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poison immunity problem [spoiler]

SorceromancerSorceromancer Member Posts: 4
in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
So, my fighter/druid, chosen because I liked Jaheira's abilities, but hated her mouth all those years ago, has been restarted and has finished BGEE.

I recently bought SoD and I am really enjoying it.

I chose the green dragonscale armor, imagining running around in a Dynaheir-minor-sequencer-generated web/ stinking cloud/ and maybe cloudkill area of effect with elan, due to a ring of free action and the poison immunity from the dragonscale armor.

My F/D ended up puking her guts out due to the stinking cloud part of the web/ stinking cloud.

This is disappointing. Is stinking cloud not actually poison-based, just described as poisonous? Does the armor's poison immunity not work?

I opened the save in EEKeeper,and noticed there are no "effects" assigned to her with the armor listed as a resource.

Is this a bug? Is there a work-around? I noticed there is no poison resistance in EEkeeper under the resistances tab, so I cannot assign 100% poison resistance there.

Any helpful ideas?

Thanks for your time.

S

Comments

  • SorceromancerSorceromancer Member Posts: 4
    I have done a bit more research, 100% poison resistance may only provide resistance to ongoing poison damage, and this problem may go back well in BG history. If this is true, the description on this armor and, Albruin, and maybe some other stuff, should be updated.

    Still, weirdly, even if the effect is not what I am looking for, no effect is listed in EEKeeper as being assigned to my character from an armor resource [the green dragon armor].

    It strikes me that the shield is better for use against poison, as it provides a substantial saving throw bonus versus poison.

    Anyway, thoughtful responses welcome.

    Thanks for your time,

    S
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    one thing I found odd about SoD is that the scrolls of poison resistance don't seem to work, the green dragon in SoD for example breaths poison and deals poison damage, so I thought; use the scrolls of protection from poison ( the green pictured ones) and everything should be fine, and when the dragon breathed on me, it still did normal damage with no resistance

    I think there might be a poison resistance bug in there somewhere
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    There's both resistance to poison (i.e. chance that a poison will entirely fail to affect you, regardless of passing or failing any saving throw - a similar mechanic to magic resistance) and also resistance to poison damage (i.e. reduced damage once you've been poisoned). Unfortunately, in-game descriptions are sometimes unclear about which type of resistance is intended, and just talk about "poison resistance" indiscriminately.

    In addition to this confusing conflation of two different resistances, I'm not convinced that it's working correctly, or at least that some things which are meant to confer "poison resistance" don't work (although some other poison protections do work).

    As well as the items mentioned by others above, I'll add that the "Periapt of Protection from Poison" in BG2ee doesn't work (and IIRC, never worked in original BG2 either).
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    @sarevok57 Same here. That was one of the first things I noticed about the dragon fight. I mean all the other scrolls work vs the various elements of the other dragons in the series.
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    I'd been wondering about this as I'm preparing to face the dragon in SoD. So this is good to know. It's goingto make my typical style that much harder it seems.
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    @hook71 - Is this something you guys in QA are aware of?
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    I remember @JuliusBorisov posting that they were aware that the green scroll does not protect against poison damage and considered this to be a bug (although there is an argument that this was originally intended behavior due to the dual nature of poison attacks as @Gallowglass lists above).
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  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    Immunity to effect:poison and immunity to posion-type damage are two different things. Unifying these immunities is trivial to do via code; but I have no idea if the devs wanted Pro Poison stuff to behave in different ways.
    Revisions mods streamline this (posion-immunity stuff grants both immunities).
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    I think it's obvious that the original developers of the game engine must have intended that the two different types of poison immunity would behave in different ways, else they'd never have gone to the trouble of creating two different effects.

    However, developing a game engine and developing each particular game running on that engine are not the same process, and commonly involve separate teams. Thus it's conceivable that the question of which (or both) of the "poison immunity" effects should be applied by various items and spells might subsequently have become rather confused during game development.

    Separately from that possible source of error, there's also the issue of whether the effects actually work as intended, and whether items allegedly conferring "poison immunity" actully invoke either of the relevant effects at all. For example, I've already pointed out that the "Periapt of Protection from Poison" doesn't seem to do anything (i.e. it applies neither of the available "poison immunity" effects).
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    I know it's been a while, but last time I checked the Periapt did have immunity to the poison opcode.
    subtledoctor said:

    Surely something like this would help:

    http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=25501&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

    Hey doesn't Camdawg like, work for you guys? :wink:

    Right, but you'll notice the poison immunity there also doesn't provide protection against stinking cloud or cloud kill either.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    edited June 2017
    CamDawg said:

    I know it's been a while, but last time I checked the Periapt did have immunity to the poison opcode.

    Perhaps, I wouldn't know, I'm just a player. Nevertheless, the Periapt doesn't actually seem to do anything.
    CamDawg said:

    subtledoctor said:

    Surely something like this would help:

    http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=25501&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

    Hey doesn't Camdawg like, work for you guys? :wink:

    Right, but you'll notice the poison immunity there also doesn't provide protection against stinking cloud or cloud kill either.
    I've looked at your post in that link, and can't see where it says that poison immunity doesn't work against Stinking Cloud or Cloudkill. Anyway, both of those spells are poison clouds (the save is a Save vs. Poison, the description is "toxic", etc.), so if poison immunity is working then it should protect against such spells.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,368
    Poison and Disease status's both deal Poison Damage. This is why items can only grant immunity to the Poison status, and not Poison Damage, unless they also grant immunity to the Disease status (or damage in general), without causing problems.

    IMO, the best way to handle things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud, would be to add a Poison Immunity SpellState, and precede the spells with a check against it.
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    kjeron said:


    IMO, the best way to handle things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud, would be to add a Poison Immunity SpellState, and precede the spells with a check against it.

    It's done (tnx to you actually). However I bought a new computer and still having some WIN10 issues with privileges (and I've lost access to G3 forums as well....grrrr) - a technician should be coming tomorrow to change that.
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    ^ that was a good read! I'm looking forward to your mod :)
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    edited June 2017
    According to @CamDawg over here:

    http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=25209&page=4

    EEs have the disease damage type implemented to work around the issue whereby disease and poison share the same damage type. In light of this, shouldn't the armor and periapt also grant protection from poison damage?
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,368
    AndreaColombo said:

    According to @CamDawg over here:

    http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=25209&page=4

    EEs have the disease damage type implemented to work around the issue whereby disease and poison share the same damage type. In light of this, shouldn't the armor and periapt also grant protection from poison damage?

    Disease still deals poison damage in the EE's.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Yeah, I got ahead of myself there--we discussed it as a possible solution, but it's not been implemented.
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,533
    @CamDawg is it still on the table that you know of, or was the thought put to rest?
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,758
    edited June 2017
    Grond0 said:

    I remember @JuliusBorisov posting that they were aware that the green scroll does not protect against poison damage and considered this to be a bug (although there is an argument that this was originally intended behavior due to the dual nature of poison attacks as @Gallowglass lists above).

    https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/22721
    https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/23455
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    It has always worked thus, and back in the days, only a select few items would provide immunity from poison damage AND poison status. All the items that affect either are said to give poison resistance, but from what I am aware, only the Ring of Gaxx and the Ring of VonGoethe (I know this isn't its name but I can't recall it. Antivenom ring perhaps?) provide you with poison damage immunity, while most other items that give immunity to poison actually only give immunity to the poison status, leaving the few instances where poison is dealt as damage without using the poison status unaffected. These would be, most notably, cloudkill, and now with SoD, the Green Dragon breath
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