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Soul Reaver +4 possibly the best 1vs1 weapon?

I don't know why this sword is so little talked about, as compared to Carsomyr or the Silver Sword for example. It's such a powerful sword!

Soul Reaver +4
"Each hit makes the target receive a cumulative 2 point penalty to their THAC0, lasting 20 rounds."

CUMULATIVE 2 point penalty! And for every successful hit, not even a percentage to hit! That means that if you were to land a hit on an enemy 10 times, that's a cumulative 20-points penalty.

Now, if you still have some doubts on the prowess of this weapon, let me illustrate for you through the following battle. I was just at the Suldanessellar and had to face off the black dragon. I sent in my MC, a fighter-thief, wielding a Carsomyr and Soul Reaver as its secondary weapon. I set a Time-stop trap and when the battle started, time stopped and I activated Greater Whirlwind Attack. I began with Carsomyr to dispel any defensive spells and switched straight to Soul Reaver. The rest was just watching Nizidramanii'yt scratched at the air :smiley:





And then I decided to take a breather as Nizidramanii'yt fanned the air around me with his talons.



And I had enough of his hot air and down he went :)





JuliusBorisovOrlonKronsteenSkatanGirewanAndreaColomboThacoBellsemiticgodAerakarMathsorcerer
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Comments

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 342
    Yeah, it's pretty freaking amazing. And IMO you get it at a perfect point in the game: not too early, not too late.
    johntylsemiticgod
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 373

    Aren't most things dead by the time you've landed 10 hits on them?

    Not for mini-bosses and bosses :wink:
    semiticgod
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,023
    And certainly not if you're playing LoB.
    GirewansemiticgodDreadKhan
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 1,776

    Aren't most things dead by the time you've landed 10 hits on them?

    and that's why soul reaver isn't such a great weapon. the thac0 drain would only pay off if some enemies had at least around 500 hp
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 373
    bob_veng said:

    Aren't most things dead by the time you've landed 10 hits on them?

    and that's why soul reaver isn't such a great weapon. the thac0 drain would only pay off if some enemies had at least around 500 hp
    The dragon I was battling with had around 300-400hp, but SCS enemies also imbibe potions of healing or cast healing spells, thus prolonging the battle.

    But I still don't understand the argument against it. Is it not better for the enemy to not hit you at all, as opposed to a slightly quicker battle but a higher damage intake? If you look at my fight with the black dragon, he was virtually not landing any hits at all. The damage I got was in fact from his summon insects spell.
  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 1,982
    edited June 1
    It's a bit of a restrictive weapon. Off the top of my head, the only party members who can wield it are Dorn, Korgan, Haer'Dalis, and Sarevok in ToB. (Fighter/Thief Yoshimo would be able to as well but obviously he's not alive to use it). If you don't have any of those guys and your main character isn't a two-handed sword wielding non-good warrior, it's impossible to actually make use of it.

    Edit: Yes, Carsomyr suffers from the same flaw to an even greater extent. I find that I rarely use either weapon not because they're bad but simply because no one can wield them.
    NoobaccasemiticgodQuartz
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 1,776
    johntyl said:

    But I still don't understand the argument against it. Is it not better for the enemy to not hit you at all, as opposed to a slightly quicker battle but a higher damage intake? If you look at my fight with the black dragon, he was virtually not landing any hits at all. The damage I got was in fact from his summon insects spell.

    it's great that he misses but the usable, effective duration of this benefit is short, because he's not gonna not land blows if he's dead already, and he's gonna be dead (even) faster with other more purely damage oriented weapons
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Yes, the Soul Reaver is a terrific weapon for bad guys with greatsword expertise. For Dorn (for example), it's probably his best weapon (better than the Silver Sword, except when you get a lucky vorpal hit) until you get Ir'revrykal ... and actually better than Ir'revrykal against some enemies.

    The reason we don't hear so much about it is probably simply that most players spend most of their time playing on the Good side, and the Soul Reaver is useless for Good characters.
    bob_veng said:

    it's great that he misses but the usable, effective duration of this benefit is short, because he's not gonna not land blows if he's dead already, and he's gonna be dead (even) faster with other more purely damage oriented weapons

    Maybe that's true for LoB difficulty where enemies take a great deal of hitting, but the effective duration is ample for other difficulty settings - two turns is enough time to kill anything, if the enemy is wasting his time on useless misses. I'm pretty sure that I've had numerous runs (on Core rules) in which no enemy, from Candlekeep to the Final Battle of ToB, has lasted for as long as two turns - mostly not even two rounds.

    The particular advantage of Soul Reaver is when enemies can hit your frontliners very hard and very fast, potentially killing you before you've had time to kill them ... whacking them with Soul Reaver slows their successful-hit rate, and that turns the fight in your favour for long enough that you can kill them first. Try it against a dragon - they're a soft target once they can no longer hit you reliably.
    ThacoBellAerakarbatoorPokota
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,023
    Although the OP had a party, the intention was to illustrate the advantages of the sword 1 vs 1. Without party members to help, there are a number of late-game enemies even on Core which can potentially last long enough against you for the THAC0 adjustment to be helpful. If playing LoB solo the sword could be even more useful.
    JuliusBorisovArctodussemiticgodBalrog99
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 840
    Soul Reaver into Blackrazor for Solo LoB (+ToB)! First make them miss - then let them suffer!! :D
    JuliusBorisovArctodusAerakar
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 1,983
    It's also worth noting that Soul Reaver isn't great against numerous enemies (where debuffing one of them isn't a big deal), and that becoming (temporarily) effectively immune to physical attacks isn't that hard in BG2. I'm certainly not saying it's a bad weapon, but I will argue that it's fairly niche.
    Quartz
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 88

    Aren't most things dead by the time you've landed 10 hits on them?

    The universal problem with weapons with on-hit effects.

    Well that and Stoneskins.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,058

    Aren't most things dead by the time you've landed 10 hits on them?

    The universal problem with weapons with on-hit effects.

    Well that and Stoneskins.
    Stoneskin may very well not stop the THAC0 penalty. It has a tendency to only stop the physical damage component of a hit, but not special effects; then again who knows this particular effect is coded...

    But yeah, the first problem remains and is an inherent weakness of non-damage effects. It really would have to be worth sacrificing the extra damage from whatever alternative weapon setup. Whether or not it IS worth it is ultimately up to the individual player. Way too many variables involved to make a useful blanket statement.
    Quartz
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 373


    The reason we don't hear so much about it is probably simply that most players spend most of their time playing on the Good side, and the Soul Reaver is useless for Good characters.

    Ahh, I see. I failed to notice that. It's hard to know what is restrictive or not when your fighter-thief can use any items :smiley:
    ThacoBellBalrog99
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 330
    As I recall there aren't too many swords that do more damage than it does. Though a few other weapons might. That come to mind immediately for me are Carsomyr, which is another niche weapon, and Gram the Sword of Grief which is only truly powerful against things taking the poison damage. Staff of the Ram might beat it as well... But there still isn't a whole lot.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,023
    @Myrag you might consider adding Foebane to your list - can be fun getting several hundred bonus HPs from the LMD effect.
    JuliusBorisovsemiticgod
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 103
    True @Grond0 you can probably consider LMD heal as it was weakening enemies which is what I focused on the list. Although only true if enemy is targeting wielder.

    But yes currently running my 6man custom LOB/SCS/Ascension trillogy and one is F/M planned for this setup. 400+ hp here I come :)
    JuliusBorisov
  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 373
    edited June 2
    Myrag said:

    True @Grond0 you can probably consider LMD heal as it was weakening enemies which is what I focused on the list. Although only true if enemy is targeting wielder.

    But yes currently running my 6man custom LOB/SCS/Ascension trillogy and one is F/M planned for this setup. 400+ hp here I come :)

    Foebane and Blackrazor dual wield? Doubly sick!

    But you will only get Foebane +5 late in the game. So what are your weapon choices in the interim?
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 103
    @johntyl not really IMO. You get only 2 OH attacks under Improved Haste and 6 Main Hand if you would go like this, using belm/sct/kundane in offhand means 8 attacks with main which would be foebane. I'll take that any day of the week :)

    As to choices mid game, for long swords there is plentiful of weapons, Daystar now hits as +4 as far as I understand and you get it at start of ch2.

    Other are Foebane +3 and few others are also available in WK from ch2 start. Foa+3 is available early in ch2. If you are stronger celestail fury is also ch2.
    johntylJuliusBorisov
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 103

    Myrag said:

    nunch of stuff

    Axe of Unyielding +5 - 10% chance of instakilling with no save

    And maybe the most OP weapon for F/T once HLA´s are available:

    The Chaos Blade from Haer'Dalis

    Dex-Drain will kill most enemies in just one round. Combine it with Time Stop Trap for even more fun...
    Ach true, completly forgot about chaos blade as I usually play custom party. Although I hate stat drains because they simplify the LOB too much. Archer with Simulacrum can drop pretty much anything in two rounds with called shot.

    And touche for AoU+5, great weapon. I like to switch between FOA and this for my DD.
    johntyl
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,031
    actually, I think the EE's have changed axe of the unyielding's vorpal hit to a -4 save vs death saving throw now, but it's still a penalty

    personally I like the silver sword with it's 25% chance of making the enemy save vs death at -2 or die, you would be amazed at who and how often the sword will one shot baddies
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    sarevok57 said:

    personally I like the silver sword with it's 25% chance of making the enemy save vs death at -2 or die, you would be amazed at who and how often the sword will one shot baddies

    Sometimes the Silver Sword can even be disappointingly quick to dispatch enemies!

    I distinctly remember one time when I carefully prepared (fully buffed up, etc.) for a battle with a dragon, then stepped forward and triggered the fight ... and the dragon died at the very first blow, failing its save against a vorpal hit. I felt rather let down - no satisfyingly heroic victory after an epic battle, it never even got its defences up, all that buffing felt rather wasted when it just fell dead in the first second of the fight!
    Grond0sarevok57Aerakar
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,031

    sarevok57 said:

    personally I like the silver sword with it's 25% chance of making the enemy save vs death at -2 or die, you would be amazed at who and how often the sword will one shot baddies

    Sometimes the Silver Sword can even be disappointingly quick to dispatch enemies!

    I distinctly remember one time when I carefully prepared (fully buffed up, etc.) for a battle with a dragon, then stepped forward and triggered the fight ... and the dragon died at the very first blow, failing its save against a vorpal hit. I felt rather let down - no satisfyingly heroic victory after an epic battle, it never even got its defences up, all that buffing felt rather wasted when it just fell dead in the first second of the fight!
    back in vanilla bg2, I used the silver sword to get another pair of boots of speed, because of that instant one hit knock out, it made it so much easier ( or at least possible :) )

  • johntyljohntyl Member Posts: 373

    sarevok57 said:

    personally I like the silver sword with it's 25% chance of making the enemy save vs death at -2 or die, you would be amazed at who and how often the sword will one shot baddies

    Sometimes the Silver Sword can even be disappointingly quick to dispatch enemies!

    I distinctly remember one time when I carefully prepared (fully buffed up, etc.) for a battle with a dragon, then stepped forward and triggered the fight ... and the dragon died at the very first blow, failing its save against a vorpal hit. I felt rather let down - no satisfyingly heroic victory after an epic battle, it never even got its defences up, all that buffing felt rather wasted when it just fell dead in the first second of the fight!
    Aren't mini-bosses and bosses immune to instant kill? Or is that just for SCS-modded games?
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    johntyl said:

    Aren't mini-bosses and bosses immune to instant kill? Or is that just for SCS-modded games?

    In unmodded, only a couple of major bosses are immune to vorpal hits; mini-bosses are generally not immune. In SCS, I know not.
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