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Buffing Drizzt

I know this was done a long time ago, and I bet this is a highly unpopular opinion, but seriously...

It was cool to fix all the cheese associated with killing Drizzt, but when you can't even take him down with legitimate tactics because he freaking heals himself, that's just ridiculous.

As if it weren't gratuitous enough for the original developers to put him in the game to begin with, yeah let's make him even more ridiculously overpowered.

I get that I don't have to kill him, and most runs I don't (thus me not complaining about this until today!), but if I have him almost dead and he just heals ... no. Just no. It's anti-fun -- and it's a video game, it's supposed to be fun.

I've taken to CTRL+Y-ing him now in applicable runs.

GG Beamdog.

Feel free to let me know how my opinion is objectively wrong.
CrevsDaak

Comments

  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 431
    edited June 3
    One of the reasons I'm able to deal with him is because of the gnolls, since he always targets them first and if I'm lucky I get a few knicks. It buys you a little time. If I have Dorn I can rely on absorb health interrupt his spellcasting. I usually do it with 2-3 melees and archers in the background though so I don't have another approach to it, reloading if it all goes bad. No idea how you deal with him on higher difficulties other than Core.

    But yeah I agree the heal is a bit much for a guy who's got near perfect defense against magical and physical attacks already.

    Heard people say you can solo him with a Dwarven Defender and so on though.

    You can always lure him into traps? I never do that with any enemy personally.
    Quartz
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,688
    batoor said:

    But yeah I agree the heal is a bit much for a guy who's got near perfect defense against magical and physical attacks already.

    Really well put.
    batoor said:

    Heard people say you can solo him with a Dwarven Defender and so on though.

    Yeah, people stack those class abilities and some godawful amount of potions that requires more metagaming knowledge than I have any taste for. Hahaha.
    batoor said:

    You can always lure him into traps? I never do that with any enemy personally.

    Yup, that's a good tactic. Thanks.
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 6,949
    edited June 3
    Don't/wouldn't you heal yourself when low on hp? The guy is a ~16th level ranger, presumably he has a few superior healing potions... just sayin'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    ThacoBellMirandel
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,688
    @subtledoctor See I saw this point coming which is why I said

    "if I have him almost dead and he just heals ... no. Just no. It's anti-fun -- and it's a video game, it's supposed to be fun."

    Realism
    Fun

    When it comes to games, sometimes these two concepts coincide perfectly, other times they're two very separate concepts.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 1,382
    Give one character a potion of speed and kite Drizzt round while the other members of the party shoot him. At low levels everyone will need criticals, but it still doesn't take long to kill him even if he does try to cure himself.

    If you do play on LoB, Drizzt is currently bugged and will make no attempt to attack in melee (though he may cast spells at you if you annoy him). That means you could just go and make a cup of tea while the gnolls kill him for you.
    CrevsDaakQuartzbatoorAerakar
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 6,949
    edited June 3
    Quartz said:

    Realism
    Fun

    When it comes to games, sometimes these two concepts coincide perfectly, other times they're two very separate concepts.

    It's not moralizing, and nothing to do with realism. I think it's more fun when the enemy AI is good and uses the kinds of tools I might use.

    Fun is the only thing that matters; and good challenges are fun. (EDIT - of course if you find Drizzt frustrating and not fun, then your opinion about that experience is perfectly valid. Different strokes for different folks.)
    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    QuartzAerakar
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 44
    Generally when people post on forums they invite community for a discussion. But this to me looks simply like a rant and a quite aggresive in my opinion. You didn't even allow people post their opinions by quickly neglecting them saying 'tell me why am I wrong'.

    While your opinion is not wrong, you are also not right either. I for one love the way drizzt is. What you described that isn't fun for you can be fun for others.

    For me the way I see it is that I'm a pleb who just got out of candlekeep for his first advanture and I had a chance to meet legendary swordsman of the sword coast. There is no way bunch of unskilled adventurers could take on foe like this. I like the fact that simple on hand combat isn't possible. I wouldn't complain that I can't take dragon on level one either. Just because one can hit something that doesn't matter you should be able to defeat it on any level with basic tactic.

    For me drizzt is lovely challenge and I like it the way he is now.
    ThacoBellMirandel
  • SouplesseSouplesse Member Posts: 49
    I never try to kill The guy! I often play a good guy in a good team! No way to kill him. When I play a bad guy, I have always a big or medium wise stat. Drizzt seems so powerful and so high level! I feel silly to attack him. And most of my parties are no reload runs...
    So never mind the fixes ;)
    NoonQuartzMirandel
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,688
    edited June 4
    @Grond0 Thanks for the tip. Really weird that Legacy of Bhaal has a glitch like that.

    @subtledoctor Well put!

    @Myrag You're right. Been on these forums too long and I've been flamed and told I'm objectively wrong one too many times I'm afraid -- always when I dare to actually start a thread of my own. Call it a grudge. Sorry to take it out on the folks who don't deserve it (yourself included).
    subtledoctorAerakar
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 2,900
    edited June 4
    its quite funny actually, drizzt is actually horribly bugged ( even without LoB mode) and I EASILY kill him at level 1 without breaking a sweat hehehe :) ah exploits, gotta love 'em

    plus he will only cast cure medium wounds once, so it's not like he casts it over and over again to be completely invincible
    Quartz
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 1,382
    Quartz said:

    Really weird that Legacy of Bhaal has a glitch like that.

    It's understandable actually. The game engine has a restriction that basic APR can't go above 5 (allowing you to get up to 10 APR in the game with haste effects). Drizzt had an existing APR of 4.5 and LoB gave all creatures an extra 1 - and the game can't handle the 5.5 result. I think the same thing happens with a few other enemies in BG2 as well. I would expect those bugs to be squashed when the next update comes out though ...
    Quartz
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 88

    Don't/wouldn't you heal yourself when low on hp? The guy is a ~16th level ranger, presumably he has a few superior healing potions... just sayin'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    What's good for the gander is good for the goose then? Give my 16th level Ranger 98% Magic resistance and 30% resistance to all damage types. Then Drizzt can have Superior Healing Potions... fair?

    I too don't understand why Drizzt was buffed. I can understand him casting Cure Light Wounds since he should have spell slots as a high level Ranger, but apparently now he instantly gets Mantle'd as soon as he enters combat? That doesn't make a lick of sense. The Gnolls never even had a chance to kill him either way. Nor does it matter if you want to kill him, since you can just wait it out. Just... why.
    Quartz
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 2,900

    Don't/wouldn't you heal yourself when low on hp? The guy is a ~16th level ranger, presumably he has a few superior healing potions... just sayin'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    What's good for the gander is good for the goose then? Give my 16th level Ranger 98% Magic resistance and 30% resistance to all damage types. Then Drizzt can have Superior Healing Potions... fair?

    I too don't understand why Drizzt was buffed. I can understand him casting Cure Light Wounds since he should have spell slots as a high level Ranger, but apparently now he instantly gets Mantle'd as soon as he enters combat? That doesn't make a lick of sense. The Gnolls never even had a chance to kill him either way. Nor does it matter if you want to kill him, since you can just wait it out. Just... why.
    gets mantled in combat? what mods are you using? because in my unmodded game he only casts armor of faith

    but to be honest, this thread is kind of ironic really, if the original vanilla bg1 drizzt were to combat the bgee drizzt, the bgee drizzt would get squashed like a bug, because the devs fixed drizzt's weird whackiness:

    in the original BG there was no such thing as dual wielding, so that caused some serious problems with drizzt, so what the original devs did, was give drizzt a "weapon" that forced your character to save vs death, or take an additional 30 damage ( or 60 on insane, ouch) plus his thac0 was ridiculous, somewhere around -9 to -16,

    but since the EE's came out and reintroduced dual weapon wielding the EE devs have fixed drizzt so now he is dual wielding properly and hit thac0 for his main hand is -4 while his offhand is -2, and he doesn't have that crazy save vs death or take 30 damage deal, he just deals the standard damage that he would for his STR/proficiency

    and to be honest, the little amount of spells that he casts aren't really all that much a problem, they are from the druid spell list, so its not like he is casting creeping doom or insect plague or anything like that, legitimately I believe I took down the 2.3 EE drizzt with a party that was around 55000 XP ( I had a berserker that was skilled with Morningstar and used berserk and a bunch of potions and what not) and I thnk I took him down in a couple of tries ( if even that many)

    so to be honest, he is weaker now ( power wise) then he used to be in the vanilla, he is just harder to exploit than in the vanilla that's all

    ThacoBellQuartzsubtledoctorAerakar
  • jobbyjobby Member Posts: 176
    @sarevok57 That's good to hear, does he still have the stupid AC (-14 i think?)
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 6,949

    Don't/wouldn't you heal yourself when low on hp? The guy is a ~16th level ranger, presumably he has a few superior healing potions... just sayin'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    What's good for the gander is good for the goose then? Give my 16th level Ranger 98% Magic resistance and 30% resistance to all damage types. Then Drizzt can have Superior Healing Potions... fair?
    These ridiculous games make it pretty easy to have high MR and moderate DR by 16th level (not to mention, more potions than you could even carry), so... yeah, fair.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 2,900
    jobby said:

    @sarevok57 That's good to hear, does he still have the stupid AC (-14 i think?)


    his AC is -16 ( base -10, -2 for his scimitar, and -4 for his dexterity)

    but he is also wearing chainmail and his armor modifiers apply, so he gains another -2 bonus to slashing weapons, but a +2 penalty to crushing weapons, so in hind sight his AC is:

    -16 vs piercing/missile weapons
    -18 vs slashing weapons
    -14 vs crushing weapons



    jobbyAerakar
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,311
    I don't really see why it matters. Drizzt only has a single healing spell and it only heals 14 HP. It effectively means that he has 14 extra HP (unless you interrupt the spell). And chances are, if you could do 92 damage to Drizzt, you could probably do 106 damage to him.
    sarevok57AerakarAstroBryGuy
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,688
    edited June 23
    @OlvynChuru I had no idea because I honestly rage-quit the second I saw him using it. In the past I've seen game developers implement such mechanics with no limitations (i.e. they can heal infinitely if you give them the time/don't interrupt them/whatever), so I assumed. Again, I'm unfairly jaded. Thanks for the info!

    @sarevok57 Crushing weapons are the key to everything, I swear. Everyone underestimates them. I've been known to make my PC paladins and fighters proficient with weapons people tend to hand to their cleric because of it. One of the strongest characters I made was a tanky paladin whom I handed the Stupifier +1.
    sarevok57
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 2,693
    Quartz said:

    @sarevok57 Crushing weapons are the key to everything, I swear. Everyone underestimates them. I've been known to make my PC paladins and fighters proficient with weapons people tend to hand to their cleric because of it. One of the strongest characters I made was a tanky paladin whom I handed the Stupifier +1.

    If it was before the 2.x patches, I'm not surprised. Stupefier was just stupidly OP. Any weapon with a 25% chance of stunning for 1d4 rounds on hit with no save would be phenomenal, even if it were an ostrich feather stuck in a sword hilt.

    The first time I found Stupefier (BGEE 1.x), it lasted about 2 combats before I ditched it because it made combat... boring. Stun enemy, move on to next while party finishes off helpless foe, rinse, repeat.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,688
    edited June 23
    @AstroBryGuy That's a good point. It'd be interesting to try and tackle BG1 with a self-imposed ruleset, something without Sleep, Stupefier, etc. I'm sure there's something on these forums, lol.

    EDIT: Errm, yes, right below me in fact.
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/65196/new-restrictions-new-challenges
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