Gloves of Pickpocketing. OK, it's not a ring, but it increases her pickpocketing by +20 (making it 55) and is obtainable in the copper coronet. You will also need a PoMT with this item to reliably pickpocket individuals - but how often is pickpocket used anyway? Pickpocket Ribald early for his ring of regeneration with no issue using just the potion. This is not a necessary skill for thieves, it's just gravy on an already delicious meal.
- Amulet of the Master Harper (ToB), further increasing open locks and find traps by +20 (not a ring either, but it's jewellery!). At this point she no longer needs any spells or potions to pick locks. Again, however, I can't emphasise enough that she rarely needs them as is - this amulet is just a bit of a bonus. It is NOT a necessary item, which is why it comes so late. It's so unnecessary, in fact, that I was tossing up whether it was worth mentioning at all. I only mention it because it improves thief skills some more.
POTIONS:
Potion of Master thievery
Open Locks: +40
Pick Pockets: +40
Fuse the above rings with a PoMT, and she can overcome the most difficult of tasks (and these come up VERY rarely - I think I had to use a PoMT maybe 4 or 5 times throughout the whole saga - had a tonne of them left over in my potion bag).
Potion of insight:
- Sets wisdom to 18 (Use only with wish, obviously).
Potion of invisibility:
- Go invisible and backstab as you please when you don't feel like using spells. Becomes redundant when you have staff of Magi.
Potion of Genius and Potion of Mind Focusing:
- You will need these to inscribe 9th level spells due to her having 17 intelligence. Alternatively, you can use the Golden Ioun Stone from ToB: +1 intelligence (which is when she will be needing the 9th level spells anyway)
OTHER ITEMS:
Robe of Vecna: Obtainable early and easily. Extremely great item. Goes without saying. Get every time.
Staff of the Magi: Permanent invisibility. Not obtainable early, sadly.
Golem Manual: The early trip to Watcher's keep is worthwhile to pick up a potion bag, endless quivers of bolts and arrows, a great crossbow, and this superb tome (which only she could use, as everyone else in my party lacked the high intelligence necessary).
Arbane's Sword: Free movement, +2 short sword. You get this from an early ambush. Easy.
Tuigan Bow: Copper Coronet. Makes Nalia into a sharpshooter. Easy to get and good item.
Firetooth Crossbow: Easy to get early at Watcher's Keep. She's not specialised in Crossbows, but it is something to keep in mind for mid-game anyway.
Polymorph self: She comes with this spell. By itself it deals with all magic-users, which she can solo. Stand everyone else back and let her do her thing.
Like 90% of the items listed (and 100% of the necessary ones) are easily obtainable in the first few hours of gameplay. Literally everything Nalia needs to be good you will obtain very early and very easily. It's right at her fingertips. She doesn't struggle early (her stats are sufficient to get by) WHILE you are obtaining these necessary items, and she doesn't struggle later BECAUSE you've obtained these necessary items. The key things she needs are the rings. The other stuff are just bonus items.
The biggest annoyance is perhaps that she can't wear mage-rings because she has to wear the thief ones (unless you really don't mind switching rings, then it becomes a non-issue), but I think she has enough spells and general versatility that this is not a huge problem. I should mention she can also backstab with a girdle of (any) strength for huge damage.
Nalia is a great NPC, which is why I have included her from my the first time I ever played this game right up to today. For me, all other thieves are simply unnecessary. She joins early and stays the entire time. Include her in your next party and enjoy.. Just be sure to get her the rings of power, and she will rule them all!
17
Comments
Edwin's three extra spells per level easily leave him #1 with a bullet, but Nalia is a pretty solid #2, and the only credible threat to that ranking is Imoen if you manage to get her when she's not horribly underleveled. (A goal that, perhaps ironically, Nalia is actually antithetical to. That's probably her biggest weakness; bringing Nalia almost certainly means you get a lower-level Imoen if you want to bring her, too.)
I agree that her thief skills are all you need. The only Thief skill you need to get to 100 is Find/Disarm Traps, since (a) it's the only thief skill that cannot be replaced by another class, (b) it's the only thief skill you won't know you need in advance (barring metaknowledge), making prebuffing with potions impractical, and (c) there is a penalty for failure, (don't find trap = trigger trap).
(Getting by with 60 in Open Locks is no problem at all, since you can try a lock and if you fail, throw on a ring or chug a potion and try again, and if you fail again just cast Knock.)
Fortunately, there's an item that gets Nalia to 100 Find Traps, which means she's all the thief you'll ever need. (I'd disagree with calling it "easily obtainable" early, as the Planar Sphere is one of the harder Chapter 2 quests and dangerous for an underpowered party as one of two that can actually leave you stuck and unable to leave.)
In the long run, the De'Arnise Signet Ring becomes a minor nuisance, (by ToB I'd much rather replace the AC bonus with something more useful), and always having to equip the Ring of Danger Sense is also a nuisance. If she and Imoen were regularly the same level, I'd take Imoen every time. But they're not, and I'd rather have two extra mage levels than two extra ring slots. Ergo, Nalia is the 2nd-strongest NPC in the game.
(I agree that I like her personality in SoA, by the way, but couldn't disagree more about her in ToB. I found the character shift abrupt and jarring, and the lack of banters or new content is a continuing disappointment. High marks as a concept, since she's apparently the only NPC who seriously reckons with her growing power, but low marks for execution. It's as if the developers said to themselves "nobody brings Nalia anyway, so they won't notice if we cut corners on her development".)
As for Planar Sphere quest, this is always one of the first things I do due to the good XP and items you can find there. I find it incredibly simple.
Lastly, the personality change to me is interesting. She just grows up. I like that she doesn't stay the same. In fact, what's even more fascinating is that she seems to actually talk down to NPC's like Aerie (who remains the same throughout) because Nalia now views herself as a power rather than the mere dreamer she was in SoA. She wants others to be more assertive in their struggle as well. As I said, the "apprentice" becomes the "master" (mistress?). She becomes a real leader.
Her epilogue shows her to remain a good person who will always be fighting for the welfare of others, which is nice because she stays true to herself. She doesn't let her Archmage power get to her head. However, I always wondered if it was a missed opportunity from a story-telling perspective to be able to "corrupt" Nalia with an evil charname who could convince her that amassing power was all that was needed. Just as Sarevok and Viconia can be redeemed, it would be interesting if one NPC could go the other way (kind of like Anomen, but more drastic). It could have stood as a moral lesson about absolute power corrupting absolutely.
As for the old Nalia VS Imoen thing, Imoen I can't stand. I took her in my first few parties when I first ever started playing the original BG1, but she quickly got on my nerves. I can't remember the last time she featured in a playthrough these last (nearly) two decades. in BG1, I usually have Montaron or dualed Shar-Teel for evil parties, while I grab Safana for good parties. In BG2, Nalia features in almost every party. She's just so incredibly useful. In fact, she's almost the opposite of Imoen in this regard - I can't remember the last time I DIDN'T have Nalia in a playthrough!
And like @Wandering_Ranger I cannot stand Imoen.
And if you do take Nalia as your second mage with Edwin, from a RP perspective, you get the feeling that she could cope with his BS and give him quite a run for the money. RP wise, it isn't just about powerplay, it's more that she would keep him in line.
I wish there was a way to revert the game to the original plot where Imoen is killed in Spellhold and see if it altered anything. Are there any notes or any outlines of what was meant to happen?
I think her personality is one of the more dynamic of all your NPCs. I really like all of the original cast, with the exception of Aerie, but even some of the cool characters like Keldorn, Cernd, and Valygar are fairly rigid-built. Nalia does travel, personality-wise, between SoA and ToB, but I don't think the transition is so jarring: her goodness and naivete in SoA always went hand-in-hand with an accidental sense of entitlement. Take away the naivete and add the fact that she becomes an unbelievably powerful Mage capable of sweeping aside entire armies - and then add the classic trope of Mages who become corrupted by power - and ToB provides a nice suggestion as to who Nalia could become.
I'm a bit of a spell hoarder sometimes too, and don't rest as much as other players I suspect. As such, Nalia's ability to use a bow often allows her to remain competitive on kills in the early game. Jan Jansen levels up a little too slowly for that utility to be dropped by the time you want to drop it. Anyway, they're still great characters and functional in their own right. Every character is.
I did mention Neera in passing. If she were on the list, she'd be second, pretty comfortably ahead of Nalia. If the old BG1-style Ring of Wizardry was in the game, she could even challenge Edwin for first. Nahal's is liquid cheese in spell form. (Obviously no-reload would drop her closer to the bottom, because a run with Neera is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're going to gate into the middle of the city and unleash on a genocidal rampage.)
Never understood this obsession people have with overhyping Neera (or wild mages in general).
The crazy-good is offset by the crazy-bad. If you're not playing a Hardcore game, then you can just use Power Word: Reload on the crazy-bad, leaving the crazy-good.
I've never played a wild mage (barely used Neera in BG1EE), but I respect the possibilities.
I also agree from running her a few times some of her talks almost seem like she is considering the possibility of power and a possible alignment shift. Would be great to see that happen with a mod with 'evil' CHARNAME's. Really would seem to fit her to have extra banters to follow through with her a bit more so she could end up going either way. Can't remember who it is, maybe some of Dorn conversatiions or Saervoks with her.
There is so much broken about this spell. Using Nahal's to put up Contingencies and Chain Contingencies with 100% success rate? Check. (It delays the wild surge until your next spell.) Chain-casting multiple Nahal's in a single round, (like Chain Contingency, it doesn't seem to use up your aura action, meaning it effectively always functions as if you have Improved Alacrity active)? Check.
Using Nahal's to cast Limited Wish and selecting the option that restored your lower-level spell slots, in the process restoring the Nahal's that you used to cast the Limited Wish? Check. Using Nahal's on your Simulacrums to cast level 9 spells, because they're essentially level-drained clones who no longer have all your spells memorized, but they still have all your spells in their book? Check.
Putting multiple Chaos Shields in a sequencer so the effects stack? Well... no check. But you used to be able to! Even without that, at high levels with Improved Chaos Shield active, Nahal's is a really solid bet. (On a low-level Wild Mage it's a death wish.)
IIRC if you're good aligned she makes it seem like she's only thinking about hypothetical situations in her banters with some of the more philosophical NPCs like Cernd, but if you're evil her dialogue makes it seem like she's actively thinking about turning against you.
Here, we see Nalia's far more assertive and dominant nature coming through. She walks all over Aerie. While there is nothing explicitly saying that she is evil, what is interesting is the fact that this is only the beginning of a potential turn towards "the darkness." She clearly now understands that if you want to make changes, POWER is what is needed. Her dreamy nature is completely gone. She now speaks with and from power.
Even more fascinating:
Here, Sarevok brilliantly points out that the reason she despises him is because she fears that she has the same traits as he does (dominance, power, forcefulness), but is simply denying them within herself. If you look at her behaviour, he is right and these are not just "mind games, " as she claims. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, after all.
Nalia is CG, which are characters who are not above doing what LG and NG would find morally deplorable. The ends justify the means. I saw an interesting shirt once which said "Chaotic Good: Doing the right thing even if it means I have to kill everyone." Sums it up rather well.
Chaotic characters of any alignment are difficult to pin down, and a Lawful Neutral individual, for example, would be much more "acceptable" in terms of social norms. Chaotic characters are rebels, revolutionaries, outsiders, and so on. Nalia has always felt that way with her family. It can sometimes just take one vile act to set them upon a dark path.
Nalia to me has always been such a conflicted character. She fits in neither with the nobility nor with the peasantry. The nobility shun her for being too kind towards the peasants, and the peasants shun her because she is a noble. She grew up hugely wealthy and exhibits bravery to try to help others (which of course, she doesn't need to do - she could just sit at home with her servants tending to her). What does she get in return for this? The peasants she tries to help jeer her as being "too idealistic" or they outright shun her for being a noble and don't care about her noble deeds or intentions. She doesn't truly understand them, they say. Who's to say that one day she may not snap and say "well, #### you all. I've risked my life for you people for nothing but your hatred in return. Time to really start showing you how "noble" I am!" From there, she could proceed to be a tyrant and rule with an iron fist over these folk.
Now, none of this happened, but the drastic change in her character shows that it COULD have happened. The seeds for it were there, which is why it was a missed opportunity to explore this "darker" side of her as an interesting character arc, to show that even the best-meaning people could go astray under certain circumstances, gathering of power, and so on.
There could have been two different endings for her, based on what choice she took during the game.
These are some of the reasons I have always liked Nalia and never understood why others didn't. She's just so interesting.
plus usually if I have nalia in my team I bring imoen along anyway, and then perhaps aerie as well, can't go wrong with 3 mages that can chain contingency an abi-dalzim's horrid wilting ( ah the lulz )
For the record, Elminster himself is only level 29 or so by 2nd edition standards. This makes Nalia one of the few NPCs self-aware enough to realize that she's in the position to potentially be more powerful (in terms of raw magical might, minus chosen bonuses) than one of strongest wizards in the world.
If anything Aerie is just being her naive self here.
How would YOU approach life if you had the power to nuke entire towns if their inhabitants pissed you off? Especially if you are someone with such strong emotions as Nalia. She obviously realizes can no longer afford to be outraged whenever she sees poor people being oppressed, for example.
Her approach alone makes it difficult for me to see her fall. All I see is Sarevok pointing out a universal dilemma among everyone with free will and a ton of power, unless you're somehow trying to argue that Nalia is supposed to be immune to temptation.
The fact that Nalia doubts and yet keeps her resolve is a good thing, in fact. It shows that she's likely NOT the type to keep believing that she's always doing what's best for everyone. It shows faith.
And I really don't expect someone like Sarevok to know what it's like to have faith in something even when you stop believing that what you do matters. In the context of the series (considering he had to die, be resurrected, and be convinced to find value in something else besides power aka alignment change) it took him forever to finally realize that his "pointless" love for Tamoko was worth something, for example.
Personally I see this kind of talk("Oh you can just carry 4 different rings/can just chug potions/can just cast Knock/etc.") as kind of baffling. Having to constantly juggle equips - annoying but okay, PoMT - that just clear waste of resources, but the moment you resign to Knock to open chests you might as well give up the argument.
I've always felt like she's just showing her true colours more once you get into ToB with the conversations of "I can kick over other peoples sand castles like I played at doing when we started but for the moment I don't." So she has dropped some of the games and subtle misdirections that she can't really hide behind anymore with her gained power as a mage and I've just never felt like I've seen as much change or really gotten as much out of Nalia in a romance compared to either Viconia or Aerie who both change quite dramatically over the course of their romances.
Even the conversations mentioned above strike me as little more than the realization that she can't play the contrarian and the "naïve do-gooder" any longer because she now is exactly what she was being contrary about in her own way. Sarevok's conversation I think points this out even more than the aerie one but the both hold up to it to some extent. Both suggest less that she's grown and more that she can't hide behind her outsider façade any longer.
But I accept that the way that I see Nalia is likely rather different from what many others are going to see. I also understand that many people aren't going to be annoyed by her like I get.
"The fact that Nalia doubts and yet keeps her resolve is a good thing, in fact. It shows that she's likely NOT the type to keep believing that she's always doing what's best for everyone. It shows faith. And I really don't expect someone like Sarevok to know what it's like to have faith in something even when you stop believing that what you do matters." Nalia never stopped believing in her cause. Doubting sometimes is not the same thing as abandoning your stance on something. Everyone has doubts. I can't see her (or anyone, really, unless you count those guys at the underground Temple who had forgotten why they were even there) fighting for a cause she stopped believing in. She's just too passionate a person, and would not be able to fake it for long (if at all).
All I see is Sarevok pointing out a universal dilemma among everyone with free will and a ton of power Then you're failing to see the psychology behind his astute claims. It's not a universal dilemma that he is talking about, it is her specifically. Even more accurately, it is her traits which he has noticed (easy to spot, since he has them too). The only difference between Sarevok and Nalia (CE and CG) is the fact that CE only cares for themselves, while CG cares for others. Both are willing to do almost anything for their goals. So what happens when CG (with such strong emotions as Nalia) feels spurned by those she tries to help? She could easily "snap" and maybe even say something like "My aunt was right about the lot of you! I have tried to help and all I have gotten is taunts in return for not being "understanding enough." Well, let's see how "understanding" I am now!" (turns CE, for example, and from that point on is out for herself). Again, this did not happen, but it is really bizarre to me that you can't see the SEEDS of potential for it are there. The Sarevok conversation, perhaps more than any other, alludes to this. But again, if you look at most of her conversations (especially in ToB) through this lens, you will start to get a different picture.
Nalia turned out to be good and never turned, I was just exploring a potentiality within her that could have made for a plausible story. All I am saying is to acknowledge that these things were there, and the conversations and her behaviour proves it beyond any reasonable doubt.
Imoen is found much later in the game, by which time Nalia has already surged ahead, so Nalia is far more practical if nothing else. The thread was pointing out the reasons why she is a viable character all the way through, and NOT some sort of "Imoen filler." It was also a response to all the Nalia hate over the years. Moreover, this thread is specifically geared towards showing that Nalia is not a bad thief at all, and "ring juggling" doesn't take place all that much (as you will have the Danger Sense ring equipped for traps 99% of the time). The others you may have to change situationally.
When I bring Imoen, which is most runs for RP and story, I always give her the STR bonus in Watcher's Keep for precisely this reason. It allows her to carry 70 lbs instead of 50 so she can actually wear the Aslyferund Elven Chain without being encumbered. There are more that enough strength enhancing items for all fighter types in my parties anyway so they don't benefit from the STR bonus.
I'm not sure why that matters, and why you seem to be implying that Nalia is supposed to be further down that line that someone like Aerie, with her newfound outrage and her apparent lack of appreciation about how dangerous her powers actually are.
I'm not sure why her being chaotic matters, that simply tells you that she doesn't put much faith in establishment - which is fine because I'm pretty sure the law doesn't have some special clause for walking instruments of mass destruction. Chaotic doesn't mean contrarian, it means individualist, and in this particular case that can be a very good thing because there's not a lot of precedent for how someone like Nalia should act. Elminster himself (and most of the archmages) prefer to just not be there.
In contrast, Lawful Good Aerie is in much more danger of falling if she ever finds herself opposing the law (and we KNOW just how nice the law is around potentially dangerous or - when it comes down to it- "different" people) and being forced to re-evaluate her beliefs. And the odds of that are pretty good if you leave her on her own. It IS a universal problem for anyone with free will and a ton of power - all of them will be to relate with what Sarevok is saying. Even if we go by the cliched alignment system, even a Lawful Good character with a ton of power is going to be looking for ways to use that power to affect the "best" change.
And what, do you suppose, is going to happen once they realize that the law, once it all comes down to it, does NOT particularly favor good over evil and vice versa? Kudos if they're more "lawful" than good, cue midlife crisis otherwise.
I do see the "seeds" you are referring to, I simply see them as irrelevant considering Nalia's character, outlook and behavior. A lot of drastic things would have to happen for her to turn evil and if you go down that rabbit hole you're going to end up pondering a lot of other equally improbable (but possible) what-ifs that are "...better left to aged sages".
In BG2, any pure or even multi-class Thief will gain levels so fast you'll be able to easily max out Find Traps, Open Locks, Pick Pockets, and almost anything else you want.
Imoen's Open Locks and Find Traps values are enough for the entire saga without relying on any PoMT or ring. The only possible exception to this is if you gave her elven chain which will lower her thieving skills.
As for "You get Imoen late and she's behind in levels": one, then don't get her late and rush Spellhold, and two, her being few levels behind doesn't matter jack.